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Author Topic: Band of Misfits rules questions  (Read 126859 times)

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Donald X.

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #75 on: August 15, 2012, 03:47:36 pm »
+7

Another fun fact about BoM:

If you pick up a BoM with Golem you should be able to play it as a new Golem! (You have revealed an action card that is not Golem, but then when you play it you can make it become Golem.)
Only if some new card lowers costs by P.
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Donald X.

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #76 on: August 15, 2012, 03:48:23 pm »
0

But Throne Room doesn't see Feast. When you play the Throne Room, the BoM is still in your hand, so it's not a Feast yet. All Throne Room sees at this point is a Band of Misfits.
I am not so clear on this. I played BoM as Feast. So I Throned a Feast. That seems like a reasonable way to look at it.
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Donald X.

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #77 on: August 15, 2012, 03:49:08 pm »
+4

Just remember, Donald X. is God, so if he says the card works that way, then well...
Man, I have been wrong about stuff. Also now you will get people saying how unhumble I am because I think I get to decide how cards work.
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Donald X.

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #78 on: August 15, 2012, 03:50:31 pm »
+1

Split and moved, since this is what this thread is really about now.
You could close the other thread, that way people won't accidentally post there, he said as if this were the reason.
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xitoliv

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #79 on: August 15, 2012, 03:50:38 pm »
0

What was the isotropic/prototype art for Band of Misfits?
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blueblimp

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #80 on: August 15, 2012, 03:51:04 pm »
0

Also this particular question is not that esoteric, since it happens with any multiplier (TR, KC, Procession) of a BoM that imitates a self-trashing card (Embargo, Treasure Map, Mining Village, Feast).
It does not need to be non-esoteric to be worth answering, but I do not imagine this will come up too often in games. You need BoM and one of a small number of cards and one of a small number of cards, and then, you are trashing your BoM, didn't you want that.
True, although TR'ing/KC'ing a BoM for cash on your final turn (to buy a Province) is realistic enough. Still not going to happen much, but still a reasonable play in that situation.
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pauley_walnuts

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2012, 03:51:07 pm »
0

Another potential source of bugs: I play a Village, then a BoM-as-a-Village, then a Horn of Plenty. HoP should only see two different names of cards (Village/BoM-as-a-Village and HoP).
I bet it will work, but sadly I cannot test this one yet.

But you confirm that this is what's supposed to happen? (I.e., Band of Misfits isn't considered to also be in play under its own name, or whatever.)
Yes, HoP will just see BoM as what it copied.

Wait, this is a bit confusing. The wording on HoP is "per differently named card you have in play." Wouldn't playing Village, BoM (as a Village), and HoP give you the ability to gain a 3 cost card. What I'm getting at is that BoM is named BoM, and not the card whose effect is getting assumed.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2012, 03:51:46 pm »
+1

I think the best way to look at Band of Misfits is like Clone from Magic: The Gathering.

Clone is a copy of a creature while in play. It is no longer Clone. When it is anywhere but play, it's Clone. So, when you play, BoM via TR or KC, you play it as the card you are cloning. It is no longer BoM. It is that card. Then, when the action has resolved and everything and it is no longer in play, it goes back to being BoM.
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werothegreat

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2012, 03:51:51 pm »
+1

What was the isotropic/prototype art for Band of Misfits?

That's what I want to know.  Also, I'm betting the FAQ for Band of Misfits will be longer than Possession, Watchtower and Trader combined.
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blueblimp

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #84 on: August 15, 2012, 03:52:13 pm »
0

But Throne Room doesn't see Feast. When you play the Throne Room, the BoM is still in your hand, so it's not a Feast yet. All Throne Room sees at this point is a Band of Misfits.
I am not so clear on this. I played BoM as Feast. So I Throned a Feast. That seems like a reasonable way to look at it.
I see it as "I Throned a particular card, which was named Feast". Seems weird for Throne Room to remember the name of the card.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #85 on: August 15, 2012, 03:52:36 pm »
+1

Another potential source of bugs: I play a Village, then a BoM-as-a-Village, then a Horn of Plenty. HoP should only see two different names of cards (Village/BoM-as-a-Village and HoP).
I bet it will work, but sadly I cannot test this one yet.

