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Author Topic: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!  (Read 27771 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2012, 02:58:37 pm »
+3

I don't like comparisons to Fool's Gold.  Fool's Gold is one of the most poorly designed cards in Dominion.  It stacks with itself in an FBI way.  Minion is a better model for this challenge.

Criticisms that a card is weaker than Fool's Gold reads to me like criticisms that a nonterminal drawer is stronger than Scout.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 03:01:08 pm by popsofctown »
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2012, 08:12:29 pm »
0

For a reminder, here are the objectives to this contest:

Quote
Create a card that synergizes or combos with itself in such a way that playing the card might be more effective or powerful when prior copies of the card have already been played.

Note that this definition of self-synergy is a distinct concept from a card that is merely helpful to play in multiples.  For example, playing multiple Villages might be a good idea, because you can get a lot of +Actions that way.  But playing one Village doesn't generally enable you to play another to better effect.

I will likely critique a card for bad self-synergy if I don't think it improves if a copy of it has previously been played.

Also, I wasn't really a fan of cards that explicitly self-synergize by saying "+1 Something for every [This Card] you have in play". These cards usually mean you have to go all-out for them, or ignore them. The only official card I can think of like this is Fool's Gold, which I'm not a huge fan of anyway.

Hydrogen
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one: Draw up to 6 cards, OR +$2 and discard two cards.

As mentioned, this is a lot like Archivist. It is a little weird that you would draw up to 6 after getting a generic +1 Card. It's probably fine, but may be a bit strong for $4. Even straight up "+1 Card, +1 Action, +$2, discard 2 cards" is probably pretty strong for $4.

Helium
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+1 Card for every three action cards in play (including this).
+$1 for every four action cards in play (including this).
If you have twelve or more action cards in play (including this), trash this.

I expect to see a lot of these "for every X action cards you have in play" cards in this challenge - we'll see! I don't know if it is intentional or a mistake, but this card will register other players' Duration cards as-written, which is probably bad. This is a card that is initially very bad, but gets good-ish if it is your 4th card in play, and very good after 6. Actually, to tell the truth, this has FBI - it is very weak in many decks, but throw in a few easily spammed cantrips and this gets ridiculous. I think the Duration problem is a big one, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Lithium
$5 - Action
+1 Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a treasure putting it into your hand.
For every differently named treasure card in your hand, choose either +$1 or +1 Card.

This card has wording issues to start. First, you should reveal Treasures from your hand or your whole hand. Also, it doesn't tell you what to do with the other revealed cards, and the first sentence is a run-on. See Adventurer's wording to make the wording here better.

As for the actual mechanics of the card, it is probably too strong, especially with any decent Copper trashing. It also doesn't seem to fit the challenge theme that well.

Beryllium
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
If you have played [This Card] two or more times this turn, +1 Card.
If you have played it three or more times this turn, +$1.
If you have played it four or more times this turn, +1 Buy.
If you have played it five or more times this turn, +1 VP.

Haven't we seen this (or a variant) in some other challenge? I wasn't a big fan then, and am not now either. It is probably too strong; plus, all that text is messy and ugly.

Boron
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: gain an Attack card from the supply; or all other players gain a Curse.
--
When you play this you may reveal Attack cards from your hand. +$1 for each revealed Attack card.

I don't think this card improves if a copy has already been played. It may benefit if you have multiple copies in-hand when you play it, but that's not the objective of this challenge. Either way, this is probably way too strong, especially with just about any other Attack card on the board. Even with Spy - it's a no-draw-Witch until Curses run out, and then gets you a Spy with every play.

Carbon
$3 - Action-Duration
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the bottom three cards of your deck. Put one of them on top of your deck
At the start of your next turn you may discard your hand, if you do +4 Cards.

This card stacks sort of like Pearl Diver, except better - it satisfies the challenge objective fine for me. The main part is a better Pearl Diver, and the Duration part is fine here too. Combined, it may be a bit strong for $3, but probably not. I like it!

Nitrogen
$4 - Action
Choose one: +1 Card, +1 Action; or +$1, +$1 for each [This Card] you have in play (counting this), +1 Buy.

So, this can be a Woodcutter, or something to beef up future Nitrogens? It's probably fine, but is a little boring and weak.

Oxygen
$3 - Action
+1 Action
+$1
Draw 1 card and discard 2 cards, OR draw up to 5 cards.

This is probably fine. Actually, the second option if you play it as the first card of your hand is a Peddler, which is generally considered a $4 card. So, it may be a bit too strong for $3, but may be fine.

Fluorine
$4 - Action
+1 Action
Set aside the top card of your deck face-down on your [This Card] mat. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the number of cards on your mat.
You may not look at the set-aside cards. Discard the set aside cards at the end of your turn.

I like it! Basically, is a +1 Action weak Workshop with your first play, and can gain a 1 better card with every play that turn. It's a little weird that cards from your deck are used to keep track of it - if there's a mat, why not just put tokens on it? I guess maybe you could use it for filtering if you know your top card? Also, this makes it weaker in draw-your-deck engines, since you have to have cards to sacrifice to your mat for the turn - but maybe that drawback is warranted to not make this too powerful? Anyway, I like it, weird mat interaction and all!

Neon
$5 - Action-Reaction
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard a card.
--
If you discard this card from your hand other than during a Clean-Up phase, draw a card and place this on top of your deck.

So, I don't think this really fits the challenge objective of "card is better if another copy was played earlier this turn". It's better if you have one in your hand when you play it, but the second time you play it, it isn't better than the first time. So, I won't be voting for it here. That said, I think it's an interesting card - it's a weak Lab, but if you discard it, it gives you an extra card (sort of like Lab). It is unclear what would happen if you discard this to a "discard down to" type Attack - say, Militia. You discard 1 card, then this, then do its reaction, did you discard down to 3 cards even if you have 4 now? Or do you have to discard again? Even worse if you discard and reveal 2 of these! Also, needs wording more like Tunnel - should say "you may reveal it" somewhere in there to be a Reaction.

Sodium
$3 - Action
Choose one: +1 Action per [This Card] in play (including this card), +1 Card; or +$1 per [This Card] in play (including this card), +1 Buy.

Definitely stronger than Nitrogen, especially at $3. The thing about this card is, you either have to really invest in them or not at all - buying 1 or 2 is just awful. I guess that's sort of like Fool's Gold, but I'm not sure Sodium makes up for that fact. It's probably fine, and on the weaker side of balanced, but I'm not intrigued.

