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werothegreat

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Translations
« on: September 07, 2012, 10:39:32 am »
+2

Languages interest me very much.  So, while trying to find the German translations for the Dark Ages cards (for my own diversion), which don't seem to be published yet, I came across something I had seen before - the translations for the other cards.  Handelsposten (Trading Post) still makes me laugh hysterically.  But one thing I found curious was the translation for Ill-Gotten Gains: Blutzoll.  I tried putting this into a German/English dictionary, but it didn't come up.  So I tried de.wikipedia, but it sent me to a disambiguation page, and my German is not good enough to figure out what was said there.  Trying Wiktionary, no page came up, but what did come up was a search result for "death toll" - for which the German translation is "Blutzoll."  Turns out it's a compound word (which, if you're not aware, happens a hell of a lot in German).  The two compounds here are "Blut" (blood) and "Zoll" (toll).  So literally, the translation for Ill-Gotten Gains is "Blood Tax."  That's very disturbing.  Thanks, Germans.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 10:43:20 am »
+1

What's funny about Handelsposten?

Also, the German name of Loan is "Lohn", which doesn't mean Loan, but Wage. The publisher stated in the rulebook that they deliberately translated it that way because they thought it was more fitting.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 10:47:36 am by Watno »
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 10:46:52 am »
+2

What's funny about Handelsposten?

It's such a funny word to say!  Especially in a German accent.  HANDELSPOSTEN.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2012, 10:55:37 am »
+3

What's funny about Handelsposten?

It's such a funny word to say!  Especially in a German accent.  HANDELSPOSTEN.

This is also true of all words spoken in a German accent though...
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Re: Translations
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2012, 10:58:37 am »
0

This is also true of all words spoken in a German accent though...

I love hearing "Schadenfreude." That's a fun word!

And it could pass for a not-quite-literal translation of Torturer.
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Watno

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Re: Translations
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2012, 11:06:26 am »
0

Oh Torturer is "Kerkermeister", which translates to Jailor. I think the reasoning was that they didn't see torturing is an appropriate theme.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Translations
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2012, 11:25:37 am »
+14

Some Dutch translations are awful. "Familiar" was translated into "Oude Bekende" which means "Old acquaintance"...
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Re: Translations
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2012, 01:53:08 pm »
+2

Some Dutch translations are awful. "Familiar" was translated into "Oude Bekende" which means "Old acquaintance"...

I guess they were technically correct...
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2012, 02:04:40 pm »
+4

Someone got a bit too familiar with their Familiar.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2012, 02:34:26 pm »
+5

What's funny about Handelsposten?
Yeah, composers can't have blogs?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2012, 02:40:16 pm »
+3

Who here would play Dominion if all the names were re-translations of bad translations?  I know I would.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2012, 09:05:52 pm »
0

Also, the German name of Loan is "Lohn", which doesn't mean Loan, but Wage. The publisher stated in the rulebook that they deliberately translated it that way because they thought it was more fitting.
Arg! I have to think about this every time I see Loan on the board. And who believes they did it on purpose? It's definitely the worst translation of a card name in German.

Ill-Gotten Gains: Blutzoll.
I like the term IGG so much. "Blutzoll" has a completly different meaning, the one you already pointed out. But to be honest, I have no idea how to translate it better. As far as i know, a term like ill-gotten gains does not exist in German.

Turns out it's a compound word (which, if you're not aware, happens a hell of a lot in German).
True. German is not a nice language. Very hard to learn, too. The best thing of our language is the possibility to build infinite long compound words.
If you like this, you should have a look on this word: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbarbärbel.
The tranlation would be something like "Rhubarb Barbara(name) bar barbarian beard barber beer bar Bärbel(name)". :)

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Re: Translations
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2012, 02:41:45 am »
0

I think most translations are quite reasonable. I couldn't have come up with a better translation for IGG than Blutzoll, and the Loan-Lohn thing was done knowing that it's wrong, but it fit the picture, and "Kredit" feels far too modern to put on a Dominion card.

What annoys me most I think is the translation of Salvager. I mean, really? Müllverwerter??? Ok, Salvager CAN mean something like that, but this feels so wrong looking at the picture...
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2012, 09:47:48 am »
+1

I think most translations are quite reasonable. I couldn't have come up with a better translation for IGG than Blutzoll, and the Loan-Lohn thing was done knowing that it's wrong, but it fit the picture, and "Kredit" feels far too modern to put on a Dominion card.

What annoys me most I think is the translation of Salvager. I mean, really? Müllverwerter??? Ok, Salvager CAN mean something like that, but this feels so wrong looking at the picture...

...waste management company?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 11:49:14 am »
0

Pretty much, except it's not a company, but a person.

New Highlight: According to a BGG image, the German version of Dark Ages will be called "Darkages", which doesn't even resemble any german word.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2012, 01:11:29 am »
+3

Looking at French translations, I came across some fun ones:

Touche-a-tout (Jack of all Trades): Literally, a touch of everything.

Maquignons (Horse Traders): I find it hilarious that the French have a distinct, non-compound word for "Horse Dealer."  Apparently it can also mean a shady dealer.  This inspired me to look up a reason for this, and came across Wikipedia (of course): "Due to the difficulties in evaluating the merits of a horse offered for sale, the selling of horses offered great opportunities for dishonesty. It was expected that horse sellers would capitalize on these opportunities and so those who dealt in horses gained a reputation for shady business practices."  And "Reflecting this attitude, the term horse trading was widely adopted as a way to describe what might be seen as unethical business practices in a more positive light."  I think this is where we get the phrase "I've got to see a man about a horse."

Brocanteur (Junk Dealer): A second-hand goods dealer.  Man, these French are on a roll with these distinct root words.

Malfaiteurs (Band of Misfits): Literally "criminals."  I guess the French don't think very highly of those possessed of flexible talents.

Fou (Madman): Man, but these French are literal!

Chaudronnier (Coppersmith): Literally "boilermaker."  Wut.

Escroc (Swindler): Just a fun word to say!

Larbin (Minion): "Dogsbody" LOL

Phare (Lighthouse): Obviously derived from the Greek "pharos/φάρος."  A very pretty word.

Taudis (Shanty Town): "Hovel" or "pigsty."  Delightful.
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2012, 01:16:28 am »
+2

It might be cool to have these translation quirks put into the wiki.  An "in other languages" section or something.  Or perhaps just some context behind the meaning - Horse Traders obviously has more context than the buying and selling of hoofed mammals.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2012, 02:57:18 am »
+2

I think most translations are quite reasonable. I couldn't have come up with a better translation for IGG than Blutzoll, and the Loan-Lohn thing was done knowing that it's wrong, but it fit the picture, and "Kredit" feels far too modern to put on a Dominion card.

What annoys me most I think is the translation of Salvager. I mean, really? Müllverwerter??? Ok, Salvager CAN mean something like that, but this feels so wrong looking at the picture...

My translation for IGG would be "Schwarzgeld" or "Judaslohn" or "unrecht' Gut". Blutzoll is just wrong.

I can't think of a German word for "Familiar", didn't know before long that there is a word for "animal companion". My stab at Familiar would have been "Gefährte".

"Lohn" fits the picture, I have no qualms with that.

What I like about the German version is that all upgrading-type cards (expressed in verbs in English) end in "-bau". Wonder how long they'll keep that up. I think they will bend in on "Procession", but Überbau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and_superstructure) would be a nice, if liberal, translation. A real blunder is the Dutch translation to "Remake", which is something like "Version 2.0". It should obviously have been translated with a verb.

A more literal translation to "JoaT" would be "Hans Dampf in allen Gassen" (Hans Steam in all alleys), "Lebenskünstler" (bohemien, bon vivant) fits the picture though.

"Minion" would have been better translated with "Günstling" or "Hofschranze". "Lakai" is closer to "Lackey" in meaning.

Oh yes, and "Dark Ages" should have been "Finstre Zeiten" (bracing for a cease and decist by Friedemann Friese) or "Harte Zeiten" ("hard times").

"Kerkermeister" does its job with the picture and gives a good cue to an old Erste Allgemeine Verunsicherung song.

I can't really think of a good translation to "Salvager", maybe "Bergung". ("Berger" would sound too much like a surname, there is no tradition of having verbs as card titles in the German version so "bergen" doesn't fit, and "Schatztaucher" next to "Perlentaucher" would be too bland.)

"Pferdehändler" has similar connotations as "Horse Traders". You can even insult a used car salesman calling him "Pferdehändler" or "Teppichhändler".
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 03:07:51 am by ipofanes »
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ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2012, 03:12:42 am »
0

Chaudronnier (Coppersmith): Literally "boilermaker."  Wut.

When I think of a coppersmith, I would not expect somebody making coins but rather making roof tiles or cauldrons. Maybe someone in demand of copper, thus driving up the price of it?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2012, 04:08:23 am »
+1

A real blunder is the Dutch translation to "Remake", which is something like "Version 2.0". It should obviously have been translated with a verb.

Another huge blunder is Forge: translated as Vervalsen which is a verb that translates into forge, but in the sense of "making fake copies of something", like forging paintings, diamonds or ID's. While the art and card mechanic clearly suggest that Forge is meant as "melting furnace", so Smeltoven would have been better. I ran into Forge on Iso before IRL, and it befuddled me completely, I really had to think deeply about which card I was staring at...:)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2012, 04:23:31 am »
0

The bad thing about the Swedish edition is that there's a typo on the Duchy card. It says "Hertigöme" instead of "Hertigdöme".

Is it the same with other translated editions that the inlay isn't changed, so the cards are not in alphabetical order but in the same order as in the English edition?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2012, 04:48:29 am »
+1

The bad thing about the Swedish edition is that there's a typo on the Duchy card. It says "Hertigöme" instead of "Hertigdöme".

Ah, I was wondering what the isotropic name meant.

Quote
Is it the same with other translated editions that the inlay isn't changed, so the cards are not in alphabetical order but in the same order as in the English edition?

Not in the German edition, where the order is price - (German) name by alphabet.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2012, 04:51:39 am »
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Another huge blunder is Forge: translated as Vervalsen which is a verb that translates into forge, but in the sense of "making fake copies of something", like forging paintings, diamonds or ID's. While the art and card mechanic clearly suggest that Forge is meant as "melting furnace", so Smeltoven would have been better. I ran into Forge on Iso before IRL, and it befuddled me completely, I really had to think deeply about which card I was staring at...:)

Whew. Obviously the translators didn't get to look at the cards, the card texts, let alone to play the game.

The German translation reads "Kunstschmiede", mainly because "Schmiede" was already taken for "Smithy"; but "Schmelze" would have been more fitting.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2012, 06:37:42 am »
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Yes, french translations are sometimes weird.

"Ill-Gotten gains" is translated "Argent noir" ("black money").
"Jack of all trades" is really an untranslatable word. "Touche à tout" is not bad, but I would just have called it "Jack" ^^
"Death cart" is another problem to translate. It is translated "charette de cadavre", I've never heard this term...

There are also long and painful words to say : "Diseuse de bonne aventure" (fortune teller), "Hôtel de la monnaie" (Mint) ...

Oh, and "Urchin" = Orphelin (Orphan). Is it really a correct translation ?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2012, 07:02:15 am »
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Yes, french translations are sometimes weird.

"Ill-Gotten gains" is translated "Argent noir" ("black money").
"Jack of all trades" is really an untranslatable word. "Touche à tout" is not bad, but I would just have called it "Jack" ^^

Well, my suggestion for the German Translation was "Schwarzgeld", which has literally the same meaning. Don't know about the connotations in French though.

Look at my remarks to "Jack of all Trades" and my re-translation attempts of "Lebenskünstler" into English and you will see that I actually used French words, but I think Touche à tout sounds great.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 07:03:16 am by ipofanes »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2012, 08:13:09 am »
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Oh, and "Urchin" = Orphelin (Orphan). Is it really a correct translation ?

Yes, one of them. Urchin originally meant hedgehog, and for a long time meant any person who looked or acted like a hedgehog. There's a long list from a couple sources: "hunchbacks, goblins, bad girls, poorly or raggedly clothed youngster, street children, elves or fairies with a prickly appearance"
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Re: Translations
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2012, 08:57:09 am »
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Maquignons (Horse Traders): I find it hilarious that the French have a distinct, non-compound word for "Horse Dealer."  Apparently it can also mean a shady dealer.  This inspired me to look up a reason for this, and came across Wikipedia (of course): "Due to the difficulties in evaluating the merits of a horse offered for sale, the selling of horses offered great opportunities for dishonesty. It was expected that horse sellers would capitalize on these opportunities and so those who dealt in horses gained a reputation for shady business practices."  And "Reflecting this attitude, the term horse trading was widely adopted as a way to describe what might be seen as unethical business practices in a more positive light."  I think this is where we get the phrase "I've got to see a man about a horse."

Sounds like this term could have also been used for Swindler or Mountebank.
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2012, 09:58:49 am »
+1

Maquignons (Horse Traders): I find it hilarious that the French have a distinct, non-compound word for "Horse Dealer."  Apparently it can also mean a shady dealer.  This inspired me to look up a reason for this, and came across Wikipedia (of course): "Due to the difficulties in evaluating the merits of a horse offered for sale, the selling of horses offered great opportunities for dishonesty. It was expected that horse sellers would capitalize on these opportunities and so those who dealt in horses gained a reputation for shady business practices."  And "Reflecting this attitude, the term horse trading was widely adopted as a way to describe what might be seen as unethical business practices in a more positive light."  I think this is where we get the phrase "I've got to see a man about a horse."

Sounds like this term could have also been used for Swindler or Mountebank.

I'm glad they saved it for the card actually called "Horse Traders."
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Re: Translations
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2012, 10:29:48 am »
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I think most translations are quite reasonable. I couldn't have come up with a better translation for IGG than Blutzoll, and the Loan-Lohn thing was done knowing that it's wrong, but it fit the picture, and "Kredit" feels far too modern to put on a Dominion card.

What annoys me most I think is the translation of Salvager. I mean, really? Müllverwerter??? Ok, Salvager CAN mean something like that, but this feels so wrong looking at the picture...

My translation for IGG would be "Schwarzgeld" or "Judaslohn" or "unrecht' Gut". Blutzoll is just wrong.

I can't think of a German word for "Familiar", didn't know before long that there is a word for "animal companion". My stab at Familiar would have been "Gefährte".

"Lohn" fits the picture, I have no qualms with that.

What I like about the German version is that all upgrading-type cards (expressed in verbs in English) end in "-bau". Wonder how long they'll keep that up. I think they will bend in on "Procession", but Überbau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and_superstructure) would be a nice, if liberal, translation. A real blunder is the Dutch translation to "Remake", which is something like "Version 2.0". It should obviously have been translated with a verb.

A more literal translation to "JoaT" would be "Hans Dampf in allen Gassen" (Hans Steam in all alleys), "Lebenskünstler" (bohemien, bon vivant) fits the picture though.

"Minion" would have been better translated with "Günstling" or "Hofschranze". "Lakai" is closer to "Lackey" in meaning.

Oh yes, and "Dark Ages" should have been "Finstre Zeiten" (bracing for a cease and decist by Friedemann Friese) or "Harte Zeiten" ("hard times").

"Kerkermeister" does its job with the picture and gives a good cue to an old Erste Allgemeine Verunsicherung song.


I really love your "Kerkermeister" reference to the relative unknown song of EAV dating back to 1986. such a great text.

Jack of all trades could also be translated as "Tausendsassa". The guys that love Handelsposten should like this word to.

"Judaslohn" is just a great translation of ill-gotten-gains. Very well fitting. I would have loved to see this on the actual cardboard.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 10:31:29 am by loppo »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2012, 01:54:44 pm »
0

The biggest problem of Polish translation of Dominion is that only Base, Intrigue and Cornucopia were done. At some point I'll probably have to translate the other cards, as my girlfriend liked the game, but doesn't speak English well, so with no translation there's no much room to expand our games beyond Base and Intrigue I bought recently. Jack of All Trades will definitely be hard to do. And Duchess, due to the way Duchy and Duke got translated - there's no word fitting to Duchess which would go in line with the two previous translations.

