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Author Topic: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic  (Read 30052 times)

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elkabong

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2012, 09:41:35 am »
0

I know that decisions have been made and all, but I would personally enjoy a solitaire-only version of Isotropic, because that is really one of two reasons why I am any good at this game at all. Not sure if anyone else feels the same about this.

I would like an offline solitaire version, maybe with a bot (rudimentary, advanced, whatever).  I play Androminion way more than I should.

By the way, congrats on your new blue star. :)
Dunno what dougz is going to do with the code, but if he removes the card names I can totally see you/us playing solitaire isotropic on a local server in a few months, or see GendoIkari playing with his wife in a local network.
If he could be convinced to remove all the card-names from the game and release the code, you'd be 100% laughing.  Unfortunately, I think he is tied in some way to the developers (Donald et al) and the distributors (Jay et al), so I doubt he will do that. 

The mechanics of games are not protectable by copyright, so the game could simply be brought back to life with a new name, and all new card names.   Oh, how sweet that would be. 
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WanderingWinder

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2012, 09:43:55 am »
+2

I know that decisions have been made and all, but I would personally enjoy a solitaire-only version of Isotropic, because that is really one of two reasons why I am any good at this game at all. Not sure if anyone else feels the same about this.

I would like an offline solitaire version, maybe with a bot (rudimentary, advanced, whatever).  I play Androminion way more than I should.

By the way, congrats on your new blue star. :)
Dunno what dougz is going to do with the code, but if he removes the card names I can totally see you/us playing solitaire isotropic on a local server in a few months, or see GendoIkari playing with his wife in a local network.
If he could be convinced to remove all the card-names from the game and release the code, you'd be 100% laughing.  Unfortunately, I think he is tied in some way to the developers (Donald et al) and the distributors (Jay et al), so I doubt he will do that. 

The mechanics of games are not protectable by copyright, so the game could simply be brought back to life with a new name, and all new card names.   Oh, how sweet that would be. 
Except I don't really feel like doing something so sticking-it-to Donald.

polonkus

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2012, 09:47:20 am »
0

I know that decisions have been made and all, but I would personally enjoy a solitaire-only version of Isotropic, because that is really one of two reasons why I am any good at this game at all. Not sure if anyone else feels the same about this.

I would like an offline solitaire version, maybe with a bot (rudimentary, advanced, whatever).  I play Androminion way more than I should.

By the way, congrats on your new blue star. :)
Dunno what dougz is going to do with the code, but if he removes the card names I can totally see you/us playing solitaire isotropic on a local server in a few months, or see GendoIkari playing with his wife in a local network.
If he could be convinced to remove all the card-names from the game and release the code, you'd be 100% laughing.  Unfortunately, I think he is tied in some way to the developers (Donald et al) and the distributors (Jay et al), so I doubt he will do that. 

The mechanics of games are not protectable by copyright, so the game could simply be brought back to life with a new name, and all new card names.   Oh, how sweet that would be. 
Except I don't really feel like doing something so sticking-it-to Donald.
I'd be fine with it. Kick him some money if you really feel bad.
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yudantaiteki

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2012, 10:04:19 am »
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I'm pretty sure you would have to do more than just change the names of the cards to avoid legal problems.
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polonkus

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2012, 10:07:47 am »
0

I'm pretty sure you would have to do more than just change the names of the cards to avoid legal problems.

Yes, you'd need a new name and new art.
But you can't copyright something like "+2 cards +1 action", and copyright law specifically excludes game rules.
This is half the reason RGG has been so "cool" about unauthorized apps.
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Tombolo

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2012, 11:13:56 am »
0

I know that decisions have been made and all, but I would personally enjoy a solitaire-only version of Isotropic, because that is really one of two reasons why I am any good at this game at all. Not sure if anyone else feels the same about this.

I would like an offline solitaire version, maybe with a bot (rudimentary, advanced, whatever).  I play Androminion way more than I should.

By the way, congrats on your new blue star. :)
Dunno what dougz is going to do with the code, but if he removes the card names I can totally see you/us playing solitaire isotropic on a local server in a few months, or see GendoIkari playing with his wife in a local network.
If he could be convinced to remove all the card-names from the game and release the code, you'd be 100% laughing.  Unfortunately, I think he is tied in some way to the developers (Donald et al) and the distributors (Jay et al), so I doubt he will do that. 

The mechanics of games are not protectable by copyright, so the game could simply be brought back to life with a new name, and all new card names.   Oh, how sweet that would be. 
Except I don't really feel like doing something so sticking-it-to Donald.

