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Author Topic: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic  (Read 30050 times)

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polonkus

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #75 on: August 23, 2012, 01:48:22 pm »
0

The blu-ray has IP on it that you didn't pay for yet - the little bits showing you the stitches on James Bond's coat or whatever.  You can't use the basic DVD to create a blu-ray version.

I can use paper dominion to create zombinion online.
That's the dif to me
Your logic seems inconsistent. If you want to the crispness of Bond's coat, why not say that paper dominion doesn't hold any electronic stuff? I mean, I can use the lower resolution to make the high-res thing to, it's just a lot of time and work.
How can you use the lower res thing to make the high res thing?  Do you mean by reshooting the movie? If you want to reshoot the movie, you won't get the exact same production, of course, Pierce Brosnan will never deliver the line the same exact way.  But it's fine for you to do that, you're just reusing the blocking, script,  screenplay, etc, that you already paid for. 
Really? That's fine? So if studio X want to remake huge summer blockbuster Y and release it next summer, that's fine?
If I buy a book, can I type it up word for word, and go get it published, and try to make it as an author?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_and_Prejudice_and_Zombies

P&P is public domain.  To my knowledge - nothing new has entered public domain via the expiration of copyright in my lifetime.

That's a separate issue - but we've already established that Zombinion online would not be prevented by copyright.
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Donald X.

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #76 on: August 23, 2012, 02:22:02 pm »
+4

P&P is public domain.  To my knowledge - nothing new has entered public domain via the expiration of copyright in my lifetime.
The way intellectual property works currently is really messed up. For sure, if you only owned your thing for say 20 years, that would not possibly stop any book/movie/record from getting made/distributed. Maybe once in a blue moon it would stop a Salinger from publishing, but hey he stopped publishing anyway.

Oops, my bad - this looks like a *political* discussion. Sry. Mods, plz move to RSP.
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #77 on: August 23, 2012, 02:26:02 pm »
+1

P&P is public domain.  To my knowledge - nothing new has entered public domain via the expiration of copyright in my lifetime.
The way intellectual property works currently is really messed up. For sure, if you only owned your thing for say 20 years, that would not possibly stop any book/movie/record from getting made/distributed. Maybe once in a blue moon it would stop a Salinger from publishing, but hey he stopped publishing anyway.

Oops, my bad - this looks like a *political* discussion. Sry. Mods, plz move to RSP.

Legalities aside, here's all that matters to me. Do I have your express permission to do something like taking Isotropic code and building some sort of clone with it where I could play online Dominion all I wanted in a LAN setting? Assuming that the answer is "no," or just that you'd prefer that such a thing didn't happen because it would take away from Rio Grande or yourself in any way, then that's all I need to know to not even consider doing or participating in such a thing.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #78 on: August 23, 2012, 02:27:09 pm »
+2

P&P is public domain.  To my knowledge - nothing new has entered public domain via the expiration of copyright in my lifetime.
The way intellectual property works currently is really messed up. For sure, if you only owned your thing for say 20 years, that would not possibly stop any book/movie/record from getting made/distributed. Maybe once in a blue moon it would stop a Salinger from publishing, but hey he stopped publishing anyway.

Oops, my bad - this looks like a *political* discussion. Sry. Mods, plz move to RSP.

Legalities aside, here's all that matters to me. Do I have your express permission to do something like taking Isotropic code and building some sort of clone with it where I could play online Dominion all I wanted in a LAN setting? Assuming that the answer is "no," or just that you'd prefer that such a thing didn't happen because it would take away from Rio Grande or yourself in any way, then that's all I need to know to not even consider doing or participating in such a thing.

I'll answer this for him.  He's already said that he isn't interested in having a debate with us on how much we can do before its officially dicking him over.
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #79 on: August 23, 2012, 02:28:39 pm »
+1

P&P is public domain.  To my knowledge - nothing new has entered public domain via the expiration of copyright in my lifetime.
The way intellectual property works currently is really messed up. For sure, if you only owned your thing for say 20 years, that would not possibly stop any book/movie/record from getting made/distributed. Maybe once in a blue moon it would stop a Salinger from publishing, but hey he stopped publishing anyway.

Oops, my bad - this looks like a *political* discussion. Sry. Mods, plz move to RSP.

Legalities aside, here's all that matters to me. Do I have your express permission to do something like taking Isotropic code and building some sort of clone with it where I could play online Dominion all I wanted in a LAN setting? Assuming that the answer is "no," or just that you'd prefer that such a thing didn't happen because it would take away from Rio Grande or yourself in any way, then that's all I need to know to not even consider doing or participating in such a thing.

I'll answer this for him.  He's already said that he isn't interested in having a debate with us on how much we can do before its officially dicking him over.

