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Author Topic: The Mystery Hand  (Read 3710 times)

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aaron0013

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The Mystery Hand
« on: August 23, 2012, 07:50:36 pm »
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Alright!  This is a pretty easy puzzle, but its also my first, so well see who can guess it first.

It is your turn.  You have a hand of five cards.  Only one of them is an action, and you do not play any actions after it (sorry scout lovers).  After finishing your turn, you have gained exactly 12 victory points, and your opponent has lost 1 victory point.  No alternate victory cards, Contrabands, or DA cards are used or taken into account.

What were the five cards in your hand?
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Grujah

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2012, 07:57:28 pm »
+2

Easy.

Plat, Plat, Masq, Curse, Curse.

You play Masq, Draw anything, give a Curse to your opponent, he gives you a Copper. You trash your Curse.

Or You have a Copper instead of a curse, draw Silver/anything, give him copper, get Estate, trash your curse.
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AJD

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2012, 08:02:57 pm »
+1

Different answer from Grujah's!

Hand is Torturer, Copper, Silver, Gold, Horn of Plenty.
Play Torturer, opponent takes Curse. Draw three more Horns of Plenty.
Play Copper, Silver, Gold.
Play four Horns of Plenty, gaining a Duchy off each one.
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2012, 08:04:38 pm »
+1

Or you could have something like

Amb-Curse-Curse, Philo Stone x2 with enough other cards that the stones are worth $6 each.

Return 2 Curses to supply.  Buy Colony.
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razorborne

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2012, 08:28:15 pm »
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there's a couple ways to do it with DA cards. for instance, Squire and enough money to get $21, which is pretty easy with a combination of ventures, banks, and platinums. then you buy two Provinces and an IGG.
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DWetzel

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2012, 08:58:12 pm »
+3

I would have gone with:

Bishop, 2-cost card, enough $ to buy Colony

Bishop trashes 2 cost card, opponent trashes Estate.
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aaron0013

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 09:41:46 pm »
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Very good. I like the variety....there are a lot that I hadn't thought of.  The only one I don't get is how Grujah's gets him +2 VP.

My original thought was Platinum, Venture, Curse, Curse, Ambassador.

Play the Ambassador returning 2 Curses to the supply and giving opponent a curse. Play the Venture, draw a Platinum, and buy a Colony.
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Powerman

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 09:47:08 pm »
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Followers - Gold - Gold - Gold - Gold
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 09:47:27 pm »
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Very good. I like the variety....there are a lot that I hadn't thought of.  The only one I don't get is how Grujah's gets him +2 VP.

My original thought was Platinum, Venture, Curse, Curse, Ambassador.

Play the Ambassador returning 2 Curses to the supply and giving opponent a curse. Play the Venture, draw a Platinum, and buy a Colony.


Grujah uses Masquerade to pass one Curse to the opponent and then trash the second Curse.  Then he buys a Colony.

10 - 2*(-1) == 12

In his alternate solution, the opponent passes him an Estate, which gives him +1 and his opponent -1, and then he trashes his curse for another +1.  Of course, in that situation he should probably have passes the Curse to begin with, so the opponent would take -2.


Maybe a more interesting, open-ended puzzle would be: From a 5-card hand containing only one action card (and not playing any actions besides that one), what is the largest point swing you can create in just that one turn?
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 09:48:05 pm »
+1

Followers - Gold - Gold - Gold - Gold

Wouldn't that only give you 11 points?
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DWetzel

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2012, 10:34:51 pm »
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Maybe a more interesting, open-ended puzzle would be: From a 5-card hand containing only one action card (and not playing any actions besides that one), what is the largest point swing you can create in just that one turn?

My best early effort: 51.

