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Author Topic: Looking to the future: The Guilds  (Read 19425 times)

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ConMan

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2012, 02:02:09 am »
0

Other alt-VPs:

"This card is worth 1 VP if the game ended on your turn, or 2 VP otherwise"?

Or, to steal a mechanic from Tanto Cuore, "If you have at least two copies of this card in your deck, then if there are an odd number this is worth 2 VP, and if there are an even number it is worth -2 VP."

Action-Victory - "Trash this card. (Possible benefit). This card is worth 1 VP for every copy of it in the Trash."

Another Tanto Cuore one, three distinct cards (although for Dominion you'd probably have to reduce that to two). Each has a reasonable benefit on their own, but has a bonus if you get sets of them.
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Archetype

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2012, 02:07:47 am »
0

For the first one: That one could be interesting. Could warp endgame situations which would be fun

The 2nd: That would be a fun fan card, as I doubt Donald would print something that swingy, and it's fairly easy to keep track of how much of each card you have in your deck.

The 3rd: I would be surprised if Donald made a card like that. It's one that he hasn't done, but if he was going to do it, he would have already done it in DA.

4th: I don't think I understand how this one works. Explain?
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ConMan

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2012, 02:51:52 am »
0

For the first one: That one could be interesting. Could warp endgame situations which would be fun
That's what I was thinking :)

Quote
The 2nd: That would be a fun fan card, as I doubt Donald would print something that swingy, and it's fairly easy to keep track of how much of each card you have in your deck.
I agree on all counts. And it introduces a little extra strategy in terms of how many you buy (a side-note - the TC card also had on-play effects, as most of them do, and IIRC it was a Peddler-variant).

Quote
The 3rd: I would be surprised if Donald made a card like that. It's one that he hasn't done, but if he was going to do it, he would have already done it in DA.
Yeah, as I wrote it I realised that it would have been DA.

Quote
4th: I don't think I understand how this one works. Explain?
The way it works in TC is like this - there are three sisters, Azure, Viola and Rouge Crescent. Each has the same cost, and is worth 1VP on their own - and one has a +1 Card, another a +1 Action, the third +$1. However, if you can "chamber" them (a mechanism on some cards that's like a self-Island), then any set of two different sisters you have is worth a bonus 3VP (for a total of 5VP), while any set of three is worth a bonus 7VP (for a total of 10VP). So if your chambers contain one Azure, two Viola and three Rouge, then you have one set of three (Azure+Viola+Rouge = 10VP), one pair (Viola+Rouge = 5VP) and one Rouge left over (1VP) for a total of 16.

However, if you choose a random set of cards, you're not guaranteed to have all three in any given game, which means that if they are all there they tend to dominate any strategy, whereas if only one or two is they're pretty worthless. Hence why I'd think that a Dominion version would probably only have two, and the on-play bonus would probably be a bit stronger.
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ftl

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2012, 03:02:46 am »
+1

I would be sort of worried about #1 creating a situation where whoever ends the game loses.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2012, 03:43:29 am »
0

Action-Victory - "Trash this card. (Possible benefit). This card is worth 1 VP for every copy of it in the Trash."

I think this suffers from the same problem as Trade Route and Forager, except it is worse because it has to do with VP.  Trashing the card is typically bad for you because the benefit it confers is universal.  Why should I trash my [card] and boost yours, while losing one of my own?  The "possible benefit" would have to be good enough to justify it.
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PSGarak

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2012, 11:29:11 am »
+9

Tulip Farm: This card is worth 1VP for every copy of Tulip Farm remaining in the supply at the end of the game.