Magnesium
$4 - Action
+1 Action
Reveal a card from your deck for each copy of [This Card] you have in play (including this), and one more. Put one of the revealed cards into your hand; discard any number of other revealed cards; put the rest on the bottom of your deck.
--
When you clean this up, if you did not play another [This Card] this turn, put this on top of your deck.

This is pretty strong for a sifter, even if you only play 1, but definitely if you play multiples. Definitely stronger than Warehouse, maybe stronger than Cartographer. The card is probably fine, but I'm uncomfortable with it at $4 without major playtesting.

Aluminum
$2 - Action-Duration
For each copy of [This Card] you have in play, including this one, choose one: $1, +1 Card, or +1 Action.  The choices may be the same or different.
At the start of your next turn: $1.

The duration is cute and obviously makes this card more powerful. Third play can be a Laboratory - probably too powerful for $2. Interesting anyway, I sort of like it at $3.

Silicon
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Discard a card.
Each other player draws and discards a card.
Reveal your hand. If you did not reveal any [This Card], return this to the supply.

Umm, what? I think you combined the challenges and failed at both. First of all, I think this doesn't fit the theme of playing a second time being better. Second, this has all sorts of FBI. All sorts. I don't know if it is balanced, but I'm guessing no.

Phosphorus
$3 - Action
Reveal any number of Silver cards from your hand. +1 Action for each Silver revealed. Then, +2 Cards.

The self-synergy here is really weak. I guess, if you have Silvers the first time, you'll have more the second time? Still, not really synergy, more like... silvergy. Anyway, the card itself is probably actually pretty strong for $3 - as long as you have 1 Silver, you get a Lab, and more than 1 is at least as good as second-level City. Maybe at $4 this would be decent, but I'm not even sure then.

Sulfur
$4 - Action
All cards cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
You may gain a card costing up to $3.

I can definitely see the self-synergy here. First play it's basically a Workshop with a Bridge effect for your buys. It's not the most creative card, but I don't see anything broken about it, and do like the synergy. I was originally thinking you would need +Buy for a mega turn, but if you play KC-KC-Sulfer-Sulfer-Sulfer, by the 5th Sulfer play you can gain a Province, so this will gain you 4 Provinces plus 1 guaranteed from your normal buy. So, it's probably about as easy to mega turn as Bridge, for better or worse. Anyway, it's probably fine, and I sort of like it.

Chlorine
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Draw until you have 5 cards in hand, then draw a card, revealing the drawn cards. Set aside one of the revealed cards and discard the rest.
You may put the set aside card into your hand at any time before the Clean-up phase this turn. If you do not, discard it.

I think the wording here needs work. In my interpretation, it would be something like:

"Reveal cards until the total number of revealed cards and cards in your hand is at least 5, then reveal 1 more card. Set aside one of the revealed cards and discard the rest."

So, basically, this allows you to play multiple of these without increasing your handsize, and then draw the set-asside cards. The synergy comes in because playing one decreases your handsize so that the next one you play can reveal more cards. Yes, there's synergy there. I think the card is fine (with better wording), but is actually going to play very similar to Sage. I'm not a big fan of the "set aside + put it in your hand whenever" mechanic, and the wording is worrysome.

Argon
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash this and another card from your hand. If you trash this, and have no cards in hand, the player to your left reveals his or her hand. Gain 4 non-Victory cards costing at most $6 which were not revealed.

Another card that could have been in the one-shot challenge. I'm going to say that even though this is one-shot, it is Way Too Strong (TM) for $2. It is, believe it or not, pretty easy to get down to no cards in your hand on many boards. So, this card could basically get you 4 Goons or Golds just for getting down to 0 cards in-hand - oh wait, it also gives you +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$1, and lets you trash another junk card? This is incredibly OP. Especially so since, yes, it does synergize with itself.

Potassium
$5 - Action-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Reveal a card from your hand, if it is an...
Action card, +2 Actions
Treasure card, +$2
Victory card, +2 Cards
You may trash the revealed card.

Formatting things: Action part goes on top of Action-VP cards (see Nobles). This card synergizes if you have one in hand when you play it, but I don't think when you play a second. So, pass since it doesn't fit the objective. About the card itself, I think it is probably better than Nobles at a lower price. Sure, you might not always be able to draw cards, and the number of cards is fewer, but it combos with multi-type cards very well. Plus, you can use it to trash junk. So, this card would be hard to price as-is, since it's probably better than Nobles. Maybe make it worth 1VP, and then it might be correctly priced at $5 or $6.

Calcium
$5 - Action
Discard any number of cards from your hand.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Reveal your hand. For each [This Card] in it, +1 Action.

Again, this self-combos when in-hand, but not for a second or third playing of it. So, zero points for this challenge's objective. This card is pretty strong for $5, but it's hard to tell how strong without testing. Probably has FBI.

Titanium
$5 - Action-Attack-Reaction
+1 Card
Each other player discards a card.
You may return up to two [This Card] tokens to its supply. Each other player discards an additional card per token returned.
Gain a [This Card] token.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may return a [This Card] token to its supply and discard this, then at the start of your next turn, +1 Card. You may instead trash this card if you do not return a [This Card] token to its supply, if you do, gain a [This Card] token.
If you do either, you are unaffected by that Attack.

Holy fortress Batman, this card is complex. There are definitely FBI going on here. I'll give it one thing - I think there's the right kind of synergy on this card. Besides that, this card has too much going on for almost anyone to wrap their mind around. Plus, I'm pretty sure it's broken in one or more ways - it seems too easy to make your opponents discard all their cards with some sort of KC-Titanium shenanigans.

Chromium
$5 - Action
+1 Action
When this is in play each time you draw a card remove a token from your [This Card] mat if possible, or instead of drawing a card you may place a token on your [This Card] mat.  During this or another turn you may redeem your mat's tokens for a card equal to the number of tokens on your mat.
+1 Card

I think this makes it so you can save up +Cards to gain an equivalently priced card? Maybe? There are lots of wording issues here to work out, so I won't even go into them. Also lots of FBI, as well as "draw up to X" card issues. So, lots of issues. Does it self-synergize? I guess so, but only barely, since any other +Card also synergizes with it.

