Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[wuthefwasthat]

This one's just for fun.  And not so much a puzzle as a challenge/quiz of sorts.  A break from my usual style 

Challenge: 

You have some amount of $ to spend during your buy phase this turn.  You play a single card, and the amount of $ increases by X.  For a given card, define its maximum buying value to be the maximum X it can possibly achieve as the single card played.  From memory, give a list of the 10 Dominion cards with the largest maximum buying value, in order. 

Rules:

These are all very important.

• Don't look anything up!  Use your brain and scratch paper if you need it. 
• Don't count money obtained by playing a different card, or money obtained in indirect ways.  This is strictly about the amount of $ given directly by playing that card. (For example, under my definition, Haggler, Black Market, Merchant Ship, Cutpurse count for 2; Talisman, Venture, Counterfeit, Quarry, Ironworks, Bridge, Pawn count for 1; and Procession, King's Court, Golem, Horn of Plenty, Coppersmith, Counting House, Adventurer, University, Princess count for 0). 
  
• Must be a legal game.  Can be 6 player, involve any legal Kingdom.  Black Market can have all non-Kingdom cards, as the rules state (unlike Isotropic).  However, Treasure piles are the standard 60, 40, 30.
• Your list may not have ties, even though the actual answer may in fact have tied values.  This is because I couldn't think of a simple scoring system that doesn't encourage having lots of things being tied.  If you know something is a tie, you can just break it arbitrarily (it won't affect your score).

Scoring:

For each card which is indeed in the top 10, you get a number of points equal to 10 minus the minimal distance between your guessed ranking, and from the actual rank interval.  The maximum score is 100. 

E.g. Say you put card X at rank 5.  Then, for that card:

•   If its actual rank was 4, you would get 9 points.
•   If its actual rank was 8, you would get 7 points.
•   If it were actually tied for 7-10, then you would get 8 points.
•   If it were actually tied for 3-5, you would get 10 points. 
•   If its actual rank were 11, you would get 0!

Solutions:

Here is what I believe is the actual ranking, using cards up to Dark Ages: 

1-2. Pirate Ship, Band of Misfits (infinite)
3-5. Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room (around $600)
6. Diadem (around $325)
7. Bank (around $280)
8. Philosopher's Stone (around $120)
9. Copper (around $100)
10. Forager ($23, I think)

Harsh!  You got 0 points for listing:

11. Trade Route ($14, I think)
   Black Market with Trade Route/Young Witch.  Tunnel bane, 9 other Kingdom VP cards.  Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony.
12. Salvager ($11)
13-14. Death Cart, Platinum: $5
Honorable mention: Poor House, Harvest, Tribute, Baron, Fool's Gold ($4)
Dishonorable mention: Poor House (around -$250?)

Explanations:
1-2. Pirate Ship, Band of Misfits
   Thanks to Rogue/Graverobber.  Pre-Dark Ages, could reach $263, or $234 in a 2 Player game.  See topic 2107.
3-5. Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room (around $600)
   Size of largest possible deck is around 600.  6 player game.  Include a Black Market deck with all cards not in the Kingdom, including Young Witch and Tournament.  Let Rats, Hermit, Urchin, Marauder, a Prosperity card, and a Potion-cost card be piles, with VP Kingdom cards for the rest.  Ambassador/Masquerade shennanigans to get opponent's starting hands.  Native Village to draw, on the final turn. 
6. Diadem (around $325)
   Have a chain of Throne Rooms above a chain of Processions, and a parallel chain of King's Courts.  Tributes are played by King's Courts, Fortresses by Procession, and fill in rest of chain with arbitrary Villages.  Some Black Market trickery to get a Village bane, with Tournament (bringing Trusty Steed) and all remaining net-action cards in the Black Market deck (including Crossroads, Hermit bringing Madman, Dame Molly, etc).  Have Necropolis, of course.  Pre-Dark Ages was closer to $270, I think (narrowly beating Pirate Ship and Bank?  Not sure).  I believe including Graverobber/Rogue so that we can get back King's Courts/Tributes/Processions is not going to help, but haven't done the analysis seriously. 
7. Bank (around $280)
   Have a bunch of Kingdom Treasures including Philosopher's Stone, and a Black Market giving Spoils, Diadem, etc.  Use a Native Village from the Black Market deck to draw the hand. 
8. Philosopher's Stone (around $120)
   Again, the size of largest possible deck is around 600.
9. Copper ($99, maybe a bit more)
   Coppersmith!  Plus King's Court, Band of Misfits, Procession, Graverobber, Rogue, Throne Room... see http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4409.msg98564#msg98564.  It's possible you can do better than this, but I doubt it beats Philosopher's Stone.
10. Forager ($23, I think)
   Black Market with all the Kingdom Treasures, and something for Spoils, Potion, Platinum.

