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[LastFootnote]

Hey, gang. It's almost certainly way too early to post this, being that the last planned expansion (Guilds) hasn't been released yet, but I've been thinking about the hypothetical Treasure Chest expansion. For those of you who are unfamiliar, if it were made, it would be a set that contained a card or two from each existing expansion. For example, it might have a new Duration card (for Seaside), a new Potion card (for Alchemy), etc.

I don't think there's much contention here about whether or not we want such a set; most of the folks on this forum would happily buy it. I'm interested in talking about the composition of such a set.

Donald has stated that the set would contain two cards from each large expansion (not including the base set, but including Dark Ages), and one card from each small expansion. As an alternative, I suggest the following distribution of new cards:

Base Set: 2
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1
Alchemy: 2
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands: 1
Dark Ages: 1
Guilds: 1

The main idea here is that each small set would end up with a total of 14 cards and each full-size set would have a total of 27 cards. Some other food for thought:

• One complaint I've heard about Alchemy is that there aren't enough Potion cards. Bumping it up by two rather than one is a pretty significant difference when you're starting from 10.
• This would mean that there'd be only one new Duration card, but even with two new Seaside-related cards, it seems probable (to me) that only one would be a Duration.
• I know there are fans of simpler cards out there. This would be an opportunity to add a couple more to the base set, which would increase variety when you're teaching new players Dominion.
• I love Dark Ages, but it's got a lot of cards as is. Ditto with Hinterlands.

Anyhow, this post is mostly just me killing a few minutes, but if you have an opinion and also need to kill some time, let me know how you feel.

EDIT: I'm making the assumption here that Guilds has 13 Kingdom cards. I could be totally wrong there.

[Beyond Awesome]

It's Donald's game, so the composition is his and his decision alone. However, I will say that a Treasure Chest set would be a great way to end Dominion with a bang. I would love to get another Duration, potion cost card, vp token card, and of course card that hands out ruins. So, that would be cool to get more cards like that. I really do hope Donald X. does decide to do this at some point.

[Watno]

Id like to see a treasure chest design contest

[NoMoreFun]

A fan expansion I liked based on this concept; http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1212.0

[NoMoreFun]

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".

[Tmwinand]

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".

I would be upset if they did that and didn't make the new cards available some other way.  I don't want to have to rebuy a set for one new card!

[werothegreat]

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".

Those sets have blank cards because you have to do these things in round numbers.  Ever wonder why books have blank pages at the end?

[Beyond Awesome]

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".

I would be upset if they did that and didn't make the new cards available some other way.  I don't want to have to rebuy a set for one new card!

I agree. Imagine the uproar people on here would have if they found out they had to rebuy a set to get a new card. Now, a rethemed Dominion with the same cards is fine by me because only those people who want it, have to buy it.

[NoMoreFun]

I'd like to see an expansion that has all promo cards, which will hopefully be numerous going into the future.

Also on another note, getting rid of blank cards and randomisers for base cards, there's enough room in the Base Set and Seaside for another Kingdom card. I wonder if that fact will ever be taken advantage of in future printings? It'd be cool if future printings of these sets came with a promo card. Hell, it would be cool if all future printings of all sets had something better than blank cards in them. I don't know what you could do with prosperity's single blank card, although there are ideas for single card kingdoms out there. I'm sure there are kingdom cards with smaller supply sizes (similar to how rats is larger) that could fit in Intrigue and Hinterlands. I'd then like to see those cards all pop up in this "treasure chest".

Those sets have blank cards because you have to do these things in round numbers.  Ever wonder why books have blank pages at the end?

Of course I know that. That's why there are 16 potions in alchemy and 5 tournament prizes in cornucopia.

Still, there are 12 blank cards in seaside and 7 blank cards (+8 useless randomisers) in the base set

It'd just be cool if they packaged new copies of the base set and seaside with envoy or governor or stash or even a new promo card (that would also be available as a promo). They could also do the same for Intrigue and Hinterlands if the card is limited in its supply size (the opposite of rats).

