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Author Topic: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition  (Read 17228 times)

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LastFootnote

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Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« on: August 24, 2012, 06:12:45 pm »
+1

Hey, gang. It's almost certainly way too early to post this, being that the last planned expansion (Guilds) hasn't been released yet, but I've been thinking about the hypothetical Treasure Chest expansion. For those of you who are unfamiliar, if it were made, it would be a set that contained a card or two from each existing expansion. For example, it might have a new Duration card (for Seaside), a new Potion card (for Alchemy), etc.

I don't think there's much contention here about whether or not we want such a set; most of the folks on this forum would happily buy it. I'm interested in talking about the composition of such a set.

Donald has stated that the set would contain two cards from each large expansion (not including the base set, but including Dark Ages), and one card from each small expansion. As an alternative, I suggest the following distribution of new cards:

Base Set: 2
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1
Alchemy: 2
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands: 1
Dark Ages: 1
Guilds: 1

The main idea here is that each small set would end up with a total of 14 cards and each full-size set would have a total of 27 cards. Some other food for thought:
  • One complaint I've heard about Alchemy is that there aren't enough Potion cards. Bumping it up by two rather than one is a pretty significant difference when you're starting from 10.
  • This would mean that there'd be only one new Duration card, but even with two new Seaside-related cards, it seems probable (to me) that only one would be a Duration.
  • I know there are fans of simpler cards out there. This would be an opportunity to add a couple more to the base set, which would increase variety when you're teaching new players Dominion.
  • I love Dark Ages, but it's got a lot of cards as is. Ditto with Hinterlands.
Anyhow, this post is mostly just me killing a few minutes, but if you have an opinion and also need to kill some time, let me know how you feel.

EDIT: I'm making the assumption here that Guilds has 13 Kingdom cards. I could be totally wrong there.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 06:14:45 pm by LastFootnote »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2012, 06:17:10 pm »
0

It's Donald's game, so the composition is his and his decision alone. However, I will say that a Treasure Chest set would be a great way to end Dominion with a bang. I would love to get another Duration, potion cost card, vp token card, and of course card that hands out ruins. So, that would be cool to get more cards like that. I really do hope Donald X. does decide to do this at some point.
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Watno

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 06:29:53 pm »
+2

Id like to see a treasure chest design contest
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2012, 07:47:19 pm »
0

A fan expansion I liked based on this concept; http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1212.0
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2012, 08:25:34 pm »
0

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".
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Tmwinand

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2012, 09:43:30 pm »
+2

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".

I would be upset if they did that and didn't make the new cards available some other way.  I don't want to have to rebuy a set for one new card!
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werothegreat

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2012, 09:56:05 pm »
+1

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".

Those sets have blank cards because you have to do these things in round numbers.  Ever wonder why books have blank pages at the end?
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2012, 10:00:39 pm »
0

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".

I would be upset if they did that and didn't make the new cards available some other way.  I don't want to have to rebuy a set for one new card!

I agree. Imagine the uproar people on here would have if they found out they had to rebuy a set to get a new card. Now, a rethemed Dominion with the same cards is fine by me because only those people who want it, have to buy it.
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2012, 10:39:19 pm »
0

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".

Those sets have blank cards because you have to do these things in round numbers.  Ever wonder why books have blank pages at the end?

Of course I know that. That's why there are 16 potions in alchemy and 5 tournament prizes in cornucopia.

Still, there are 12 blank cards in seaside and 7 blank cards (+8 useless randomisers) in the base set

It'd just be cool if they packaged new copies of the base set and seaside with envoy or governor or stash or even a new promo card (that would also be available as a promo). They could also do the same for Intrigue and Hinterlands if the card is limited in its supply size (the opposite of rats).
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2012, 07:10:59 am »
+5

Why make things so clear cut? I would hope a Treasure Chest expansion would combine themes and ideas such as Potion-cost Duration cards and Prizes that award VP tokens.
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2012, 11:29:00 am »
0

I'm curious about whether the hypothetical treasure chest expansion would be designed so that it is playable with just the basic cards, either those from Dominion/Intrigue or those from the basic cards set (i.e. the same but including potion and platinum).

