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Author Topic: Cards with maximum buying value  (Read 19028 times)

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wuthefwasthat

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2012, 02:44:00 am »
+1

On copper
10 king's courted coppersmiths and 10 king's courted bands of misfits acting as coppersmiths bring a coppers value up to 61. Played with a counterfeit that's $122 from the copper play. Where is everyone getting 90 from?

Good point.  I only got up to 30, and can't see better than ~60 with BoM.

I had written up explanations...
Procession, Graverobber, and Rogue let you get higher.  Actually, it's possible to get $99.  I updated the explanation accordingly.

without looking

Nice score!!  Though you did get lucky with some faulty reasoning :P  Without Graverobber/Rogue, Pirate Ship and Band of Misfits fall to 7th and 8th!  And I'm not convinced you had the Copper figure at $90 for the right reasons... Coppersmith alone is only enough to get it to 60.  And though this turned out not to matter, Band Of Misfits can't act as Tribute.  Also, hehe, everyone forgets Forager's name and function...
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O

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2012, 03:09:23 am »
0

On copper
10 king's courted coppersmiths and 10 king's courted bands of misfits acting as coppersmiths bring a coppers value up to 61. Played with a counterfeit that's $122 from the copper play. Where is everyone getting 90 from?

Good point.  I only got up to 30, and can't see better than ~60 with BoM.

I had written up explanations...
Procession, Graverobber, and Rogue let you get higher.  Actually, it's possible to get $99.  I updated the explanation accordingly.

without looking

Nice score!!  Though you did get lucky with some faulty reasoning :P  Without Graverobber/Rogue, Pirate Ship and Band of Misfits fall to 7th and 8th!  And I'm not convinced you had the Copper figure at $90 for the right reasons... Coppersmith alone is only enough to get it to 60.  And though this turned out not to matter, Band Of Misfits can't act as Tribute.  Also, hehe, everyone forgets Forager's name and function...

So many derps... yet it didn't matter  ;D

I had Coppersmith, BOM as coppersmith and graverobber figured in. But I was wrong because I thought all 30 could be KCed
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qmech

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2012, 04:57:57 am »
+1

I had written up explanations...
And I had read them.  :-[

Very clever.
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ghostofmars

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2012, 12:04:43 pm »
0

Nice challange, here's my list

1) Pirate Ship (goes up to infinite now, trash silver and graverobbing)
2-3) Vault/Secret Chamber (proportional to number of cards)
4) Bank (proportional to number of treasures in kingdom)
5) Phil. Stone (all cards / 5)
6-7) Death Cart/Platinum (5)
8-10) Poor House/Fool's Gold/Tribute (4)
(Harvest is also 4, but top 10 was required only)

I've assumed that it's not allowed to Counterfeit your treasures, otherwise the lower ranks change to
6) Platinum (10)
7) Fool's Gold (8)
8-9) Gold,Cache (6)
10) Death Card (5)


EDIT:
I've checked the list and noticed that I'm still not used to the new cards
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 12:11:03 pm by ghostofmars »
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ghostofmars

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2012, 12:18:13 pm »
0

I think Forager should be higher as there are so many differently named cards in the Black Market
EDIT: And I'm wrong again, because it only counts treasure :(
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 12:22:00 pm by ghostofmars »
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Schneau

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2012, 07:37:27 pm »
+1

Haven't peaked yet, here are my answers with my estimate of max coins:

1. Pirate Ship (infinite)
2. Band of Misfits (infinite)
3. Storeroom (~625)
4. Vault (~625)
5. Secret Chamber (~625)
6. Bank (~450)
7. Philosopher's Stone (~125)
8. Diadem (~110)
9. Forager (18)
10. Trade Route (13)


Honorable Mentions:
11. Salvager (11)
12. Death Cart (5)
13. Platinum (5)


EDIT: Score of 85, not bad! I forgot that Coppersmith adds value to Copper - I never think of it that way, but it does! Otherwise, my top 9 are in the top 10, with a few misplaced, but not by too much.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 08:00:27 pm by Schneau »
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zahlman

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2012, 02:29:26 am »
0

Quote
Size of largest possible deck is around 600.  6 player game.  Include a Black Market deck with all cards not in the Kingdom, including Young Witch and Tournament.  Let Rats, Hermit, Urchin, Marauder, a Prosperity card, and a Potion-cost card be piles, with VP Kingdom cards for the rest.

Just how many cards are you supposed to put in the Black Market deck? I assumed that when Iso puts 25 that this is standard somehow.
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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2012, 05:06:14 am »
0

It's up to you, just as you can select the Kingdom cards however you like.  The official recommendation is to use all the cards (the remaining randomisers?), but that would be impractical for Isotropic.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2012, 09:35:09 am »
+2

Also, about one of the cards in 10+ range:
Trade Route Max is 13$, i think. You only put coins on supply piles, not on stuff in BM.