Are we even sticking it to Donald at that point?  I mean, he asked us not to do stuff like that, so I for one won't, but didn't he also say something about how he might not be getting any money out of the whole goko thing?
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FireChipmunks

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2012, 11:14:50 am »
+2

So if we just change all the names, art, and terminology, it's legal? So we could create a game called, like, Farminion, where village gives you +1 Animal (because each card in your hand is an animal now) and +2 Cows, (because cows give milk, which makes you strong and lets you do more things) and the village is renamed to "Cow Pasture"? And "+Buy" can be renamed to "+Tame"...because you're taming the wild animals. The kingdom btw is just called the set of wild animals now, and your deck is your farm!
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2012, 11:17:16 am »
+2

So if we just change all the names, art, and terminology, it's legal? So we could create a game called, like, Farminion, where village gives you +1 Animal (because each card in your hand is an animal now) and +2 Cows, (because cows give milk, which makes you strong and lets you do more things) and the village is renamed to "Cow Pasture"? And "+Buy" can be renamed to "+Tame"...because you're taming the wild animals. The kingdom btw is just called the set of wild animals now, and your deck is your farm!

IANAL, but my understanding is that this would be legal, but possibly dickish.
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Karrow

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2012, 12:31:54 pm »
0

So if we just change all the names, art,

Stop right there.  That's all you need, new names and art.  Game mechanics are supposedly not able to be patented.

Look at all the Tetris clones out there.   Charge the art and name, then your good to go.

Now Isotropic would never intentionally publish their code, but lets just say it could be accidentally ;) and completely unintentionally ;) leaked.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 12:35:42 pm by Karrow »
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popsofctown

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2012, 12:41:35 pm »
0

So if we just change all the names, art, and terminology, it's legal? So we could create a game called, like, Farminion, where village gives you +1 Animal (because each card in your hand is an animal now) and +2 Cows, (because cows give milk, which makes you strong and lets you do more things) and the village is renamed to "Cow Pasture"? And "+Buy" can be renamed to "+Tame"...because you're taming the wild animals. The kingdom btw is just called the set of wild animals now, and your deck is your farm!

IANAL, but my understanding is that this would be legal, but possibly dickish.

When I've already paid for intellectual property once, I really don't feel like I want to pay for it again..  My code of ethics compels me to buy IP at least once, but it doesn't compel me to buy it a second time.
The law doesn't compel me to buy this IP even once, apparently, since game mechanics are difficult to copyright. Lab probably shouldn't be copyrightable, but releasing Masquerade and Duke's mechanics both in the same set probably should be.  But it isn't. 
If someone built an online zombinion and I had already bought the paper version of all the cards it used, I would not feel bad for using it.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2012, 12:43:03 pm »
0

So if we just change all the names, art, and terminology, it's legal? So we could create a game called, like, Farminion, where village gives you +1 Animal (because each card in your hand is an animal now) and +2 Cows, (because cows give milk, which makes you strong and lets you do more things) and the village is renamed to "Cow Pasture"? And "+Buy" can be renamed to "+Tame"...because you're taming the wild animals. The kingdom btw is just called the set of wild animals now, and your deck is your farm!

IANAL, but my understanding is that this would be legal, but possibly dickish.

When I've already paid for intellectual property once, I really don't feel like I want to pay for it again..  My code of ethics compels me to buy IP at least once, but it doesn't compel me to buy it a second time.
The law doesn't compel me to buy this IP even once, apparently, since game mechanics are difficult to copyright. Lab probably shouldn't be copyrightable, but releasing Masquerade and Duke's mechanics both in the same set probably should be.  But it isn't. 
If someone built an online zombinion and I had already bought the paper version of all the cards it used, I would not feel bad for using it.

I would probably feel compelled to give goko my money before I used online zombiminion.
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popsofctown

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2012, 12:46:33 pm »
0

So if we just change all the names, art, and terminology, it's legal? So we could create a game called, like, Farminion, where village gives you +1 Animal (because each card in your hand is an animal now) and +2 Cows, (because cows give milk, which makes you strong and lets you do more things) and the village is renamed to "Cow Pasture"? And "+Buy" can be renamed to "+Tame"...because you're taming the wild animals. The kingdom btw is just called the set of wild animals now, and your deck is your farm!

IANAL, but my understanding is that this would be legal, but possibly dickish.

When I've already paid for intellectual property once, I really don't feel like I want to pay for it again..  My code of ethics compels me to buy IP at least once, but it doesn't compel me to buy it a second time.
The law doesn't compel me to buy this IP even once, apparently, since game mechanics are difficult to copyright. Lab probably shouldn't be copyrightable, but releasing Masquerade and Duke's mechanics both in the same set probably should be.  But it isn't. 
If someone built an online zombinion and I had already bought the paper version of all the cards it used, I would not feel bad for using it.

