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[michaeljb]

Anyone here use it? I started learning the layout a little while ago, and can touch type the whole alphabet for the first time today, though at a rate very much lower than my qwerty speed.

[Kirian]

Anyone here use it? I started learning the layout a little while ago, and can touch type the whole alphabet for the first time today, though at a rate very much lower than my qwerty speed.

I tried it once for a few months.  I went from look-typing at 90 wpm to touch-typing at 20 wpm.  In an age when ICQ conversations made up a good chunk of my days, 20 wpm wasn't cutting it.

I still look at they keyboard while typing for part of the time, though I usually can look for just a moment to readjust my finger positions.

[eHalcyon]

Anyone here use it? I started learning the layout a little while ago, and can touch type the whole alphabet for the first time today, though at a rate very much lower than my qwerty speed.

I tried it once for a few months.  I went from look-typing at 90 wpm to touch-typing at 20 wpm.  In an age when ICQ conversations made up a good chunk of my days, 20 wpm wasn't cutting it.

I still look at they keyboard while typing for part of the time, though I usually can look for just a moment to readjust my finger positions.

Did you know that (on QWERTY) the F and J keys have little bumps on them for your index fingers to find?  They let you readjust your position without looking.

A bunch of my friends switched to Dvorak a while ago but I wasn't up for it.  Still on QWERTY.  I touch type around 80 WPM, I think.  Could probably go a fair amount higher if I'm really trying, but then I'd start to make mistakes.

[Kirian]

Did you know that (on QWERTY) the F and J keys have little bumps on them for your index fingers to find?  They let you readjust your position without looking.

I did know that!  It doesn't work though, because I don't use "standard" finger positioning.  I will often use the "wrong" fingers for what I type, because by now typing certain words is partially muscle memory.  But since I don't actually use the home row in a way that's meaningful, finding F and J isn't that useful to me.  It's significantly faster for me to not touch-type than to attempt to touch-type and continually go back and correct my mistakes.

[Grujah]

Had it switched for few months last year. Was typing slower, but started to ramp up the speed with daily exercises.

Main problem was switching back and forth when using different computers (and uni, and back home, and such) which was mentally painful. So, I had to switch back.

Even worse was when I tried forcing myself to use my right hand (I am all-leftie), using mouse extensively with my right for extended time (like, Diablo 2 sessions) actually caused headaches.

[eHalcyon]

Did you know that (on QWERTY) the F and J keys have little bumps on them for your index fingers to find?  They let you readjust your position without looking.

I did know that!  It doesn't work though, because I don't use "standard" finger positioning.  I will often use the "wrong" fingers for what I type, because by now typing certain words is partially muscle memory.  But since I don't actually use the home row in a way that's meaningful, finding F and J isn't that useful to me.  It's significantly faster for me to not touch-type than to attempt to touch-type and continually go back and correct my mistakes.

90 wpm look-typing with non-standard positioning is funky.  What kind of positioning do you use?  Like, do you hover more around the top row?

[eHalcyon]

Had it switched for few months last year. Was typing slower, but started to ramp up the speed with daily exercises.

Main problem was switching back and forth when using different computers (and uni, and back home, and such) which was mentally painful. So, I had to switch back.

Even worse was when I tried forcing myself to use my right hand (I am all-leftie), using mouse extensively with my right for extended time (like, Diablo 2 sessions) actually caused headaches.

Not sure if it helps, but ctrl+shift will switch layouts if you have multiple layouts installed.  Assuming the shortcut isn't disabled somehow.

Also -- weird!  I am a lefty in everything (writing, kicking, throwing, you name it) except I am just fine using a mouse with my right hand.  I've always done so.  I can't remember if it felt weird when I first started using a computer, but trying to use a mouse with my left hand now feels weird.

[Grujah]

O yeah, while I have the correct position and all, some of the keys I typed incorrectly (wrong fingers, mainly not using my pinkies), I did it all correct on Dvorak.