[Fragasnap]

Why make things so clear cut? I would hope a Treasure Chest expansion would combine themes and ideas such as Potion-cost Duration cards and Prizes that award VP tokens.

[Fuu]

I'm curious about whether the hypothetical treasure chest expansion would be designed so that it is playable with just the basic cards, either those from Dominion/Intrigue or those from the basic cards set (i.e. the same but including potion and platinum).

Maybe the answer to this is already 'no, you would be expected to already own multiple specific expansions to make full use of the treasure chest', but this seems a little counterintuitive. Unless I am mistaken, every expansion can be played by just including the basic cards, so I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that a treasure chest would be the same. If this is the case then certain cards become less likely... Potion-cost cards are not such a problem with just the basic cards set (although if you get your 'basic' cards from Dominion/Intrigue, then that still is a problem since you won't have potion); however, cards that hand out VP tokens or ruins would be a problem, since tokens and ruins require additional sets.

If cards with those additional requirements would be included in a treasure chest expansion, it seems likely that only people who already owned all of the multiple additional sets required would purchase it, else they would be buying one or more cards that they cannot play! This would seem to reduce the incentive for the set to be designed and produced in the first place. The other alternative is to supply the prerequisite ingredients with the treasure chest; including VP tokens is feasible if perhaps wasteful, perhaps even potion cards, maybe spoils, but supplying 50 ruins cards is I think much less likely since they would take so much space.

[werothegreat]

I'm curious about whether the hypothetical treasure chest expansion would be designed so that it is playable with just the basic cards, either those from Dominion/Intrigue or those from the basic cards set (i.e. the same but including potion and platinum).

Maybe the answer to this is already 'no, you would be expected to already own multiple specific expansions to make full use of the treasure chest', but this seems a little counterintuitive. Unless I am mistaken, every expansion can be played by just including the basic cards, so I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that a treasure chest would be the same. If this is the case then certain cards become less likely... Potion-cost cards are not such a problem with just the basic cards set (although if you get your 'basic' cards from Dominion/Intrigue, then that still is a problem since you won't have potion); however, cards that hand out VP tokens or ruins would be a problem, since tokens and ruins require additional sets.

If cards with those additional requirements would be included in a treasure chest expansion, it seems likely that only people who already owned all of the multiple additional sets required would purchase it, else they would be buying one or more cards that they cannot play! This would seem to reduce the incentive for the set to be designed and produced in the first place. The other alternative is to supply the prerequisite ingredients with the treasure chest; including VP tokens is feasible if perhaps wasteful, perhaps even potion cards, maybe spoils, but supplying 50 ruins cards is I think much less likely since they would take so much space.

This is why Potion and VP token cards have never been added to other expansions.  The whole point of the Treasure Chest would be that we want more Potion/VP token/etc cards, but they can't be added to a normal expansion.  The label could be "Warning - this is an expansion of all other expansions - you must have all other expansions first!"

"Yo, I heard you liked expansions, so I made an expansion to your expansions...

[Beyond Awesome]

I'm curious about whether the hypothetical treasure chest expansion would be designed so that it is playable with just the basic cards, either those from Dominion/Intrigue or those from the basic cards set (i.e. the same but including potion and platinum).

Maybe the answer to this is already 'no, you would be expected to already own multiple specific expansions to make full use of the treasure chest', but this seems a little counterintuitive. Unless I am mistaken, every expansion can be played by just including the basic cards, so I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that a treasure chest would be the same. If this is the case then certain cards become less likely... Potion-cost cards are not such a problem with just the basic cards set (although if you get your 'basic' cards from Dominion/Intrigue, then that still is a problem since you won't have potion); however, cards that hand out VP tokens or ruins would be a problem, since tokens and ruins require additional sets.

If cards with those additional requirements would be included in a treasure chest expansion, it seems likely that only people who already owned all of the multiple additional sets required would purchase it, else they would be buying one or more cards that they cannot play! This would seem to reduce the incentive for the set to be designed and produced in the first place. The other alternative is to supply the prerequisite ingredients with the treasure chest; including VP tokens is feasible if perhaps wasteful, perhaps even potion cards, maybe spoils, but supplying 50 ruins cards is I think much less likely since they would take so much space.