Looking through the cards from other expansions, I have one question about English "translation" of the game. Does anyone know why is Hamlet called Hamlet? I can't see the name having anything in common with card text, the picture also doesn't help.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2012, 02:00:32 pm »
+1

The biggest problem of Polish translation of Dominion is that only Base, Intrigue and Cornucopia were done. At some point I'll probably have to translate the other cards, as my girlfriend liked the game, but doesn't speak English well, so with no translation there's no much room to expand our games beyond Base and Intrigue I bought recently. Jack of All Trades will definitely be hard to do. And Duchess, due to the way Duchy and Duke got translated - there's no word fitting to Duchess which would go in line with the two previous translations.

Looking through the cards from other expansions, I have one question about English "translation" of the game. Does anyone know why is Hamlet called Hamlet? I can't see the name having anything in common with card text, the picture also doesn't help.

A Hamlet is a small Village.  How did you translate Duke and Duchy?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2012, 02:22:51 pm »
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Thanks, you just learned me a new English word :) The only thing that came to my mind when I read Hamlet was the Shakespeare's play. Now it makes sense.

Duchy and Duke are in Polish translation "Powiat" and "Starosta". Powiat is the name of the middle step of administrative division of Poland and the name was used since XIVth century. Starosta was its head, responsible for fiscal duties, courts etc. So the names are quite good. But if you want to translate Duchess to be in line with this, you should use "Starościna", but the word is an extreme archaism. If I was to translate Duchy and Duke (and knew I have Duchess coming a bit later), I would go for Hrabstwo, Hrabia, Hrabina - even though it's rather County, Count and Countess - we never had counts in Poland, but all three words are still alive in Polish language.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2012, 02:29:18 pm »
+2

Thanks, you just learned me a new English word :) The only thing that came to my mind when I read Hamlet was the Shakespeare's play. Now it makes sense.

Duchy and Duke are in Polish translation "Powiat" and "Starosta". Powiat is the name of the middle step of administrative division of Poland and the name was used since XIVth century. Starosta was its head, responsible for fiscal duties, courts etc. So the names are quite good. But if you want to translate Duchess to be in line with this, you should use "Starościna", but the word is an extreme archaism. If I was to translate Duchy and Duke (and knew I have Duchess coming a bit later), I would go for Hrabstwo, Hrabia, Hrabina - even though it's rather County, Count and Countess - we never had counts in Poland, but all three words are still alive in Polish language.

Archaisms are fine - it's meant to be from an archaic period anyway.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2012, 05:23:59 pm »
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Thanks, you just learned me a new English word :) The only thing that came to my mind when I read Hamlet was the Shakespeare's play. Now it makes sense.

Duchy and Duke are in Polish translation "Powiat" and "Starosta". Powiat is the name of the middle step of administrative division of Poland and the name was used since XIVth century. Starosta was its head, responsible for fiscal duties, courts etc. So the names are quite good. But if you want to translate Duchess to be in line with this, you should use "Starościna", but the word is an extreme archaism. If I was to translate Duchy and Duke (and knew I have Duchess coming a bit later), I would go for Hrabstwo, Hrabia, Hrabina - even though it's rather County, Count and Countess - we never had counts in Poland, but all three words are still alive in Polish language.

Archaisms are fine - it's meant to be from an archaic period anyway.
And I just learned a new English word.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2012, 05:26:59 pm »
+2

Fou (Madman): Man, but these French are literal!
I can just imagine the crazy guy wandering through the woods. Really, I pity le Fou.

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Escroc (Swindler): Just a fun word to say!
Is this related to the English word Escrow? Because now I'm worried that I'm asking Swindlers to hold onto my money. (And Google tells me that no, they're false cognates, although I can't find anything saying that they don't have the same origins.)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2012, 04:20:22 am »
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Thanks, you just learned me a new English word :) The only thing that came to my mind when I read Hamlet was the Shakespeare's play. Now it makes sense.

Duchy and Duke are in Polish translation "Powiat" and "Starosta". Powiat is the name of the middle step of administrative division of Poland and the name was used since XIVth century. Starosta was its head, responsible for fiscal duties, courts etc. So the names are quite good. But if you want to translate Duchess to be in line with this, you should use "Starościna", but the word is an extreme archaism. If I was to translate Duchy and Duke (and knew I have Duchess coming a bit later), I would go for Hrabstwo, Hrabia, Hrabina - even though it's rather County, Count and Countess - we never had counts in Poland, but all three words are still alive in Polish language.

Starosta sounds like "aged man" to my oblivious-to-Polish ears. There's an obvious guess as to why the female version isn't quite as popular.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2012, 04:28:10 am »
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I really love your "Kerkermeister" reference to the relative unknown song of EAV dating back to 1986. such a great text.

Definitely the best song from one of the few EAV records gaining popularity in Germany. Never hummed to yourself "I'm sitting on a bunk, training a roley-poley" while unleashing your chain of Kerkermeisters?


Quote
Jack of all trades could also be translated as "Tausendsassa". The guys that love Handelsposten should like this word to.

"Judaslohn" is just a great translation of ill-gotten-gains. Very well fitting. I would have loved to see this on the actual cardboard.

"Tausendsassa" is great. While there are clerical figures on Dominion cards, and Bishop is specifically Christian, my feel is that directly biblical allusions wouldn't fly. So, yes, "Judaslohn" is fitting as a translation, but I would have been surprised to see this word on a Dominion card.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2012, 04:56:10 pm »
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If I was to translate Duchy and Duke (and knew I have Duchess coming a bit later), I would go for Hrabstwo, Hrabia, Hrabina - even though it's rather County, Count and Countess - we never had counts in Poland, but all three words are still alive in Polish language.

But we do have a Count in Dark Ages. So you would need a new word for this.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2012, 05:14:16 pm »
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But we do have a Count in Dark Ages. So you would need a new word for this.
Uh oh, just found this out from Count/Duke combo thread. Will have to think about this.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2012, 12:05:23 am »
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So uh... how do you translate Feodum? Since it's not a word in English, it must be difficult.

I suppose you could keep the Latin word in all the translations, and everyone will be as mystified in other languages as us English-speakers were  :P. One convoluted option would be translate it into the local old-school language, e.g. Old Church Slavonic for Eastern European languages.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2012, 12:47:57 am »
+1

So uh... how do you translate Feodum? Since it's not a word in English, it must be difficult.

I suppose you could keep the Latin word in all the translations, and everyone will be as mystified in other languages as us English-speakers were  :P. One convoluted option would be translate it into the local old-school language, e.g. Old Church Slavonic for Eastern European languages.

French just calls it "Fief."
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Re: Translations
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2012, 02:14:33 am »
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So uh... how do you translate Feodum? Since it's not a word in English, it must be difficult.

I suppose you could keep the Latin word in all the translations, and everyone will be as mystified in other languages as us English-speakers were  :P. One convoluted option would be translate it into the local old-school language, e.g. Old Church Slavonic for Eastern European languages.

in german it is "Lehen", which is a very old word. I guess in cultures that had a feudal system a couple of centuries ago, there is a word for it ("Fief", "Lehen",...)cultures without a former feudal system might it find difficult.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2012, 03:08:17 am »
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I'd prefer "Lehnsgut" which is the actual piece of land, not the title. The German translation of "Estate" also refers rather to the physical object than the title.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2012, 04:27:37 am »
+1

I would like to defend some of the German translations that have been criticized because I think that they capture the essence of the cards better than the English original. These are mainly:

Ill Gotten Gains -> Blutzoll: It fits perfectly with the card's mechanic that you gain dirty/bloody money and it takes a toll on your opponents (curse). I definitely like it alot more than "Schwarzgeld" although that might be the more literal translation. I would be ok with "Judaslohn" but it's not really doable for obvious reasons.

Forge -> Kunstschmiede: It captures the essence of the card perfectly. It really is a delicate art to put together all the right "ingredients" (low cost cards), add up their cost and forge something better out of them. And if you make one small error it all goes to waste. Also the girl in the art looks like she's either putting a gem in the sword handle or maybe engraving some sort of text in the sword which for me fits very well.

Hunting Party -> Treibjagd: This hasn't been mentioned yet i think, but the literal translation would have been "Jagdgesellschaft". I like "Treibjagd" much more because again it fits with the card's mechanic as the digging for a card that you don't have in hand feels like a chase.


Here are some that I don't like very much:

Farmland -> Fruchtbares Land: Should have been "Ackerland" in my opinion.

Walled Village -> Carcassonne: Yeah, I get that this is the promo for Carcassonne, but still it should have been "Fort" or something.

Familiar -> Vertrauter: This is the literal translation but it really makes no sense that a "Vertrauter" would be someone bad who hands out curses. I'm at a loss regarding a better translation though. From the image he looks like an undead/ghost or something.

Venture -> Abenteuer: Although it is a possible literal translation this is really missing any resemblance to the intended meaning of "risky investment". Translated back to English it would be "adventure" which quite obviously is inappropriate. Something along the lines of "Wagnis" or "Spekulation" might be better, but I'm still not really happy with those.


Also I agree with ipofanes on "Lehnsgut". I really hope they used that. Well, I'll find out in a few hours when I unwrap my Dark Ages box.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 04:53:11 am by PitzerMike »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2012, 07:29:36 am »
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I would like to defend some of the German translations that have been criticized because I think that they capture the essence of the cards better than the English original. These are mainly:

Ill Gotten Gains -> Blutzoll: It fits perfectly with the card's mechanic that you gain dirty/bloody money and it takes a toll on your opponents (curse). I definitely like it alot more than "Schwarzgeld" although that might be the more literal translation. I would be ok with "Judaslohn" but it's not really doable for obvious reasons.
I can see your point here. "Schwarzgeld" sounds too much like a modern word. But then so does "Trickser".


Quote
Forge -> Kunstschmiede: It captures the essence of the card perfectly. It really is a delicate art to put together all the right "ingredients" (low cost cards), add up their cost and forge something better out of them. And if you make one small error it all goes to waste. Also the girl in the art looks like she's either putting a gem in the sword handle or maybe engraving some sort of text in the sword which for me fits very well.
I'm definitely with you here. Using the Forge takes some sense of precision and attention to details (like "have I played a Highway before?  ;D).


Quote
Hunting Party -> Treibjagd: This hasn't been mentioned yet i think, but the literal translation would have been "Jagdgesellschaft". I like "Treibjagd" much more because again it fits with the card's mechanic as the digging for a card that you don't have in hand feels like a chase.
Yes, I was glad when I read that German translation.

Quote
Here are some that I don't like very much:

Venture -> Abenteuer: Although it is a possible literal translation this is really missing any resemblance to the intended meaning of "risky investment". Translated back to English it would be "adventure" which quite obviously is inappropriate. Something along the lines of "Wagnis" or "Spekulation" might be better, but I'm still not really happy with those.
Yes, but it fits the picture where the bored King is about to receive an engaging (or not) story.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 07:31:58 am by ipofanes »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2012, 08:16:07 am »
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Quote
Venture -> Abenteuer: Although it is a possible literal translation this is really missing any resemblance to the intended meaning of "risky investment". Translated back to English it would be "adventure" which quite obviously is inappropriate. Something along the lines of "Wagnis" or "Spekulation" might be better, but I'm still not really happy with those.
Yes, but it fits the picture where the bored King is about to receive an engaging (or not) story.

Well, maybe I misinterpreted the card, and the intended meaning is indeed adventure. I've never been quite sure about the card art. But since ist's a treasure card I've always been assuming it was venture in the sense of "risky investment". Like trading in stocks but something more medieval - maybe betting money on a tournament contender. :)

Yeah I also don't like "Trickser" like you mentioned.

Overall I'm quite happy with the German translation (ie I've seen much worse).

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Re: Translations
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2012, 09:02:38 am »
+1

A Familiar, in folklore, is a magic-user's (typically a witch's) animal companion.  This is more than just a pet - the witch is supposed to be able to communicate with the familiar, and send it off to do stuff.  If you've ever seen Bedknobs and Broomsticks, the cat is supposed to be a familiar, but since Eglantine fails at formal witchery, the cat just ends up being a lazy bum.  How would you translate "magic-user's animal companion" into German?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2012, 09:07:44 am »
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A Familiar, in folklore, is a magic-user's (typically a witch's) animal companion.  This is more than just a pet - the witch is supposed to be able to communicate with the familiar, and send it off to do stuff.  If you've ever seen Bedknobs and Broomsticks, the cat is supposed to be a familiar, but since Eglantine fails at formal witchery, the cat just ends up being a lazy bum.  How would you translate "magic-user's animal companion" into German?
And would the German word be different if it had to include that notion of "ally/helper" in the sense of "team mate"?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2012, 09:17:01 am »
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There's no translation for that without double meaning. But Familiar has double meaning too, so "Vertrauter" isn't that bad in my opinion.
Alternatives would be "Begleiter/Gefährte" (Companion/Associate) or more freely translated "Knecht" (Servant/Minion). I wouldn't put "Tier" (Animal) in the title.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2012, 09:39:02 am »
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Oh, I see. Well in the context of shamanism it could be "Tiergeist" which means animal spirit/ghost. (like what the Maya believed in)
If we're talking an actual living animal companion, then what Qvist said. "Tierischer Begleiter" could work. But on the art it looks more like a ghost.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2012, 10:37:48 am »
+1

From what I can tell (and feel free to correct me, Germanophones), Vertrauter means "confidant," which wouldn't really give the correct connotation.  I'd think Knecht or Tierknecht would be better.  But that still doesn't give the connotation of a magical connection.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2012, 11:45:30 am »
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From what I can tell (and feel free to correct me, Germanophones), Vertrauter means "confidant," which wouldn't really give the correct connotation.  I'd think Knecht or Tierknecht would be better.  But that still doesn't give the connotation of a magical connection.

I didn't know the term "confidant" until know, but from what the translators give me it seems to describe humans.  I'm pretty sure that there is (or I have read) a German term for "Familiar", certainly there are lots of Fantasy-translators that have faced this problem. Pretty sure in "Das Schwarze Auge" the Famililars of witches are called "Vertraute", and the google tells me
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Re: Translations
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2012, 01:45:17 pm »
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Yeah, I guess Vertrauter is ok. The issue was the double meaning of the term and I didn't know the second meaning (animal companion).
The primary meaning is like wero suggested "confidant" or basically any person you know well and that you trust.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2012, 10:18:04 pm »
+1

Are there any Russian translations?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2012, 08:09:30 am »
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I didn't know the term "confidant" until know, but from what the translators give me it seems to describe humans.  I'm pretty sure that there is (or I have read) a German term for "Familiar", certainly there are lots of Fantasy-translators that have faced this problem. Pretty sure in "Das Schwarze Auge" the Famililars of witches are called "Vertraute", and the google tells me
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Ritualmagie:    Hexenflüche, Hexensalbe, Vertrautenmagie

"Das Schwarze Auge" ist authoritative in that is a genuine German roleplay module and not some underpaid-translator-generated shit. Yet I haven't really encountered the term in German, even when it fits (Rabe Abraxas in Ottfried Preußler's Die Kleine Hexe for instance). I would have to check if the term occurs in the German dubbed version of Catweazle (the toad's Geman name is Kühlwalda, by the way).
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Re: Translations
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2012, 08:48:56 pm »
+1

I looked at the Japanese translations; most of them seemed pretty good to me.