Margrave, 4x Plat.  Play Margrave, draw Venture, Contraband, Contraband, and a frustrated opponent who just wants the game to end and won't deny you Colonies or Provinces.  Venture hits 9 more Ventures and then a Platinum.  Total 20+3+3+10+5=$41.  Buy 3x Colony and a Province.  I happen to have 8 Gardens and 7 Silk Roads in my deck -- can't have 8 of each or the game would be over with 10 Ventures -- and this puts me over the threshold for both Gardens and Silk Roads, giving me 8 more Gardens points and 7 more Silk Roads points.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 10:37:29 pm by DWetzel »
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Grujah

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 10:35:53 pm »
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Counterfeit can help there?
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DWetzel

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 10:37:59 pm »
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Probably, haven't given it any thought.  Have at it.  I modified my answer a bit for maximum first-level cheesiness.

Edit: okay, change two Platinums to Counterfeits I guess?  That gets us another two buys and $2, which is only enough for another Estate -- but that could in turn trigger more Silk Roads goodness for 2 points each, so make it 7 Gardens and 8 Silk Roads (7+8+8 point bump) plus the 36 points from Colony/Colony/Colony/Province, plus one Estate...

New total: 60

Edit to further add: OK, I guess there's no rule that says this can't be a 3-player game, so make that 11 +12+12

72

Edit to further further add:

And if I have 11 Fairgrounds too, and this triggers a bump from acquiring a new level of cards, that's 22 more, so

94?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 10:43:10 pm by DWetzel »
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2012, 10:52:49 pm »
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Maybe a more interesting, open-ended puzzle would be: From a 5-card hand containing only one action card (and not playing any actions besides that one), what is the largest point swing you can create in just that one turn?

My best early effort: 36.

Margrave, 4x Plat.  Play Margrave, draw Venture, Contraband, Contraband, and a frustrated opponent who just wants the game to end and won't deny you Colonies or Provinces.  Venture hits 9 more Ventures and then a Platinum.  Total 20+3+3+10+5=$41.  Buy 3x Colony and a Province.

Using Grujah's suggestion with DWetzel's concept, I can get up to 52 points (and it can probably be optimized further):

Margrave, 3xCounterfeit, Venture.  Play Margrave, draw 3xVenture.

Counterfeit-Counterfeit-Counterfeit means you played 5 Counterfeits in total and can still double-play 4 treasures.  Hit the 4 Ventures, drawing 8 Platinum (after chaining the other 6 Ventures, of course).

So you played:

Margrave == +1 Buy
5 Counterfeit played == $5, +5 Buys
4*2 + 6 Venture == $14
8 Platinum = $40

$59 with 6 Buys, for 5 Colonies and an Island, 52 points.


Random thought -- we should make an assumption about the existing deck, e.g. no other green, no other cards other than whatever you use (or else SR and Gardens could be almost arbitrarily large).

Edit: Dwetzel already sort of went down the Gardens path.  I don't think that's necessary, or else we could just figure out how to maximize buys and then just do all the Gardens/SR/Fairgrounds shenanigans... and that's already covered in a different puzzle! :P

Edit2: A slightly different take on those "deck already has X" assumptions:

I could tweak my solution above such that, instead of hitting two Platinum, two of those chains could hit two Counterfeits (or Contrabands if we want) to get +8 Buys.  If using Counterfeit, assume it isn't used to play any treasure twice.  So then that $59 drops to $51.

That's enough to buy 8 Duchies.  Suppose we already have 8 Dukes.  Then it's an 88 point swing... before factoring in SR, Gardens and Fairgrounds. ;)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 10:59:09 pm by eHalcyon »
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DWetzel

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2012, 11:13:06 pm »
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And by 8 Dukes you of course meant 12:)
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2012, 11:17:36 pm »
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And by 8 Dukes you of course meant 12:)

Well if that were the case then I'd feel compelled to optimize further so I could buy all 12 Duchies.  But I don't want to do that.

If you want super multiplayer shenanigans, you could probably do something like

With Trader/Watchtower in hand, Ambassador an IGG.

If we pretend that piles are infinite, then the point difference would be infinite for infinite players. ;)
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aaron0013

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2012, 11:19:19 pm »
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Using the original rules (no alt. VP or DA cards etc.) is there any way to get over 20 VP?
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2012, 11:22:45 pm »
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Using the original rules (no alt. VP or DA cards etc.) is there any way to get over 20 VP?