Manganese
$4 - Action
+2 Actions
The player to your left chooses a non-empty kingdom card supply pile that you have not gained a card from this turn.  Gain a copy of that card.

Ha! I like it! Short, sweet, and simple. Plus, it self-synergizes nicely in a way that we haven't seen yet in this challenge or official cards. Is it too good on some boards? Maybe? Like, in the rare case where almost all of the cards are spectacular? It's hard to tell, but I'm guessing that it is balanced fine at $4. Maybe it would be better with only +1 Action, but it's probably ok. It would be really fun on boards with lots-o-parts engines. There should probably be a rules clarification about what happens if you have gained every kingdom card that turn already (maybe you KCed a bunch of these). Not that that's a big deal at all, but something should be said. Anyway, good job on this card, it's a nice one!

Iron
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
During your buy phase, if you had at least three unused actions in your action phase, +$2.

I don't know how I feel about this. It's probably hard to hit 3 unused actions in a kingdom where this is your only Village, but maybe too easy in some others? And when this is activated, it's pretty great. Not super great (I mean, only $1 more than Bazaar). So, anyway, this would be really good on some boards, and meh on others - I think there's some FBI here, though not too much. Anyway, may be balanced, and is sort of interesting and self-synergizing.

Cobalt
$2 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Card; or +$1 for each [This Card] you have in play (including this one).

Another one of these - like Nitrogen and Sodium. It's probably fine, though not super exciting.

Nickel
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1 for each [This Card] token on your mat
You may trash a card from your hand.  If you do, gain a token on your [This Card] mat.
--
When you discard this from play, choose one: gain a Copper, or return all [This Card] tokens to the supply.

What I mean what. Man, this card is broken-strong. At $3, you could buy tons of these, and then always gain Coppers. Sure, you have Coppers, but you can easily make this give +$8 without trying hard. Plus, it helps trim your deck of those Coppers? Definitely broken.

Zinc
$4 - Action-Looter
Choose one: +2 Actions and trash a card from your hand; or gain a Ruins and draw until you have 7 cards in hand.

This card is in the Minion-Archivist vein, but probably different enough - it doesn't give +$, so it needs support. It would require you to own DA to play with it. And we haven't really seen many Looters yet, so it's hard to tell at this point if it's balanced or not. Basically, a no-draw Village trasher, or draw to 7 but gain a Ruins. It's probably balanced, and definitely self-synergizes.

Gallium
$5 - Action
Choose one: +$1; or +1 Card; or +1 Buy.
Choose one: Each other player gains a Curse; or reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a [This Card].  Put it in your hand and discard the other cards.
You may play a [This Card] from your hand.

Isn't this an Attack card? It's pretty strong to be able to chain these if you have a bunch, though I guess all you'll usually gain is $1 or 1 card each time. It's probably weaker than Witch (which is good, because not many cards can be stronger and balanced). Since we already have a Curser, I'll pass.

Arsenic
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+$1
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put all copies of this card into your hand. Discard the rest.

Is this better than Scout? Might just be. Basically, it' a Copper that can find more copies of itself. I think the self-synergy is really weak here at best. Still, it's probably balanced and a bit interesting. Actually, after further review, I didn't realize you have to discard the other revealed cards instead of putting them back. I don't like that at all - you have to get rid of your good cards to find more crappy Arsenics!? That's no fun.

Bromine
$5 - Action
+1 Action
If you have trashed a Card this turn, +3 cards, +$1. Otherwise, trash 2 cards from your hand.

I really think this is too strong. Non-terminal trasher that can turn into Super Lab Plus Money? That's really good. It might work if it were +2 Cards instead, but there are definitely FBI even with that. It needs some playtesting to even out. (To be fair, I like the interaction with Rats :D )

Krypton
$2 - Treasure
Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
Worth $2 per card from hand you put on top of your deck this turn.

At first I was like, "how are you going to keep track of the number of cards you put on your deck this turn", and then I was like, "the same way you keep track of Actions and money, silly pants". Definitely self-synergy here. I really like how it keeps itself in check - if you can't put a card on top of your deck, you don't get the $. I think interactions with other cards are fine - most other cards don't topdeck from hand, or if they do then it's not on your turn. Is it too strong? Maybe? If you have 2 of these in a hand of at least 4 cards, you can buy a Province - that's pretty strong for 2 cards that cost $2. (Am I computing that right? Lets see - you play 2 Kryptons, topdeck 2 cards, making each Krypton worth $4 - so, yes). So, I think it's a bit strong - maybe it would be better to always give $1, plus $1 per topdecked card this turn. It's a solid concept though, so good job there. EDIT: I was corrected in that the first Krypton played cannot gain worth if a Krypton played later in the turn also discards a card. So, Krypton 1 -> $2, Krypton 2 -> $4, Krypton 3 -> $6. So, 2 is worth $6, 3 are worth $12 (if you have 3 cards to top-deck). Even though this is a lot of money, it most likely hurts your next turn with all the top-decked cards. So, I think this is probably balanced, and a fun card! It may be rushable, similar to Fool's Gold, but is probably less strong than Fool's Gold because of the top-decking.

Cadmium
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Action
+$1
At the start of your next turn, draw as many cards as you have [This Card] in play. Discard down to 6 cards in hand.

So, it's sort of like Caravan that gets stronger if you've played more Cadmiums? If you have 1 in play, draw 1 card. 2 draws 4. 3 draws 9. So, squared. But, you then have to discard down to 6 cards. If you have more than 1 of these in play, it gives you good sifting - and 3 or more is ridonkydonk sifting. I'd guess this is slightly less powerful than Caravan, but not by too much. It's probably fine, but doesn't get me too excited.

After reading others' comments, I realize that these would probably take effect sequentially instead of all at once. So, you play 3, and you get three times to draw 3 and discard down to 6. I don't know if this is what is intended, but that's how it reads if taken literally.

Tin
$5 - Action
Choose one: Draw until you have 6 cards in hand; or: +2 Actions, +$1, +1 Buy.

Taken straight-up, the draw option is very weak without support - which is where choice 2 comes in. The second choice is like a gimped Festival, like the first option is a gimped Library. The thing is, you'd want a lot of these to get any decent use out of them, but they cost $5 so that's hard. Let's say you plat 2 - you end up with 1 Action, $1, 1 extra Buy, and a 6 card hand. That's a lot like playing a Labratory then a Market, or a Festival then a Smithy (though losing $1). So, it's probably fine, but maybe on the weak side.