Minion is "choushin", which is something like "beloved retainer" -- but other than that they were normal, accurate translations.  That's no fun :)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2012, 08:57:34 pm »
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Us swedes only got Base translated. Most of it is pretty good, except Hertigdöme (Duchy) is missing a letter on the card, so it says Hertigöme. Spy's rule text says every player gets to decide if they want to keep the card or discard it. And Smithy was translated to Smed, which is (black)smith.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2012, 09:11:09 pm »
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Quote
Quote from: werothegreat on September 07, 2012, 10:39:32 am
Ill-Gotten Gains: Blutzoll.
I like the term IGG so much. "Blutzoll" has a completly different meaning, the one you already pointed out. But to be honest, I have no idea how to translate it better. As far as i know, a term like ill-gotten gains does not exist in German.
Umehrlich-verdienten-verdienst?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2012, 02:04:00 am »
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Quote
Quote from: werothegreat on September 07, 2012, 10:39:32 am
Ill-Gotten Gains: Blutzoll.
I like the term IGG so much. "Blutzoll" has a completly different meaning, the one you already pointed out. But to be honest, I have no idea how to translate it better. As far as i know, a term like ill-gotten gains does not exist in German.
Umehrlich-verdienten-verdienst?
'
Unehrlich verdienter Verdienst.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2012, 03:22:56 am »
0

Quote
Quote from: werothegreat on September 07, 2012, 10:39:32 am
Ill-Gotten Gains: Blutzoll.
I like the term IGG so much. "Blutzoll" has a completly different meaning, the one you already pointed out. But to be honest, I have no idea how to translate it better. As far as i know, a term like ill-gotten gains does not exist in German.
Umehrlich-verdienten-verdienst?
'
Unehrlich verdienter Verdienst.

My suggestion "Judaslohn" (30 silver coins) only refers to gains acquired by treason, "Schwarzgeld" (black money) has the connotation of shady transfer, in the context of tax-evasion and money-laundering. I'd say both terms are close enough to "ill-gotten gains".
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Volkmar

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Re: Translations
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2012, 04:40:49 am »
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The Dutch version of Urchin is translated as +1 Card, +1 Buy. Probably because on the Dutch cards Buy is translated to 'Aanschaf', so the translator saw the A from Action and made this mistake.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2012, 03:27:36 am »
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I didn't anticipate the translation of "Band of Misfits" with "Vogelfreie" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogelfrei  but I must say that I quite like it.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #62 on: November 26, 2012, 06:03:02 am »
+1

On the "Familiar"-subject: I think "Vertrauter" is a good translation. Even the German D&D-books call those beings by that name.

Overall, I like the job that H&G is doing with this game, except for a few things. For example, there are a few errors in the rulebooks. The most confusing example is "Crossroads". The rulebook says that after your first Crossroads, every next one "only gives +1 Action instead of +3". I was really confused about that one. More errors can be found in the Hinterlands-rulebook, but I won't get into those. Although it's highly unlikely / impossible, it almost seems like they got a "Beta"-rulebook. Another "good" one: Scrying Pool, which has an extremely long sentence at the end which doesn't make any sense at all. At all. Luckily, on the card itself it's fine.

Also there's a problem with some translations. For example, King's Court is missing the "You may", Chancellor as well. Also, the German Chancellor doesn't "put your pile into your discard pile", it discards your pile. So, for a German player, Tunnel does indeed activate there (unless you know it's a mistake). Sometimes, the way a card is played is different (Tournament), or the card says "If you do" when it shouldn't (Bishop). There are a few more problems, but nothing too severe, I guess. Ah, one more: Thief doesn't say "gain" but "put them into your discard pile", and Venture doesn't say "Play", but... "auslegen", which I don't really have a good translation for. ("Auslegen" is not defined anywhere in the rulebooks, by the way.)

Many Germans complained about Seaside-Cards having a more greenish back than Base and Intrigue. If you put a Base card (or any card for that matter) facedown next to a Seaside card, I'd be able to pick the Seaside card in 19 of 20 times. It's not too bad in gameplay, but still. The reason for this, according to HiG, is a different printing company.

What I cannot get over is the fact that they screwed up the "Big Box" (Base and Cornucopia combined, plus all Promo Cards minus Governeur) so much. First, many runs of the Big Box only have 9 Workshops, but 11 Woodcutters. I got lucky, it seems, since I'm not missing any cards. However, many players reported this. The biggest blunder, however: the back of Stash isn't red. It isn't even any different. It's a plain, normal back. Seems someone wasn't paying attention there...
Also, Walled Village is priced at 5 in the inlay. Not a big mistake. But still. Also, my inlay for Hinterlands is mispinted, but that can happen, I guess. What's worse: Insead of big "O"s, they used Zeros (!) on the inlays for "0asis" and "0racle". Why?

A VERY positive thing about HiG, as far as I experienced it (and heard from other players) - no complaint will go unanswered. People who complained about the missing cards got those delivered by Mail. Sometimes, they even added one or two small games. Now that's nice! Some of my Prosperity-Cards weren't in perfect condition right after unpacking (white on the borders). This also was a common problem, as far as I know. I e-Mailed them, they replied that I'd get cards in good condition if they get my address. Good!

Okay, here's my last complaint. It's an extreme nitpick, but it shows how HiG is handeling Dominion just... perfectly.

Just take a look at this picture. Take your time...



It's very likely that you haven't noticed. It's really subtle.

You ready?

The +2-coin is flipped upside down.

I have no idea how HiG managed to do this. Seems like someone accidentaly clicked the wrong button at the wrong time.
It just mirrors everything about HiG-Dominion: They are doing a fine job. But boy, if they were more cautious, it could be a lot better.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 06:10:20 am by Eistee »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2012, 06:20:25 am »
+2

The +2-coin is flipped upside down.
hol' den Vorschlaghammer...
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Re: Translations
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2012, 04:52:22 am »
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I didn't anticipate the translation of "Band of Misfits" with "Vogelfreie" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogelfrei  but I must say that I quite like it.

Also, translation of "Forager" with "Mundraub" is brilliant.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2013, 01:01:56 am »
+1

Sorry to dig this back up, but I've been going through the Russian rulebook, and I've found some funny-ass shit.

Adventurer = Искатель приключений (literally "explorer of adventures," idiomatically "adventure seeker").  That's quite a mouthful.
Cellar = Погреба (Cellars).  Why is this plural?
Festival = Ярмарка (Fair).  The funny thing about this one is that, instead of just telling you what the card does, the FAQ tells you what you should say when playing it: "I play "Fair," and there remain two Actions.  Now "Market" - still all two Actions.  And for the second time "Fair!"  I have three Actions."  This is literally what is in the FAQ for Festival.
Militia = Ополчение (Home guard).  Tee hee.  Reminds me of Bedknobs and Broomsticks.
Moat = Ров (Ditch).  ROFL
Woodcutter = Лесоруб (Lumberjack).  I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay, I sleep all night and speak Russian all day...

Also the trash pile is свалка (landfill).

I'm sad that there's only official Russian translations for Base and Intrigue.  :(
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Re: Translations
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2013, 01:19:18 am »
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Some of those are weird, but what's so funny about Ров ? That really does mean moat, as in for a castle. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%B2 . And лесоруб and свалка seem reasonable too. What would you have instead?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2013, 01:19:50 am »
+1

Intrigue!

Courtyard = Внутренний двор (Interior courtyard).  Is this not redundant?  A courtyard is already in the interior of a building...
Great Hall = Зал приёмов (reception hall).  Seems... off, somehow...
Ironworks = Кузнечный цех (Blacksmith's shop).  I kinda like it.
Minion = Приспешник (accomplice).  This is always a fun one to see the translation of.
Nobles = Вельможи (dignitaries).  You'd think Russian would have a more direct word for the nobility.
Pawn = Заложник (hostage).  I really don't think this is the correct translation at all.  Lol.
Scout = Следопыт (pathfinder).  Interesting.
Secret Chamber = Тайник (hiding place).  It always fascinates me when another language has a short word for a concept that takes multiple words in English.  Even though this isn't quite an accurate translation.
Shanty Town = Трущобы (slum).  Oddly enough, this can also be translated as "jungle."
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Re: Translations
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2013, 01:21:07 am »
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Some of those are weird, but what's so funny about Ров ? That really does mean moat, as in for a castle. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%B2 . And лесоруб and свалка seem reasonable too. What would you have instead?

Oh, they're reasonable.  But their translations back into English are still funny.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2013, 02:09:06 am »
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I agree. Once I typed Goons in a bad translator on my computer and the German translation was Idioten (idiots in English).
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Re: Translations
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2013, 04:29:08 am »
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My Russian is very iffy, but here are some stabs:

Cellar = Погреба (Cellars).  Why is this plural?
Isn't that genitive singular?
Quote
Militia = Ополчение (Home guard).  Tee hee.  Reminds me of Bedknobs and Broomsticks.

The Russian word for militia, I would think, carries too much connotation with the Soviet system, where a "militsioner" was more or less a policeman. The German word "Miliz" doesn't sound very medieval to me, I would think the Russian word even less so.

Quote
Woodcutter = Лесоруб (Lumberjack).  I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay, I sleep all night and speak Russian all day...
In German translations of that Monty Python song (granted, many of the dubjobs on Monty Python didn't do the original justice) it's "Ich bin Holzfäller ...", exactly the German translation of the card name.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2013, 04:31:36 am »
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Secret Chamber = Тайник (hiding place).  It always fascinates me when another language has a short word for a concept that takes multiple words in English.  Even though this isn't quite an accurate translation.

Sounds like it'd be Russian for "cache", which is an even shorter word.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2013, 02:32:49 pm »
+2

The Finnish translation is quite something.

Expansions:
Dominion -> Dominion - Valtakunta (Kingdom). Yes, they seriously named the base game in the same way the expansions are named and I don't have the slightest idea why.
 Intrigue  ->  Hovin juonet  (Court's Schemes)
 Seaside  ->  Kaukaiset rannat  (Distant Shores)
 Prosperity  ->  Nousukausi  (Upswing)
 Cornucopia  ->  Elonkorjuu  (Harvest)
 Dark Ages  ->  Katovuodet  (Years Of Crop Failure) @werothegreat: feel free to be fascinated about this.
Alchemy and Hinterlands are accurately translated.

Card types:
 Victory  ->  Piste  (point, though in Finnish the word is more strongly associated with victory points than in English)
 Treasure  ->  Raha  (money)
 Reaction  ->  Vastaveto  (riposte)
 Duration  ->  Toistuva  (repeating)
Others are accurately translated.

Card names:
 Moneylender  ->  Koronkiskuri  (loan shark)
 Festival  ->  Juhlat  (party)
 Tribute  ->  Kymmenykset  (tithe)
 Salvager  ->  Hylkysukeltaja  (wreck driver, though we don't have a word for salvager in Finnish)
 Sea Hag  ->  Merennoita  (sea witch)
 Hoard  ->  Aarre  (treasure)
 Venture  ->  Palkkio  (reward)
 Hunting Party  ->  Jahti  (hunt)
 Develop  ->  Grynderi  (real-estate developer, this word is extremely informal and I didn't even know it existed before I bought Hinterlands)
 Scavenger  ->  Haaskalintu  (vulture)
 Madman  ->  Kylähullu . This one is actually brilliant, it literally means "village madman", but unlike "village madman", it's actually a word we use in Finnish.
The verb card names (Remodel and friends) are translated into nouns, because the Finnish verbs would have admittedly sounded stupid as card names. Some card originally plural names are singular in Finnish, and vice versa, but these make little difference.

Terminology:
 Gain  ->  Ottaa  (take)
 Buy  (verb) ->  Ostaa  (accurately translated, but very easy to mix with the above)


Card texts:
 Thief  may trash the treasure.
 Library  does the thing it's supposed to do, but it's worded in an extremely confusing way.
 Smugglers  doesn't mention gaining a "copy", it just simply gains "a card costing up to $6 that the player to your right gained on his last turn".
 King's Court  doesn't "may".
 Horn of Plenty  doesn't say it's worth $0, though it's understandable because the card text is significantly longer in Finnish and takes up the whole box by itself.
 Poor House  does indeed make you lose coins and it says "a minimum of 0", but the way it's worded, "a minimum of 0" is a part of the definition for the amount of coins you lose, not the amount of coins left.
 Sage  says "Put this card into your hand" instead of "that card".

Finally, my favorite:
 Young Witch  lets the other players reveal "suoja" cards. Suoja means protection in this context. However, that isn't the only meaning of suoja! Suoja also means "shelter", and IT'S ALSO THE WORD THEY USED FOR THE SHELTER CARD TYPE! ;D

EDIT: No, I don't think the bold effect was a good idea.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 02:42:14 pm by Awaclus »
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Translations
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2013, 03:13:51 pm »
0

Finally, my favorite:
 Young Witch  lets the other players reveal "suoja" cards. Suoja means protection in this context. However, that isn't the only meaning of suoja! Suoja also means "shelter", and IT'S ALSO THE WORD THEY USED FOR THE SHELTER CARD TYPE! ;D

So how do you select a Suoja pile during setup, when none of them cost $2 or $3?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2013, 07:58:12 pm »
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I have one card translated into Norwegian, which is Walled Village that I got buying an expansion. Then I saw that "Action" is translated into "befaling" which translates to "command" or "order". Quite a good translation for us. Not sure what the swedish version is, the two languages being so similar.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2013, 04:30:42 am »
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Finally, my favorite:
 Young Witch  lets the other players reveal "suoja" cards. Suoja means protection in this context. However, that isn't the only meaning of suoja! Suoja also means "shelter", and IT'S ALSO THE WORD THEY USED FOR THE SHELTER CARD TYPE! ;D

So how do you select a Suoja pile during setup, when none of them cost $2 or $3?
You just select a Kingdom pile, and they become suojas (or suojat? How do you write foreign plurals in English?).
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Re: Translations
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2013, 04:40:12 am »
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I have one card translated into Norwegian, which is Walled Village that I got buying an expansion. Then I saw that "Action" is translated into "befaling" which translates to "command" or "order". Quite a good translation for us. Not sure what the swedish version is, the two languages being so similar.

In German "Walled Village" is called "Carcassonne". Now that's quite clever in some respect, but personally I don't like it at all.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2013, 06:14:40 am »
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I have one card translated into Norwegian, which is Walled Village that I got buying an expansion. Then I saw that "Action" is translated into "befaling" which translates to "command" or "order". Quite a good translation for us. Not sure what the swedish version is, the two languages being so similar.

It's actually not translated at all, but remains "Action". Also, gain is translated to "ta upp" which means pick up. So when you play a Workshop it instructs you to pick up a card from the supply. No wonder people think the rules are hard to learn here.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2013, 12:56:54 pm »
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Finally, my favorite:
 Young Witch  lets the other players reveal "suoja" cards. Suoja means protection in this context. However, that isn't the only meaning of suoja! Suoja also means "shelter", and IT'S ALSO THE WORD THEY USED FOR THE SHELTER CARD TYPE! ;D

The funny thing is, they managed to create this sort of ambiguity twice in Dark ages: the word 'Ryöstäjä' (robber) is used as the name of both the card Rogue and the type Looter.

Other weird stuff I've spotted in the Finnish translation:

  • Band of Misfits doesn't require the chosen card to be an Action.
  • Cultist is translated as 'Okkultisti' (occultist, obv). These don't mean quite the same thing, do they?
  • Abandoned Mine is simply 'Raunioitunut kaivos' (ruined mine). Not a big deal, really... but why avoid direct translating?
  • Spoils is 'Sotasaalis' (spoils of war) which sounds a bit off to me. Whatever your marauders and bandits are doing, I'm not sure if they're capable of a large-scale war.
  • Rats is just 'Rotta' (a rat). This is not the only case where a plural English card name has been singularized in Finnish and, admittedly, keeping the plural form would have made the card text a bit awkward. But man, I wouldn't want to run into a rat that can single-pawedly destroy provinces and colonies.
  • Ironmonger has another out there translation not dissimilar to Develop: 'Reppuryssä' (some sort of Russian/Karelian peddler?). Not only is the term oddly specific, but it could also be considered somewhat pejorative. The direct translation 'Rautakauppias' would have been fine, and in line with the card's functional and lexical similarity to Ironworks 'Rautapaja'.
  • Rebuild is an intriguing case in that it shows how the lack of a definite article in Finnish can cause misunderstanding. The translation is spot-on per se, but the lack of definition makes the phrase 'Trash the Victory card' possible to be interpreted as 'Trash a Victory card'.  Like a Colony. From your opponent's deck.
It's a shame how the translation quality of the Finnish Dominion has clearly declined over time. The Base set is overall pretty well translated, barring the Thief blunder, whereas Dark Ages is brimming with all manners of issues.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2013, 05:36:26 pm »
0

Other weird stuff I've spotted in the Finnish translation:

  • Cultist is translated as 'Okkultisti' (occultist, obv). These don't mean quite the same thing, do they?
  • Rats is just 'Rotta' (a rat). This is not the only case where a plural English card name has been singularized in Finnish and, admittedly, keeping the plural form would have made the card text a bit awkward. But man, I wouldn't want to run into a rat that can single-pawedly destroy provinces and colonies.