I would probably feel compelled to give goko my money before I used online zombiminion.
I don't.  But I'm open to being sold on why I should.  I feel like once I've paid for the mechanics of Dominion in some form, I've paid for the mechanics of dominion.  If I want to convert it to bag of chips, online play, or a version with dice, it doesn't matter, I've already given Donald money for coming up with the mechanics, through RGG.  Doing so through Goko alternatively would be fine too, if I bought all the cards there.

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Captain_Frisk

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2012, 12:55:41 pm »
0

I'd almost it as DVD vs. BluRay.  If I own a DVD - i have no moral issue pirating a lower fidelity reason (as I could just rip it myself).  But if I pirated the Bluray rip - then I'm receiving a higher quality product than what I actually paid for.

Now - online dominion in many ways is better than real life dominion... maybe?

If I play online zombiminion in place of gokominion - then I'm actually taking money away from goko.  They paid for the exclusive rights for dominion - and should be entitled to reap the rewards of that savvy business strategy.

Because I don't like how the whole thing has gone down - I suspect I'd probably just piss and moan on the internet and play tribes instead.
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popsofctown

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2012, 12:59:01 pm »
0

The blu-ray has IP on it that you didn't pay for yet - the little bits showing you the stitches on James Bond's coat or whatever.  You can't use the basic DVD to create a blu-ray version.

I can use paper dominion to create zombinion online.
That's the dif to me
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WanderingWinder

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2012, 01:01:15 pm »
0

The blu-ray has IP on it that you didn't pay for yet - the little bits showing you the stitches on James Bond's coat or whatever.  You can't use the basic DVD to create a blu-ray version.

I can use paper dominion to create zombinion online.
That's the dif to me
Your logic seems inconsistent. If you want to the crispness of Bond's coat, why not say that paper dominion doesn't hold any electronic stuff? I mean, I can use the lower resolution to make the high-res thing to, it's just a lot of time and work.

blueblimp

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2012, 01:01:57 pm »
0

This ship has sailed, iso is going away, stop making threads like this.  Seriously.  Donald X has signed with Goko, there's nothing that really can be done about that, even if he wanted to.
Buying FunSockets could change it, but the price tag for that would be fairly large. :P
Yes, I am sure of that.  I believe Funsockets to be created almost ENTIRELY as a company designed to be sold.  I would be  very surprised if they aren't sold to Zynga or some other online behemoth within the year. 

They have done everything to indicate this.  Minimal development costs (hey, who needs project managers?!?!)  .  Minimal licensing costs with maximum license names.  And unbelievable app costs, all based on the very waste-creating "coins" system.  THey have been designed from the ground-up, simply to be sold.
I see it the opposite way. Internet companies that want to be bought don't seem to care much about making money, instead going for a large user count. That means low prices or even free, possibly even free with no ads. The idea is that, once bought, the buyer can monetize the users. If you have a small, stable number of users who are paying a reasonable price, then there's no room to make more money.

FunSockets might get bought, but I don't think they're planning on it.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2012, 01:02:33 pm »
0

The blu-ray has IP on it that you didn't pay for yet - the little bits showing you the stitches on James Bond's coat or whatever.  You can't use the basic DVD to create a blu-ray version.

I can use paper dominion to create zombinion online.
That's the dif to me
Your logic seems inconsistent. If you want to the crispness of Bond's coat, why not say that paper dominion doesn't hold any electronic stuff? I mean, I can use the lower resolution to make the high-res thing to, it's just a lot of time and work.

You could also use the DVD and a film crew to reshoot the entire movie.
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Kahryl

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2012, 01:03:31 pm »
0

I don't want to stick it to Donald either, and just because something is legal doesn't make it ethical.

On the other hand if things really are as bad as they look (Donald signing off 5 years of Dominion to wannabe-Zynga buffoons with a checkbook) it might end up the only option.

I am happy to pay - a lot - for the rights to use the game (and I have in the form of physical base set and two expansions), but I really am not willing to be monetized, socialized, or made to fuck around with fake currency.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 01:16:51 pm by Kahryl »
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popsofctown

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2012, 01:07:07 pm »
0

The blu-ray has IP on it that you didn't pay for yet - the little bits showing you the stitches on James Bond's coat or whatever.  You can't use the basic DVD to create a blu-ray version.

I can use paper dominion to create zombinion online.
That's the dif to me
Your logic seems inconsistent. If you want to the crispness of Bond's coat, why not say that paper dominion doesn't hold any electronic stuff? I mean, I can use the lower resolution to make the high-res thing to, it's just a lot of time and work.
How can you use the lower res thing to make the high res thing?  Do you mean by reshooting the movie? If you want to reshoot the movie, you won't get the exact same production, of course, Pierce Brosnan will never deliver the line the same exact way.  But it's fine for you to do that, you're just reusing the blocking, script,  screenplay, etc, that you already paid for. 

