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[Rush_Clasic]

Viaduct (5)
Action
+2 Buys
All cards (including cards in players’ hands) cost $1 less this turn per card you've bought this turn, but not less than $0.

• An intricate system of bridges can take you far!
• I really want to be told that this is overpowered, but I'm not sure that it is. If so, would +1 Buy still be too good?

[eHalcyon]

I am not sure if this is OP.  My initial thought is that it is actually UP, but I honestly don't know.

Along with price reduction, Bridge gives +$1 and +1 Buy.  Highway gives no special bonus, but it is cantrip.  Princess gives +1 Buy and the price reduction is worth $2 instead of just $1.  All of these cards cause price reduction as soon as they are played, which allows for cute tricks with cost-caring cards (Remodel, Swindler, Saboteur, Ironworks, etc.) if you play enough of them.

Viaduct doesn't quite work this way (unless you use Black Market) because you play cards before you buy any.  So that's one strategic consideration out the window.

How much is Viaduct worth on its own?  It does nothing with the first buy.  Second buy, costs have been reduced by $1.  Third buy, costs have been reduced by $2.  If you use all three buys, Viaduct is worth a Gold.  Very good, except how often are you going to use three buys?

If you manage to play two Viaducts (including duplicated plays, e.g. with Throne Room), the cost reduction is even better.  Hm... now I'm starting to think it might really be OP.

How easy is it get Provinces with Viaduct?

Let's see what happens with a simple two-card combo: KC-Viaduct.  With just those two cards, you get +6 Buys (7 total) and each Card purchased will reduce cost by a whopping $3.

The thing to note here is that you can spend a couple of early buys on Copper.  So let's pretend you only have $2 in hand after playing KC-Viaduct.  Very sad!  But you buy a Copper... now everything costs $3 less.  You could buy a Duchy now, but let's just buy something that's free -- Silver, maybe.  Now everything costs $6 less -- oh, you can afford Province now!  And actually, after that, all the other Provinces are free as well.  Holy smokes.  With just two cards (KC-Viaduct) and $2 in hand (easily achieved with a single Silver or any number of support cards) you've snagged yourself 5 Provinces.  WOW.

With just a little support (a little more starting cash, Village or some other way to play another Viaduct or two) you could easily take down all 8 Provinces.

So OK, after some thought, I conclude that it is OP.  But at first glance it did seem weak.

It might be more reasonable with just a single +Buy, or maybe if it had a "while this is in play" clause (like Highway) so that it can't just destroy everything with a KC.

I really like this concept, by the way.  Definitely do more testing with this.

[yudantaiteki]

I don't think this card works, absent Black Market.  Once you play a card, it has its effect, but you don't keep checking back with the card throughout the turn and updating the effect.  So you play it during your action phase, and it can't be affected by any buys you do during your buy phase.

[eHalcyon]

I don't think this card works, absent Black Market.  Once you play a card, it has its effect, but you don't keep checking back with the card throughout the turn and updating the effect.  So you play it during your action phase, and it can't be affected by any buys you do during your buy phase.

Oh, that's a good point.  Easy enough to fix the wording though, to get (what I assume is) the original intention.



While this is in play, when you buy a card, the cost of all cards (including cards in players' hands) is reduced by $1 (to a minimum of $0).


I think you have to deviate from the Bridge/Highway wording a little (as above) in order to cause cost reduction per buy.  Could still remove the "while this is in play" clause as well (would need to tweak wording a bit more), but then I would suggest only having +1 Buy.

I am not sure which version I'd prefer.  I like it being KC-able and I like the card giving tons of +Buy... it's just so very broken like that.

[Rush_Clasic]

KC is one of those things that ruins the potential of many a card. But I'm not sure that's such a bad thing, and that simple example does show the risk. Highway wording is just much better, and I really like the way you wrote it up.

Viaduct #2 (5)
Action
+2 Buys
While this is in play, when you buy a card, the cost of all cards (including cards in players' hands) is reduced by $1 (to a minimum of $0).

[Mecherath]

Even without KC or TR, this card is pretty nuts at emptying piles.  In your typical Gardens rush, get even two of these going, and with $6 in hand, you just snagged 5 Gardens.  Two bridges can get 3 Gardens with $4 in hand, of course.

Viaducts need some seed money, but with the extra buys they provide, it can be very easy to empty piles if you get enough.  Even with the in play clause, KC, Viaduct, and $10 can land you 7 Gardens.  And when it's time to empty the second pile, it only takes $6 to get 7 of a 3-cost card or $3 to snag 7 Estates.

I'm worried that without some Village support though, you're never going to be able to get expensive cards, or do much of anything with this.  Using just one, it's a bit like saying +2 Buys, +$1 if you buy 2 cards this turn, +$3 if you buy three.  Woodcutter gives you $2 all the time and only costs $3.

Since the cost reduction only kicks in when you buy things, without Black Market, it's never going to have any effect with Remodel type cards.  I think it could be dropped to $4 given its current wording and effect.  It's totally useless if you only use one buy, and worse than Woodcutter if you use two.  It combos great, but so do a lot of cheap cards.

[razorborne]

Even without KC or TR, this card is pretty nuts at emptying piles.  In your typical Gardens rush, get even two of these going, and with $6 in hand, you just snagged 5 Gardens.  Two bridges can get 3 Gardens with $4 in hand, of course.

in your typical gardens rush, how often do you get two of a five-cost, with a village, and $6?

[eHalcyon]

Viaducts need some seed money, but with the extra buys they provide, it can be very easy to empty piles if you get enough.  Even with the in play clause, KC, Viaduct, and $10 can land you 7 Gardens.  And when it's time to empty the second pile, it only takes $6 to get 7 of a 3-cost card or $3 to snag 7 Estates.

KC-Viaduct and $10?  $10 is a lot man.  How are you going to get $10 in hand when two slots are already taken up with KC-Viaduct?  You'll need other support to get to that level, and then it's crazy enough even without Viaduct.  In that regard, it seems fine.

[Mecherath]

Yeah that was a case of having the point I wanted to make, and then actually doing the math and seeing oh.. that is a lot, but going for it anyway.  On the other hand... if you have a $3 or $2 pile you already want to empty, you can do it with less.  You just won't actually get all 7 Gardens.

Buy a $3 for $3
Buy a $3 for $2
Buy a $3 for $1
Buy a $3 for $0
Buy 3 Gardens for $0

Or with a a $2 around
Buy a $2 for $2
Buy a $2 for $1
Buy a Gardens for $2
Buy a Gardens for $1
Buy 3 more Gardens for $0

Toss in Coppers for Taste and you can manage with less.  Your original point of: hey what are you doing buying $5 support cards and Throne Rooms in a Gardens rush stands though.  My point though is that it's most useful for buying lots of cheap cards, when you want to end on Piles.

I do think you could drop it to $4 though.  It beats bridge when you have a lot, but is pretty much worse than bridge alone.  Bridge nets you $2 on a single buy, and $3 on two.  Viaduct nets you $0 on a single buy, $1 on two, and $3 on three.