Iodine
$3 - Action
+$1
+1 VP
You may play a [This Card] from your hand.

So, a gimped Monument with a Cultist chainer effect? Probably fine, sort of boring, may have FBI, pass. (Actually, this may be much worse than Monument for non-ending +VP games; if you can get 4 of these and a trasher as your whole hand, you get an easy 4VP every turn. Pass.)

Xenon
$3 - Action
For every [This Card] you have in play (including this), you may choose one (no option may be taken more than twice):
+1 Action, +1 Card, +$1, +1 Buy, trash a card from your hand.

This may be too strong, since it gives you the trashing you need to get a thin deck, plus anything else you need to. Granted, the first you play is gimped, and the second you play is little better than a Pawn. But, the third can be just about whatever you want, including Lab, Village, and Peddler. So, I'm going to say too strong and too much AP.

Barium
$4 - Action
+1 Action
Name a cost. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the cards with the same cost as you named in your hand. Put the others on top in any order.

I guess there's some self-synergy if you know your top cards and can predict what cost to name with future plays, so that's fine. This will be decent near the beginning (name $0), and is obviously better with multiple plays. I don't see anything broken or too weak, and I sort of like it, so... good! I wonder if there is a Barium + Coppers + Coppersmith possibility here? That would be fun!

Tungsten
$6 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
Discard 2 cards.
If this is the first [This Card] you've played this turn, each other player discards any number of cards from their hand and draws until they have 5 cards.  Otherwise, each other player discards a card from their hand.

Nothing stopping you from pinning your opponents by playing 6 of these every turn (likely with KC-KC-Tungsten-Tungsten-whatever). So, no.

Mercury
$3 - Action
Gain a card costing up to $3 per [This Card] in play, counting this.

First -> $3, second -> $6, third ->$9? I guess it's probably ok. Of course, this card is near worthless on boards without Villages. I'd say too much FBI - usually weak, but sometimes too strong.

Lead
$5 - Action
Choose One: +3 Cards; or +3 Actions.

Pretty sure I've seen it before. Too boring. +3 Actions is, in reality, a lot like +2 Actions, which makes this basically Nobles. Probably is weak too.

Radon
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
You may convert 2 Actions, 2 Buys, or 1 Action and 1 Buy into $1.
You may convert $1 into 2 Actions, 2 Buys, or 1 Action and 1 Buy.
(You cannot go below 0 Actions or 0 Buys.)

I don't like this "convert" concept - it's not a thing, and isn't well-defined. Just lay out all the options. Plus, this is way confusing, and way AP prone.

Radium
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
Trash a card from your hand. If that card costs $3 or more: +1 Action.

Not really any self-synergy (of the right kind) here. It's probably fine, though may be too strong in BM. Pass because no self-synergy.

Uranium
$5 - Action
+3 Actions
+1 Buy
+$5
-$1 per card in your hand, to a minimum of $0.

I guess I see the self-synergy - if you've played this before, you probably have fewer cards? I dunno, this just screams of FBI without major playtesting. Remember: Poor House was majorly playtested, yet it doesn't look half as crazy as this card. Pass.

Plutonium
$2P - Action
+2 Cards
+$1
Return a card from your hand to the Supply and gain a card costing up to as much as it, putting it into your hand.
You may play a [This Card] from your hand.

What's up with all the Cultist copycats? I don't really like Cultist, don't really like these. Plus, with the $2P cost, how often will you likely really have more to play? The returning a card to supply and getting one back is sort of chincy, I think it will often be used to put back and gain the same card. Plus, I have no idea how balanced this is - all sorts of FBI here.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 09:17:40 am by Schneau »
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2012, 05:19:14 am »
0

... so... did you actually like any cards this time around, Schneau?
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2012, 08:12:07 am »
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... so... did you actually like any cards this time around, Schneau?

To tell the truth, not as many as usual! I voted for about half as many cards as I usually do. There were actually quite a few cards that I liked, but felt that they didn't meet the objective of the challenge. So, those cards may have gotten votes on a different challenge. Also, most of the cards that are self-referential ("for every [This Card] you have in play") weren't very appealing to me - most of them seamed like they would have to be the focus of a strategy, and couldn't ever be just sidekick cards.
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2012, 08:25:19 am »
+1


Krypton
$2 - Treasure
Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
Worth $2 per card from hand you put on top of your deck this turn.

At first I was like, "how are you going to keep track of the number of cards you put on your deck this turn", and then I was like, "the same way you keep track of Actions and money, silly pants". Definitely self-synergy here. I really like how it keeps itself in check - if you can't put a card on top of your deck, you don't get the $. I think interactions with other cards are fine - most other cards don't topdeck from hand, or if they do then it's not on your turn. Is it too strong? Maybe? If you have 2 of these in a hand of at least 4 cards, you can buy a Province - that's pretty strong for 2 cards that cost $2. (Am I computing that right? Lets see - you play 2 Kryptons, topdeck 2 cards, making each Krypton worth $4 - so, yes). So, I think it's a bit strong - maybe it would be better to always give $1, plus $1 per topdecked card this turn. It's a solid concept though, so good job there.

Pretty sure that's the wrong interpretation -- compare to Bank.

I'd read this as:

1. Topdeck a card with Krypton.
2. Krypton is worth $2.
3. Topdeck a card with Krypton.
4. Krypton is worth $4.
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2012, 09:13:12 am »
0


Krypton
$2 - Treasure
Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
Worth $2 per card from hand you put on top of your deck this turn.

At first I was like, "how are you going to keep track of the number of cards you put on your deck this turn", and then I was like, "the same way you keep track of Actions and money, silly pants". Definitely self-synergy here. I really like how it keeps itself in check - if you can't put a card on top of your deck, you don't get the $. I think interactions with other cards are fine - most other cards don't topdeck from hand, or if they do then it's not on your turn. Is it too strong? Maybe? If you have 2 of these in a hand of at least 4 cards, you can buy a Province - that's pretty strong for 2 cards that cost $2. (Am I computing that right? Lets see - you play 2 Kryptons, topdeck 2 cards, making each Krypton worth $4 - so, yes). So, I think it's a bit strong - maybe it would be better to always give $1, plus $1 per topdecked card this turn. It's a solid concept though, so good job there.

Pretty sure that's the wrong interpretation -- compare to Bank.