But you confirm that this is what's supposed to happen? (I.e., Band of Misfits isn't considered to also be in play under its own name, or whatever.)
Yes, HoP will just see BoM as what it copied.

Wait, this is a bit confusing. The wording on HoP is "per differently named card you have in play." Wouldn't playing Village, BoM (as a Village), and HoP give you the ability to gain a 3 cost card. What I'm getting at is that BoM is named BoM, and not the card whose effect is getting assumed.

BoM is not called BoM while in play. It's name would be Village.
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pst

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #86 on: August 15, 2012, 03:52:52 pm »
0

Only if some new card lowers costs by P.

Oops, right, I forgot about the cost requirement.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #87 on: August 15, 2012, 03:53:15 pm »
0

Just remember, Donald X. is God, so if he says the card works that way, then well...
Man, I have been wrong about stuff. Also now you will get people saying how unhumble I am because I think I get to decide how cards work.

I was joking.
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Donald X.

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #88 on: August 15, 2012, 03:53:54 pm »
0

What was the isotropic/prototype art for Band of Misfits?
It was some random drawing of three adventurers.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #89 on: August 15, 2012, 03:54:27 pm »
0

Another potential source of bugs: I play a Village, then a BoM-as-a-Village, then a Horn of Plenty. HoP should only see two different names of cards (Village/BoM-as-a-Village and HoP).
I bet it will work, but sadly I cannot test this one yet.

But you confirm that this is what's supposed to happen? (I.e., Band of Misfits isn't considered to also be in play under its own name, or whatever.)
Yes, HoP will just see BoM as what it copied.

Wait, this is a bit confusing. The wording on HoP is "per differently named card you have in play." Wouldn't playing Village, BoM (as a Village), and HoP give you the ability to gain a 3 cost card. What I'm getting at is that BoM is named BoM, and not the card whose effect is getting assumed.

When you play BoM as a Village, it becomes Village.  For purposes of understanding, we might refer to it as BoM-as-Village, but for purposes of the game it is a Village.  So when HoP looks at what is in play, it does not see BoM -- it sees Village.  That is, BoM is not in play, Village is in play (even though that Village is really a BoM).
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Donald X.

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #90 on: August 15, 2012, 03:54:31 pm »
+7

Just remember, Donald X. is God, so if he says the card works that way, then well...
Man, I have been wrong about stuff. Also now you will get people saying how unhumble I am because I think I get to decide how cards work.

I was joking.
Also people will say how I can't take a joke.
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Davio

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #91 on: August 15, 2012, 03:55:06 pm »
0

BoM is going to be exceptionally nice with cards that outlive their usefulness at some point: Sea Hag being a key example.

If you happen to open 5/2 vs 4/3 it's woohoo! And gg.

If you play it as Mining Village or Embargo I guess it gets trashed just the same.
When you play it as Treasure Map, you'll still need another TM (not a BoM) to get the Golds.

If you play it as an Island, I guess you set it aside.

But I don't understand HoP: BoM has its own name and you play BoM, not the actual card. You just use whatever card text is on the card you are copying, right?
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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #92 on: August 15, 2012, 03:55:22 pm »
+2

But Throne Room doesn't see Feast. When you play the Throne Room, the BoM is still in your hand, so it's not a Feast yet. All Throne Room sees at this point is a Band of Misfits.
I am not so clear on this. I played BoM as Feast. So I Throned a Feast. That seems like a reasonable way to look at it.
But the evaluation of Throne Room is prior to the determination of BoM.

Throne Room: play an action from your hand twice
>> Which action?
BoM
>> Okay!  So I'm playing BoM twice.  Go ahead with BoM 1.
BoM: I'm a Feast
... resolution of BoM as Feast (gaining 1 thing).
>> Okay! BoM 1 is done.  Go ahead with BoM 2.
BoM: I'm a Pearl Diver
... resolution of BoM as Pearl Diver.