If you cut out the alt VP, DWetzel's solution gives 36.
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Grujah

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2012, 11:28:39 pm »
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Which would be much stronger if he replaced Plats with Banks, I guess?
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2012, 11:32:32 pm »
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Masquerade, Curse, 3xVenture.  Masquerade draws 2xPlatinum.

Your opponent has such a Green hand that he passes you a Colony.  You pass the Curse.  22 point swing right there!

The Ventures all hit Ventures and then Contrabands.  Your opponent is so upset that he doesn't ban Colony or Duchy.

10 Venture = $10
3 Contraband = $9 (and 3 buys)
2 Platinum = $10

$29 total

Buy 2 Colonies and a Duchy.


45 point swing.

PPE: Oh snap, Bank.  Probably helps DWetzel's solution more than this one.

(Edit for slight error.)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 11:34:47 pm by eHalcyon »
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DWetzel

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2012, 11:39:58 pm »
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Bank exists?

keanureevesface.jpg

Oh, yeah, bank.  Still need to get more buys though, but that would pretty definitely make it 40. 
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razorborne

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2012, 12:03:13 am »
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Masquerade, Curse, 3xVenture.  Masquerade draws 2xPlatinum.

Your opponent has such a Green hand that he passes you a Colony.  You pass the Curse.  22 point swing right there!

The Ventures all hit Ventures and then Contrabands.  Your opponent is so upset that he doesn't ban Colony or Duchy.

10 Venture = $10
3 Contraband = $9 (and 3 buys)
2 Platinum = $10

$29 total

Buy 2 Colonies and a Duchy.


45 point swing.

PPE: Oh snap, Bank.  Probably helps DWetzel's solution more than this one.

(Edit for slight error.)
the original rule set said no Contraband.
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2012, 12:48:46 am »
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the original rule set said no Contraband.

So it does!  OK then.  That means you can only ever get 2 Buys in a turn, which means 22 points max I think.  And that would be doable with just three cards.

Goons, Venture Venture/Platinum
Venture hits every other Venture and then Platinum
You either have second Plat or second Venture in hand, which hits Plat.

10 Venture + 2 Plat = $20, buy 2 Colonies, get +2VP.

You actually have money left over from Goons and whatever other two cards you have in your hand.


To do better you would need more Buys.

Oh, but I guess you could also use the Masquerade solution I posted above.

Masquerade, Plat, Plat, Copper, Curse
Masquerade to pass Curse for Colony.
Buy Colony.


32 point swing.
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razorborne

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2012, 01:05:57 am »
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the original rule set said no Contraband.

So it does!  OK then.  That means you can only ever get 2 Buys in a turn, which means 22 points max I think.  And that would be doable with just three cards.

Goons, Venture Venture/Platinum
Venture hits every other Venture and then Platinum
You either have second Plat or second Venture in hand, which hits Plat.

10 Venture + 2 Plat = $20, buy 2 Colonies, get +2VP.

You actually have money left over from Goons and whatever other two cards you have in your hand.


To do better you would need more Buys.

Oh, but I guess you could also use the Masquerade solution I posted above.

Masquerade, Plat, Plat, Copper, Curse
Masquerade to pass Curse for Colony.
Buy Colony.


32 point swing.
yeah, far as I can tell that's the limit, with contraband, DA, and alt victory banned. I can't think of a way to use an action for more than a 22-point swing. adding DA doesn't help unless you include counterfeit. in which case, with Goons as your action, you can get a 10-venture chain, end with a Counterfeit, play a Counterfeit twice, using one to play counterfeit twice and the other to play bank twice, netting a total of $41 if I did my math right, which is three colonies and a province, plus two coppers for the goons points, which is 42 points. I feel like you could do better with council room though, it gives you more banks.
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Mystery Hand
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2012, 01:49:13 am »
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Solutions above using Counterfeit/Contraband already been that score, razorborne!  And (for my solutions at least) that wasn't even counting alt VP.  Nor were they optimized, since I didn't make use of Bank.  And yeah, whoops, Council Room is definitely better than Margrave -- that would allow further wildness.
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