Cultist and Occultist are certainly different in English!

And I've often wondered, couldn't Rats have been Rat Swarm, instead?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #80 on: February 08, 2013, 05:38:37 pm »
0

  • Spoils is 'Sotasaalis' (spoils of war) which sounds a bit off to me. Whatever your marauders and bandits are doing, I'm not sure if they're capable of a large-scale war.

Spoils of war doesn't literally mean that the spoils have to come from war; it applies to items gained through any sort of military activity.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2013, 08:52:53 am »
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But man, I wouldn't want to run into a rat that can single-pawedly destroy provinces and colonies.

Hey, it only takes one to multiply and go crazy with the population. Well, technically, it takes two, but we can assume that each rat you buy is pregnant.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2013, 09:17:56 am »
0

Rats is just 'Rotta' (a rat). This is not the only case where a plural English card name has been singularized in Finnish and, admittedly, keeping the plural form would have made the card text a bit awkward. But man, I wouldn't want to run into a rat that can single-pawedly destroy provinces and colonies.
Well, the rat might carry the plague.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2013, 06:39:36 am »
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If anyone needs it: http://snk.to/f-c7tk5vry - nearly full Polish translation of all Dominion sets. 9 cards lack names (so far I haven't found suitable ones, if you have any ideas, let me know). There are some differences when compared to part translation (Base, Intrigue, Cornucopia) done by Polish publisher who recently announced they don't plan to translate and publish the remaining sets.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2013, 07:26:47 am »
0

  • Spoils is 'Sotasaalis' (spoils of war) which sounds a bit off to me. Whatever your marauders and bandits are doing, I'm not sure if they're capable of a large-scale war.

Spoils of war doesn't literally mean that the spoils have to come from war; it applies to items gained through any sort of military activity.
Yes, but what does Sotasaalis mean? Maybe it has the restricted meaning Sade assumed the Engish word would have.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2013, 08:58:51 am »
0

  • Spoils is 'Sotasaalis' (spoils of war) which sounds a bit off to me. Whatever your marauders and bandits are doing, I'm not sure if they're capable of a large-scale war.

Spoils of war doesn't literally mean that the spoils have to come from war; it applies to items gained through any sort of military activity.
Yes, but what does Sotasaalis mean? Maybe it has the restricted meaning Sade assumed the Engish word would have.
It does have the restricted meaning. What marauders and bandits typically get would be "ryöstösaalis", spoils gained through robbery.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2013, 11:03:40 am »
+2

More finnish things:

-Forge doesn't say cost in coins
-Alchemist says: "when you discard this...". No during your clean-up phase clause.
-Fairgounds is called "Markkinat" which means market or fair. The correct translation would be "Huvipuisto" and it's actually called this way in Hinterlands rulebook once in one of the 10 recommended sets.
-Trading post doesn't have "if you do"
-For some reason Tactician gives "+1 ostos". It means "+1 buy" and normally it's "1 osto". It's means basically the same but still amuses me  :P.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 11:07:23 am by Julle »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2013, 11:14:49 am »
0

Hmm. Aside from Black Market shenanigans, when would you discard an Alchemist with a Potion in play other than during clean up?

I suppose you could play Venture or Loan.  Anything else?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2013, 01:03:06 pm »
0

More finnish things:

-Forge doesn't say cost in coins
-Alchemist says: "when you discard this...". No during your clean-up phase clause.
-Fairgounds is called "Markkinat" which means market or fair. The correct translation would be "Huvipuisto" and it's actually called this way in Hinterlands rulebook once in one of the 10 recommended sets.
-Trading post doesn't have "if you do"
-For some reason Tactician gives "+1 ostos". It means "+1 buy" and normally it's "1 osto". It's means basically the same but still amuses me  :P.
Oh and now that you mention Tactician, it also has the vanilla bonuses in the wrong order: the "+1 ostos" comes before +1 action. And the order is also wrong in Pawn.

SirPeebles: Black Market hasn't been printed in Finnish, so it's just Venture and Loan.

A while ago I noticed that Thief is a double fail. In addition to having one "may" too much, a Finnish Thief gains copies of the trashed cards instead of the trashed cards themselves.

The order of the cards in the boxes is also interesting: they are mostly in alphabetical order by their Finnish names, but Intrigue is in alphabetical order by their English names and Alchemy is ordered by their costs. In Dark Ages, Counterfeit is placed where it's placed in the English box, but other than that it's the Finnish alphabetical order.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 01:05:44 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2013, 03:18:00 pm »
0

  • Spoils is 'Sotasaalis' (spoils of war) which sounds a bit off to me. Whatever your marauders and bandits are doing, I'm not sure if they're capable of a large-scale war.

Spoils of war doesn't literally mean that the spoils have to come from war; it applies to items gained through any sort of military activity.

Yes, but what does Sotasaalis mean? Maybe it has the restricted meaning Sade assumed the Engish word would have.
It does have the restricted meaning. What marauders and bandits typically get would be "ryöstösaalis", spoils gained through robbery.

The German word "Beute" is more general, meaning also "prey".
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Re: Translations
« Reply #90 on: April 07, 2013, 03:32:59 pm »
0

  • Spoils is 'Sotasaalis' (spoils of war) which sounds a bit off to me. Whatever your marauders and bandits are doing, I'm not sure if they're capable of a large-scale war.

Spoils of war doesn't literally mean that the spoils have to come from war; it applies to items gained through any sort of military activity.

Yes, but what does Sotasaalis mean? Maybe it has the restricted meaning Sade assumed the Engish word would have.
It does have the restricted meaning. What marauders and bandits typically get would be "ryöstösaalis", spoils gained through robbery.

The German word "Beute" is more general, meaning also "prey".
Prey is just "saalis" in Finnish.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #91 on: December 02, 2014, 06:55:29 pm »
+5

Most sincere apologies for the necro, but I've been updating the wiki with card names in other languages.  Currently doing French and German, and will probably go back later once I find Russian.  If you speak a different language, please feel free to add in the names of the cards in your native tongue! 
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Re: Translations
« Reply #92 on: December 03, 2014, 07:07:15 am »
0

How did I miss this thread before, I love languages !

But unfortuately German and French have already been discussed here, and that's about all i have.

I would say I was a little disappointed with a missed opportunity to translate "Ill-Gotten Gains" by "Biens mal acquis", which isn't really a thing you say on its own, but it's part of a saying "bien mal acquis ne profite jamais", which literally means "ill-gotten good never profits". It sure doesn't profit your opponent !

Argent noir (black money) is fine though.

Oh an "touche-à-tout" for "Jack of All Trades" is a brilliant, brilliant translation, they did a great job there.

I'm always a little annoyed that "Baker" is translated in the masculine (boulanger rather than boulangère) when the illustration clearly shows a woman.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #93 on: December 03, 2014, 07:39:13 am »
0

Late to the party, but i thought that Blutzoll was one of the better german translations in the game. Then i looked it up and found out that it describes the number/set of people who have died because of war (and plagues etc). Means something totally different with "Zoll" (toll) being used in a figurative way, but carries the flavour nonetheless. I think it's creative and, in a way, clever.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #94 on: December 03, 2014, 08:02:35 am »
0

In how many translations does "butcher, baker, candlestick maker" fall flat? A casual German user will wonder why such an obscure profession is taken for a card title. Also, yes, the opportunity to match the name's to the picture's gender was missed in German too, which is a bit of a rub, if you pardon the pun.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:13:56 am by ipofanes »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #95 on: December 03, 2014, 08:10:30 am »
0

Most sincere apologies for the necro, but I've been updating the wiki with card names in other languages.  Currently doing French and German, and will probably go back later once I find Russian.  If you speak a different language, please feel free to add in the names of the cards in your native tongue!

I may give you a hand with Russian. What exactly are you up to? Card text translations, or only card names, or full strategical articles?

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Re: Translations
« Reply #96 on: December 03, 2014, 08:16:31 am »
0

In how many translations does "butcher, baker, candlestick maker" fall flat? A casual German user will wonder why such an obscure profession is taken for a card title.

In all of them, I would guess... Apparently it's a reference to this, which I (as someone who didn't grow up in an English-speaking country) had never heard of before Guilds came out. The translator would need to really go out of his/her way to find a suitable nursery rhyme to match the card names.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that it "falls flat," though. It's more like an easter egg that goes unnoticed by most foreigners.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:31:47 am by pedroluchini »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #97 on: December 03, 2014, 08:39:53 am »
0

I'm always a little annoyed that "Baker" is translated in the masculine (boulanger rather than boulangère) when the illustration clearly shows a woman.

In German, they'd already used Wahrsagerin (female) for Fortune Teller, so Soothsayer had to be called... Wahrsager.

That one's male, by the way.  But I guess that's consistent with the French translation being "Devin," though it weirds me out that they went out of their way to call Trader "Troqueuse."

Most sincere apologies for the necro, but I've been updating the wiki with card names in other languages.  Currently doing French and German, and will probably go back later once I find Russian.  If you speak a different language, please feel free to add in the names of the cards in your native tongue!

I may give you a hand with Russian. What exactly are you up to? Card text translations, or only card names, or full strategical articles?

At the moment, just names in different languages, in the Trivia section for each card.  Do you have links to the rules in Russian for each set?  I can only seem to find Base and Intrigue online...
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Re: Translations
« Reply #98 on: December 03, 2014, 09:31:20 am »
0

I can only seem to find Base and Intrigue online...

They are the only ones officially translated to Russian.
I've found unofficial translations for other sets though, see attachment. I've read through the card names, they are mostly fine with a couple exceptions.

And here are translations for promos:
Black Market - Чёрный Рынок
Envoy - Посланник
Walled Village - Укреплённая Деревня
Governor - Губернатор
Prince - Принц
Stash - Секрет (that one is really inaccurate, but the good word is already occupied by official translation of Secret Chamber).

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Re: Translations
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2014, 10:03:42 am »
0

Oh an "touche-à-tout" for "Jack of All Trades" is a brilliant, brilliant translation, they did a great job there.

How would you re-translate "Fiers-a-bras"?  It seems to work both as "strongarm" and "braggarts".
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Re: Translations
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2014, 10:27:55 am »
0

Fou (Madman): Man, but these French are literal!
I can just imagine the crazy guy wandering through the woods. Really, I pity le Fou.

Quote
Escroc (Swindler): Just a fun word to say!
Is this related to the English word Escrow? Because now I'm worried that I'm asking Swindlers to hold onto my money. (And Google tells me that no, they're false cognates, although I can't find anything saying that they don't have the same origins.)

Had to upvote for "I pity le Fou," and I am disappointed in everyone that did not upvote.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #101 on: December 03, 2014, 10:39:38 am »
0

I'm always a little annoyed that "Baker" is translated in the masculine (boulanger rather than boulangère) when the illustration clearly shows a woman.
In German, they'd already used Wahrsagerin (female) for Fortune Teller, so Soothsayer had to be called... Wahrsager.

They didn't have too, they did. There are some synonyms in german as well ("Hellseherin" for example)
As far as I am aware, there are actually different print runs featuring both genders for the Guilds card.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #102 on: December 03, 2014, 11:53:09 am »
0

Fou (Madman): Man, but these French are literal!
I can just imagine the crazy guy wandering through the woods. Really, I pity le Fou.

Quote
Escroc (Swindler): Just a fun word to say!
Is this related to the English word Escrow? Because now I'm worried that I'm asking Swindlers to hold onto my money. (And Google tells me that no, they're false cognates, although I can't find anything saying that they don't have the same origins.)

Had to upvote for "I pity le Fou," and I am disappointed in everyone that did not upvote.

I second this, as it was quite clever.  Didn't see it originally, am off to upvote now.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #103 on: December 03, 2014, 12:41:01 pm »
0

I'm always a little annoyed that "Baker" is translated in the masculine (boulanger rather than boulangère) when the illustration clearly shows a woman.
In German, they'd already used Wahrsagerin (female) for Fortune Teller, so Soothsayer had to be called... Wahrsager.

They didn't have too, they did. There are some synonyms in german as well ("Hellseherin" for example)
As far as I am aware, there are actually different print runs featuring both genders for the Guilds card.

Then how do you differentiate Fortune Teller and Soothsayer in German?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2014, 12:42:59 pm »
0

Oh an "touche-à-tout" for "Jack of All Trades" is a brilliant, brilliant translation, they did a great job there.

How would you re-translate "Fiers-a-bras"?  It seems to work both as "strongarm" and "braggarts".

The only context I know it from is "faire/jouer les fiers-à-bras" which basically means bragging, so I would go with "braggart" there. Not a big fan of that particular translation, I would have gone with "sbires" probably.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #105 on: December 03, 2014, 01:26:08 pm »
0

Fou (Madman): Man, but these French are literal!
I can just imagine the crazy guy wandering through the woods. Really, I pity le Fou.

Quote
Escroc (Swindler): Just a fun word to say!
Is this related to the English word Escrow? Because now I'm worried that I'm asking Swindlers to hold onto my money. (And Google tells me that no, they're false cognates, although I can't find anything saying that they don't have the same origins.)

Had to upvote for "I pity le Fou," and I am disappointed in everyone that did not upvote.

I second this, as it was quite clever.  Didn't see it originally, am off to upvote now.

Since the post was so long ago, the owed upvote has accrued interest.  You can go ahead and apply said interest to my post.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #106 on: December 03, 2014, 02:21:08 pm »
0

Oh, and if the translation is idiomatic (e.g. Blutzoll for Ill-Gotten Gains), please also leave a note giving its literal translation, like this:

* German: Blutzoll (lit. blood tax)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #107 on: December 03, 2014, 03:29:24 pm »
0

I've started adding Dutch translations to the Guilds cards, will add others soon.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #108 on: December 03, 2014, 03:57:52 pm »
0

I've started adding Dutch translations to the Guilds cards, will add others soon.

Thanks!  But could you put them above French?  I'd like for the languages to be in alphabetical (in English) order.  :)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #109 on: December 03, 2014, 04:05:54 pm »
+1

Ah, yes, sure. Dutch is very important so should be first anyway  ;)

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Re: Translations
« Reply #110 on: December 03, 2014, 04:14:36 pm »
+9

Oh an "touche-à-tout" for "Jack of All Trades" is a brilliant, brilliant translation, they did a great job there.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2014, 04:16:54 pm »
0

Also!  If there's a mistake in a translation of the card text, please report it in the same section, like so:

* Spanish: Mina.
** The Spanish card text lets you gain a Treasure costing exactly {{Cost|3}} more, instead of ''up to'' {{Cost|3}} more.