Maybe the answer to this is already 'no, you would be expected to already own multiple specific expansions to make full use of the treasure chest', but this seems a little counterintuitive. Unless I am mistaken, every expansion can be played by just including the basic cards, so I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that a treasure chest would be the same. If this is the case then certain cards become less likely... Potion-cost cards are not such a problem with just the basic cards set (although if you get your 'basic' cards from Dominion/Intrigue, then that still is a problem since you won't have potion); however, cards that hand out VP tokens or ruins would be a problem, since tokens and ruins require additional sets.

If cards with those additional requirements would be included in a treasure chest expansion, it seems likely that only people who already owned all of the multiple additional sets required would purchase it, else they would be buying one or more cards that they cannot play! This would seem to reduce the incentive for the set to be designed and produced in the first place. The other alternative is to supply the prerequisite ingredients with the treasure chest; including VP tokens is feasible if perhaps wasteful, perhaps even potion cards, maybe spoils, but supplying 50 ruins cards is I think much less likely since they would take so much space.
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werothegreat

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2012, 12:48:07 pm »
+2

I'm curious about whether the hypothetical treasure chest expansion would be designed so that it is playable with just the basic cards, either those from Dominion/Intrigue or those from the basic cards set (i.e. the same but including potion and platinum).

Maybe the answer to this is already 'no, you would be expected to already own multiple specific expansions to make full use of the treasure chest', but this seems a little counterintuitive. Unless I am mistaken, every expansion can be played by just including the basic cards, so I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that a treasure chest would be the same. If this is the case then certain cards become less likely... Potion-cost cards are not such a problem with just the basic cards set (although if you get your 'basic' cards from Dominion/Intrigue, then that still is a problem since you won't have potion); however, cards that hand out VP tokens or ruins would be a problem, since tokens and ruins require additional sets.

If cards with those additional requirements would be included in a treasure chest expansion, it seems likely that only people who already owned all of the multiple additional sets required would purchase it, else they would be buying one or more cards that they cannot play! This would seem to reduce the incentive for the set to be designed and produced in the first place. The other alternative is to supply the prerequisite ingredients with the treasure chest; including VP tokens is feasible if perhaps wasteful, perhaps even potion cards, maybe spoils, but supplying 50 ruins cards is I think much less likely since they would take so much space.

This is why Potion and VP token cards have never been added to other expansions.  The whole point of the Treasure Chest would be that we want more Potion/VP token/etc cards, but they can't be added to a normal expansion.  The label could be "Warning - this is an expansion of all other expansions - you must have all other expansions first!"

"Yo, I heard you liked expansions, so I made an expansion to your expansions...
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2012, 02:28:45 pm »
0

I'm curious about whether the hypothetical treasure chest expansion would be designed so that it is playable with just the basic cards, either those from Dominion/Intrigue or those from the basic cards set (i.e. the same but including potion and platinum).

Maybe the answer to this is already 'no, you would be expected to already own multiple specific expansions to make full use of the treasure chest', but this seems a little counterintuitive. Unless I am mistaken, every expansion can be played by just including the basic cards, so I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that a treasure chest would be the same. If this is the case then certain cards become less likely... Potion-cost cards are not such a problem with just the basic cards set (although if you get your 'basic' cards from Dominion/Intrigue, then that still is a problem since you won't have potion); however, cards that hand out VP tokens or ruins would be a problem, since tokens and ruins require additional sets.

If cards with those additional requirements would be included in a treasure chest expansion, it seems likely that only people who already owned all of the multiple additional sets required would purchase it, else they would be buying one or more cards that they cannot play! This would seem to reduce the incentive for the set to be designed and produced in the first place. The other alternative is to supply the prerequisite ingredients with the treasure chest; including VP tokens is feasible if perhaps wasteful, perhaps even potion cards, maybe spoils, but supplying 50 ruins cards is I think much less likely since they would take so much space.