How'd you do?  Harder than you thought?  Anyone get 100?!

Edit:  Top 3 scores so far

• O (96)
• Schneau (85)
• qmech (84)

Average score so far:  67.111 (9 entries)

[Grujah]

My list, without looking anything up or referencing card lists or so:

Pirate Ship
Band of Misfits (acting as Pirate Ship)
Vault
Secret Chamber
Bank
Diadem
Philosopher's Stone
Forager
Trade Route
Salvager

Now, lemme count my points, feel pretty confident.

[Grujah]

My result:
Got _8_/10 of the list correct. Forgot damn Storageroom (Mostly because Vault/SC were last addition to my list, and I forgot this exists) and Copper (Tricksy Hobbitses). I listed numbers #11 and #12 instead.

This brings me to 75 points.

Great challenge.

[Grujah]

Also, about one of the cards in 10+ range:
Trade Route Max is 13$, i think. You only put coins on supply piles, not on stuff in BM.

[Powerman]

I disagree with your number 10.  Let's say you have 60 copper, a black market, and a coppersmith set aside on your native village mat.  Play the native village, put it all in hand.  Play the black market, playing all 60 of your copper.  Now play the coppersmith, which adds $60 worth of buying value.  So therefore, (because of black market shenanigans) I think it should be coppersmith.

[AJD]

My list, without looking anything up:


Diadem
Vault
Secret Chamber
Bank
Pirate Ship
Philosopher's Stone
Forager
Trade Route
Salvager
...Platinum?


I'm pretty sure Platinum isn't on the list, but I can't think what I might be missing.

[AJD]

I disagree with your number 10.  Let's say you have 60 copper, a black market, and a coppersmith set aside on your native village mat.  Play the native village, put it all in hand.  Play the black market, playing all 60 of your copper.  Now play the coppersmith, which adds $60 worth of buying value.  So therefore, (because of black market shenanigans) I think it should be coppersmith.

That is not correct. Coppersmith never gives you money. It only changes the value of future Coppers played this turn.

[AJD]

I'm pretty sure Platinum isn't on the list, but I can't think what I might be missing.

Gah, Band of Misfits! But does that really give you +$, or is it really Pirate Ship that gives you the +$ when you play Band of Misfits as it?

[Grujah]

I disagree with your number 10.  Let's say you have 60 copper, a black market, and a coppersmith set aside on your native village mat.  Play the native village, put it all in hand.  Play the black market, playing all 60 of your copper.  Now play the coppersmith, which adds $60 worth of buying value.  So therefore, (because of black market shenanigans) I think it should be coppersmith.

That is not correct. Coppersmith never gives you money. It only changes the value of future Coppers played this turn.

True. DXV confirms it doesn't work like that, here

I'm pretty sure Platinum isn't on the list, but I can't think what I might be missing.

Gah, Band of Misfits! But does that really give you +$, or is it really Pirate Ship that gives you the +$ when you play Band of Misfits as it?

It's BoM that gives you money. Question is "you have X money. You play a card single card A, and now you have X+Y money." Card played was BoM acting as PS, not a PS.

[ycz6]

Welp, here's my attempt:


1 Vault
2 Secret Chamber
3 Catacombs
4 Bank
5 Pirate Ship
6 Diadem
7 Philosopher's Stone
8 Forager
9 Trade Route
10 Salvager


Edit: Okay, in my defense, I haven't played with Dark Ages, so I couldn't remember the name of Store Room and thought it was Catacombs instead. Consolation points plz?

[Grujah]

Heh, saw that and though it was quite funny.

Anyway, 57 points, 67 with consolidation .

Still leading!

[qmech]

Gorgeous challenge!  Here's my list:

Pirate Ship
Vault
Secret Chamber
New similar card from DA
Diadem
Bank
Philosopher's Stone
Copper
DA card that counts different types of treasure in trash
Trade Route


Hope you'll let the descriptive DA references slide.

[qmech]

Missed the BoM.  Loved finding it out though!  I reckon that at 100-10-8+2=84.

EDIT: miscounting, then correcting for the interval.