I'd read this as:

1. Topdeck a card with Krypton.
2. Krypton is worth $2.
3. Topdeck a card with Krypton.
4. Krypton is worth $4.

I was reading it that the worth wasn't determined until all cards had been played, but now I think you are correct. But, note that Bank (as well as all other Treasures with on-play effects) says "When you play this...". So, this card should be changed to read, "When you play this, put a card from your hand on top of your deck. It is worth $2 per card from hand you put on top of your deck this turn."

I will change my review accordingly.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2012, 11:08:53 am »
0

Quote
Uranium
$5 - Action
+3 Actions
+1 Buy
+$5
-$1 per card in your hand, to a minimum of $0.
Play this by itself or with 1 action, and it is a copper. Play this, then a terminal silver, and then another, and each one is a silver. Play a sifter, then this, then a terminal silver, then another this, and each one is a gold. It takes too much effort to make this good, except in the case of discard attacks or Vault, when this becomes amazing.

Well, sure, if the card also didn't have +3 Actions and +1 Buy.... For example, Festival is not a Silver. This card is in the Festival family. Uranium+Horse Traders+Uranium is good. Oasis+Uranium is good. It would also be good in Library style engines and against discard attacks. The self-synergy is not quite as game dominating in this card as in others. That's a plus to me. It would be a little silly to build a one-card strategy around this card's self-synergy. But if anything, the card seems a little strong overall.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 11:11:40 am by Polk5440 »
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2012, 03:04:14 pm »
+1

My comments. Warning: My likes are limited for this set of cards.

For a reminder, here are the objectives to this contest:

Quote
Create a card that synergizes or combos with itself in such a way that playing the card might be more effective or powerful when prior copies of the card have already been played.

Note that this definition of self-synergy is a distinct concept from a card that is merely helpful to play in multiples.  For example, playing multiple Villages might be a good idea, because you can get a lot of +Actions that way.  But playing one Village doesn't generally enable you to play another to better effect.

I will likely critique a card for bad self-synergy if I don't think it improves if a copy of it has previously been played.

Also, I wasn't really a fan of cards that explicitly self-synergize by saying "+1 Something for every [This Card] you have in play". These cards usually mean you have to go all-out for them, or ignore them. The only official card I can think of like this is Fool's Gold, which I'm not a huge fan of anyway.

I agree with this whole-heartedly. I would add that I am leery of balance of the cards that are "+1 Something for every [this other card] you have in play." I don't really know how to evaluate them well. For these reasons, these cards are out for me: Helium, Beryllium, Sodium, Magnesium, Aluminum, Potassium (also, seems strong), Cobalt, Cadmium, Xenon, Tungsten, and Mercury.

Not enough on-play self-synergy or Cultist-style self-synergy (I don't like it): Boron (definitely not on-play self-synergy), Nitrogen, Neon, Potassium, Gallium (also, don't like the attack itself), Iodine, and Radium (also, just give me Stables instead, please).

These cards aren't my cup of tea because of uninteresting or broken mat and token shenanigans: Fluorine, Titanium, Chromium, and Nickel (seems to strong).

Villages and Festivals

I think the most promising cards are in this category.

Phosphorus is a neat idea, but its self-synergy is pretty uninteresting.

Quote
Manganese
$4 - Action
+2 Actions
The player to your left chooses a non-empty kingdom card supply pile that you have not gained a card from this turn.  Gain a copy of that card.

Interesting idea for self-synergy! Too bad my first thought is that this probably will be an unplayable card at $4 on most boards and too powerful on the rest. First play: Gain Manganese. Second play: Gain Pearl Diver. Third Play: Gain Cellar. Or maybe have them gain a Chapel every turn.... Too often this might be an attack on yourself!

Quote
Iron
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
During your buy phase, if you had at least three unused actions in your action phase, +$2.

Now this card I like! Seems kind of strong, though, and might be too good as a one-card strategy. I am a little unsure of the intent, though. Did the author intend each Iron in play to give the bonus when you have unused actions in the buy phase (so you play two Irons and get +$4 in buy phase, which seems a bit much), or give $2 total? If the later is the case, I would like this card even more, and you could probably get away with it costing $4. 

Interesting approach to self-synergy.  I like it.  I wish it cost $4 and gave +$1 instead.  Set needs cheaper cards! :P

That would be okay, too.

Quote
Zinc
$4 - Action-Looter
Choose one: +2 Actions and trash a card from your hand; or gain a Ruins and draw until you have 7 cards in hand.

Seems fun. I am a little sad it's so Dark Ages specific.

Quote
Tin
$5 - Action
Choose one: Draw until you have 6 cards in hand; or: +2 Actions, +$1, +1 Buy.

Seems okay. The set could do with a Festival-like card. Kind of weak, though. Maybe it would be okay at $4?

Lead is too similar to Nobles.

Quote
Uranium
$5 - Action
+3 Actions
+1 Buy
+$5
-$1 per card in your hand, to a minimum of $0.

Tough to think about whether it's balanced right, but I think the set could do with a Festival-like card. I like it.


Other Interesting and Not-So-Interesting Cards

As far as Lithium goes, what I like about the card is the last line giving coin or card for each differently named Treasure in your hand. But the +coin for differently named Treasure is better implemented in DA's Forager. So I don't think I can vote for this.

Carbon is okay -- but I'm not nearly as excited about it as others. "A better Pearl Diver"
 is not a strong tag line, to me. Also, there should be some line about putting cards back in any order (I assume the other two go back on the bottom since it's not specified). Not the most exciting synergy, either.


Quote
Oxygen
$3 - Action
+1 Action
+$1
Draw 1 card and discard 2 cards, OR draw up to 5 cards.

I like this card. It would be much better priced at $4, but that's an easy change to make. I prefer this card to Hydrogen. It is a shame they are both so similar to Archivist. Is there play testing data from when Archivist was on Isotropic? Did it turn out okay as a $5?

Quote
Silicon
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Discard a card.
Each other player draws and discards a card.
Reveal your hand. If you did not reveal any [This Card], return this to the supply.

I was with you until the last line. The card should be trashed, not returned to the supply, and I feel the revealing of your hand is really unnecessary. Too much hand revealing, and we may as well play with open hands. I would like it a lot better if the last line was something like "You may reveal a [This Card] from your hand. If you don't, trash this card." But even then, I don't think I am up for a Stables-like synergy in this category. Calcium has unnecessary revealing that bugs me, too. Don't care for that card, either.