Also learned how to dissembler laptop keyboard in record time.

[Grujah]

Had it switched for few months last year. Was typing slower, but started to ramp up the speed with daily exercises.

Main problem was switching back and forth when using different computers (and uni, and back home, and such) which was mentally painful. So, I had to switch back.

Even worse was when I tried forcing myself to use my right hand (I am all-leftie), using mouse extensively with my right for extended time (like, Diablo 2 sessions) actually caused headaches.

Not sure if it helps, but ctrl+shift will switch layouts if you have multiple layouts installed.  Assuming the shortcut isn't disabled somehow.

Also -- weird!  I am a lefty in everything (writing, kicking, throwing, you name it) except I am just fine using a mouse with my right hand.  I've always done so.  I can't remember if it felt weird when I first started using a computer, but trying to use a mouse with my left hand now feels weird.

Yeah, but I was still unable to type Dvorak "blind", so that wouldn't help.

Plus, I have it bound to "Super" key ("Windows" key).

[eHalcyon]

Has anyone ever tried Frogpad?  I haven't.

[Kirian]

Did you know that (on QWERTY) the F and J keys have little bumps on them for your index fingers to find?  They let you readjust your position without looking.

I did know that!  It doesn't work though, because I don't use "standard" finger positioning.  I will often use the "wrong" fingers for what I type, because by now typing certain words is partially muscle memory.  But since I don't actually use the home row in a way that's meaningful, finding F and J isn't that useful to me.  It's significantly faster for me to not touch-type than to attempt to touch-type and continually go back and correct my mistakes.

90 wpm look-typing with non-standard positioning is funky.  What kind of positioning do you use?  Like, do you hover more around the top row?

I hover around the top row a lot, I will wander back and forth, etc.  Depending on what word I'm typing I'll hit shift with a ring finger, cross over to hit R or T with my right hand or N with my left, use middle finger for S and index for D, F, and G, etc... probably favoring my right hand and hitting fewer letter with my left hand, now that I really look at what I'm doing, I'm definitely more likely to hit B with my right hand than my left, and equally likely to hit T with my right as my left, depending on what other letters are needed in the word I'm typing.

Note that 90 wpm is for extemporaneous typing only; if I'm forced to copy something I drop to 60-70 wpm because of the look problem.

[Kirian]

Has anyone ever tried Frogpad?  I haven't.

I'll never understand anyone who isn't an amputee using that sort of thing.

[Grujah]

Also -- weird!  I am a lefty in everything (writing, kicking, throwing, you name it) except I am just fine using a mouse with my right hand.  I've always done so.  I can't remember if it felt weird when I first started using a computer, but trying to use a mouse with my left hand now feels weird.

Yeah, I am one of the few lefties that does that. Some games suffer from it, I cannot use WSAD + Space as effectively. It worst at public computers when I cannot pull the mouse to the other side of the keyboard. Urgh.

[eHalcyon]

Also -- weird!  I am a lefty in everything (writing, kicking, throwing, you name it) except I am just fine using a mouse with my right hand.  I've always done so.  I can't remember if it felt weird when I first started using a computer, but trying to use a mouse with my left hand now feels weird.

Yeah, I am one of the few lefties that does that. Some games suffer from it, I cannot use WSAD + Space as effectively. It worst at public computers when I cannot pull the mouse to the other side of the keyboard. Urgh.

Most games should let you bind wasd to ijkl, I think.

[Kuildeous]

Most games should let you bind wasd to ijkl, I think.

I use a qwerty keyboard, and I never use factory settings for games. I know there is WASD, but I replace those with Mouse1HJK.

So, remapping a game shouldn’t be a problem. I don't recall playing a FPS where I couldn't map it. If I find one, I'd try my hardest to return the POS.

Never tried Dvorak. I feel like I should at least give it a shot.

[cayvie]

Most games should let you bind wasd to ijkl, I think.