I probably didn't need all of that.  Feel free to forget everything except the argument in the first line.
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Donald X.

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #93 on: August 15, 2012, 03:55:38 pm »
+1

Wait, this is a bit confusing. The wording on HoP is "per differently named card you have in play." Wouldn't playing Village, BoM (as a Village), and HoP give you the ability to gain a 3 cost card. What I'm getting at is that BoM is named BoM, and not the card whose effect is getting assumed.
BoM is just a Village until it leaves play. Village is named Village.
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Donald X.

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #94 on: August 15, 2012, 03:56:21 pm »
+1

That's what I want to know.  Also, I'm betting the FAQ for Band of Misfits will be longer than Possession, Watchtower and Trader combined.
It is probably top ten but cannot touch those three.
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werothegreat

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #95 on: August 15, 2012, 03:58:20 pm »
+1

That's what I want to know.  Also, I'm betting the FAQ for Band of Misfits will be longer than Possession, Watchtower and Trader combined.
It is probably top ten but cannot touch those three.

Well, that's no fun.
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pauley_walnuts

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #96 on: August 15, 2012, 03:58:56 pm »
0

I guess the "This is that card" clause on BoM clears up the HoP question.
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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #97 on: August 15, 2012, 03:59:32 pm »
+1

But Throne Room doesn't see Feast. When you play the Throne Room, the BoM is still in your hand, so it's not a Feast yet. All Throne Room sees at this point is a Band of Misfits.
I am not so clear on this. I played BoM as Feast. So I Throned a Feast. That seems like a reasonable way to look at it.
But the evaluation of Throne Room is prior to the determination of BoM.

Throne Room: play an action from your hand twice
>> Which action?
BoM
>> Okay!  So I'm playing BoM twice.  Go ahead with BoM 1.
BoM: I'm a Feast
... resolution of BoM as Feast (gaining 1 thing).
>> Okay! BoM 1 is done.  Go ahead with BoM 2.
BoM: I'm a Pearl Diver
... resolution of BoM as Pearl Diver.


I probably didn't need all of that.  Feel free to forget everything except the argument in the first line.

Actually I disagree with my argument here.  Pardon me all.

The text of BoM is key.  Essentially: play as X; until the card leaves play it is X.

Throne Room: play a card.
Card?
BoM.
BoM?
I'm a Village from the time I enter play until the time I leave play.
Okay... entering play... village 1
(resolve)
Still in play, village 2
(resolve)
End of Throne Room.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #98 on: August 15, 2012, 04:00:05 pm »
0

BoM is going to be exceptionally nice with cards that outlive their usefulness at some point: Sea Hag being a key example.

If you happen to open 5/2 vs 4/3 it's woohoo! And gg.

If you play it as Mining Village or Embargo I guess it gets trashed just the same.
When you play it as Treasure Map, you'll still need another TM (not a BoM) to get the Golds.

If you play it as an Island, I guess you set it aside.

But I don't understand HoP: BoM has its own name and you play BoM, not the actual card. You just use whatever card text is on the card you are copying, right?

The card text isn't copied. The card is copied including name and cost.
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Donald X.

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Re: Band of Misfits rules questions
« Reply #99 on: August 15, 2012, 04:00:54 pm »
+1

I see it as "I Throned a particular card, which was named Feast". Seems weird for Throne Room to remember the name of the card.
If you Throned a Feast, then we should Feast twice, right? The Feast could have been something else if you'd picked something else for BoM, but you didn't.

You Throned a BoM, but BoM says "play this as if etc." So really you Throned a Feast. If that Feast vanishes - for example moving to the trash, or maybe turning into a different card wtf - we should still Feast a second time.

I dunno, that's how I see it now, we will see if anyone produces a compelling counterargument. Also again for the moment that is how funsockets works.
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