I think it's $14. Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony are 4. Put BM in the kingdom containing your Trade Route and Young Witch. Tunnel is Bane + your nine other kingdom Victory cards is 10 more for a total of $14.
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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2013, 10:59:48 pm »
0

Necro, but I'm interested.


1) Pirate Ship is obviously at the top.  As long as you can keep trashing Treasures (of which there are well over 50 in the supply), you can keep stocking up.
2) Venture - play it, trip up the other 9 Ventures, then hit, say, a Bank.
3) Bank - just play every Treasure in the supply first.
4/5) Vault/Secret Chamber (tie) - a little harder to do, since you not only need a huge deck, but a way to draw that huge deck without playing half of it.
6) Salvager maxes out at $11.
7/8) Death Cart and Platinum have $5.
9/10) Harvest and Baron can yield $4.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2013, 11:13:48 pm »
0

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.
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heron

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2013, 11:22:55 pm »
0

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

Does this mean that you can't play a Pirate Ship and get +infinite coins?
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SirPeebles

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2013, 11:30:21 pm »
0

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

Does this mean that you can't play a Pirate Ship and get +infinite coins?



So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 11:31:39 pm by SirPeebles »
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dghunter79

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2013, 12:40:18 am »
0

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.
So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.
Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

sudgy

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2013, 12:42:27 am »
0

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.
So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.
Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...
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dghunter79

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2013, 12:46:33 am »
0

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.
So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.
Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

Aidan Millow

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2013, 01:21:37 am »
0

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.
So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.
Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

There's still a limit to how many cards you can get into your hand (Unless you can perpetually play, trash and draw cards with procession and graverobber, please tell me if that's possible.)
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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2013, 01:41:50 am »
0

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.
So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.
Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

There's still a limit to how many cards you can get into your hand (Unless you can perpetually play, trash and draw cards with procession and graverobber, please tell me if that's possible.)

Native Village can let you get any number of cards in your hand.
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florrat

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2013, 01:43:51 am »
+1

It was explicitely stated that for this puzzle, the piles were assumed to be finite with the number of cards of one box.

  • Must be a legal game.  Can be 6 player, involve any legal Kingdom.  Black Market can have all non-Kingdom cards, as the rules state (unlike Isotropic).  However, Treasure piles are the standard 60, 40, 30.
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dghunter79

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2013, 09:40:16 am »
0

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.
So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.
Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

There's still a limit to how many cards you can get into your hand (Unless you can perpetually play, trash and draw cards with procession and graverobber, please tell me if that's possible.)

I was thinking of Counting House.

dghunter79

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2013, 09:42:58 am »
0

It was explicitely stated that for this puzzle, the piles were assumed to be finite with the number of cards of one box.

  • Must be a legal game.  Can be 6 player, involve any legal Kingdom.  Black Market can have all non-Kingdom cards, as the rules state (unlike Isotropic).  However, Treasure piles are the standard 60, 40, 30.

Ah.

GendoIkari

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2013, 04:14:41 pm »
+1

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.
So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.
Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

"The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined" is NOT the same as "The Treasure cards from as many Dominion sets as you wish can be combined." Yes, the intent was for them to not run out, but because they can, there are rules about how many there are. Coppers are either 60, or 120. Any other number doesn't fit the rules technically.
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dghunter79

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2013, 07:36:42 pm »
+1

"The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined" is NOT the same as "The Treasure cards from as many Dominion sets as you wish can be combined." Yes, the intent was for them to not run out, but because they can, there are rules about how many there are. Coppers are either 60, or 120. Any other number doesn't fit the rules technically.

Nah, I don't agree with you.  The implication is pretty clearly "as many as you want."

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2013, 07:46:37 pm »
0

"The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined" is NOT the same as "The Treasure cards from as many Dominion sets as you wish can be combined." Yes, the intent was for them to not run out, but because they can, there are rules about how many there are. Coppers are either 60, or 120. Any other number doesn't fit the rules technically.

Nah, I don't agree with you.  The implication is pretty clearly "as many as you want."
What if each player wants a different number of Coppers?
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dghunter79

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Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2013, 09:25:40 pm »
+4

"The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined" is NOT the same as "The Treasure cards from as many Dominion sets as you wish can be combined." Yes, the intent was for them to not run out, but because they can, there are rules about how many there are. Coppers are either 60, or 120. Any other number doesn't fit the rules technically.

Nah, I don't agree with you.  The implication is pretty clearly "as many as you want."
What if each player wants a different number of Coppers?

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