I single bind with Z and X, and Up-arrow for brake, dammit >:|

[theory]

Most games should let you bind wasd to ijkl, I think.

I use a qwerty keyboard, and I never use factory settings for games. I know there is WASD, but I replace those with Mouse1HJK.

So, remapping a game shouldn’t be a problem. I don't recall playing a FPS where I couldn't map it. If I find one, I'd try my hardest to return the POS.

Never tried Dvorak. I feel like I should at least give it a shot.

Dude, that sounds crazy.  I am ESDF and I never understood why you'd use anything else.  It's the default position of your hand, after all.

[Kuildeous]

Dude, that sounds crazy.  I am ESDF and I never understood why you'd use anything else.  It's the default position of your hand, after all.

I like having utility keys handy. I use H and K for strafing, but I don't like to stand still, so I use the Mouse1 to move while fiddling with I, O, Y, M, and others for various tasks.

It does well for me, but I did run into some confusion with Assassin's Creed. I will have to put more thought into it for AC2.

[Davio]

I want to use it, being a programmer by trade, but unfortunately I don't really have the time to switch over. I mean, I can't really learn it when I'm working at a customer, that's not what they pay me for.

After 20 years of using Qwerty, I'm afraid I'm Qwerty for life.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I hover around the top row a lot, I will wander back and forth, etc.  Depending on what word I'm typing I'll hit shift with a ring finger, cross over to hit R or T with my right hand or N with my left, use middle finger for S and index for D, F, and G, etc... probably favoring my right hand and hitting fewer letter with my left hand, now that I really look at what I'm doing, I'm definitely more likely to hit B with my right hand than my left, and equally likely to hit T with my right as my left, depending on what other letters are needed in the word I'm typing.

Note that 90 wpm is for extemporaneous typing only; if I'm forced to copy something I drop to 60-70 wpm because of the look problem.

I'm trying to imagine this, and I picture you typing like you're playing a piano

I am ESDF and I never understood why you'd use anything else.  It's the default position of your hand, after all.

But then Ctrl is too far away.
Ctrl key tangents: I hate the Ctrl key. It's in a terrible place for your fingers, and for this reason I refuse to use Emacs. I know I should switch it with Caps Lock and occasionally try for a day or two, but then I have too much muscle memory built up using it in that position to make it seem worth it.
A famous pro Starcraft player has found an interesting way to use the Ctrl key. He took out the Windows key and presses it with the underside of his first pinky knuckle (at the corner of his palm). Weird stuff:

[chogg]

I switched for about 6 months. Got nearly as fast as with QWERTY, and I felt it was more comfortable.

Ultimately, I switched back for Vim.

[ycz6]

I use Dvorak exclusively my main laptop but am comfortable with QWERTY and can do ~90 wpm with either. I also learned Emacs this summer.

Not sure if it helps, but ctrl+shift will switch layouts if you have multiple layouts installed.  Assuming the shortcut isn't disabled somehow.

It's Alt-Shift on my Windows computer.

[Schlippy]

I am using NEO, which is kind of hardcore dvorak for germans. :>

To get a rough idea, go to the page and put the mouse on the "Ebene X" buttons.
http://www.neo-layout.org/

[Grujah]

I want to use it, being a programmer by trade, but unfortunately I don't really have the time to switch over. I mean, I can't really learn it when I'm working at a customer, that's not what they pay me for.

After 20 years of using Qwerty, I'm afraid I'm Qwerty for life.

IIRC, at least on normal Dvorak, { and } are very badly positioned, any C-like is a pain

[Davio]

I want to use it, being a programmer by trade, but unfortunately I don't really have the time to switch over. I mean, I can't really learn it when I'm working at a customer, that's not what they pay me for.

After 20 years of using Qwerty, I'm afraid I'm Qwerty for life.

IIRC, at least on normal Dvorak, { and } are very badly positioned, any C-like is a pain

Yeah, but there's a programmer's layout I thought.....googling....waiting for results....zing bleep bloop.

Here: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/index.html