Quote
Sulfur
$4 - Action
All cards cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
You may gain a card costing up to $3.

I am not liking this. Bridge x Workshop? WHY? This is a card that looks okay on paper but would be difficult to play and its best use would not play a whole lot differently than Bridge. When there is plus buy in the kingdom, you get the plus buy and Sulfur and you are trying a Bridge-Workshop/Ironworks combo. King's Court? Would play like KC-Bridge without the game ending killer combo. I don't see the new excitement here. There's better potential for new synergies in other cards.

I do not like the mechanic on Chlorine at all.

Argon seems better suited to be in the one-shot category. I don't like the self-synergy on it or the price.

Arsenic: A Copper that cycles a little bit of your deck and may find itself....Come on, we can do better than that for a $2 card, right?

Quote
Bromine
$5 - Action
+1 Action
If you have trashed a Card this turn, +3 cards, +$1. Otherwise, trash 2 cards from your hand.

This is pretty slick. I like the idea, but it may not be the best addition to the set.

Krypton seems too strong. As much as I like Treasure, this one is not for me.

Radon has a too much AP potential.

As much as I dislike Potion cards, I kind of like Plutonium. It would be good for a Potion-themed set, which I really hope this one isn't turning into.


I submitted a card to the contest.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2012, 12:51:54 pm »
+1

The results are in!  As a reminder, here was the objective for this challenge:

Quote
Create a card that synergizes or combos with itself in such a way that playing the card might be more effective or powerful when prior copies of the card have already been played.

Because self-synergy is difficult to define in black and white terms, no card will be refused eligibility.  However, voters will be charged with judging not just card quality but their conformance to the spirit of this objective as described above.

Note that this definition of self-synergy is a distinct concept from a card that is merely helpful to play in multiples.  For example, playing multiple Villages might be a good idea, because you can get a lot of +Actions that way.  But playing one Village doesn't generally enable you to play another to better effect.

For this challenge, no rules clarifications are permitted.  This is to avoid a situation where a rules clarification may suggest a non-obvious self-synergetic use for the card and leave voters to guess about a non-obvious self-synergetic use for other cards.  (However, there is no reason self-synergy for any or all of the submitted cards can't be discussed after the ballot is announced, including by the authors of the cards.)

My own contribution would have been Archivist, a card some of you are already familiar with from past threads and its brief foray on Isotropic.  It remains a favorite of mine in my home games.

Archivist
$5 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one:  Draw up to 6 cards in hand; or +$1 and discard one or more cards from your hand.


That said, it probably doesn't fit very well in the set as it exists so far.  There are already plenty of $5 cards and drawing cards.  But let's see what card did make the set....


#1 - Salesman by dnkywin with 20 points (Sulfur)
$4 - Action
All cards cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
You may gain a card costing up to $3.


dnkywin won with this Workshop-with-a-bonus card that gets better and better the more you play it.  Workshop itself can do some fancy things with, say, a chain of Highways, but it's tricky.  This card has the cost-reduction built into it.  You probably still don't want it without good $4's on the board, because you won't get to play multiples of these all the time, but if you can manage it sometimes, this could be a crafty little power move.

The runners-up:


#2 - Recruiter by yuma with 17 points (Boron)
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: gain an Attack card from the supply; or all other players gain a Curse.
--
When you play this you may reveal Attack cards from your hand. +$1 for each revealed Attack card.

#3 (tie) - Carnival by Polk5440 with 11 points (Uranium)
$5 - Action
+3 Actions
+1 Buy
+$5
-$1 per card in your hand, to a minimum of $0.

#3 (tie) - Broker by nopawnsintended with 11 points (Oxygen)
$3 - Action
+1 Action
+$1
Draw 1 card and discard 2 cards, OR draw up to 5 cards.

#5 (tie) - Mylaptopislowonbattery by popsofctown with 10 points (Manganese)
$4 - Action
+2 Actions
The player to your left chooses a non-empty kingdom card supply pile that you have not gained a card from this turn.  Gain a copy of that card.

#5 (tie) - Telescope by Michaelf7777777 with 10 points (Carbon)
$3 - Action-Duration
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the bottom three cards of your deck. Put one of them on top of your deck
At the start of your next turn you may discard your hand, if you do +4 Cards.

#7 - Prairie Village by ashersky with 9 points (Iron)
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
During your buy phase, if you had at least three unused actions in your action phase, +$2.

#8 (tie) - Drunkard by jamespotter with 8 points (Bromine)
$5 - Action
+1 Action
If you have trashed a Card this turn, +3 cards, +$1. Otherwise, trash 2 cards from your hand.

#8 (tie) - Wildfire by Archetype with 8 points (Arsenic)
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+$1
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put all copies of this card into your hand. Discard the rest.

#10 (tie) - Lumber Mill by sitnaltax with 7 points (Nitrogen)
$4 - Action
Choose one: +1 Card, +1 Action; or +$1, +$1 for each Lumber Mill you have in play (counting this), +1 Buy.

#10 (tie) - Lottery by Tdog with 7 points (Barium)
$4 - Action
+1 Action
Name a cost. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the cards with the same cost as you named in your hand. Put the others on top in any order.

#12 (tie) - Book Cart by Schneau with 6 points (Zinc)
$4 - Action-Looter
Choose one: +2 Actions and trash a card from your hand; or gain a Ruins and draw until you have 7 cards in hand.

#12 (tie) - Acrobat by Saucery with 6 points (Neon)
$5 - Action-Reaction
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard a card.
--
If you discard this card from your hand other than during a Clean-Up phase, draw a card and place this on top of your deck.

#12 (tie) - Maneuverer by Schlippy with 6 points (Cadmium)
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Action
+$1
At the start of your next turn, draw as many cards as you have Maneuverer in play. Discard down to 6 cards in hand.

#15 (tie) - Kolkhoz by Qvist with 5 points (Tin)
$5 - Action
Choose one: Draw until you have 6 cards in hand; or: +2 Actions, +$1, +1 Buy.

#15 (tie) - Town Musician by eHalcyon with 5 points (Sodium)
$3 - Action
Choose one: +1 Action per Town Musician in play (including this card), +1 Card; or +$1 per Town Musician in play (including this card), +1 Buy.