I know; and I meant for that to be phrased in such a way that I was saying that I assume the answer was no, and therefore I would not be participating in such a thing.
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Voltaire

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #80 on: August 23, 2012, 02:30:56 pm »
0

P&P is public domain.  To my knowledge - nothing new has entered public domain via the expiration of copyright in my lifetime.
The way intellectual property works currently is really messed up. For sure, if you only owned your thing for say 20 years, that would not possibly stop any book/movie/record from getting made/distributed. Maybe once in a blue moon it would stop a Salinger from publishing, but hey he stopped publishing anyway.

Oops, my bad - this looks like a *political* discussion. Sry. Mods, plz move to RSP.

Legalities aside, here's all that matters to me. Do I have your express permission to do something like taking Isotropic code and building some sort of clone with it where I could play online Dominion all I wanted in a LAN setting? Assuming that the answer is "no," or just that you'd prefer that such a thing didn't happen because it would take away from Rio Grande or yourself in any way, then that's all I need to know to not even consider doing or participating in such a thing.

I'll answer this for him.  He's already said that he isn't interested in having a debate with us on how much we can do before its officially dicking him over.

I know; and I meant for that to be phrased in such a way that I was saying that I assume the answer was no, and therefore I would not be participating in such a thing.
Then don't you already have your answer?
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rinkworks

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2012, 02:37:49 pm »
+2

P&P is public domain.  To my knowledge - nothing new has entered public domain via the expiration of copyright in my lifetime.
The way intellectual property works currently is really messed up. For sure, if you only owned your thing for say 20 years, that would not possibly stop any book/movie/record from getting made/distributed. Maybe once in a blue moon it would stop a Salinger from publishing, but hey he stopped publishing anyway.

Oops, my bad - this looks like a *political* discussion. Sry. Mods, plz move to RSP.

Legalities aside, here's all that matters to me. Do I have your express permission to do something like taking Isotropic code and building some sort of clone with it where I could play online Dominion all I wanted in a LAN setting? Assuming that the answer is "no," or just that you'd prefer that such a thing didn't happen because it would take away from Rio Grande or yourself in any way, then that's all I need to know to not even consider doing or participating in such a thing.

I'll answer this for him.  He's already said that he isn't interested in having a debate with us on how much we can do before its officially dicking him over.

I know; and I meant for that to be phrased in such a way that I was saying that I assume the answer was no, and therefore I would not be participating in such a thing.
Then don't you already have your answer?

I understood the question to be rhetorical.  He was outlining the reasoning behind his conclusion -- already arrived at -- not actually asking for an answer.
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #82 on: August 23, 2012, 02:40:00 pm »
0

P&P is public domain.  To my knowledge - nothing new has entered public domain via the expiration of copyright in my lifetime.
The way intellectual property works currently is really messed up. For sure, if you only owned your thing for say 20 years, that would not possibly stop any book/movie/record from getting made/distributed. Maybe once in a blue moon it would stop a Salinger from publishing, but hey he stopped publishing anyway.

Oops, my bad - this looks like a *political* discussion. Sry. Mods, plz move to RSP.

Legalities aside, here's all that matters to me. Do I have your express permission to do something like taking Isotropic code and building some sort of clone with it where I could play online Dominion all I wanted in a LAN setting? Assuming that the answer is "no," or just that you'd prefer that such a thing didn't happen because it would take away from Rio Grande or yourself in any way, then that's all I need to know to not even consider doing or participating in such a thing.

I'll answer this for him.  He's already said that he isn't interested in having a debate with us on how much we can do before its officially dicking him over.

I know; and I meant for that to be phrased in such a way that I was saying that I assume the answer was no, and therefore I would not be participating in such a thing.
Then don't you already have your answer?

I understood the question to be rhetorical.  He was outlining the reasoning behind his conclusion -- already arrived at -- not actually asking for an answer.

Basically, yeah. Unless Donald decides to respond with his permission! ;D
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popsofctown

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #83 on: August 23, 2012, 06:17:07 pm »
0

The blu-ray has IP on it that you didn't pay for yet - the little bits showing you the stitches on James Bond's coat or whatever.  You can't use the basic DVD to create a blu-ray version.

I can use paper dominion to create zombinion online.
That's the dif to me
Your logic seems inconsistent. If you want to the crispness of Bond's coat, why not say that paper dominion doesn't hold any electronic stuff? I mean, I can use the lower resolution to make the high-res thing to, it's just a lot of time and work.
How can you use the lower res thing to make the high res thing?  Do you mean by reshooting the movie? If you want to reshoot the movie, you won't get the exact same production, of course, Pierce Brosnan will never deliver the line the same exact way.  But it's fine for you to do that, you're just reusing the blocking, script,  screenplay, etc, that you already paid for. 
Really? That's fine? So if studio X want to remake huge summer blockbuster Y and release it next summer, that's fine?
If I buy a book, can I type it up word for word, and go get it published, and try to make it as an author?
Studio X violates ethics when they sell Blu Ray version of Y to someone that did not buy the original James Bond film, and does not claim to have done so.  When they sell a Blu Ray reshoot of Y to someone who already bought the original film, and thus has already conveyed money to the scriptwriters for the reused script, the scene artists for reused furniture arrangement in scene 3, etc.

