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Author Topic: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition  (Read 17224 times)

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michaeljb

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2012, 11:34:03 pm »
0

For a potential Treasure Chest expansion, I just always imagined its rulebook referencing the other rulebooks; "to use this potion-costing card you need Dominion: Alchemy; see the Alchemy rulebook for rules regarding potion costs" or "to use this VP-token card, you need Dominion: Prosperity; if you do not have Prosperity tokens earned from this card may be tracked with pencil and paper" or "more rules regarding Duration cards are found in the Dominion: Seaside rulebook."

I can see that being undesirable, but that's the first thing that came to mind when considering this idea for a set. Even if someone didn't have all the previous sets, I don't think the cards become unplayable; someone who didn't have Alchemy but bought this could even still use the potion-costing card using blanks or just assigning some other card to fill in for potion for that particular game.
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whaleyland

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2012, 11:50:14 am »
0

Regarding the small problem of designating which expansion a card belongs to, you could always use multiple expansion icons at the bottom. I mean, for most it would just be an Alchemy (or Intrigue, or Seaside, etc.) and Treasure Chest icon but you could always have three icons for some cards. Sure it could get crazy, but it would certainly make things a bit more clear when trying to figure out when to use Colony or Potion and whatnot.
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Malaprop

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2013, 08:02:59 pm »
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It's Donald's game, so the composition is his and his decision alone. However, I will say that a Treasure Chest set would be a great way to end Dominion with a bang. I would love to get another Duration, potion cost card, vp token card, and of course card that hands out ruins. So, that would be cool to get more cards like that. I really do hope Donald X. does decide to do this at some point.

It would be really awesome if the Treasure Chest expansion came in an actual treasure chest.  With souped up tokens (like silver for 1s and Gold for 5s.  I always found it annoying that they were not different colors when I counted them up IRL).  More elegant and functional matts (perhaps puzzle pieces that somehow fit together???).  MORE POTION CARDS (because thats really what you need right now, more potion cards), ruins, you know throw all the "extra" stuff in there.  And then put it all in a swanky carry-along chest.

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RD

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2013, 11:54:05 am »
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I don't imagine that would actually be relevant. The way to look at it isn't to consider Treasure Chest vs. nothing, but Treasure Chest vs. other stuff. If I could be talked into doing a 9th expansion in order to make a Treasure Chest, couldn't I also be talked into doing a 9th expansion that was just a new expansion?

Haven't you expressed concern though that cards are forced to become more complicated as you release more expansions, because most of the simple ideas have been done? I know there are a lot of arguments against making more expansions but my impression was this was one of the big ones. Treasure Chest then has the advantage that you've only released a handful of Duration/VP-chip/etc. cards; surely there must be a lot of simple cards left to make. I'm probably stating the obvious here but surprised I've never seen this brought up.

Or is that what you meant about Treasure Chest being easier to make? Implying (I guess) that this problem is always surmountable, it just means more work?


The point of this expansion would as a reward for the fans who have been there since the games beginning and want more cool stuff for the VP tokens and Potion cards, etc. It's a little something special.

This is great and all but it seems like it would be a lot more likely to get made if it could also function as a "sampler pack" to tempt new players into buying these sets. "Hey, look how cool this Duration card is, you should buy Seaside."

Edit: Perhaps this is risky though? Given these sets already sell like hotcakes as far as I'm aware; maybe there's little to gain and much to lose if one controversial VP chip card starts turning people away from Prosperity?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 12:05:17 pm by RD »
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StrongRhino

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2013, 09:16:12 pm »
+1

I couldn't care less what kind of expansion is released, as long as one comes out, I'm sure Donald will make it a good one.
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GeronimoRex

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2013, 02:00:03 pm »
+4

It seems like the ultimate "treasure chest" box would be a true treasure chest with the complete Dominion... all cards, all expansions, all promos... and add in a dozen or so kingdom cards that function in that "treasure chest" role, adding 1-2 cards based on each expansion mechanic. Yeah, it would weigh 20 pounds, and yeah, it would cost ~$300, but if the "treasure chest" as storage were well thought out and well made, it could solve the Dominion card storage problem and create the ultimate Christmas gift / collector edition for die hard fans.