This will put the errata on a sub-bullet under the name.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #112 on: December 03, 2014, 04:48:44 pm »
0

Hugovj - I put in a few Dutch translations for Alchemy, but I can't find them for Potion, Vineyard, University, or Possession.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #113 on: December 03, 2014, 05:12:28 pm »
0

I can make them up from top of my head: Toverdrank, Wijngaard, Universiteit, Bezeten (?). I'll look them up.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #114 on: December 03, 2014, 05:20:35 pm »
+2

Is anyone interested in translating them into Klingon? I only have a basic knowledge of Klingon, so it would help me a lot.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #115 on: December 03, 2014, 05:23:45 pm »
0

How about Sindarin?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #116 on: December 03, 2014, 05:23:50 pm »
0

So, I have trouble finding Vineyard. I'm really sure it should be Wijngaard, but I can't find an image or something to prove it (I don't own Alchemy myself)

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Re: Translations
« Reply #117 on: December 03, 2014, 05:28:31 pm »
0

How about Sindarin?

I was thinking about Esperanto earlier.  But let's keep it to official translations for now. 

This is not me discouraging you from translating Dominion into Sindarin or Klingon - knock yourselves out, just don't put it on the wiki.  :)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #118 on: December 03, 2014, 07:41:46 pm »
+4

Sindarin is for the peasants (I mean come on, that's what Legolas speaks), Quenya is the way to go.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #119 on: December 04, 2014, 09:02:46 am »
0

Someone just put in the Spanish translation for Trader (with an errata, even), but as far as I can tell, Hinterlands hasn't even been published in Spanish.  Anyone have any idea who that was?  Or if you're them, could you fill in the rest of Hinterlands?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2014, 10:02:07 am »
+1

Someone just put in the Spanish translation for Trader (with an errata, even), but as far as I can tell, Hinterlands hasn't even been published in Spanish.  Anyone have any idea who that was?  Or if you're them, could you fill in the rest of Hinterlands?
That would be me. Hinterlands was released some time ago, and Dark Ages just a couple of months ago. I'll fill them this weekend ;)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #121 on: December 04, 2014, 10:20:37 am »
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Oh, and if the translation is idiomatic (e.g. Blutzoll for Ill-Gotten Gains), please also leave a note giving its literal translation, like this:

* German: Blutzoll (lit. blood tax)

Actually tax = Steuer, where Zoll = toll, a closer translation by the word's meaning would be "death toll" .

/edit: Oh, you have this in the OP ;D
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 10:27:19 am by assemble_me »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #122 on: December 04, 2014, 10:42:33 am »
0

Oh, and if the translation is idiomatic (e.g. Blutzoll for Ill-Gotten Gains), please also leave a note giving its literal translation, like this:

* German: Blutzoll (lit. blood tax)

Actually tax = Steuer, where Zoll = toll, a closer translation by the word's meaning would be "death toll" .

/edit: Oh, you have this in the OP ;D

"Blood tax" sounds cooler.  :P
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Re: Translations
« Reply #123 on: December 07, 2014, 06:45:05 pm »
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Here's another language enthusiast. I would like to throw in my five cents.

Most of you probably already know that "Hinterlands" is a loanword from German. The German name of the set has been acurately translated to "Hinterland" which is singular. I find it curious that in English the plural of the word is used while in German "Hinterland" doesn't actually have a plural.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #124 on: December 07, 2014, 06:49:46 pm »
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FWIW, it's also singular in French (arrière-pays).

2 to 1, English, you lose.

What, there are other languages ?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #125 on: December 07, 2014, 07:23:00 pm »
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Is there something specific a german-speaker owning every Dominion card and seeking ways to spend time that would better be spent studying can do to help?

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Re: Translations
« Reply #126 on: December 07, 2014, 10:25:45 pm »
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Is there something specific a german-speaker owning every Dominion card and seeking ways to spend time that would better be spent studying can do to help?

Go through the card articles and corroborate any literal translations I made?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #127 on: December 08, 2014, 12:04:58 am »
0

Here's another language enthusiast. I would like to throw in my five cents.

Most of you probably already know that "Hinterlands" is a loanword from German. The German name of the set has been acurately translated to "Hinterland" which is singular. I find it curious that in English the plural of the word is used while in German "Hinterland" doesn't actually have a plural.
Another curiosity: starting with Hinterlands, the sets have all been plural. Prior to that, the English titles were all singular.

Hinterlands
Dark Ages
Guilds
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Re: Translations
« Reply #128 on: December 08, 2014, 12:41:57 am »
+2

It's official.  The next Dominion expansion name will be plural.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #129 on: December 08, 2014, 01:59:45 am »
+5

It's official.  The next Dominion expansion name will be plural.
Dominion: Gunpowders.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #130 on: December 08, 2014, 08:00:42 am »
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OT: Tinkering with German rules for games played with the Decktet I found that English suits are plural (clubs, spades, hearts, diamonds) while most German suits are singular (Kreuz, Pik, Herz, Karo, but Schippen and Schellen).
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Re: Translations
« Reply #131 on: December 08, 2014, 08:06:40 am »
0

Here's another language enthusiast. I would like to throw in my five cents.

Most of you probably already know that "Hinterlands" is a loanword from German. The German name of the set has been acurately translated to "Hinterland" which is singular. I find it curious that in English the plural of the word is used while in German "Hinterland" doesn't actually have a plural.
Another curiosity: starting with Hinterlands, the sets have all been plural. Prior to that, the English titles were all singular.

Hinterlands
Dark Ages
Guilds

Well Dark Ages doesn't have a singular in English, it's a time period, which is always pluralised (for some reason).
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Re: Translations
« Reply #132 on: December 08, 2014, 08:28:54 am »
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Is there something specific a german-speaker owning every Dominion card and seeking ways to spend time that would better be spent studying can do to help?

Go through the card articles and corroborate any literal translations I made?

Sure. Are we talking just the card names? I don't think i have seen anything else.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #133 on: December 08, 2014, 08:47:43 am »
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Hinterlands
Dark Ages
Guilds

Well Dark Ages doesn't have a singular in English, it's a time period, which is always pluralised (for some reason).

Maybe it was so dark that we can't see how many of them there were? As opposed to the Bronze Age, the Industrial Age, the Age of Consent etc.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #134 on: December 08, 2014, 09:18:03 am »
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Dominion: Grammars
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Re: Translations
« Reply #135 on: December 08, 2014, 11:43:28 am »
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Is there something specific a german-speaker owning every Dominion card and seeking ways to spend time that would better be spent studying can do to help?

Go through the card articles and corroborate any literal translations I made?

Sure. Are we talking just the card names? I don't think i have seen anything else.

That is correct.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #136 on: December 24, 2014, 02:52:45 pm »
0

So adding translations to the articles has been going pretty well!  However, I think I've reached the extent of what Google can scrounge up for me in finding official card names.  It's time to call in some native speakers.  Here's what we still need:

Dutch: Seaside, Prosperity, Cornucopia, Dark Ages, Promo
Italian: Pretty much everything (working on this myself, but the cardlist I found is just a list, and does not have the official cards, so if I put up a wrong translation, and you have the set in Italian, please fix it!)
Spanish: A couple promo cards
Finnish: Everything (Awaclus?  Eevee?  Think I saw someone else Finning around)
Swedish: Everything
Chinese: Everything (please include transliterations)
Greek: Everything
Hungarian: Everything
Japanese: Everything (please include transliterations)
Korean: Everything (please include transliterations)
Norwegian: Everything
Polish: Everything
Portuguese: Everything
Romanian: Everything

Obviously, not all sets have been released in every language (Russian has only been released in Base and Intrigue), so just do as much as you can.  And please add a literal translation if it's not a direct translation.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #137 on: December 25, 2014, 03:05:21 pm »
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Spanish: A couple promo cards

Only Alijo (Stash) and Pueblo Amurallado (Walled Village) have been released :(
The other would be something like Enviado (Envoy), Mercado Negro (Black Market), Gobernador (Governor) and Príncipe (Prince).
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Re: Translations
« Reply #138 on: December 25, 2014, 11:04:32 pm »
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I've done Italian through Hinterlands, and Polish in Base and Intrigue. It's rather weird - it seems Polish has only been translated for Base, Intrigue and Cornucopia - what about all the other expansions in between?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #139 on: December 29, 2014, 10:19:22 am »
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I am currently working on whole-card translations in Brazilian Portuguese. I watched some Youtube videos of Brazilians playing Dominion with English cards so I assume there is no official Portuguese translation. I'm doing this for fun and to practice my written Portuguese.

I can add Portuguese card titles to the Wiki and try to be as literal as possible, although sometimes translations for different cards can overlap. I those cases, I would try and comply with the Spanish translations (which are not always literal or accurate). Should I go ahead and do that?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #140 on: December 29, 2014, 01:00:33 pm »
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I am currently working on whole-card translations in Brazilian Portuguese. I watched some Youtube videos of Brazilians playing Dominion with English cards so I assume there is no official Portuguese translation. I'm doing this for fun and to practice my written Portuguese.

I can add Portuguese card titles to the Wiki and try to be as literal as possible, although sometimes translations for different cards can overlap. I those cases, I would try and comply with the Spanish translations (which are not always literal or accurate). Should I go ahead and do that?

It seems there has already been a Portuguese translation by Runadrake, but it also seems that Runadrake has gone out of business or something, because the link to their website goes to some shitty blog.  There is also apparently a Brazilian Portuguese edition in the works.  I'd prefer official over unofficial translations on the wiki, please.

Links:

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameversion/76342/portuguese-edition

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameversion/252327/brazilian-edition
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Re: Translations
« Reply #141 on: December 29, 2014, 05:44:09 pm »
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Well, I can't seem to find any original Portuguese translations on the internet so you have to rely on some Portuguese or Brazilian person who owns a physical copy of the game. Anyway, I sincerely doubt they translated much more than Base and Intrigue.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #142 on: December 29, 2014, 07:18:41 pm »
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Well, shoot me a PM with what you've got translated for base.  If it looks good, I'll give you a go ahead to put it up there.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #143 on: December 30, 2014, 03:57:29 am »
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Wow, I never knew Portuguese versions existed!

Co0kieL0rd, let me know if you want help from a native speaker with your pt-br translations. (Btw, in this BGG image gallery we can see some cards from the pt-pt base set.)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #144 on: December 30, 2014, 11:02:28 am »
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Well, shoot me a PM with what you've got translated for base.  If it looks good, I'll give you a go ahead to put it up there.
I'll check with pedroluchini first ;) I bet my stylistic choices in the card texts are not always the best.

Wow, I never knew Portuguese versions existed!

Co0kieL0rd, let me know if you want help from a native speaker with your pt-br translations. (Btw, in this BGG image gallery we can see some cards from the pt-pt base set.)

I would appreciate your help! Are you Portuguese or Brazilian? Would you like to look at the whole card translations or just the card names?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #145 on: December 30, 2014, 11:51:51 am »
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I am Brazilian. You can send me the whole card text, if you want. :)

P.S.: Though I kind of agree with werothegreat that maybe the Wiki (and this thread) is not the best place to discuss fan translations.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 11:53:44 am by pedroluchini »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #146 on: January 01, 2015, 11:47:39 am »
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I am Brazilian. You can send me the whole card text, if you want. :)

P.S.: Though I kind of agree with werothegreat that maybe the Wiki (and this thread) is not the best place to discuss fan translations.

Then where would be a better place?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #147 on: January 01, 2015, 12:31:12 pm »
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I am Brazilian. You can send me the whole card text, if you want. :)

P.S.: Though I kind of agree with werothegreat that maybe the Wiki (and this thread) is not the best place to discuss fan translations.

Then where would be a better place?

This forum?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #148 on: January 01, 2015, 06:15:34 pm »
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@Co0kieL0rd: Yeah, you could start a new thread or just PM me. I enjoy looking at translations -- Dominion card names are tricky words whose meaning can be hard to capture in other languages, and I'm genuinely interested in seeing how others handle the problem.



By the way, I've been looking through the translated card names out of curiosity and I see some of them include a comment, e.g. for Peddler:

Quote
Italian: Ambulante (lit. wanderer)

Now, I also speak Italian and that doesn't sound right. It's true that ambulante means wanderer, but in this context what's meant is probably venditore ambulante. A literal translation back to English would be wandering vendor, i.e. a hawker or... a peddler. In the end, the Italian card name is pretty accurate, though it goes through a few etymological loops.

I dunno, is there an interest in this sort of short analysis (kind of like Bulbapedia does for Pokémon names)?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 06:16:45 pm by pedroluchini »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #149 on: January 04, 2015, 10:51:52 am »
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By the way, I've been looking through the translated card names out of curiosity and I see some of them include a comment, e.g. for Peddler:

Quote
Italian: Ambulante (lit. wanderer)

Now, I also speak Italian and that doesn't sound right. It's true that ambulante means wanderer, but in this context what's meant is probably venditore ambulante. A literal translation back to English would be wandering vendor, i.e. a hawker or... a peddler. In the end, the Italian card name is pretty accurate, though it goes through a few etymological loops.

I dunno, is there an interest in this sort of short analysis (kind of like Bulbapedia does for Pokémon names)?

I'm curious to see what native speakers think of the translations of card names into their languages. As for Peddler, I would have translated it with Ambulante in Portugues as well.

Another example: Do you think of "Forge" as a verb or a noun? Remodel, Expand, Rebuild are examples of verbs as card names, but what about Forge? Is it intended to mean something similar to "fake"/"imitate" or rather "Furnace"? If you look at the translations on the wiki, the publishers obviously had differing opinions about that. I wanted to translate Forge into Portugues with "Imitação" rather than "Forja" like the Spanish translation. (I translated Smithy with Forja, and Ironworks with Ferraria.) What do you think about that?

EDIT: Oops sorry, I should have started a new thread, as you said. But I'm not sure how to introduce the topic, yet.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 10:55:34 am by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #150 on: January 04, 2015, 06:53:34 pm »
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Forge, in this case, has the connotation of metalwork.  The Dutch translation  is incorrect in translating it as "counterfeit", essentially.  Please do not translate it into Portuguese as "Imitação".  And try "ferreiro" for Smithy.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #151 on: January 04, 2015, 07:48:29 pm »
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Forge, in this case, has the connotation of metalwork.  The Dutch translation  is incorrect in translating it as "counterfeit", essentially.  Please do not translate it into Portuguese as "Imitação".  And try "ferreiro" for Smithy.

Okay, if you say so. However, "ferreiro" means "smith". The correct term would rather be "ferraria".
I'm gonna continue this discussion elsewhere, as this thread is for translation in general-
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 07:50:15 pm by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #152 on: January 05, 2015, 11:59:56 am »
+2

So adding translations to the articles has been going pretty well!  However, I think I've reached the extent of what Google can scrounge up for me in finding official card names.  It's time to call in some native speakers.  Here's what we still need:

Norwegian: Everything

Obviously, not all sets have been released in every language (Russian has only been released in Base and Intrigue), so just do as much as you can.  And please add a literal translation if it's not a direct translation.