[bitwise]

Here's my list before looking at what you have:

Diadem
Copper
Bank
Vault
Band of Misfits (see below lol)
Secret Chamber
Storeroom (not sure I have the right name here, but I mean the one in dark ages for 3 that gives a buy, discards for cards, then discards for money)
Philosopher's Stone
Forager (also not sure I have the right name here, but I mean the one in dark ages for 3 that is like trade route but nonterminal and counts distinct treasures in trash)
Trade Route

Edit: Guess I didn't do so well. Oops.

[O]

without looking


1 Pirate Ship = 2 Band of Misfits: Pirate Ship, or Band of Misfits as Pirate ship. infinite
3 = Vault /4 = Secret Chamber /5= Storeroom: Vault for everything, Storeroom for everything, Secret Chamber for everything (too lazy to calculate), but its quite a lot (especially in 6P... 50 curses right? yikes.)
6: Diadem (tribute for 4 actions, BOM as tribute for 4 actions alone = 4*20*3=240, 10 TRed villages (20 actions) 4 piles 4 piles more of villages (50) Golem, Black market with tournament, etc... 240 + 20 + 50 + more actions. I'm sure 6 player nobles adds something here. About 340?
7: Bank: Der be a lot of treasures, so I went by iso standards. Native village pile for draw, 10 piles * 9 for others plus original treasures is like 250
8: Forager (you said unlimited black market deck, there's like 150 differently named cards right?)
9: Copper (with some smithing help) 90$
10: Philosopher's stone: roughly 1/5 of vault, etc. so like 80.

[Grujah]

O is the best so far.   

[O]

I derped on forager a bit 

But pirate ship was infinite since alchemy, with possession. I didn't even think about Dark Ages there)

[NoMoreFun]

On copper
10 king's courted coppersmiths and 10 king's courted bands of misfits acting as coppersmiths bring a coppers value up to 61. Played with a counterfeit that's $122 from the copper play. Where is everyone getting 90 from?

[Grujah]

On copper
10 king's courted coppersmiths and 10 king's courted bands of misfits acting as coppersmiths bring a coppers value up to 61. Played with a counterfeit that's $122 from the copper play. Where is everyone getting 90 from?

No Counterfeit, a single card played. Among those KCs you can put in Processions to trash coppersmiths and than Graverobbers to get them back, I guess... But not sure.

[O]

On copper
10 king's courted coppersmiths and 10 king's courted bands of misfits acting as coppersmiths bring a coppers value up to 61. Played with a counterfeit that's $122 from the copper play. Where is everyone getting 90 from?

No Counterfeit, a single card played. Among those KCs you can put in Processions to trash coppersmiths and than Graverobbers to get them back, I guess... But not sure.

That is correct

NoMoreFun you might want to spoiler that first two words :p

[pst]

NoMoreFun you might want to spoiler that first two words :p

I don't understand the excessive spoiler-tagging in threads like this. When you read the first post you know that everything that follows will be spoilers, more or less.

[NoMoreFun]

I derped on forager a bit 

But pirate ship was infinite since alchemy, with possession. I didn't even think about Dark Ages there)

I don't think you could do this, since it only stops the possessed players cards from being trashed, and he'd be the one playing the pirate ship

[O]

I derped on forager a bit 

But pirate ship was infinite since alchemy, with possession. I didn't even think about Dark Ages there)

I don't think you could do this, since it only stops the possessed players cards from being trashed, and he'd be the one playing the pirate ship

derp......

[qmech]

I don't understand the excessive spoiler-tagging in threads like this. When you read the first post you know that everything that follows will be spoilers, more or less.

I was in two minds, but decided to follow the precedent.  I suppose the justification is that spoilering each post makes it easier to look at things a bit at a time.

On copper
10 king's courted coppersmiths and 10 king's courted bands of misfits acting as coppersmiths bring a coppers value up to 61. Played with a counterfeit that's $122 from the copper play. Where is everyone getting 90 from?

Good point.  I only got up to 30, and can't see better than ~60 with BoM.

[Titandrake]

Alright, well I don't remember Dark Ages cards that well, but here goes.


1. Vault - hundreds (~ all cards in kingdom)
2. Secret Chamber - hundreds (~all cards)
3. That DA cellar variant that can discard for money - hundreds (~all cards)

The actual values between 1 and 3 might not be the same, but I don't feel like figuring out which one works the best.