The point of this expansion would as a reward for the fans who have been there since the games beginning and want more cool stuff for the VP tokens and Potion cards, etc. It's a little something special.

[Fuu]

Ok, I see; it seems like comparing this hypothetical expansion to normal expansions is not the right way to look at it. Still, I wonder whether it is pretty unlikely to happen given that it caters only to dominion players who own specific expansions. A bunch of individual, promo-style cards which have these prerequisites might be a bit more likely than bundling them together.

But anyway, unlikely or not, let's speculate about the cards already.

[Loschmidt]

Base Set: 2
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1
Alchemy: 2
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands: 1
Dark Ages: 1
Guilds: 1

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.

Base Set: 2 0
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1 2
Alchemy:2 1
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands:1 2
Dark Ages: 1 2
Guilds: 1

[Donald X.]

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.

He was saying what he wanted to see, not what he expected to see.

Having a potion-coster with duration or whatever is certainly on the table if this happens, although it doesn't let you cleanly assign each card to an expansion.

The big thing would be, that you need Alchemy (or Big Box or Base Cards) and Prosperity to have Potions and VP tokens. Whereas Duration cards, when-gain, when-trashed, and Intrigue-like cards don't require anything extra. Actually requiring other expansions, even for two cards, would be a significant factor towards the product not happening.

[werothegreat]

Base Set: 2
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1
Alchemy: 2
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands: 1
Dark Ages: 1
Guilds: 1

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.

Base Set: 2 0
Intrigue: 2
Seaside: 1 2
Alchemy:2 1
Prosperity: 2
Cornucopia: 1
Hinterlands:1 2
Dark Ages: 1 2
Guilds: 1

He wasn't going by the size of the expansions, but by the mechanics he'd like to see more of.

[Beyond Awesome]

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.

He was saying what he wanted to see, not what he expected to see.

Having a potion-coster with duration or whatever is certainly on the table if this happens, although it doesn't let you cleanly assign each card to an expansion.

The big thing would be, that you need Alchemy (or Big Box or Base Cards) and Prosperity to have Potions and VP tokens. Whereas Duration cards, when-gain, when-trashed, and Intrigue-like cards don't require anything extra. Actually requiring other expansions, even for two cards, would be a significant factor towards the product not happening.

VP tokens might be out of the picture, but getting Potion is relatively easy since it does come in the Base cards. (I really want more Potion cards)

[werothegreat]

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.

He was saying what he wanted to see, not what he expected to see.

Having a potion-coster with duration or whatever is certainly on the table if this happens, although it doesn't let you cleanly assign each card to an expansion.

The big thing would be, that you need Alchemy (or Big Box or Base Cards) and Prosperity to have Potions and VP tokens. Whereas Duration cards, when-gain, when-trashed, and Intrigue-like cards don't require anything extra. Actually requiring other expansions, even for two cards, would be a significant factor towards the product not happening.

Monument, Bishop and Goons do fill out the VP token design sphere rather nicely, so I'd be fine if there weren't any new ones in a Treasure Chest set, but I would definitely need some more Potion-cost cards.

[Loschmidt]

I think your count is off, based on what Donald said at one point I think its going to be the following.

He was saying what he wanted to see, not what he expected to see.

My bad.

The big thing would be, that you need Alchemy (or Big Box or Base Cards) and Prosperity to have Potions and VP tokens. Whereas Duration cards, when-gain, when-trashed, and Intrigue-like cards don't require anything extra. Actually requiring other expansions, even for two cards, would be a significant factor towards the product not happening.

Presumably the thing will only happen for a special occasion and if the dedicated fanbase stays rabidly enthused.

It'd be something that would be easy enough to Kickstart for say the 10th anniversary of Dominion. Kickstarter allows you to have people pre-purchase and to not bother with a print run unless it's popular enought to afford.

[Donald X.]

It'd be something that would be easy enough to Kickstart for say the 10th anniversary of Dominion. Kickstarter allows you to have people pre-purchase and to not bother with a print run unless it's popular enought to afford.