Only Base and Intrigue have been released.
Card-types;
Treasure = Mynt (Lit. coin, which makes cards like Harem make even less sense)
Attack = Angrep
Curse = Forbannelse
Action = Befaling (Lit. decree, as in "The king made a decree that..")
Victory = Seier
Reaction = Reaksjon

Base:
Cellar = Kjeller
Chapel = Kapell
Moat = Vollgrav
Chancellor = Rikskansler (same as the german word)
Village = Landsby
Woodcutter = Tømmerhogger
Bureaucrat = Byråkrat
Feast = Gilde (a bit archaic, but definitely means the same thing)
Gardens = Park (a direct translation would be 'Hage' for Garden, but Park evokes the Versailles style garden of the picture)
Militia = Hird (a small troop, a bit archaic)
Moneylender = Pengeutlåner
Remodel = Ombygging
Smithy = Smed
Spy = Spion
Thief = Tyv
Throne room = Tronsal
Council room = Rådssal
Festival = Festival
Laboratory = Laboratorie
Library = Bibliotek
Market = Marked
Mine = Gruve
Witch = Heks
Adventurer = Eventyrer


Intrigue:
Courtyard = Slottshage (Lit. Castle garden. We don't actually have a word for yard as in 'space between buildings' as such. 'Tun' could have worked for a farmyard, but not for the one pictured.)
Pawn = Kongsmann (Lit. King's man)
Secret Chamber = Lønnkammer (a term probably otherwise only used in fantasy novels and biblical stories)
Great Hall = Storsal
Masquerade = Maskerade
Shanty town = Fattigkvarter (Lit. Poors' quarter)
Steward = Kammerherre (Lit. chamberlord, i.e. personal assistant)
Swindler = Bedrager
Wishing well = Ønskebrønn
Baron = Baron
Bridge = Bro
Conspirator = Renkesmed (unusual as a noun. The verb 'smi renker' means pretty much to scheme or conspire)
Coppersmith = Kobbersmed
Ironworks = Jernverk
Mining village = Bergstad (Lit. Mountain place)
Scout = Speider
Duke = Greve
Minion = Lensmann (Lit. provincial police. Yes, he was the minion of the king, but it's not the first word I'd have thought of...)
Saboteur = Sabotør
Torturer = Skarpretter (Lit. executioner)
Trading post = Handelsstasjon
Tribute = Tiende (Lit. tithing, i.e. giving a tenth)
Upgrade = Oppgradering
Harem = Harem
Nobles = Adelsmenn (Lit. noblemen)

Edit to add:
Base treasures:
Copper = Kobber
Silver = Sølv
Gold = Gull

Base victory cards:
Estate = Herregård
Duchy = Grevskap
Province = Provins
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 12:03:05 pm by Sidsel »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #153 on: January 05, 2015, 02:19:50 pm »
0

Forge, in this case, has the connotation of metalwork.  The Dutch translation  is incorrect in translating it as "counterfeit", essentially.  Please do not translate it into Portuguese as "Imitação".  And try "ferreiro" for Smithy.

Okay, if you say so. However, "ferreiro" means "smith". The correct term would rather be "ferraria".
I'm gonna continue this discussion elsewhere, as this thread is for translation in general-

Most other languages have translated it pretty much as "smith."  My guess is it works as a synecdoche in most languages.  "Ferraria" seems like it should be fine.  Maybe use "grilhões" for Ironworks?

Bork Bork Bork :)

Thanks muchly!  I'll add these today.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #154 on: January 05, 2015, 03:11:37 pm »
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Maybe use "grilhões" for Ironworks?

That means something else --> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grilh%C3%A3o ;)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #155 on: January 07, 2015, 10:37:17 am »
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Sidsel, you seem to have missed Workshop.  What's the Norwegian translation for that card?

EDIT: Never mind, found it - however, the page I found is translating Smithy as "Smie" instead of "Smed."  Which is correct?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 10:50:09 am by werothegreat »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #156 on: January 09, 2015, 08:17:56 am »
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Sidsel, you seem to have missed Workshop.  What's the Norwegian translation for that card?

EDIT: Never mind, found it - however, the page I found is translating Smithy as "Smie" instead of "Smed."  Which is correct?

Smie. Sorry.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #157 on: January 09, 2015, 10:00:04 am »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #158 on: January 17, 2015, 11:58:11 pm »
+2

UPDATE

The following languages have had all of their official card translations (barring any errant Promos I'm not aware of) put up on the wiki: Czech, Dutch, French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Norwegian, Polish, Romanian, Russian, Spanish.

STILL NEEDED:

Chinese, Finnish, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Portuguese, Swedish

Now I know for a fact that there are several Finns on this forum, so Finnish really should not be that much of a problem.  Where are you folks?

EDIT: Nix the finished-ness on Dutch, that still needs Seaside, Prosperity, Cornucopia, Dark Ages, and Promo.  I also know there are multiple Nederlanders on here!  *glares*
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 06:24:57 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #159 on: January 23, 2015, 06:24:34 pm »
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Just spent half the day putting up Japanese, so *that's* done.  Still need Awaclus or Eevee to put up Finnish, though!
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Re: Translations
« Reply #160 on: January 25, 2015, 12:08:51 pm »
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wero, I'm just curious - Do you speak all things languages?  How many of these language translations have you done yourself?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #161 on: January 25, 2015, 07:53:40 pm »
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wero, I'm just curious - Do you speak all things languages?  How many of these language translations have you done yourself?

Well, I mean, I don't do any of the official translations, so, none?  If you mean how many translations I've put up, probably most of them.  Google Translate is my main friend for finding literal translations, but I try to corroborate with other sources.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #162 on: February 01, 2015, 02:26:02 pm »
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"MADMAN" IN FINNISH GOT TRANSLATED TO "VILLAGE IDIOT"

I'M DYING
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Re: Translations
« Reply #163 on: February 01, 2015, 02:29:30 pm »
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"MADMAN" IN FINNISH GOT TRANSLATED TO "VILLAGE IDIOT"

I'M DYING

It is a village, after all.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #164 on: February 01, 2015, 04:44:33 pm »
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By the way, pacovf - I see you live in Spain.  Has Guilds been translated into Spanish yet?

I don't actually live in Spain (I do go back there for holidays), but a quick google search reveals that you can only buy Dominion expansions up to Dark Ages ("Edad Oscura"), and "Dominion: Gremios" has no relevant results, so my money is on No, it hasn't been translated into Spanish.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 04:45:57 pm by pacovf »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #165 on: February 01, 2015, 04:47:25 pm »
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By the way, pacovf - I see you live in Spain.  Has Guilds been translated into Spanish yet?

I don't actually live in Spain (I do go back there for holidays), but a quick google search reveals that you can only buy Dominion expansions up to Dark Ages ("Edad Oscura"), and "Dominion: Gremios" has no relevant results, so my money is on No, it hasn't been translated into Spanish.

Just checking!  There's no Japanese page for Guilds on BGG yet, but that has been translated, so...  Also, if you're not in Spain, why did you put your location marker in Barcelona?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #166 on: February 01, 2015, 04:56:23 pm »
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By the way, pacovf - I see you live in Spain.  Has Guilds been translated into Spanish yet?

I don't actually live in Spain (I do go back there for holidays), but a quick google search reveals that you can only buy Dominion expansions up to Dark Ages ("Edad Oscura"), and "Dominion: Gremios" has no relevant results, so my money is on No, it hasn't been translated into Spanish.

Just checking!  There's no Japanese page for Guilds on BGG yet, but that has been translated, so...  Also, if you're not in Spain, why did you put your location marker in Barcelona?

Well, I do come back to Spain for holidays, and before I finished University that meant that I still spent a fair amount of time in Spain.
I also put a marker in Paris (that wasn't relevant last year, and won't be relevant in two weeks anymore), I've been moving somewhat often for my studies, and I can't update those markers...
Finding a play group is hard, especially since I can't carry my boardgame collection around... :(
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Re: Translations
« Reply #167 on: February 01, 2015, 05:59:29 pm »
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By the way, pacovf - I see you live in Spain.  Has Guilds been translated into Spanish yet?

I don't actually live in Spain (I do go back there for holidays), but a quick google search reveals that you can only buy Dominion expansions up to Dark Ages ("Edad Oscura"), and "Dominion: Gremios" has no relevant results, so my money is on No, it hasn't been translated into Spanish.

Just checking!  There's no Japanese page for Guilds on BGG yet, but that has been translated, so...  Also, if you're not in Spain, why did you put your location marker in Barcelona?

Well, I do come back to Spain for holidays, and before I finished University that meant that I still spent a fair amount of time in Spain.
I also put a marker in Paris (that wasn't relevant last year, and won't be relevant in two weeks anymore), I've been moving somewhat often for my studies, and I can't update those markers...
Finding a play group is hard, especially since I can't carry my boardgame collection around... :(

Sadness!  And you'd think one of the easiest things to do would be to have a language option on Goko.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #168 on: February 04, 2015, 03:04:15 pm »
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Treasure = Mynt (Lit. coin, which makes cards like Harem make even less sense)

I would have preferred another word for Treasure, but it actually doesn't create confusion in practice, because the cards are referred to as "Myntkort". Actually the term "Action" in the English original, referring sometimes to Action card and sometimes to Action is worse (see Diadem).

Quote
Action = Befaling (Lit. decree, as in "The king made a decree that..")

I've heard a lot of people complain about this. "Action" in Norwegian would have been "handling". The trouble is that "handling" also means "shopping". So not a good idea. I have a lot of other complaints about the Norwegian translation, but I actually think using "befaling" ("command") is a good idea.

Quote
Laboratory = Laboratorie

No, it's "Laboratorium", thankfully, since that's the correct singular.

Quote
Courtyard = Slottshage (Lit. Castle garden. We don't actually have a word for yard as in 'space between buildings' as such. 'Tun' could have worked for a farmyard, but not for the one pictured.)

"Gård" is a word for the space between buildings. And my dictionary gives "borggård" as a translation of "courtyard". That would have been better.

Quote
Secret Chamber = Lønnkammer (a term probably otherwise only used in fantasy novels and biblical stories)
Conspirator = Renkesmed (unusual as a noun. The verb 'smi renker' means pretty much to scheme or conspire)

I know that the translator wanted a little bit of an old fashioned feeling to the words used, since it has a medieval setting. "Lønnkammer" and "renkesmed" are both perfectly normal (not even archaic) words, although of course not in use colloquially, and very good translations.

Quote
Mining village = Bergstad (Lit. Mountain place)

If you break it up, yes. But the meaning of the word is actually "mining town".

Quote
Torturer = Skarpretter (Lit. executioner)

Yeah, that one is way off.

Quote
Duke = Greve
Duchy = Grevskap

These are plain wrong. "Duke" should be "hertug", and "duchy" should be "hertugdømme". "Hertugdømme" is a bit long, but hey, the Swedes did it that way.
"Greve" means "count". Of course Dark Ages was never translated, but I wonder how he would have translated Count.

Mistakes in the first printing was that Gardens/Park had the card type Action in addition to Victory. The rules were also altered so that Kingdom cards were all referred to as Action cards ("befalingskort") instead. Gardens was the only non-Action Kingdom card, so he thought that would make everything simpler. Oh boy.

Another grave mistake, which was not corrected until the third printing (because I let him know), was that Thief said that you may trash.

For the publishing of Intrigue I was consulting and corrected a lot of stuff on the cards and in the rules before the game was published. I didn't bother meddling with card names though, which were mostly good anyway. I was more concerned that the cards play right, and as I said there was a lot of wrong or confusing text there.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #169 on: February 04, 2015, 04:29:35 pm »
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Sidsel, Jeebus, can either of you post images of the cards in question?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #170 on: February 04, 2015, 11:12:33 pm »
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By the way, pacovf - I see you live in Spain.  Has Guilds been translated into Spanish yet?

I don't actually live in Spain (I do go back there for holidays), but a quick google search reveals that you can only buy Dominion expansions up to Dark Ages ("Edad Oscura"), and "Dominion: Gremios" has no relevant results, so my money is on No, it hasn't been translated into Spanish.

Just checking!  There's no Japanese page for Guilds on BGG yet, but that has been translated, so...  Also, if you're not in Spain, why did you put your location marker in Barcelona?

If it matters (or if you are listing somewhere), Japanese Guilds is:

ドミニオン:ギルド (do-mi-ni-o-n: Gi-ru-do)

You could probably list each foreign language name for each set.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #171 on: February 04, 2015, 11:15:53 pm »
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Also, the link for everything: https://hobbyjapan.co.jp/dominion/
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Re: Translations
« Reply #172 on: February 05, 2015, 12:54:31 am »
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Also, the link for everything: https://hobbyjapan.co.jp/dominion/

One thing I've learned from this is 村 means "Village" in both Japanese and Chinese.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #173 on: February 05, 2015, 04:26:23 am »
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Also, the link for everything: https://hobbyjapan.co.jp/dominion/

One thing I've learned from this is 村 means "Village" in both Japanese and Chinese.

A lot of Chinese characters mean the same thing in both Japanese and Chinese.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #174 on: February 05, 2015, 11:29:22 am »
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Sidsel, Jeebus, can either of you post images of the cards in question?

I don't have the Norwegian cards. The Norwegian Dominion rules are available online, but it's the first printing, so Tyv and Park have the wrong text. I'm including it (just the section with the card FAQ).

I rememberd that three of the promos have also been published: Stash (Skjult reserve), Walled Village (Befestet landsby) and Governor (Guvernør). Images here:
http://www.spillskrinet.no/show.php?spillid=551
http://www.spillskrinet.no/show.php?spillid=646
http://www.spillsjefen.no/popup_image.php?pID=54430

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Re: Translations
« Reply #175 on: February 05, 2015, 11:42:16 am »
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Sidsel, Jeebus, can either of you post images of the cards in question?

I don't have the Norwegian cards. The Norwegian Dominion rules are available online, but it's the first printing, so Tyv and Park have the wrong text. I'm including it (just the section with the card FAQ).

I rememberd that three of the promos have also been published: Stash (Skjult reserve), Walled Village (Befestet landsby) and Governor (Guvernør). Images here:
http://www.spillskrinet.no/show.php?spillid=551
http://www.spillskrinet.no/show.php?spillid=646
http://www.spillsjefen.no/popup_image.php?pID=54430

So what Sidsel posted is what's on the cards (apart from Smithy and Laboratory), they've just been translated incorrectly?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #176 on: February 05, 2015, 12:17:20 pm »
0

So what Sidsel posted is what's on the cards (apart from Smithy and Laboratory), they've just been translated incorrectly?

I don't understand what you're asking, sorry.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #177 on: February 05, 2015, 12:31:13 pm »
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So what Sidsel posted is what's on the cards (apart from Smithy and Laboratory), they've just been translated incorrectly?

I don't understand what you're asking, sorry.

For example, the Duke card in Norwegian is titled "Greve"?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #178 on: February 05, 2015, 03:31:44 pm »
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So what Sidsel posted is what's on the cards (apart from Smithy and Laboratory), they've just been translated incorrectly?

I don't understand what you're asking, sorry.

For example, the Duke card in Norwegian is titled "Greve"?

Right. Sorry I was unclear. Apart from Smithy and Laboratory, all the card name Sidsel posted seem to be correct.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #179 on: February 05, 2015, 04:49:38 pm »
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So what Sidsel posted is what's on the cards (apart from Smithy and Laboratory), they've just been translated incorrectly?

I don't understand what you're asking, sorry.

For example, the Duke card in Norwegian is titled "Greve"?

Right. Sorry I was unclear. Apart from Smithy and Laboratory, all the card name Sidsel posted seem to be correct.

Any news on forthcoming translations?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #180 on: February 05, 2015, 09:17:38 pm »
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Any news on forthcoming translations?

I don't know for sure, but I would guess no, because a couple of years ago I asked the distributor and he said no at that time.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #181 on: May 16, 2015, 09:41:25 am »
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With the help of a BGG user, all currently translated Dutch cards are up - the last to go up was Dark Ages.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #182 on: May 16, 2015, 09:52:06 am »
+1

I didn't anticipate the translation of "Band of Misfits" with "Vogelfreie" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogelfrei  but I must say that I quite like it.

Also, translation of "Forager" with "Mundraub" is brilliant.

I know it's been a couple years, but doesn't "Mundraub" mean "food theft"?  How is that a brilliant translation of "Forager", which is someone who pokes around the undergrowth looking for random food?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #183 on: May 16, 2015, 11:11:42 am »
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Means exactly that, don't know how that can be considered brilliant
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Re: Translations
« Reply #184 on: May 17, 2015, 02:50:41 pm »
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I didn't anticipate the translation of "Band of Misfits" with "Vogelfreie" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogelfrei  but I must say that I quite like it.

Also, translation of "Forager" with "Mundraub" is brilliant.

I know it's been a couple years, but doesn't "Mundraub" mean "food theft"?  How is that a brilliant translation of "Forager", which is someone who pokes around the undergrowth looking for random food?

For what it's worth, i think it's a horrid translation.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #185 on: May 17, 2015, 03:58:09 pm »
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Also, whoever did uploaded the Spanish translations, the translation for Knights is the only one missing (at least, until Guilds finally gets translated).