Of course if you put up a Zombinion server and let anyone in who gives lip service and says they bought the original dominion, unethical use is going to occur.  But I would put the blame on the person lying, because lying is wrong, and if you just ask people whether they bought the game that's an efficient way to put the ethical ball in their court. 

There are NES emulation sites that practice this philosophy, they put up copies of old school NES games and, in text on the page, urge you to play only if you own a hardcopy of the actual game.  I go to such sites to play games I own dusty copies of for my NES, like Zelda.  I do not think it is unethical for me to play games I already own on online emulators. 
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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #84 on: August 24, 2012, 11:36:05 am »
0

Of course if you put up a Zombinion server and let anyone in who gives lip service and says they bought the original dominion, unethical use is going to occur.  But I would put the blame on the person lying, because lying is wrong, and if you just ask people whether they bought the game that's an efficient way to put the ethical ball in their court. 

There are NES emulation sites that practice this philosophy, they put up copies of old school NES games and, in text on the page, urge you to play only if you own a hardcopy of the actual game.  I go to such sites to play games I own dusty copies of for my NES, like Zelda.  I do not think it is unethical for me to play games I already own on online emulators.

To put it in a boardgaming context, a friend of mine just introduced me to wargameroom.com, where they have an online implementation of Manoeuvre, a fun little game that I enjoy playing with my gaming group.

And the same thing as you are referencing is used there: users are instructed to only play the game if one of the participants owns a physical copy of the game.  Apparently all of the games there have similar language.  Pretty nifty.
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Tombolo

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #85 on: August 24, 2012, 12:13:11 pm »
+2

Here's my best idea for saving iso:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MVonyVSQoM
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Orange

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #86 on: August 25, 2012, 02:33:35 pm »
+1

Check again ;-)

Cool. Can I get 2012 WBC Champion?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 02:36:41 pm by Orange »
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Grujah

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2012, 02:46:20 pm »
0

I'm pretty sure you would have to do more than just change the names of the cards to avoid legal problems.

Yes, you'd need a new name and new art.
But you can't copyright something like "+2 cards +1 action", and copyright law specifically excludes game rules.
This is half the reason RGG has been so "cool" about unauthorized apps.

I always found it funny how WotC patented "tapping"/"tap" so every other game that uses  that mechanic (and many do) just rename it to things like "kneel", "exhaust" etc.

 ;D
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2012, 03:38:56 pm »
0

I'm pretty sure you would have to do more than just change the names of the cards to avoid legal problems.

Yes, you'd need a new name and new art.
But you can't copyright something like "+2 cards +1 action", and copyright law specifically excludes game rules.
This is half the reason RGG has been so "cool" about unauthorized apps.

I always found it funny how WotC patented "tapping"/"tap" so every other game that uses  that mechanic (and many do) just rename it to things like "kneel", "exhaust" etc.

 ;D

Thanks to them we have the scenario of a Game of Thrones "Brothel" card that allows you to "Kneel" another player's character.  Priceless.
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Donald X.

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2012, 05:13:02 pm »
0

I always found it funny how WotC patented "tapping"/"tap" so every other game that uses  that mechanic (and many do) just rename it to things like "kneel", "exhaust" etc.
They couldn't and didn't. What they did was include tapping in their patent for collectible card games. This made their patent cover fewer things, not more things. It's the kind of thing you do to get a patent at all - you have to demonstrate a certain uniqueness (and in fact the first collectible card game was from the early 20th century - some game with baseball cards).

People don't say "tap" because they don't want to get sued, whether or not the suit would go anywhere.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #90 on: August 25, 2012, 11:27:47 pm »
0

I always found it funny how WotC patented "tapping"/"tap" so every other game that uses  that mechanic (and many do) just rename it to things like "kneel", "exhaust" etc.
They couldn't and didn't. What they did was include tapping in their patent for collectible card games. This made their patent cover fewer things, not more things. It's the kind of thing you do to get a patent at all - you have to demonstrate a certain uniqueness (and in fact the first collectible card game was from the early 20th century - some game with baseball cards).

People don't say "tap" because they don't want to get sued, whether or not the suit would go anywhere.

If I remember correctly, didn't WotC win a big case against several game companies that used the mechanics that MtG used and as a result a lot of games vanished?
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Donald X.

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Re: A Completely Unreasonable Proposal To Save Isotropic
« Reply #91 on: August 26, 2012, 01:04:04 am »
0

If I remember correctly, didn't WotC win a big case against several game companies that used the mechanics that MtG used and as a result a lot of games vanished?
All I see on wikipedia is "In 2003, the patent was an element of a larger legal dispute between Wizards of the Coast and Nintendo, regarding trade secrets related to Nintendo's Pokémon Trading Card Game. The legal action was settled out of court, and its terms were not disclosed."
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