I don't imagine that would actually be relevant. The way to look at it isn't to consider Treasure Chest vs. nothing, but Treasure Chest vs. other stuff. If I could be talked into doing a 9th expansion in order to make a Treasure Chest, couldn't I also be talked into doing a 9th expansion that was just a new expansion? And given a choice, which is better? It's plausible that there would be a certain audience for a Treasure Chest, but I bet a new set would have a larger audience.

When I had to make a small 8th expansion, to go in between Hinterlands and Dark Ages, I considered doing a Seaside sequel. I pitched the idea to Jay. He didn't exactly rule it out, but he did think that something completely new would be better. I did a new thing instead. And I mean, when its time comes, I do not imagine too many people will say, what is this Guilds nonsense, I would have rather had more duration cards.

Treasure Chest would probably be easier to do than a new expansion, so it has that charm for me personally. I'm just one guy though.

[Loschmidt]

It'd be something that would be easy enough to Kickstart for say the 10th anniversary of Dominion. Kickstarter allows you to have people pre-purchase and to not bother with a print run unless it's popular enought to afford.

I don't imagine that would actually be relevant. The way to look at it isn't to consider Treasure Chest vs. nothing, but Treasure Chest vs. other stuff. If I could be talked into doing a 9th expansion in order to make a Treasure Chest, couldn't I also be talked into doing a 9th expansion that was just a new expansion? And given a choice, which is better? It's plausible that there would be a certain audience for a Treasure Chest, but I bet a new set would have a larger audience.

When I had to make a small 8th expansion, to go in between Hinterlands and Dark Ages, I considered doing a Seaside sequel. I pitched the idea to Jay. He didn't exactly rule it out, but he did think that something completely new would be better. I did a new thing instead. And I mean, when its time comes, I do not imagine too many people will say, what is this Guilds nonsense, I would have rather had more duration cards.

Treasure Chest would probably be easier to do than a new expansion, so it has that charm for me personally. I'm just one guy though.

Speaking as the audience for a Treasure Box style expansion, my point was if the neat idea of a Treasure Box was nixed because of the needing Alchemy/Prosperity for a few cards then you could use Kickstarter to basically guarantee that there were enough people with both or that just thought it was a neat idea.

The fans all have their favourite sub-mechanics; there are so many people on these forums that would love more durations or potion cards. Normally I'd be all over another expansion vs something so specific as an expansion-expansion, but after 8 expansions I think something that caters only to the super dedicated fans would be a nice thing.

[Donald X.]

Speaking as the audience for a Treasure Box style expansion, my point was if the neat idea of a Treasure Box was nixed because of the needing Alchemy/Prosperity for a few cards then you could use Kickstarter to basically guarantee that there were enough people with both or that just thought it was a neat idea.

If Treasure Chest were a real possibility, but the Potion/VP tokens thing was a barrier, we would do New Expansion instead. We don't need a kickstarter for New Expansion, and for sure we wouldn't decide between the two things via a kickstarter. So it would never matter that kickstarter could have pushed Treasure Chest through.

Man do they even do those? A kickstarter where you pick a side, and the side with more funding is the one that happens.

[werothegreat]

Speaking as the audience for a Treasure Box style expansion, my point was if the neat idea of a Treasure Box was nixed because of the needing Alchemy/Prosperity for a few cards then you could use Kickstarter to basically guarantee that there were enough people with both or that just thought it was a neat idea.

If Treasure Chest were a real possibility, but the Potion/VP tokens thing was a barrier, we would do New Expansion instead. We don't need a kickstarter for New Expansion, and for sure we wouldn't decide between the two things via a kickstarter. So it would never matter that kickstarter could have pushed Treasure Chest through.

Man do they even do those? A kickstarter where you pick a side, and the side with more funding is the one that happens.

Or... do both?  :3

[Kahryl]

Treasure Chest
Action ($5)

Gain a gold and a silver.
Each other player may gain a silver and a copper.

Am I doing it right??