#15 (tie) - Windmill by Rush Clasic with 5 points (Radium)
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
Trash a card from your hand. If that card costs $3 or more: +1 Action.

#15 (tie) - Fountain by Robz888 with 5 points (Iodine)
$3 - Action
+$1
+1 VP
You may play a Fountain from your hand.

#15 (tie) - New Moon by Bella Cullen with 5 points (Hydrogen)
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one: Draw up to 6 cards, OR +$2 and discard two cards.

#20 (tie) - Collector by heatthespurs with 4 points (Potassium)
$5 - Action-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Reveal a card from your hand, if it is an...
Action card, +2 Actions
Treasure card, +$2
Victory card, +2 Cards
You may trash the revealed card.

#20 (tie) - Barge by DWetzel with 4 points (Aluminum)
$2 - Action-Duration
For each copy of Barge you have in play, including this one, choose one: $1, +1 Card, or +1 Action.  The choices may be the same or different.
At the start of your next turn: $1.

#22 (tie) - Pet Monkey by angrybirds with 3 points (Lithium)
$5 - Action
+1 Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a treasure putting it into your hand.
For every differently named treasure card in your hand, choose either +$1 or +1 Card.

#22 (tie) - Luchre by Adrienaline with 3 points (Krypton)
$2 - Treasure
Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
Worth $2 per card from hand you put on top of your deck this turn.

#22 (tie) - Horn of Sufficiency by Sakako with 3 points (Fluorine)
$4 - Action
+1 Action
Set aside the top card of your deck face-down on your Horn of Sufficiency mat. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the number of cards on your mat.
You may not look at the set-aside cards. Discard the set aside cards at the end of your turn.

#22 (tie) - Revolutionary by NoMoreFun with 3 points (Calcium)
$5 - Action
Discard any number of cards from your hand.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Reveal your hand. For each Revolutionary in it, +1 Action.

#26 (tie) - Watermill by Fuu with 2 points (Mercury)
$3 - Action
Gain a card costing up to $3 per Watermill in play, counting this.

#26 (tie) - Royal Society by zahlman with 2 points (Magnesium)
$4 - Action
+1 Action
Reveal a card from your deck for each copy of Royal Society you have in play (including this), and one more. Put one of the revealed cards into your hand; discard any number of other revealed cards; put the rest on the bottom of your deck.
--
When you clean this up, if you did not play another Royal Society this turn, put this on top of your deck.

#26 (tie) - Collaborator by RobertJ with 2 points (Cobalt)
$2 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Card; or +$1 for each Collaborator you have in play (including this one).

#26 (tie) - Assessor by Guy Srinivasan with 2 points (Chlorine)
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Draw until you have 5 cards in hand, then draw a card, revealing the drawn cards. Set aside one of the revealed cards and discard the rest.
You may put the set aside card into your hand at any time before the Clean-up phase this turn. If you do not, discard it.

#30 (tie) - Flea Market by Watno with 1 point (Xenon)
$3 - Action
For every Flea Market you have in play (including this), you may choose one (no option may be taken more than twice):
+1 Action, +1 Card, +$1, +1 Buy, trash a card from your hand.

#30 (tie) - Samurai by PenPen with 1 point (Titanium)
$5 - Action-Attack-Reaction
+1 Card
Each other player discards a card.
You may return up to two Samurai tokens to its supply. Each other player discards an additional card per token returned.
Gain a Samurai token.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may return a Samurai token to its supply and discard this, then at the start of your next turn, +1 Card. You may instead trash this card if you do not return a Samurai token to its supply, if you do, gain a Samurai token.
If you do either, you are unaffected by that Attack.

#30 (tie) - Ifthiscardwinsi'llgiveitanactualtitle by Graystripe77 with 1 point (Silicon)
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Discard a card.
Each other player draws and discards a card.
Reveal your hand. If you did not reveal any Ifthiscardwinsi'llgiveitanactualtitle, return this to the supply.

#30 (tie) - Junkyard by Tejayes with 1 point (Radon)
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
You may convert 2 Actions, 2 Buys, or 1 Action and 1 Buy into $1.
You may convert $1 into 2 Actions, 2 Buys, or 1 Action and 1 Buy.
(You cannot go below 0 Actions or 0 Buys.)

#30 (tie) - Whitesmith by One Armed Man with 1 point (Phosphorus)
$3 - Action
Reveal any number of Silver cards from your hand. +1 Action for each Silver revealed. Then, +2 Cards.

#30 (tie) - Conjurer by Kirian with 1 point (Nickel)
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1 for each Conjurer token on your mat
You may trash a card from your hand.  If you do, gain a token on your Conjurer mat.
--
When you discard this from play, choose one: gain a Copper, or return all Conjurer tokens to the supply.

#30 (tie) - Juggler by PurplePotato with 1 point (Lead)
$5 - Action
Choose One: +3 Cards; or +3 Actions.

#30 (tie) - Coven by Mecherath with 1 point (Gallium)
$5 - Action
Choose one: +$1; or +1 Card; or +1 Buy.
Choose one: Each other player gains a Curse; or reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Coven.  Put it in your hand and discard the other cards.
You may play a Coven from your hand.

#30 (tie) - Stratego by ignorentmen with 1 point (Chromium)
$5 - Action
+1 Action
When this is in play each time you draw a card remove a token from your Stratego mat if possible, or instead of drawing a card you may place a token on your Stratego mat.  During this or another turn you may redeem your mat's tokens for a card equal to the number of tokens on your mat.
+1 Card

#30 (tie) - Railway Town by Jack Rudd with 1 point (Beryllium)
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
If you have played Railway Town two or more times this turn, +1 Card.
If you have played it three or more times this turn, +$1.
If you have played it four or more times this turn, +1 Buy.
If you have played it five or more times this turn, +1 VP.

#40 (tie) - Oafs by Powerman with 0 points (Tungsten)
$6 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
Discard 2 cards.
If this is the first Oafs you've played this turn, each other player discards any number of cards from their hand and draws until they have 5 cards.  Otherwise, each other player discards a card from their hand.

#40 (tie) - Sycophant by Fragasnap with 0 points (Plutonium)
$2P - Action
+2 Cards
+$1
Return a card from your hand to the Supply and gain a card costing up to as much as it, putting it into your hand.
You may play a Sycophant from your hand.

#40 (tie) - Architect's Guild by Tables with 0 points (Helium)
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+1 Card for every three action cards in play (including this).
+$1 for every four action cards in play (including this).
If you have twelve or more action cards in play (including this), trash this.