The point of this expansion would as a reward for the fans who have been there since the games beginning and want more cool stuff for the VP tokens and Potion cards, etc. It's a little something special.
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2012, 03:31:57 pm »
0

Ok, I see; it seems like comparing this hypothetical expansion to normal expansions is not the right way to look at it. Still, I wonder whether it is pretty unlikely to happen given that it caters only to dominion players who own specific expansions. A bunch of individual, promo-style cards which have these prerequisites might be a bit more likely than bundling them together.

But anyway, unlikely or not, let's speculate about the cards already.
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Loschmidt

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2012, 12:08:05 am »
0

Base Set: 2
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1
Alchemy: 2
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands: 1
Dark Ages: 1
Guilds: 1

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.

Base Set: 2 0
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1 2
Alchemy:2 1
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands:1 2
Dark Ages: 1 2
Guilds: 1
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Donald X.

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2012, 12:11:56 am »
0

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.
He was saying what he wanted to see, not what he expected to see.

Having a potion-coster with duration or whatever is certainly on the table if this happens, although it doesn't let you cleanly assign each card to an expansion.

The big thing would be, that you need Alchemy (or Big Box or Base Cards) and Prosperity to have Potions and VP tokens. Whereas Duration cards, when-gain, when-trashed, and Intrigue-like cards don't require anything extra. Actually requiring other expansions, even for two cards, would be a significant factor towards the product not happening.
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2012, 12:12:34 am »
+1

Base Set: 2
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1
Alchemy: 2
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands: 1
Dark Ages: 1
Guilds: 1

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.

Base Set: 2 0
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1 2
Alchemy:2 1
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands:1 2
Dark Ages: 1 2
Guilds: 1

He wasn't going by the size of the expansions, but by the mechanics he'd like to see more of.
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2012, 12:22:32 am »
0

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.
He was saying what he wanted to see, not what he expected to see.

Having a potion-coster with duration or whatever is certainly on the table if this happens, although it doesn't let you cleanly assign each card to an expansion.

The big thing would be, that you need Alchemy (or Big Box or Base Cards) and Prosperity to have Potions and VP tokens. Whereas Duration cards, when-gain, when-trashed, and Intrigue-like cards don't require anything extra. Actually requiring other expansions, even for two cards, would be a significant factor towards the product not happening.

VP tokens might be out of the picture, but getting Potion is relatively easy since it does come in the Base cards. (I really want more Potion cards)
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2012, 12:31:01 am »
+1

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.
He was saying what he wanted to see, not what he expected to see.

Having a potion-coster with duration or whatever is certainly on the table if this happens, although it doesn't let you cleanly assign each card to an expansion.

The big thing would be, that you need Alchemy (or Big Box or Base Cards) and Prosperity to have Potions and VP tokens. Whereas Duration cards, when-gain, when-trashed, and Intrigue-like cards don't require anything extra. Actually requiring other expansions, even for two cards, would be a significant factor towards the product not happening.

Monument, Bishop and Goons do fill out the VP token design sphere rather nicely, so I'd be fine if there weren't any new ones in a Treasure Chest set, but I would definitely need some more Potion-cost cards.
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2012, 01:49:25 am »
0

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.
He was saying what he wanted to see, not what he expected to see.

My bad.

The big thing would be, that you need Alchemy (or Big Box or Base Cards) and Prosperity to have Potions and VP tokens. Whereas Duration cards, when-gain, when-trashed, and Intrigue-like cards don't require anything extra. Actually requiring other expansions, even for two cards, would be a significant factor towards the product not happening.


Presumably the thing will only happen for a special occasion and if the dedicated fanbase stays rabidly enthused.

It'd be something that would be easy enough to Kickstart for say the 10th anniversary of Dominion. Kickstarter allows you to have people pre-purchase and to not bother with a print run unless it's popular enought to afford.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 01:51:41 am by Loschmidt »
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Donald X.