[michaeljb]

For a potential Treasure Chest expansion, I just always imagined its rulebook referencing the other rulebooks; "to use this potion-costing card you need Dominion: Alchemy; see the Alchemy rulebook for rules regarding potion costs" or "to use this VP-token card, you need Dominion: Prosperity; if you do not have Prosperity tokens earned from this card may be tracked with pencil and paper" or "more rules regarding Duration cards are found in the Dominion: Seaside rulebook."

I can see that being undesirable, but that's the first thing that came to mind when considering this idea for a set. Even if someone didn't have all the previous sets, I don't think the cards become unplayable; someone who didn't have Alchemy but bought this could even still use the potion-costing card using blanks or just assigning some other card to fill in for potion for that particular game.

[whaleyland]

Regarding the small problem of designating which expansion a card belongs to, you could always use multiple expansion icons at the bottom. I mean, for most it would just be an Alchemy (or Intrigue, or Seaside, etc.) and Treasure Chest icon but you could always have three icons for some cards. Sure it could get crazy, but it would certainly make things a bit more clear when trying to figure out when to use Colony or Potion and whatnot.

[Malaprop]

It's Donald's game, so the composition is his and his decision alone. However, I will say that a Treasure Chest set would be a great way to end Dominion with a bang. I would love to get another Duration, potion cost card, vp token card, and of course card that hands out ruins. So, that would be cool to get more cards like that. I really do hope Donald X. does decide to do this at some point.

It would be really awesome if the Treasure Chest expansion came in an actual treasure chest.  With souped up tokens (like silver for 1s and Gold for 5s.  I always found it annoying that they were not different colors when I counted them up IRL).  More elegant and functional matts (perhaps puzzle pieces that somehow fit together???).  MORE POTION CARDS (because thats really what you need right now, more potion cards), ruins, you know throw all the "extra" stuff in there.  And then put it all in a swanky carry-along chest.

[RD]

I don't imagine that would actually be relevant. The way to look at it isn't to consider Treasure Chest vs. nothing, but Treasure Chest vs. other stuff. If I could be talked into doing a 9th expansion in order to make a Treasure Chest, couldn't I also be talked into doing a 9th expansion that was just a new expansion?

Haven't you expressed concern though that cards are forced to become more complicated as you release more expansions, because most of the simple ideas have been done? I know there are a lot of arguments against making more expansions but my impression was this was one of the big ones. Treasure Chest then has the advantage that you've only released a handful of Duration/VP-chip/etc. cards; surely there must be a lot of simple cards left to make. I'm probably stating the obvious here but surprised I've never seen this brought up.

Or is that what you meant about Treasure Chest being easier to make? Implying (I guess) that this problem is always surmountable, it just means more work?

The point of this expansion would as a reward for the fans who have been there since the games beginning and want more cool stuff for the VP tokens and Potion cards, etc. It's a little something special.

This is great and all but it seems like it would be a lot more likely to get made if it could also function as a "sampler pack" to tempt new players into buying these sets. "Hey, look how cool this Duration card is, you should buy Seaside."

Edit: Perhaps this is risky though? Given these sets already sell like hotcakes as far as I'm aware; maybe there's little to gain and much to lose if one controversial VP chip card starts turning people away from Prosperity?

[StrongRhino]

I couldn't care less what kind of expansion is released, as long as one comes out, I'm sure Donald will make it a good one.

[GeronimoRex]

It seems like the ultimate "treasure chest" box would be a true treasure chest with the complete Dominion... all cards, all expansions, all promos... and add in a dozen or so kingdom cards that function in that "treasure chest" role, adding 1-2 cards based on each expansion mechanic. Yeah, it would weigh 20 pounds, and yeah, it would cost ~$300, but if the "treasure chest" as storage were well thought out and well made, it could solve the Dominion card storage problem and create the ultimate Christmas gift / collector edition for die hard fans.

Alternatively, sell the "treasure chest" empty. The empty version, at ~$100, would be a slick storage box designed to store all of the existing expansions, and would include the dozen or so new kingdom cards. This way, the "treasure chest" would appeal to serious fans and would also encourage fans who don't have all the sets to gradually fill out the treasure chest. And, of course, leave a few extra slots in the treasure chest designed to hold future promo cards or fan cards.