4. Bank - hundreds (all treasures in kingdom, < all cards)
5. Trade Route - 13 (Est, Duc, Prov, Col, 9 Kingdom victory cards)
6. Salvager - 11 (Trash col)
7. Death Cart - 5
8. Plat -5
9. Poor House - 4
10. FG - 4


Edit: OH YEAH 34/100

[wuthefwasthat]

On copper
10 king's courted coppersmiths and 10 king's courted bands of misfits acting as coppersmiths bring a coppers value up to 61. Played with a counterfeit that's $122 from the copper play. Where is everyone getting 90 from?

Good point.  I only got up to 30, and can't see better than ~60 with BoM.

I had written up explanations...
Procession, Graverobber, and Rogue let you get higher.  Actually, it's possible to get $99.  I updated the explanation accordingly.

without looking

Nice score!!  Though you did get lucky with some faulty reasoning   Without Graverobber/Rogue, Pirate Ship and Band of Misfits fall to 7th and 8th!  And I'm not convinced you had the Copper figure at $90 for the right reasons... Coppersmith alone is only enough to get it to 60.  And though this turned out not to matter, Band Of Misfits can't act as Tribute.  Also, hehe, everyone forgets Forager's name and function...

[O]

On copper
10 king's courted coppersmiths and 10 king's courted bands of misfits acting as coppersmiths bring a coppers value up to 61. Played with a counterfeit that's $122 from the copper play. Where is everyone getting 90 from?

Good point.  I only got up to 30, and can't see better than ~60 with BoM.

I had written up explanations...
Procession, Graverobber, and Rogue let you get higher.  Actually, it's possible to get $99.  I updated the explanation accordingly.

without looking

Nice score!!  Though you did get lucky with some faulty reasoning   Without Graverobber/Rogue, Pirate Ship and Band of Misfits fall to 7th and 8th!  And I'm not convinced you had the Copper figure at $90 for the right reasons... Coppersmith alone is only enough to get it to 60.  And though this turned out not to matter, Band Of Misfits can't act as Tribute.  Also, hehe, everyone forgets Forager's name and function...

So many derps... yet it didn't matter 

I had Coppersmith, BOM as coppersmith and graverobber figured in. But I was wrong because I thought all 30 could be KCed

[qmech]

I had written up explanations...

And I had read them. 

Very clever.

[ghostofmars]

Nice challange, here's my list

1) Pirate Ship (goes up to infinite now, trash silver and graverobbing)
2-3) Vault/Secret Chamber (proportional to number of cards)
4) Bank (proportional to number of treasures in kingdom)
5) Phil. Stone (all cards / 5)
6-7) Death Cart/Platinum (5)
8-10) Poor House/Fool's Gold/Tribute (4)
(Harvest is also 4, but top 10 was required only)

I've assumed that it's not allowed to Counterfeit your treasures, otherwise the lower ranks change to
6) Platinum (10)
7) Fool's Gold (8)
8-9) Gold,Cache (6)
10) Death Card (5)


EDIT:
I've checked the list and noticed that I'm still not used to the new cards

[ghostofmars]

I think Forager should be higher as there are so many differently named cards in the Black Market
EDIT: And I'm wrong again, because it only counts treasure

[Schneau]

Haven't peaked yet, here are my answers with my estimate of max coins:

1. Pirate Ship (infinite)
2. Band of Misfits (infinite)
3. Storeroom (~625)
4. Vault (~625)
5. Secret Chamber (~625)
6. Bank (~450)
7. Philosopher's Stone (~125)
8. Diadem (~110)
9. Forager (18)
10. Trade Route (13)

Honorable Mentions:
11. Salvager (11)
12. Death Cart (5)
13. Platinum (5)

EDIT: Score of 85, not bad! I forgot that Coppersmith adds value to Copper - I never think of it that way, but it does! Otherwise, my top 9 are in the top 10, with a few misplaced, but not by too much.

[zahlman]

Size of largest possible deck is around 600.  6 player game.  Include a Black Market deck with all cards not in the Kingdom, including Young Witch and Tournament.  Let Rats, Hermit, Urchin, Marauder, a Prosperity card, and a Potion-cost card be piles, with VP Kingdom cards for the rest.

Just how many cards are you supposed to put in the Black Market deck? I assumed that when Iso puts 25 that this is standard somehow.

[qmech]

It's up to you, just as you can select the Kingdom cards however you like.  The official recommendation is to use all the cards (the remaining randomisers?), but that would be impractical for Isotropic.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Also, about one of the cards in 10+ range:
Trade Route Max is 13$, i think. You only put coins on supply piles, not on stuff in BM.

I think it's $14. Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony are 4. Put BM in the kingdom containing your Trade Route and Young Witch. Tunnel is Bane + your nine other kingdom Victory cards is 10 more for a total of $14.