You get to re-enact your very own Dutch speculative tulip bubble! Complete with them being completely worthless at the end.
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ConMan

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2012, 07:53:45 pm »
0

I would be sort of worried about #1 creating a situation where whoever ends the game loses.
I agree that it's probably not a great idea in itself - clearly, if you're fairly confident that you haven't won, but that you still have a chance to win, you're not going to end the game, and so instead you're going to try to prolong it (by buying something else or nothing at all), resulting either in someone pulling a win from somewhere else, or the game going on forever because no-one is willing to end it. But it's an area which hasn't been explored, which is why I'm putting it out there to try to work out what *could* work. We know that DXV has deliberately tried to maintain as much symmetry in the game as possible, so the main initial asymmetries are which player starts and how the opening hands are split, and the main ending asymmetry is in which player ends the game. So while the opening hand split has been affected by some mechanics (cards like Nomad Camp in Hinterlands and Shelters in Dark Ages), there hasn't been much looking at player order. Is there a non-broken way to incorporate that into a mechanic, particularly in terms of alt-VP?
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Tombolo

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2012, 05:54:47 pm »
+1

Dutch speculative tulip bubble!

Things I didn't expect to learn about on the dominion forums!  Or to exist, for that matter.
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Cuzz

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2012, 06:54:12 pm »
0

Tulip Farm: This card is worth 1VP for every copy of Tulip Farm remaining in the supply at the end of the game.

You get to re-enact your very own Dutch speculative tulip bubble! Complete with them being completely worthless at the end.

I like this. Would be fun to see your opponent going for them, then buy out the pile on a megaturn and trash them all with watchtower.
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Morgrim7

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2012, 10:32:23 pm »
+3

-sigh-
this is, without a doubt, the most over-analytical forum ive ever been on.
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ConMan

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2012, 10:52:46 pm »
0

-sigh-
this is, without a doubt, the most over-analytical forum ive ever been on.
Really? I frequent the xkcd forums, including the Math and Science subforums, and they'd be able to give you a comprehensive list of all the factors you need to consider when measuring the airspeed of an unladen swallow.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2012, 01:51:14 am »
0

Tulip Farm: This card is worth 1VP for every copy of Tulip Farm remaining in the supply at the end of the game.

You get to re-enact your very own Dutch speculative tulip bubble! Complete with them being completely worthless at the end.

That is an interesting victory card for sure.
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Davio

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2012, 04:33:59 am »
0

Dutch speculative tulip bubble!

Things I didn't expect to learn about on the dominion forums!  Or to exist, for that matter.
Oh yeah, it's a classic example proving that anything can be worth everything.

You could sell a tulip for a house in those days.

I sometimes watch those pawn and auction shows, it's crazy what people will pay for certain stuff...
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enquerencia

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2012, 05:56:08 am »
0

I'm a bit late to this thread, but wanted to chime in because I too have been sorta tortured by my attempts to imagine what Guilds is all about with nothing to go by but its title. 

I imagined at first that there would be guilds based around existing card types.  Because Dominion only has a few groups of card types that are definitively labelled on the cards (action, victory, treasure, reaction, duration, looter... I think that's it, but I don't want to look it up) I imagined that the guilds would be based around this, like Labor guild, Banker guild, Prospector's guild, etc., and I know that if this is the case Donald has better names for these guilds than I do.  But if that IS the case, then I kind of think that there will be guilds cards of a single copy each (if my list of card types is complete then it only needs one more card type to reach seven, which could theoretically be a new card type introduced in guilds), and either all are out or none.  And I kinda think they will have a permanent effect.  I know most of this has been postulated in previous posts.  I don't want to take credit for it, but to those of you who have made these predictions, I agree with you. 

So, this thing comes out in spring, right?  That's a long time to speculate.  By the time it comes out I imagine this community will have designed an entire fan expansion based on our collective theories about the real one.

P.S. I love the Tulip Farm card idea.  I would love to see how this plays in real life.  You obviously don't want to buy the last one unless you don't have any or are just trying to destroy the other player's strategy, but you also don't want to let your opponent have only one or two. 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 06:10:48 am by enquerencia »
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Davio

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2012, 07:05:03 am »
0

This is building on enquerencia's idea to add some more speculation. :)

Well, other than having copies of the same card in a pile, we've now seen cards with different copies, like Ruins and Knights.