Alternatively, sell the "treasure chest" empty. The empty version, at ~$100, would be a slick storage box designed to store all of the existing expansions, and would include the dozen or so new kingdom cards. This way, the "treasure chest" would appeal to serious fans and would also encourage fans who don't have all the sets to gradually fill out the treasure chest. And, of course, leave a few extra slots in the treasure chest designed to hold future promo cards or fan cards.

I think the "empty" version of the treasure chest would probably be met with huge response from fans as long as it was a quality product. Think sustainable hardwood, engraved logo, removable wooden trays for cards, etc.

It would also solve the request from fans for an official storage solution for all the cards, and the storage and new card dynamics would reinforce one another.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2013, 02:39:16 am »
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The gameplay things that are necessarily limited to one expansion
- Cards that cost potion
- Cards that give VP chips, or reference Platinum/Colony
- Cards that give Prizes
- Spoils, Ruins (and Madman, Mercenary)
- Coin Tokens
- Seaside's tokens and mats, and Trade Route's tokens (which I can't easily imagine being used for other cards)

I could see something like Prize cards not being a nuisance to be included a second time; this expansion could have a card that gives out Prizes, and 5 new prize cards, and the rulebook can say to mix them with the Tournament prizes if a card from Cornucopia is in the game.

There may be alternatives to make cards costing Potion includable (eg a card that can gain regardless of cost like Squire, or a card that gives +P), but it will be confusing if there's no Potions in the supply, and probably hard to balance.

You can also do choices, in which one choice involves something from a previous expansion, but they'll be annoying and confusing at best. Having a confusing rule like the size of the base treasure supply piles is one thing, but being forced to make certain choices based on what you own is another. A card that says "Gain a Silver or a Spoils" will taunt the group that doesn't own dark ages, while "Gain a Gold or a Spoils" seems like a useless addition. Even strategically neutral things like "Gain a Silver or a Potion" can make the card look weak in games without the relevant cards: Donald X even thinks the potion cost clause on Apprentice goes too far.

Overall they would all be redundant nuisances to include in later expansions.

Things that don't need the relevant expansions:
- Durations
- When trash effects
- Overpay effects
- Action/Victory and Treasure/Victory Cards (as proven by Island and Dame Josephine)
- When gain/buy effects (as proven by Mint and Death Cart)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 02:40:32 am by NoMoreFun »
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Just a Rube

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2013, 01:02:55 pm »
0

Things that don't need the relevant expansions:
- Durations
- When trash effects
- Overpay effects
- Action/Victory and Treasure/Victory Cards (as proven by Island and Dame Josephine)
- When gain/buy effects (as proven by Mint and Death Cart)
Also:

-Intrigue: Cards that give choices (as shown by Count)
-Prosperity: Treasures that do things when played (as shown by the "may gain a copper" clause of IGG)
-Prosperity: Cards that cost $7

etc.

Several of the sets have sub-themes beyond the obvious (e.g. Hinterlands and Intrigue both have sub-themes of "cards that are/interact with victory cards"). And of course, cards can approach things in different ways (e.g. the Durations affect "Your Next Turn", but so does Lookout). While I'd expect fewer of these things (it's a Treasure Chest, so you want to make the relationship obvious, which Durations do and something like Sea Hag does much less), they're not impossible.

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eHalcyon

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2013, 04:55:03 pm »
+2

Technically speaking, coin tokens are in two expansions.  The tokens for Pirate Ship are also coin tokens.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2013, 05:43:01 pm »
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Technically speaking, coin tokens are in two expansions.  The tokens for Pirate Ship are also coin tokens.

Also Trade Route?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2013, 01:51:31 am »
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Technically speaking, coin tokens are in two expansions.  The tokens for Pirate Ship are also coin tokens.

Also Trade Route?

They're just called "tokens", but the ones in the box are the same IIRC (don't have a physical copy accessible).