I do find it interesting which expansions get selected for translation in each language - Polish did Base and Intrigue, then skipped to Cornucopia, while Korean did Base and Intrigue, then Dark Ages and Guilds, and Seaside seems to have been the most recent.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #186 on: May 17, 2015, 04:02:44 pm »
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Also, whoever did uploaded the Spanish translations, the translation for Knights is the only one missing (at least, until Guilds finally gets translated).

Apparently they've kept the English names, which sort of makes sense:



Funny, trash in Spanish has been translated to "eliminate".
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Re: Translations
« Reply #187 on: May 17, 2015, 04:10:22 pm »
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Also, whoever did uploaded the Spanish translations, the translation for Knights is the only one missing (at least, until Guilds finally gets translated).

Apparently they've kept the English names, which sort of makes sense:



Funny, trash in Spanish has been translated to "eliminate".

I meant the randomizer card.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #188 on: May 17, 2015, 04:14:21 pm »
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Oh.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #189 on: May 17, 2015, 04:17:34 pm »
+2

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Re: Translations
« Reply #190 on: May 17, 2015, 07:33:59 pm »
+1

Caballeros is knight huh ? Is there a distinction between a knight a just a dude on a horse in Spanish ? Because "caballeros" sounds a lot like the French "cavalier" (ok, maybe not a lot but they're close), which really just means "dude who rides a horse" whereas "knight" (chevalier) has other implications.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #191 on: May 17, 2015, 07:38:10 pm »
+2

Caballeros is knight huh ? Is there a distinction between a knight a just a dude on a horse in Spanish ? Because "caballeros" sounds a lot like the French "cavalier" (ok, maybe not a lot but they're close), which really just means "dude who rides a horse" whereas "knight" (chevalier) has other implications.

Well, that's originally all a knight was - a warrior on horseback.  The whole "chivalry" thing came later.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #192 on: May 17, 2015, 08:04:39 pm »
+2

Caballeros is knight huh ? Is there a distinction between a knight a just a dude on a horse in Spanish ? Because "caballeros" sounds a lot like the French "cavalier" (ok, maybe not a lot but they're close), which really just means "dude who rides a horse" whereas "knight" (chevalier) has other implications.

Well, that's originally all a knight was - a warrior on horseback.  The whole "chivalry" thing came later.

It's pretty much the same in german and french. Also, i think it's called shovelry.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #193 on: May 17, 2015, 08:45:12 pm »
0

Caballeros is knight huh ? Is there a distinction between a knight a just a dude on a horse in Spanish ? Because "caballeros" sounds a lot like the French "cavalier" (ok, maybe not a lot but they're close), which really just means "dude who rides a horse" whereas "knight" (chevalier) has other implications.

Well, that's originally all a knight was - a warrior on horseback.  The whole "chivalry" thing came later.

It's pretty much the same in german and french. Also, i think it's called shovelry.



Is that game any good?  I've been pondering on and off whether or not to get it, but it's rather expensive on Steam for an 8-bit thingy.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #194 on: May 17, 2015, 09:03:28 pm »
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Caballeros is knight huh ? Is there a distinction between a knight a just a dude on a horse in Spanish ? Because "caballeros" sounds a lot like the French "cavalier" (ok, maybe not a lot but they're close), which really just means "dude who rides a horse" whereas "knight" (chevalier) has other implications.

Well, that's originally all a knight was - a warrior on horseback.  The whole "chivalry" thing came later.

(But of course chivalry originally just means 'knightliness'—i.e., behavior suitable for a horseman.)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #195 on: May 17, 2015, 10:14:56 pm »
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Caballeros is knight huh ? Is there a distinction between a knight a just a dude on a horse in Spanish ? Because "caballeros" sounds a lot like the French "cavalier" (ok, maybe not a lot but they're close), which really just means "dude who rides a horse" whereas "knight" (chevalier) has other implications.

I did not even know that the word "cavalier" existed in French! I thought "chevalier" conflated both meanings. The more you know!

In contemporary European Spanish, "caballero" is used to mean "gentleman", while "jinete" conveys the more literal meaning, "horseman".

"Caballero" can also be used to refer to members of Orders, but such recipients are extremely rare in Spain. I am not entirely sure of how knighthood works in the United Kingdom, so I don't know if they are directly equivalent. Still, historically "knight" and "caballero" mean exactly the same thing.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #196 on: May 18, 2015, 03:09:37 am »
+1

Right, but if you were watching the Olympics and there was some equestrian sport going on (let's say dressage because I like the word), you wouldn't call the people competing "caballeros", you'd call them "jinete" I'm assuming. Same in English you wouldn't say it's a knight, I guess you'd just say a horse rider or something ? Jockey is only for horse racing right ?

Anyway, sorry for the digression. Languages, they are fun.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #197 on: May 18, 2015, 03:51:57 am »
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I didn't anticipate the translation of "Band of Misfits" with "Vogelfreie" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogelfrei  but I must say that I quite like it.

Also, translation of "Forager" with "Mundraub" is brilliant.

I know it's been a couple years, but doesn't "Mundraub" mean "food theft"?  How is that a brilliant translation of "Forager", which is someone who pokes around the undergrowth looking for random food?

For what it's worth, i think it's a horrid translation.

Translating skills come into play where there is no direct translation. There is no German word for "forager" (dict.leo.org suggests "Wildbeuter" which is closer to "poacher"), so you'd better look for another fit. Both foraging and Mundraub is done out of necessity, and petty food theft was treated (German law prior to 1975) as a misdemeanor rather than a deliquancy when the thief was hungry. The site http://mundraub.org maps sites where food can be collected legally. As the picture does not show someone who pokes around the undergrowth, the German translation arguably fits the context better than the original. Hence, brilliant.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #198 on: May 18, 2015, 05:48:10 am »
+1

Caballeros is knight huh ? Is there a distinction between a knight a just a dude on a horse in Spanish ? Because "caballeros" sounds a lot like the French "cavalier" (ok, maybe not a lot but they're close), which really just means "dude who rides a horse" whereas "knight" (chevalier) has other implications.

Well, that's originally all a knight was - a warrior on horseback.  The whole "chivalry" thing came later.

It's pretty much the same in german and french. Also, i think it's called shovelry.


Is that game any good?  I've been pondering on and off whether or not to get it, but it's rather expensive on Steam for an 8-bit thingy.

I think it's a good game and had me entertained for a while. I'm not sure it's goo enough to be worth 15€, but i didn't regret buying it. The graphics are 8 bit (i think they cheated a bit with the colors), but the gameplay luckily isn't. Then again, i can feed of Mega Man nostalgia. Also i think they are planning at least one free DLCs (same levels, other main character). I should probably mention it contains a few rather good laughs.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #199 on: May 18, 2015, 05:54:10 am »
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I didn't anticipate the translation of "Band of Misfits" with "Vogelfreie" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogelfrei  but I must say that I quite like it.

Also, translation of "Forager" with "Mundraub" is brilliant.

I know it's been a couple years, but doesn't "Mundraub" mean "food theft"?  How is that a brilliant translation of "Forager", which is someone who pokes around the undergrowth looking for random food?

For what it's worth, i think it's a horrid translation.

Translating skills come into play where there is no direct translation. There is no German word for "forager" (dict.leo.org suggests "Wildbeuter" which is closer to "poacher"), so you'd better look for another fit. Both foraging and Mundraub is done out of necessity, and petty food theft was treated (German law prior to 1975) as a misdemeanor rather than a deliquancy when the thief was hungry. The site http://mundraub.org maps sites where food can be collected legally. As the picture does not show someone who pokes around the undergrowth, the German translation arguably fits the context better than the original. Hence, brilliant.

"Mundraub" implies stealing something, like a harmless attack. "Forager" implies living of remains, which is exactly what the card does - it lives of the trash. I'm totally fine with "Blutzoll", because i think it carries the theme very well, sounds nice and even gets some kind of double-meaning in the context. But Mundraub lacks those qualities. It doesn't even describe the same thing, with Forager referring to a person.

But well, you can argue a lot about preferences.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #200 on: May 18, 2015, 06:00:50 am »
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"Cavalier" has a connotation of a knight (on horseback) in English, whether or not that is correct. 
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Re: Translations
« Reply #201 on: May 18, 2015, 10:04:09 am »
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Right, but if you were watching the Olympics and there was some equestrian sport going on (let's say dressage because I like the word), you wouldn't call the people competing "caballeros", you'd call them "jinete" I'm assuming. Same in English you wouldn't say it's a knight, I guess you'd just say a horse rider or something ? Jockey is only for horse racing right ?

Anyway, sorry for the digression. Languages, they are fun.

Yes, you would call them jinetes. We also talk about the "cuatro jinetes del Apocalipsis", etc. Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #202 on: May 20, 2015, 11:00:34 am »
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What irks me about finding Asian card name translations is that for a lot of words you can substitute one pictogram for another, and the word still means the same thing.  So you have fan translations that came out before the official ones that disagree with them.  And since for whatever reason Chinese, Japanese and Korean Dominion fans don't feel any sort of desire to upload translated card images, it makes it difficult trying to parse out which translations actually are the official ones.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #203 on: May 20, 2015, 01:15:34 pm »
+2

For the sake of completion, the German word "Kavalier" nowadays means "gentleman", similar to how it is in Spanish, though Kavalier is a bit out of fashion. We say gentleman, too.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #204 on: May 20, 2015, 01:32:38 pm »
+2

What irks me about finding Asian card name translations is that for a lot of words you can substitute one pictogram for another, and the word still means the same thing.

(Um, this is a caricature of Asian languages and writing systems. As far as I can tell, what you mean by this is "There are multiple words that mean the same thing [and it's hard to tell which one is the official translation].")
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Re: Translations
« Reply #205 on: May 20, 2015, 07:56:20 pm »
0

I'm always a little annoyed that "Baker" is translated in the masculine (boulanger rather than boulangère) when the illustration clearly shows a woman.

In German, they'd already used Wahrsagerin (female) for Fortune Teller, so Soothsayer had to be called... Wahrsager.

That one's male, by the way.  But I guess that's consistent with the French translation being "Devin," though it weirds me out that they went out of their way to call Trader "Troqueuse."

Most sincere apologies for the necro, but I've been updating the wiki with card names in other languages.  Currently doing French and German, and will probably go back later once I find Russian.  If you speak a different language, please feel free to add in the names of the cards in your native tongue!

I may give you a hand with Russian. What exactly are you up to? Card text translations, or only card names, or full strategical articles?

At the moment, just names in different languages, in the Trivia section for each card.  Do you have links to the rules in Russian for each set?  I can only seem to find Base and Intrigue online...

So I know this was posted half a year ago, but I'm just reading this now, and I can't believe there's a card named after me.  I can't find a picture online of Soothsayer/Devin.  I want to make it my avi now lol
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Re: Translations
« Reply #206 on: May 20, 2015, 08:31:33 pm »
+1

I'm always a little annoyed that "Baker" is translated in the masculine (boulanger rather than boulangère) when the illustration clearly shows a woman.

In German, they'd already used Wahrsagerin (female) for Fortune Teller, so Soothsayer had to be called... Wahrsager.

That one's male, by the way.  But I guess that's consistent with the French translation being "Devin," though it weirds me out that they went out of their way to call Trader "Troqueuse."

Most sincere apologies for the necro, but I've been updating the wiki with card names in other languages.  Currently doing French and German, and will probably go back later once I find Russian.  If you speak a different language, please feel free to add in the names of the cards in your native tongue!

I may give you a hand with Russian. What exactly are you up to? Card text translations, or only card names, or full strategical articles?

At the moment, just names in different languages, in the Trivia section for each card.  Do you have links to the rules in Russian for each set?  I can only seem to find Base and Intrigue online...

So I know this was posted half a year ago, but I'm just reading this now, and I can't believe there's a card named after me.  I can't find a picture online of Soothsayer/Devin.  I want to make it my avi now lol

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Re: Translations
« Reply #207 on: August 19, 2015, 05:58:08 am »
0

So, Adventures is (finally) out in Dutch, and I'll upload the translations very soon :)

sc0UT

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Re: Translations
« Reply #208 on: August 29, 2015, 10:04:26 am »
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The german rules are online. I added the card names to the wiki. They made the Page line masculine, even though the cardarts show women.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #209 on: August 29, 2015, 12:57:09 pm »
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The german rules are online. I added the card names to the wiki. They made the Page line masculine, even though the cardarts show women.

Link?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #210 on: August 29, 2015, 12:59:45 pm »
+1

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Re: Translations
« Reply #211 on: August 30, 2015, 06:16:45 am »
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http://www.dominion-welt.de/assets/domabenteuer_sr_72dpi.pdf

Wow. They actually DID remove the unnecessary dividing line Durations had in Seaside. Wa-hoo! Wonder why Rio Grande didn't also change this when they were redoing Seaside...

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Re: Translations
« Reply #212 on: August 30, 2015, 11:05:38 am »
+1

Because a group of members of the German Dominion Fan Forum advised the guys of ASS a bit when they did the translations for Adventures.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #213 on: October 12, 2015, 08:30:42 pm »
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Any Frenchies on here?  Ystari has published their translation of Adventures, but I can't seem to find a complete upload of all the French card names.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #214 on: November 16, 2015, 05:20:23 pm »
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CALLING ALL NON-ANGLOPHONE DOMINION PLAYERS

Do you own any Dominion sets in your native language?  Do you have a scanner or other means to get decent quality pictures of the cards?  Please help the wiki by uploading pictures to the new Alternate Versions sections of card pages.  I've started with Cellar:

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Cellar#Alternate_versions

I'd (once again) do this myself, but there really seems to be a dearth of non-English scans of cards on the interwebs.  Maybe we can change that!
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Re: Translations
« Reply #215 on: May 05, 2016, 01:36:49 am »
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I think, "other versions" and "in other languages" should not  be separated. But i am insecure, which combinattion would be preferable.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #216 on: July 12, 2016, 09:12:19 am »
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How did Artificer get translated as "Kanonnengieter" (cannon smelter) in Dutch? The picture clearly shows a glass blower.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #217 on: July 12, 2016, 12:24:36 pm »
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How did Artificer get translated as "Kanonnengieter" (cannon smelter) in Dutch? The picture clearly shows a glass blower.

Glass cannon!
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Re: Translations
« Reply #218 on: October 17, 2016, 06:45:33 am »
+1

I just realized that the awful German rules translation doesn't require you to pay when you buy an event.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #219 on: October 17, 2016, 09:41:09 am »
+1

I just realized that the awful German rules translation doesn't require you to pay when you buy an event.

Government subsidized events.  Thanks socialism. 
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Re: Translations
« Reply #220 on: January 02, 2017, 08:01:01 am »
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How has Groundskeeper not been translated to "Platzwart" in German?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #221 on: April 19, 2018, 09:43:42 am »
+1

So what Sidsel posted is what's on the cards (apart from Smithy and Laboratory), they've just been translated incorrectly?

I don't understand what you're asking, sorry.

For example, the Duke card in Norwegian is titled "Greve"?

Yeah, I know this one's really old, but there's a reason "Duke" is translated as "Greve" (which in turn means "Count").

When they translated the basic cards, the correct translation of "Duchy" would be "Hertugdømme". As they elected to translate "Estate" as "Herregård", they felt that two cards that look very much alike shouldn't have the same three letters at the start of the card name. Of course, they would've avoided the problem altogether if they just named "Estate" "Gods".