If this were to carry over to Guilds, it might mean that a single stack (of 10) is effectively a Guild that gives bonuses to other cards from that stack. So you may want to dip into the pile, but you have to plough through first.

The first card you buy will be like a lvl 1 City. If you buy another you get 2 lvl 2 Cities, you catch my drift.

Example:

Worker's Guild, including:

Something Something Village
Action - Worker's Guild

+1 Card
+1 Action for every Worker's Guild card you have in play, including this.

So that's a unique card, another unique:

Union house
Action - Worker's Guild

+1 Action
+1 Card for every Worker's Guild card you have in play, including this.


Okay, those examples are about the easiest I could think of, so don't criticize any blatant strategic errors please.
I think it's funny because the play order matters. If you play the Village first, you get an extra card from the Union House.
Do it the other way around and you get an extra action.
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enquerencia

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2012, 07:12:30 am »
0

Davio, I was actually thinking that the guilds would work with cards that weren't from Guilds, so like, Action cards would be part of a guild and treasure cards would be part of a guild, etc., and that Guilds the expansion would include a new type of card and it would be a guild too.  And by meeting some requirement to become a member of a guild you would then gain some kind of bonus for playing cards of that guild type, or in the case of victory cards, get a vp bonus for being a member of that guild. 

The thing is, most Kingdoms are almost exclusively action cards, so the action guild would be pre......etty desirable.
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Davio

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2012, 07:13:37 am »
0

I see. Okay, well, another possibility added. :)
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2012, 10:38:45 am »
0

(action, victory, treasure, reaction, duration, looter... I think that's it, but I don't want to look it up)

Also Curse, Attack, Prize, Knight, and Shelter.
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werothegreat

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2012, 05:20:31 pm »
+7

I spit-took when I saw the new "Guilds previews" forum.  Then I was heavily depressed when I saw there weren't actually any previews.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2012, 06:35:53 pm »
0

I would really love to see an alternative curse card with the curse type. Ruins don't count.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2012, 07:03:26 pm »
+2

I would really love to see an alternative curse card with the curse type. Ruins don't count.

Man, why would you love to see that? Is it because you enjoy rules-related confusion? :P
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #71 on: November 28, 2012, 04:59:14 am »
+1

I would really love to see an alternative curse card with the curse type. Ruins don't count.

Man, why would you love to see that? Is it because you enjoy rules-related confusion? :P

Yup. And, I also want a curse variant that says curse on it.
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Davio

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #72 on: November 28, 2012, 05:39:07 am »
+1

I would really love to see an alternative curse card with the curse type. Ruins don't count.

Man, why would you love to see that? Is it because you enjoy rules-related confusion? :P

Yup. And, I also want a curse variant that says curse on it.
This will never happen.

Imagine a Sea Hag slog with not 10, but 20 Curses! It will last 50 turns!
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theory

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #73 on: November 28, 2012, 09:32:49 am »
+2

I spit-took when I saw the new "Guilds previews" forum.  Then I was heavily depressed when I saw there weren't actually any previews.


Mostly I just like to see everyone's speculations :D  I imagine DXV must find it amusing too.
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enquerencia

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Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds
« Reply #74 on: November 28, 2012, 09:45:00 am »
0

I'm sure DXV is the most amused of all of us.  If I were him I'd have a very hard time reading all this and not saying things like "You are so CLOSE.... but no, it's not like that at all."

I would be deeply disappointed if Guilds didn't have some kind of new mechanic in it though.  I think it's safe to say, based on the fact that Base was released first, it probably doesn't have any new tokens or mats or any kind of platinum/colony type additions.  I do really like the idea that it might have some kind of permanent effect options, and I think that it would be really cool if there were guilds you could become a member of by meeting some kind of requirement (like trashing a province, as was mentioned a few posts back), and that being a member of a guild would give you some kind of bonus that wasn't dependent on there being a lot of cards from Guilds in the kingdom.

Time will make fools of us all, I suspect. 

Well, time and Donald.
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