I think the "empty" version of the treasure chest would probably be met with huge response from fans as long as it was a quality product. Think sustainable hardwood, engraved logo, removable wooden trays for cards, etc.

It would also solve the request from fans for an official storage solution for all the cards, and the storage and new card dynamics would reinforce one another.

[NoMoreFun]

The gameplay things that are necessarily limited to one expansion
- Cards that cost potion
- Cards that give VP chips, or reference Platinum/Colony
- Cards that give Prizes
- Spoils, Ruins (and Madman, Mercenary)
- Coin Tokens
- Seaside's tokens and mats, and Trade Route's tokens (which I can't easily imagine being used for other cards)

I could see something like Prize cards not being a nuisance to be included a second time; this expansion could have a card that gives out Prizes, and 5 new prize cards, and the rulebook can say to mix them with the Tournament prizes if a card from Cornucopia is in the game.

There may be alternatives to make cards costing Potion includable (eg a card that can gain regardless of cost like Squire, or a card that gives +P), but it will be confusing if there's no Potions in the supply, and probably hard to balance.

You can also do choices, in which one choice involves something from a previous expansion, but they'll be annoying and confusing at best. Having a confusing rule like the size of the base treasure supply piles is one thing, but being forced to make certain choices based on what you own is another. A card that says "Gain a Silver or a Spoils" will taunt the group that doesn't own dark ages, while "Gain a Gold or a Spoils" seems like a useless addition. Even strategically neutral things like "Gain a Silver or a Potion" can make the card look weak in games without the relevant cards: Donald X even thinks the potion cost clause on Apprentice goes too far.

Overall they would all be redundant nuisances to include in later expansions.

Things that don't need the relevant expansions:
- Durations
- When trash effects
- Overpay effects
- Action/Victory and Treasure/Victory Cards (as proven by Island and Dame Josephine)
- When gain/buy effects (as proven by Mint and Death Cart)

[Just a Rube]

Things that don't need the relevant expansions:
- Durations
- When trash effects
- Overpay effects
- Action/Victory and Treasure/Victory Cards (as proven by Island and Dame Josephine)
- When gain/buy effects (as proven by Mint and Death Cart)

Also:

-Intrigue: Cards that give choices (as shown by Count)
-Prosperity: Treasures that do things when played (as shown by the "may gain a copper" clause of IGG)
-Prosperity: Cards that cost $7

etc.

Several of the sets have sub-themes beyond the obvious (e.g. Hinterlands and Intrigue both have sub-themes of "cards that are/interact with victory cards"). And of course, cards can approach things in different ways (e.g. the Durations affect "Your Next Turn", but so does Lookout). While I'd expect fewer of these things (it's a Treasure Chest, so you want to make the relationship obvious, which Durations do and something like Sea Hag does much less), they're not impossible.

[eHalcyon]

Technically speaking, coin tokens are in two expansions.  The tokens for Pirate Ship are also coin tokens.

[Drab Emordnilap]

Technically speaking, coin tokens are in two expansions.  The tokens for Pirate Ship are also coin tokens.

Also Trade Route?

[NoMoreFun]

Technically speaking, coin tokens are in two expansions.  The tokens for Pirate Ship are also coin tokens.

Also Trade Route?

They're just called "tokens", but the ones in the box are the same IIRC (don't have a physical copy accessible).

I guess that sets a precedent for including tokens in this hypothetical expansion.

[Beyond Awesome]

VP tokens and coin tokens should be doable in my opinion for a treasure chest expansion. The biggest problem is the potion-cost card for Alchemy. I guess if there is only one potion-cost card it won't be too problematic.

[brokoli]

But why not an expansion with potions and 4-5 potion-cost cards ? In Dark ages there are only two looters and it's enough to justify the ruins.
I don't see potion-cost cards like a mechanic, it's more like a buy constraint. You can design a duration potion-cost card, or a potion card with an on-buy effect.
In facts, the real mechanic of Alchemy is the action cards and engine games.