@Kahryal - Don't twist my words.  I said that I think playing Zombinion, after buying paper dominion, in full, is both legal and ethical.  I didn't say it was ethical because it was legal.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 01:08:22 pm by popsofctown »
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Tombolo

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2012, 01:12:33 pm »
0

(Donald signing off 5 years of Dominion to wannabe-Zynga buffons with a checkbook)

Isn't it more Jay's decision than Donald's?  I am under the impression that most of this is out of DXV's hands.
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Kahryl

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2012, 01:15:24 pm »
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@Kahryal - Don't twist my words.  I said that I think playing Zombinion, after buying paper dominion, in full, is both legal and ethical.  I didn't say it was ethical because it was legal.

I wasn't replying to you. In fact I only skimmed this topic and haven't read your arguments (though I will now!). Sorry if the timing of my post gave the wrong impression  :)
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2012, 01:35:45 pm »
+2

(Donald signing off 5 years of Dominion to wannabe-Zynga buffons with a checkbook)

Isn't it more Jay's decision than Donald's?  I am under the impression that most of this is out of DXV's hands.

If I understand it correctly it works like this:

Donald has leased / rented the (exclusive?) rights to Dominion in all forms to RGG for some period of time which is less than 5 years from today - presumably in exchange for some combination of upfront fixed monies, recurring fixed monies, and recurring % of profit / revenue monies.

RGG (Jay) has given the exclusive rights to digital dominion to Goko - in exchange for some form of compensation - which may or may not trickle down to Donald - depending on DX's contract with RGG.  As part of that agreement - RGG is revoking any tolerance for other digital implementations (on and offline)

There are rumors floating around around the goko deal being 5 years - but DXV has indicated that RGG can't license it further than his contract with them, which has less than 5 years remaining.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2012, 01:37:31 pm »
0

The blu-ray has IP on it that you didn't pay for yet - the little bits showing you the stitches on James Bond's coat or whatever.  You can't use the basic DVD to create a blu-ray version.

I can use paper dominion to create zombinion online.
That's the dif to me
Your logic seems inconsistent. If you want to the crispness of Bond's coat, why not say that paper dominion doesn't hold any electronic stuff? I mean, I can use the lower resolution to make the high-res thing to, it's just a lot of time and work.
How can you use the lower res thing to make the high res thing?  Do you mean by reshooting the movie? If you want to reshoot the movie, you won't get the exact same production, of course, Pierce Brosnan will never deliver the line the same exact way.  But it's fine for you to do that, you're just reusing the blocking, script,  screenplay, etc, that you already paid for. 
Really? That's fine? So if studio X want to remake huge summer blockbuster Y and release it next summer, that's fine?
If I buy a book, can I type it up word for word, and go get it published, and try to make it as an author?

polonkus

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2012, 01:43:08 pm »
0

The blu-ray has IP on it that you didn't pay for yet - the little bits showing you the stitches on James Bond's coat or whatever.  You can't use the basic DVD to create a blu-ray version.

I can use paper dominion to create zombinion online.
That's the dif to me
Your logic seems inconsistent. If you want to the crispness of Bond's coat, why not say that paper dominion doesn't hold any electronic stuff? I mean, I can use the lower resolution to make the high-res thing to, it's just a lot of time and work.
How can you use the lower res thing to make the high res thing?  Do you mean by reshooting the movie? If you want to reshoot the movie, you won't get the exact same production, of course, Pierce Brosnan will never deliver the line the same exact way.  But it's fine for you to do that, you're just reusing the blocking, script,  screenplay, etc, that you already paid for. 
Really? That's fine? So if studio X want to remake huge summer blockbuster Y and release it next summer, that's fine?
If I buy a book, can I type it up word for word, and go get it published, and try to make it as an author?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_and_Prejudice_and_Zombies
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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2012, 01:44:10 pm »
+1

The blu-ray has IP on it that you didn't pay for yet - the little bits showing you the stitches on James Bond's coat or whatever.  You can't use the basic DVD to create a blu-ray version.

I can use paper dominion to create zombinion online.
That's the dif to me
Your logic seems inconsistent. If you want to the crispness of Bond's coat, why not say that paper dominion doesn't hold any electronic stuff? I mean, I can use the lower resolution to make the high-res thing to, it's just a lot of time and work.
How can you use the lower res thing to make the high res thing?  Do you mean by reshooting the movie? If you want to reshoot the movie, you won't get the exact same production, of course, Pierce Brosnan will never deliver the line the same exact way.  But it's fine for you to do that, you're just reusing the blocking, script,  screenplay, etc, that you already paid for. 
Really? That's fine? So if studio X want to remake huge summer blockbuster Y and release it next summer, that's fine?
If I buy a book, can I type it up word for word, and go get it published, and try to make it as an author?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_and_Prejudice_and_Zombies

P&P is public domain.  To my knowledge - nothing new has entered public domain via the expiration of copyright in my lifetime.
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