[werothegreat]

Necro, but I'm interested.


1) Pirate Ship is obviously at the top.  As long as you can keep trashing Treasures (of which there are well over 50 in the supply), you can keep stocking up.
2) Venture - play it, trip up the other 9 Ventures, then hit, say, a Bank.
3) Bank - just play every Treasure in the supply first.
4/5) Vault/Secret Chamber (tie) - a little harder to do, since you not only need a huge deck, but a way to draw that huge deck without playing half of it.
6) Salvager maxes out at $11.
7/8) Death Cart and Platinum have $5.
9/10) Harvest and Baron can yield $4.

[SirPeebles]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

[heron]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

Does this mean that you can't play a Pirate Ship and get +infinite coins?

[SirPeebles]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

Does this mean that you can't play a Pirate Ship and get +infinite coins?

So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.

[dghunter79]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.

Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

[sudgy]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.

Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

[dghunter79]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.

Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

[Aidan Millow]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.

Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

There's still a limit to how many cards you can get into your hand (Unless you can perpetually play, trash and draw cards with procession and graverobber, please tell me if that's possible.)

[Drab Emordnilap]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.

Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

There's still a limit to how many cards you can get into your hand (Unless you can perpetually play, trash and draw cards with procession and graverobber, please tell me if that's possible.)

Native Village can let you get any number of cards in your hand.

[florrat]

It was explicitely stated that for this puzzle, the piles were assumed to be finite with the number of cards of one box.

• Must be a legal game.  Can be 6 player, involve any legal Kingdom.  Black Market can have all non-Kingdom cards, as the rules state (unlike Isotropic).  However, Treasure piles are the standard 60, 40, 30.

[dghunter79]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.

Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

There's still a limit to how many cards you can get into your hand (Unless you can perpetually play, trash and draw cards with procession and graverobber, please tell me if that's possible.)

I was thinking of Counting House.

[dghunter79]

It was explicitely stated that for this puzzle, the piles were assumed to be finite with the number of cards of one box.

• Must be a legal game.  Can be 6 player, involve any legal Kingdom.  Black Market can have all non-Kingdom cards, as the rules state (unlike Isotropic).  However, Treasure piles are the standard 60, 40, 30.

Ah.

[GendoIkari]

Pirate Ship's maximum value is not infinite.  It doesn't have a maximum value.  Those are different things.

So technically those top two cards are not on the top 10 list, since they don't have maximum values.

Shouldn't you say the same for Vault, Secret Chamber, Store Room, and Bank?  There's no upper limit on the number of available Coppers in the Supply.

Uh... There's only 60 - number of players * 7 Coppers in the supply...

No, there's no upper limit.  There just happen to be only 60 Coppers printed in each set.  But you can combine all the Coppers from all the sets in all the universes into one pile.  It's in the rules to Intrigue.  The Copper pile was intended to be inexhaustible.

"Copper, Silver, and Gold cards are the basic Treasure cards, and they are available in every game. After each player takes 7 Copper cards, place the remaining Copper cards and all of the Silver and Gold cards in face-up piles in the Supply. The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out. (If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)"

"The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined" is NOT the same as "The Treasure cards from as many Dominion sets as you wish can be combined." Yes, the intent was for them to not run out, but because they can, there are rules about how many there are. Coppers are either 60, or 120. Any other number doesn't fit the rules technically.

[dghunter79]

"The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined" is NOT the same as "The Treasure cards from as many Dominion sets as you wish can be combined." Yes, the intent was for them to not run out, but because they can, there are rules about how many there are. Coppers are either 60, or 120. Any other number doesn't fit the rules technically.

Nah, I don't agree with you.  The implication is pretty clearly "as many as you want."

[Awaclus]

"The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined" is NOT the same as "The Treasure cards from as many Dominion sets as you wish can be combined." Yes, the intent was for them to not run out, but because they can, there are rules about how many there are. Coppers are either 60, or 120. Any other number doesn't fit the rules technically.

Nah, I don't agree with you.  The implication is pretty clearly "as many as you want."

What if each player wants a different number of Coppers?

[dghunter79]

"The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined" is NOT the same as "The Treasure cards from as many Dominion sets as you wish can be combined." Yes, the intent was for them to not run out, but because they can, there are rules about how many there are. Coppers are either 60, or 120. Any other number doesn't fit the rules technically.

Nah, I don't agree with you.  The implication is pretty clearly "as many as you want."

What if each player wants a different number of Coppers?

That's why you carry a switchblade.