VP and money tokens are more problematic...

[Warfreak2]

There are three Looters: Cultist, Marauder, and Death Cart. Death Cart just gives the Ruins to you, rather than your opponent.

There are three cards that give Spoils, too.

[NoMoreFun]

There are three Looters: Cultist, Marauder, and Death Cart. Death Cart just gives the Ruins to you, rather than your opponent.

There are three cards that give Spoils, too.

Cultist, Death Cart, Marauder, Pillage and Bandit Camp take up an average of 24.2 cards each in the box
Rats, Urchin and Hermit take up 21

I like all those cards, but if they were just ordinary self contained normal sized cards, there'd be room for 8, nearly 9 more cards in the Dark Ages Box.

Just something that bugs me a little bit.

Would it include any cards that take Mercenaries or Madmen?

[SirPeebles]

Technically speaking, coin tokens are in two expansions.  The tokens for Pirate Ship are also coin tokens.

Also Trade Route?

They're just called "tokens", but the ones in the box are the same IIRC (don't have a physical copy accessible).

I guess that sets a precedent for including tokens in this hypothetical expansion.

They are called "Coin token"s in the rule book.

[Warfreak2]

The Pirate Ship card even says "take a coin token", which is identical to Baker's text. Actually the Pirate Ship card doesn't even reference your Pirate Ship mat, it doesn't tell you either to put the token on your mat or to count tokens on your mat.

[shMerker]

Although it does specifically call out "coin tokens you've taken with Pirate Ship" so you'll probably want to keep track of those separately and a mat helps with that.

[eHalcyon]

I pointed that out in another thread, but I believe Donald X has already clarified that Pirate Ship tokens are completely separate from Guilds coin tokens.  That is, you cannot spend coin tokens gained from PS as you would spend coin tokens gained from Baker or Butcher.

[shMerker]

Yeah I don't think there was really any question about that. It's just odd that Pirate Ship isn't worded a little more carefully.

[AJD]

It's just odd that Pirate Ship isn't worded a little more carefully.

Rather, it's odd that the Guilds cards aren't worded in such a way as not to sound the same as Pirate Ship.

[werothegreat]

VP tokens and coin tokens should be doable in my opinion for a treasure chest expansion. The biggest problem is the potion-cost card for Alchemy. I guess if there is only one potion-cost card it won't be too problematic.

Since Potions are included in the Base Cards, I don't see this as a problem at all.

[kn1tt3r]

I don't think it's a problem at all to have a treasure chest thing you can only use in parts if you don't have all the prior expanisons. Just look at 7 Wonders: Cities - there you also have additional leaders you just cannot use without the prior Leaders expansion.

[Schlippy]

Why not simply include another 16 Potion cards in the Treasure chest?

There is more than enough physical space in a box for it. Sure, it increases the price a little because you might have to do 4 extra blanks, but who cares?

[NoMoreFun]

Why not simply include another 16 Potion cards in the Treasure chest?

There is more than enough physical space in a box for it. Sure, it increases the price a little because you might have to do 4 extra blanks, but who cares?

There's only 16 potions in alchemy to round out the box. You could probably get away with having 6 potions in the box unless you make a card that seriously incentivises getting additional potions (like Aqua Vitae from the design contest)

[Warfreak2]

a card that seriously incentivises getting additional potions

Or one that gives them to your opponents!

As an aside, the supply piles are all the same size (except Rats for obvious reasons) even though the Fishing Villages will usually get run down and the Counting Houses won't, simply because DXV didn't want the size of the pile to suggest how many you should buy.

[eHalcyon]

Why not simply include another 16 Potion cards in the Treasure chest?

There is more than enough physical space in a box for it. Sure, it increases the price a little because you might have to do 4 extra blanks, but who cares?

There's only 16 potions in alchemy to round out the box. You could probably get away with having 6 potions in the box unless you make a card that seriously incentivises getting additional potions (like Aqua Vitae from the design contest)

AV doesn't really want more potions. It wants more Copper. Maybe 2 potions to get more AVs.