I guess that sets a precedent for including tokens in this hypothetical expansion.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2013, 02:09:38 am »
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VP tokens and coin tokens should be doable in my opinion for a treasure chest expansion. The biggest problem is the potion-cost card for Alchemy. I guess if there is only one potion-cost card it won't be too problematic.
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brokoli

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2013, 03:57:21 am »
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But why not an expansion with potions and 4-5 potion-cost cards ? In Dark ages there are only two looters and it's enough to justify the ruins.
I don't see potion-cost cards like a mechanic, it's more like a buy constraint. You can design a duration potion-cost card, or a potion card with an on-buy effect.
In facts, the real mechanic of Alchemy is the action cards and engine games.

VP and money tokens are more problematic...
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Warfreak2

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2013, 07:34:46 am »
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There are three Looters: Cultist, Marauder, and Death Cart. Death Cart just gives the Ruins to you, rather than your opponent.

There are three cards that give Spoils, too.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2013, 12:51:25 pm »
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There are three Looters: Cultist, Marauder, and Death Cart. Death Cart just gives the Ruins to you, rather than your opponent.

There are three cards that give Spoils, too.

Cultist, Death Cart, Marauder, Pillage and Bandit Camp take up an average of 24.2 cards each in the box
Rats, Urchin and Hermit take up 21

I like all those cards, but if they were just ordinary self contained normal sized cards, there'd be room for 8, nearly 9 more cards in the Dark Ages Box.

Just something that bugs me a little bit.

Would it include any cards that take Mercenaries or Madmen?
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SirPeebles

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2013, 06:14:39 pm »
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Technically speaking, coin tokens are in two expansions.  The tokens for Pirate Ship are also coin tokens.

Also Trade Route?

They're just called "tokens", but the ones in the box are the same IIRC (don't have a physical copy accessible).

I guess that sets a precedent for including tokens in this hypothetical expansion.

They are called "Coin token"s in the rule book.
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Warfreak2

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2013, 06:40:48 pm »
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The Pirate Ship card even says "take a coin token", which is identical to Baker's text. Actually the Pirate Ship card doesn't even reference your Pirate Ship mat, it doesn't tell you either to put the token on your mat or to count tokens on your mat.
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shMerker

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2013, 06:59:49 pm »
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Although it does specifically call out "coin tokens you've taken with Pirate Ship" so you'll probably want to keep track of those separately and a mat helps with that.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2013, 08:07:16 pm »
+1

I pointed that out in another thread, but I believe Donald X has already clarified that Pirate Ship tokens are completely separate from Guilds coin tokens.  That is, you cannot spend coin tokens gained from PS as you would spend coin tokens gained from Baker or Butcher.
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shMerker

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2013, 11:36:26 pm »
+1

Yeah I don't think there was really any question about that. It's just odd that Pirate Ship isn't worded a little more carefully.
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AJD

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2013, 11:40:23 pm »
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It's just odd that Pirate Ship isn't worded a little more carefully.

Rather, it's odd that the Guilds cards aren't worded in such a way as not to sound the same as Pirate Ship.
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werothegreat

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2013, 11:44:47 pm »
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VP tokens and coin tokens should be doable in my opinion for a treasure chest expansion. The biggest problem is the potion-cost card for Alchemy. I guess if there is only one potion-cost card it won't be too problematic.

Since Potions are included in the Base Cards, I don't see this as a problem at all.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2013, 08:34:11 am »
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I don't think it's a problem at all to have a treasure chest thing you can only use in parts if you don't have all the prior expanisons. Just look at 7 Wonders: Cities - there you also have additional leaders you just cannot use without the prior Leaders expansion.
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Schlippy

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2013, 10:08:17 am »
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Why not simply include another 16 Potion cards in the Treasure chest?

There is more than enough physical space in a box for it. Sure, it increases the price a little because you might have to do 4 extra blanks, but who cares?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Hypothetical Treasure Chest Expansion Composition
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2013, 05:48:02 am »
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Why not simply include another 16 Potion cards in the Treasure chest?

There is more than enough physical space in a box for it. Sure, it increases the price a little because you might have to do 4 extra blanks, but who cares?

There's only 16 potions in alchemy to round out the box. You could probably get away with having 6 potions in the box unless you make a card that seriously incentivises getting additional potions (like Aqua Vitae from the design contest)
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