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2012, 02:31:03 am »
0

It'd be something that would be easy enough to Kickstart for say the 10th anniversary of Dominion. Kickstarter allows you to have people pre-purchase and to not bother with a print run unless it's popular enought to afford.
I don't imagine that would actually be relevant. The way to look at it isn't to consider Treasure Chest vs. nothing, but Treasure Chest vs. other stuff. If I could be talked into doing a 9th expansion in order to make a Treasure Chest, couldn't I also be talked into doing a 9th expansion that was just a new expansion? And given a choice, which is better? It's plausible that there would be a certain audience for a Treasure Chest, but I bet a new set would have a larger audience.

When I had to make a small 8th expansion, to go in between Hinterlands and Dark Ages, I considered doing a Seaside sequel. I pitched the idea to Jay. He didn't exactly rule it out, but he did think that something completely new would be better. I did a new thing instead. And I mean, when its time comes, I do not imagine too many people will say, what is this Guilds nonsense, I would have rather had more duration cards.

Treasure Chest would probably be easier to do than a new expansion, so it has that charm for me personally. I'm just one guy though.
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2012, 03:05:48 am »
0

It'd be something that would be easy enough to Kickstart for say the 10th anniversary of Dominion. Kickstarter allows you to have people pre-purchase and to not bother with a print run unless it's popular enought to afford.
I don't imagine that would actually be relevant. The way to look at it isn't to consider Treasure Chest vs. nothing, but Treasure Chest vs. other stuff. If I could be talked into doing a 9th expansion in order to make a Treasure Chest, couldn't I also be talked into doing a 9th expansion that was just a new expansion? And given a choice, which is better? It's plausible that there would be a certain audience for a Treasure Chest, but I bet a new set would have a larger audience.

When I had to make a small 8th expansion, to go in between Hinterlands and Dark Ages, I considered doing a Seaside sequel. I pitched the idea to Jay. He didn't exactly rule it out, but he did think that something completely new would be better. I did a new thing instead. And I mean, when its time comes, I do not imagine too many people will say, what is this Guilds nonsense, I would have rather had more duration cards.

Treasure Chest would probably be easier to do than a new expansion, so it has that charm for me personally. I'm just one guy though.

Speaking as the audience for a Treasure Box style expansion, my point was if the neat idea of a Treasure Box was nixed because of the needing Alchemy/Prosperity for a few cards then you could use Kickstarter to basically guarantee that there were enough people with both or that just thought it was a neat idea.

The fans all have their favourite sub-mechanics; there are so many people on these forums that would love more durations or potion cards. Normally I'd be all over another expansion vs something so specific as an expansion-expansion, but after 8 expansions I think something that caters only to the super dedicated fans would be a nice thing.
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2012, 03:51:17 am »
0

Speaking as the audience for a Treasure Box style expansion, my point was if the neat idea of a Treasure Box was nixed because of the needing Alchemy/Prosperity for a few cards then you could use Kickstarter to basically guarantee that there were enough people with both or that just thought it was a neat idea.
If Treasure Chest were a real possibility, but the Potion/VP tokens thing was a barrier, we would do New Expansion instead. We don't need a kickstarter for New Expansion, and for sure we wouldn't decide between the two things via a kickstarter. So it would never matter that kickstarter could have pushed Treasure Chest through.

Man do they even do those? A kickstarter where you pick a side, and the side with more funding is the one that happens.
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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2012, 08:22:13 am »
+3

Speaking as the audience for a Treasure Box style expansion, my point was if the neat idea of a Treasure Box was nixed because of the needing Alchemy/Prosperity for a few cards then you could use Kickstarter to basically guarantee that there were enough people with both or that just thought it was a neat idea.
If Treasure Chest were a real possibility, but the Potion/VP tokens thing was a barrier, we would do New Expansion instead. We don't need a kickstarter for New Expansion, and for sure we wouldn't decide between the two things via a kickstarter. So it would never matter that kickstarter could have pushed Treasure Chest through.

Man do they even do those? A kickstarter where you pick a side, and the side with more funding is the one that happens.

Or... do both?  :3
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Kahryl

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2012, 04:13:20 pm »
0

Treasure Chest
Action ($5)

Gain a gold and a silver.
Each other player may gain a silver and a copper.


Am I doing it right??


« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 04:20:07 pm by Kahryl »
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