I was actually afraid they would translate "Duke" correctly as "Hertug", which meant that the reference to "Grevskap" wouldn't be there, so I'm sort of happy with what they ended up doing. I don't think more sets will be translated to Norwegian (only Dominion, Intrigue, Prosperity and the Three promos Stash, Governor and Walled Village have been so far), but if that would change, I'm sure "Count" would be named "Hertug". So far I've "only" seen two functional errors on the Norwegian cards: The Norwegian "Bishop" ("Biskop") says that you can discard a card for VP token gain. Of course you have to trash it. "Governor" ("Guvernør") suggests that trashing is mandatory if the person playing the card chooses the trashing effect, which of course it isn't.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #222 on: April 19, 2018, 10:26:50 am »
+1

So far I've "only" seen two functional errors on the Norwegian cards: The Norwegian "Bishop" ("Biskop") says that you can discard a card for VP token gain. Of course you have to trash it. "Governor" ("Guvernør") suggests that trashing is mandatory if the person playing the card chooses the trashing effect, which of course it isn't.

The first edition of the base game had mistakes on Thief and Gardens. (I told them about Thief and they corrected it. I think they figured out Gardens by themselves.) I did a proofreading of Intrigue before publication, back in 2011, and caught two cards with errors (plus several cards that I thought were unclear). I still haven't seen Norwegian Intrigue, so I don't know how it turned out.

I recently did a proofreading of Empires, so I guess they will publish that at some point. I'm counting 19 cards with clear errors that I corrected. And of course many others that could be improved. I also did this for Dismantle.

I also haven't seen Prosperity, which I was not involved in. I would be surprised if there's only one card with an error. But maybe they got someone else with Dominion knowledge to check it.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #223 on: April 19, 2018, 11:15:01 am »
+1

So far I've "only" seen two functional errors on the Norwegian cards: The Norwegian "Bishop" ("Biskop") says that you can discard a card for VP token gain. Of course you have to trash it. "Governor" ("Guvernør") suggests that trashing is mandatory if the person playing the card chooses the trashing effect, which of course it isn't.

The first edition of the base game had mistakes on Thief and Gardens. (I told them about Thief and they corrected it. I think they figured out Gardens by themselves.) I did a proofreading of Intrigue before publication, back in 2011, and caught two cards with errors (plus several cards that I thought were unclear). I still haven't seen Norwegian Intrigue, so I don't know how it turned out.

I recently did a proofreading of Empires, so I guess they will publish that at some point. I'm counting 19 cards with clear errors that I corrected. And of course many others that could be improved. I also did this for Dismantle.

I also haven't seen Prosperity, which I was not involved in. I would be surprised if there's only one card with an error. But maybe they got someone else with Dominion knowledge to check it.

Well, I did get the file for Prosperity several years after it was published. I proofread the rulebook and had lots of comments, even suggesting ways of making it better. I was so depressed going through it, that I never even got going for the cards themselves (except for the probably known issues of different fonts, Stash saying "Myntkort" at the bottom, while all the other treasures simply saying "Mynt", all-capital or all-lowercase letters on a host of card titles, differences like "kort på hånden" og "håndkort", etc.), if you discount that I already mentioned the functional error on Biskop.

What did the original Tyv and Park say? My printing of these seem fine (N-22024860), though they're still kind of poorly translated.

There were lots of things I would change, mind you, but I don't think I saw any other functional errors, or I've forgotten all about them (as I don't read the Norwegian cards anymore).
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 11:18:05 am by Oyvind »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #224 on: April 19, 2018, 12:13:53 pm »
+1

Well, I did get the file for Prosperity several years after it was published. I proofread the rulebook and had lots of comments, even suggesting ways of making it better. I was so depressed going through it, that I never even got going for the cards themselves (except for the probably known issues of different fonts, Stash saying "Myntkort" at the bottom, while all the other treasures simply saying "Mynt", all-capital or all-lowercase letters on a host of card titles, differences like "kort på hånden" og "håndkort", etc.), if you discount that I already mentioned the functional error on Biskop.

What did the original Tyv and Park say? My printing of these seem fine (N-22024860), though they're still kind of poorly translated.

There were lots of things I would change, mind you, but I don't think I saw any other functional errors, or I've forgotten all about them (as I don't read the Norwegian cards anymore).

Yeah, I also found many, many things to improve in the Empires rulebook. The good thing is that I got paid for it that time. (With Intrigue it was voluntary.) Maybe next time they'll give me the translation job from scratch, but it seems that they have no more plans for Dominion.

Original Tyv used "may" ("kan") for trashing opponents' Treasures!
Original Park was an Action card (Befalingskort). I assume the translator thought it was simpler if Kingdom cards and Action cards were the same thing. In the rules there was no distinction between the two.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #225 on: April 19, 2018, 12:25:49 pm »
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Well, I did get the file for Prosperity several years after it was published. I proofread the rulebook and had lots of comments, even suggesting ways of making it better. I was so depressed going through it, that I never even got going for the cards themselves (except for the probably known issues of different fonts, Stash saying "Myntkort" at the bottom, while all the other treasures simply saying "Mynt", all-capital or all-lowercase letters on a host of card titles, differences like "kort på hånden" og "håndkort", etc.), if you discount that I already mentioned the functional error on Biskop.

What did the original Tyv and Park say? My printing of these seem fine (N-22024860), though they're still kind of poorly translated.

There were lots of things I would change, mind you, but I don't think I saw any other functional errors, or I've forgotten all about them (as I don't read the Norwegian cards anymore).

Yeah, I also found many, many things to improve in the Empires rulebook. The good thing is that I got paid for it that time. (With Intrigue it was voluntary.) Maybe next time they'll give me the translation job from scratch, but it seems that they have no more plans for Dominion.

Original Tyv used "may" ("kan") for trashing opponents' Treasures!
Original Park was an Action card (Befalingskort). I assume the translator thought it was simpler if Kingdom cards and Action cards were the same thing. In the rules there was no distinction between the two.

Hahah, I certainly didn’t see those!

I made a quick scan now, and found several other errors that I already mentioned for Vennerød. Seems like my memory failed me. But anyway, your tale is both hilarious and scary.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #226 on: April 19, 2018, 04:56:49 pm »
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The german translation for „Jack of all Trades“ is „Lebenskünstler“. I would translate „Lebenskünstler“ with „Survivalist“.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #227 on: April 20, 2018, 03:10:35 am »
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The german translation for „Jack of all Trades“ is „Lebenskünstler“. I would translate „Lebenskünstler“ with „Survivalist“.

So would Google, which doesn't make it a good translation. If you translate round-robin, you get "Überlebenskünster", which is something different. A "Lebenskünstler" is a bonvivant on a budget, a Diogenes in the barrel.

A direct translation would be the dated "Hans Dampf in allen Gassen" which doesn't really fit the title space. "Multitalent" might have been an apt translation. But I am fine with "Lebenskünstler" as it fits the image of Roadside Jack.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #228 on: April 20, 2018, 03:24:20 am »
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I am not really satisfied with the recent German translations. "Cobbler" was translated with "Schuster", which is technically correct but doesn't fit the image. An obvious choice for a night phase would have been "Heinzelmännchen", the folks who come out and night and do the handiwork. Also "Geschenk des Waldes/der Flamme" etc. is a "present" for birthday. The more spiritual meaning of "gift" would translate as "Gabe".

The trash for something better cards, which with the exception of Butcher are titled with verbs, have in most cases been named with words ending on "-bau". Dismantle could have been titled in the same vein as "Rückbau" which is admittedly a more technocratic expression for "Abbruch" (Teardown) but would have fit the scheme.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #229 on: April 20, 2018, 05:37:51 am »
+2

I've been looking through the list of cards in other languages, and one thing I find very funny is that Walled Village is called Carcassonne in German, but not in French.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #230 on: April 20, 2018, 10:03:43 am »
+1

At least the Norwegian translations have done a pretty good job with the flavor part - the card names and such. I would say that getting the actual rules right is slightly more important though.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #231 on: April 20, 2018, 10:30:31 am »
+1

Looking at the notes I wrote to the Norwegian publisher about Intrigue (which as I mentioned I still haven't checked if they followed), I found the following.

In the section about the three piles to end the game, it was explained as "Treasure, Victory and Action cards". (Of course Curse was missing.) I recommended writing "kingdom cards" instead of "Action cards". Although no Kingdom cards existed that were not either Treasure, Victory or Action, I theorized that in the future there might be some. My theory was actually not confirmed until Nocturne!

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Re: Translations
« Reply #232 on: April 20, 2018, 05:50:41 pm »
+1

At least the Norwegian translations have done a pretty good job with the flavor part - the card names and such. I would say that getting the actual rules right is slightly more important though.

I agree. I’ve commended and applauded them several times for their ability to use flavorful card titles. That was a big reason for my fascination with the game when I first started out. If they would keep off the flavor path for the mechanical game texts on each card, that would’ve been much better, but I’m so happy we have cards like Skarpretter, Renkesmed, Sjarlatan, etc.!

All in all I’m extremely thankful for what Vennerød has done for the game! I’m also thankful for the fact that they listen to their customer base as much as they do. Very sad that they seem to have given up on Dominion, more or less, but I actually think the release of the 2nd edition acted as a nail in their Dominion coffin. They probably need to release those before releasing the other sets (now that the original boxes are as good as obsolete), and that is, of course, very expensive in such a little country with so small print runs. They probably still have a lot of 1st ed. boxes that suddenly became much less attractive. And that could probably kill the company, if it was a little smaller.

Luckily they’re not dependent on Dominion to survive in the industry, but it’s really sad for fans of the game like you and me. It’s so much easier to spread the gospel with Norwegian cards in Norway. In your absence this year, I’ll probably arrange the Norwegian Dominion Championship 2018 at Arcon. Details are not finalized, but I’ve been in contact with Knut about it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 06:26:16 pm by Oyvind »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #233 on: April 20, 2018, 06:24:59 pm »
+1

Looking at the notes I wrote to the Norwegian publisher about Intrigue (which as I mentioned I still haven't checked if they followed), I found the following.

In the section about the three piles to end the game, it was explained as "Treasure, Victory and Action cards". (Of course Curse was missing.) I recommended writing "kingdom cards" instead of "Action cards". Although no Kingdom cards existed that were not either Treasure, Victory or Action, I theorized that in the future there might be some. My theory was actually not confirmed until Nocturne!

Well, the Norwegian Intrigue rulebook now says: «The game ends at the end of a player’s turn if one of these conditions are met: Either that the Province pile is empty, or that three other piles are empty (treasures, victory cards, kingdom cards. curse cards).» The period inside the brackets isn’t a typo on my part, by the way, and is probably there because you reminded them of the curse pile counting for a three-pile ending. This is kind of awkward to read, I think. Extraneous words and a dubious sentence at best. And why did they specify «other» piles? While I guess it’s technically correct (if Province is among the first three piles to empty, the Province pile IS empty, so the game would end either way), it seems unnecessary and out of place, as a reference to three empty piles or an empty Province pile, in that order, mind you, like the English rules say, is both much simpler and much shorter: «The game ends after 3 piles are empty or the Province pile is empty». I think they should’ve removed the brackets altogether. People would understand, I think.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #234 on: April 20, 2018, 06:41:28 pm »
+1

Well, the Norwegian Intrigue rulebook now says: «The game ends at the end of a player’s turn if one of these conditions are met: Either that the Province pile is empty, or that three other piles are empty (treasures, victory cards, kingdom cards. curse cards).» The period inside the brackets isn’t a typo on my part, by the way, and is probably there because you reminded them of the curse pile counting for a three-pile ending. This is kind of awkward to read, I think. Extraneous words and a dubious sentence at best. And why did they specify «other» piles? While I guess it’s technically correct (if Province is among the first three piles to empty, the Province pile IS empty, so the game would end either way), it seems unnecessary and out of place, as a reference to three empty piles or an empty Province pile, in that order, mind you, like the English rules say, is both much simpler and much shorter: «The game ends after 3 piles are empty or the Province pile is empty». I think they should’ve removed the brackets altogether. People would understand, I think.

I'm amazed that "curse cards" was just added after the period, and nobody even proofread it before print (or it seems not anyway). I don't think adding "other" is that bad, but it's sad that they're not putting a little more effort into making the rules clear and precise.

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Re: Translations
« Reply #235 on: April 23, 2018, 03:27:23 am »
+1

I’m so happy we have cards like Skarpretter, Renkesmed, Sjarlatan, etc.!

Renkesmed sounds great to German ears too, but it would be a bit more fitting if the primary function would be card drawing. After all, it's a smed (smith, I guess), if only in a figurative sense. To my mind, Diplomat would be a good renkesmed.

I don't know if Skarpretter means the same as German Scharfrichter, but that would be an executioner, whose purpose is beheading, not torturing.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 03:30:50 am by ipofanes »
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Re: Translations
« Reply #236 on: April 25, 2018, 08:11:37 pm »
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I’m so happy we have cards like Skarpretter, Renkesmed, Sjarlatan, etc.!

Renkesmed sounds great to German ears too, but it would be a bit more fitting if the primary function would be card drawing. After all, it's a smed (smith, I guess), if only in a figurative sense. To my mind, Diplomat would be a good renkesmed.

I don't know if Skarpretter means the same as German Scharfrichter, but that would be an executioner, whose purpose is beheading, not torturing.

Thanks a lot for your feedback. I like your take on this. I agree that the Scharfrichter’s main purpose was to execute murderers and enemies to the throne (by axe or sword, unlike the Büttel who usually used other methods like hanging), but I had to look it up when I saw the Norwegian card title, as I too disagreed with the translators a bit. I learnt a lot, and I feel that the card name is actually very fitting after all. They’re mostly known for their executions, that’s true, but that was only a part of their job. You can only execute so many, you know. A lot of their work, in Norway at least, included interrogation and/or branding of criminals and cutting off of hands/fingers and the like. I don’t know if German Scharfrichters did the same, but in Norway, I think they could qualify as Torturers. Besides, the name is evocative (and we frankly have few alternative words in Norwegian).

As for Renkesmed: Like you said, the name implies smithing in a figurative sense, as they kind of forge chains of rumors and gossip. As they draw when a lot is going on (3+ actions in the same round), I think it’s kind of appropriate. They need help from other Conspirators to make solid chains, so a single such ‘smith’ shouldn’t draw a lot. I like the fact that with more things going on in your kingdom, the conspiracies thrive.

I guess my main point is that they’ve found old-fashioned words that have actually been used a lot in Norway, and to me at least, they’re dramatic and evocative.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #237 on: April 26, 2018, 02:55:17 am »
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Hm, a Renkesmed I would expect to spread rumours and gossip, whereas a Conspirator would be someone I would expect to be very silent about the matter connected with his clandestine plans.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #238 on: April 26, 2018, 11:24:55 am »
+1

Hm, a Renkesmed I would expect to spread rumours and gossip, whereas a Conspirator would be someone I would expect to be very silent about the matter connected with his clandestine plans.

"Renkesmed" translates to "schemer, intriguer", so it's pretty accurate. A synonym in Norwegien is "intrigemaker". It also has a connotation of spreading rumors in order to further one's plans, but doing so secretly, which is what Oyvind is talking about. I don't know if that connotation is specifically Norwegian and not English/American, but I remember the word "renkesmed" being used that way when I heard it more (some decades ago - it's pretty outdated now).

Oyvind

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Re: Translations
« Reply #239 on: April 26, 2018, 04:55:44 pm »
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Hm, a Renkesmed I would expect to spread rumours and gossip, whereas a Conspirator would be someone I would expect to be very silent about the matter connected with his clandestine plans.

"Renkesmed" translates to "schemer, intriguer", so it's pretty accurate. A synonym in Norwegien is "intrigemaker". It also has a connotation of spreading rumors in order to further one's plans, but doing so secretly, which is what Oyvind is talking about. I don't know if that connotation is specifically Norwegian and not English/American, but I remember the word "renkesmed" being used that way when I heard it more (some decades ago - it's pretty outdated now).

Most definitely. These are covert operations, and they have a very specific purpose for the Renkesmed.
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #240 on: May 22, 2018, 01:03:13 pm »
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Are there any Portuguese speakers here?  I can't seem to find Portuguese translations anywhere, though they seem to have done the 2nd editions of Base and Intrigue.
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