#40 (tie) - Contraption by Nicrosil with 0 points (Argon)
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash this and another card from your hand. If you trash this, and have no cards in hand, the player to your left reveals his or her hand. Gain 4 non-Victory cards costing at most $6 which were not revealed.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 02:34:57 pm by rinkworks »
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Robz888

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2012, 12:53:54 pm »
0

Congratulations to the winner!

Also, nice card, Yuma! Yours was my favorite.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2012, 12:54:18 pm »
0

I voted for the winner for once! Yaya!
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yuma

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2012, 12:55:13 pm »
0

wow second place for my card:

#2 - Recruiter by yuma with 17 points (Boron)
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: gain an Attack card from the supply; or all other players gain a Curse.
--
When you play this you may reveal Attack cards from your hand. +$1 for each revealed Attack card.

In the end I am glad it didn't win as it didn't, as was mentioned by others, fit the specifications of the challenge. For that reason I am surprised that it got as many votes as it did.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2012, 12:57:00 pm »
0

It was easy to miss that it didn't fit the challenge.  I am also glad it didn't win (it's ok to say it after you say it, right?)

This is in contrast with the first winner, which was ok because things were different.
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yuma

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2012, 12:59:20 pm »
0

It was easy to miss that it didn't fit the challenge.  I am also glad it didn't win (it's ok to say it after you say it, right?)

This is in contrast with the first winner, which was ok because things were different.

I wasn't planning on it winning by any means, but in the 5% chance that it would, I think I would have either suggested it not be used or figure out a way to tweak it so that it would fit the specifications...
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2012, 01:04:49 pm »
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Congrats to the winner -- two price reducers now!



My entry this week, Sodium, was likely overpowered.  I entered it mostly for the theme, which you all did not get to see because names are hidden.

#15 (tie) - Town Musician by eHalcyon with 5 points (Sodium)
$3 - Action
Choose one: +1 Action per Town Musician in play (including this card), +1 Card; or +$1 per Town Musician in play (including this card), +1 Buy.


The name is mostly a reference to Wandering Minstrel.  This is another musical Village card.  Town Musician is a reference to the Town Musicians of Bremen, which is a fun little folk tale about four animals.  With this card, 4 is the magic number -- the first three plays will usually end up turning each of them into a Peddler, but the fourth one can give a big payout.

Nonetheless, it should probably have been costed at $4 or tweaked in some other way.  Can't win them all though! ;)
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PenPen

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2012, 01:05:32 pm »
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Congrats to dnkywin! I didn't vote for it however. I wonder if there are/were medieval salesmen though.

On my card (Samurai/Titanium) I designed around the theme that samurais would be based on tokens (which is kinda like honor or bushido) where you get more honor by attacking other players. Meanwhile when you're attacked, the samurai defends for you, but once the honor's used up in defending you, the samurai commits seppuku (thus the trashing).

It just scaled pretty badly and the card got really complex (it was actually even crazier when I first designed this), and the end result is meh. I do think there's a chance that Guilds may be using a system like the card I designed, but the tokens can be used by multiple cards you own (that's purely speculation from me).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2012, 01:23:41 pm »
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Ummm... ???

The results are in!  As a reminder, here was the objective for this challenge:

Quote
Create a one-shot card.  This is a card that trashes itself, returns itself to its pile, or sets itself aside permanently when played.  The card must always do this when played; it can't, for example, only trash or return itself under certain circumstances, or if the player chooses a particular option.  You may only submit a single card -- that is, you can't submit multiple cards that work together (such as Pillage and Spoils).
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2012, 01:26:30 pm »
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Congrats dnkywin! It looks like we definitely need +Buy now - all these price reducers need them!
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Robz888

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2012, 01:32:34 pm »
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Ummm... ???

The results are in!  As a reminder, here was the objective for this challenge:

Quote
Create a one-shot card.  This is a card that trashes itself, returns itself to its pile, or sets itself aside permanently when played.  The card must always do this when played; it can't, for example, only trash or return itself under certain circumstances, or if the player chooses a particular option.  You may only submit a single card -- that is, you can't submit multiple cards that work together (such as Pillage and Spoils).

You are in the wrong thread! Is that what you are confused about?
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PenPen

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2012, 01:42:16 pm »
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Ummm... ???

The results are in!  As a reminder, here was the objective for this challenge:

Quote
Create a one-shot card.  This is a card that trashes itself, returns itself to its pile, or sets itself aside permanently when played.  The card must always do this when played; it can't, for example, only trash or return itself under certain circumstances, or if the player chooses a particular option.  You may only submit a single card -- that is, you can't submit multiple cards that work together (such as Pillage and Spoils).

You are in the wrong thread! Is that what you are confused about?

No he's right actually...rinkworks used the wordings from the other contest for his rankings in this one.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2012, 01:49:10 pm »
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Congrats to the winner!

I'm happy with a tie for 3rd on Oxygen/Broker.  Even though it was underpriced, I've played about four games with it (half of the games priced at $4 after the contest was underway... it works better at $4), and it is a lot of fun.

One thing I found with the card is that it pairs really well with Festival.  In a Goons game, it wasn't as good as a Hunting Party Stack, and it is (like most cards) a bad buy in an IGG rush.

In retrospect, I should have noticed the $3 most-of-the-time-it's-Peddler flaw, but oh well, it placed better than I expected... and it was fun to play, too.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2012, 01:49:59 pm »
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Heh, Railway Town got fewer votes after the modifications to it. Such is life.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2012, 02:35:16 pm »
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Ummm... ???

The results are in!  As a reminder, here was the objective for this challenge:

Quote
Create a one-shot card.  This is a card that trashes itself, returns itself to its pile, or sets itself aside permanently when played.  The card must always do this when played; it can't, for example, only trash or return itself under certain circumstances, or if the player chooses a particular option.  You may only submit a single card -- that is, you can't submit multiple cards that work together (such as Pillage and Spoils).

Whoops!  Fixed.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2012, 03:26:25 pm »
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Heh, Railway Town got fewer votes after the modifications to it. Such is life.

I noticed the same thing about my card, Horse Farm, last week.
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Mecherath

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #14: Self-Synergizing Card!
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2012, 03:57:48 pm »
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Ouch.  Only vote was myself.  Tough crowd. ;)
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