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[Donald X.]

http://chainsawsuit.com/2011/10/21/cautions-from-a-former-employer/

I was always under the impression that that phrase was meant to imply that you should get out as quickly as possibly, butt-hitting suggesting that you're taking your sweet ass time to leave.

No dude, it is all about butt safety.

[Donald X.]

Procession.
Band of Misfits - turn it into Fortress.

Does it go back into my hand?

This one is in the FAQ, hooray. BoM goes back to your hand and you gain an action card costing $6. At the point at which you trashed it, it had an ability that returned it to your hand if it was trashed; at the point at which we need to know its cost, it's back to $5.

[blueblimp]

Well, I guess I can discuss it now that Don has confirmed them?

Anyway, in spoiler tags:
Hand:
Rats, Rats, Fortress, Watchtower, Anything
1) Play Rats, draw anything, gain Rats, topdeck them. Eat Fortress, put Fortress back into your hand.
2) Play Rats, draw topdecked Rats, gain Rats, topdeck them. Eat Fortress, put Fortress back into your hand.
Repeat 2) untill you you empty the pile.

That spoiler-tagged card is going to make TfB cards soooo much more interesting.

Agreed. If you have a Remake and even one Fortress in hand, you can gain 2 cards costing $5 and still keep your Fortress.

What I really want to know, is if you Procession a Band of Misfits, and on its second play choose to emulate Fortress, does the Band of Misfits get returned to your hand?  Because "until it leaves play" - trashing, to me, means leaving play.  But the Fortress effect is a "when you trash", meaning it would be simultaneous with the trashing, so I think this would be a blue dog instance, in which case, you should be able to put Band of Misfits in your hand.  The next problem would be can you gain a card worth $5 or $6 from Procession?  Do you go by Band of Misfits cost, or the cost of the card it's emulating?

My intuition from the "blue dog" discussion is that "it" always refers to a specific physical card, not a name of a card. So if "it" in this situation refers to the Band-of-Misfits-formerly-known-as-Fortress, then "it" has cost $5, meaning you gain a card of cost $6.

[Donald X.]

Another potential source of bugs: I play a Village, then a BoM-as-a-Village, then a Horn of Plenty. HoP should only see two different names of cards (Village/BoM-as-a-Village and HoP).

I bet it will work, but sadly I cannot test this one yet.

[AJD]

Throne Roome - Band of Misfits.
You choose Feast.

So you trash the Feast-y Band of Misfits and gain a card.
Then you play the card again, but since it has left play it isn't a Feast anymore, so you get to choose a new action card you want the second play of the (trashed) BoM behave as?

No, you still Feast twice. I uh. My explanation is that Throne Room played Feast twice, and if that Feast is now a Band of Misfits, that's just its own personal thing. This one is not in the FAQ. I checked isotropic and funsockets and they both have you Feast twice, for what that's worth.

That's... not what I would have expected.

Throne Room isn't playing Feast twice in any case: consider the case of BoM-as-Smithy. Throne Room plays Band of Misfits once; BoM plays Smithy; Throne Room tries to play BoM a second time, but when it looks for BoM it finds a Smithy and it's like, whatever, I guess I'll just play that then. So the Throne Room itself plays BoM once and Smithy once.

But this perhaps is wading a bit too far into the weeds to be useful.

[AJD]

Another potential source of bugs: I play a Village, then a BoM-as-a-Village, then a Horn of Plenty. HoP should only see two different names of cards (Village/BoM-as-a-Village and HoP).

I bet it will work, but sadly I cannot test this one yet.

But you confirm that this is what's supposed to happen? (I.e., Band of Misfits isn't considered to also be in play under its own name, or whatever.)

[blueblimp]

Throne Roome - Band of Misfits.
You choose Feast.

So you trash the Feast-y Band of Misfits and gain a card.
Then you play the card again, but since it has left play it isn't a Feast anymore, so you get to choose a new action card you want the second play of the (trashed) BoM behave as?

No, you still Feast twice. I uh. My explanation is that Throne Room played Feast twice, and if that Feast is now a Band of Misfits, that's just its own personal thing. This one is not in the FAQ. I checked isotropic and funsockets and they both have you Feast twice, for what that's worth.

That's... not what I would have expected.

Throne Room isn't playing Feast twice in any case: consider the case of BoM-as-Smithy. Throne Room plays Band of Misfits once; BoM plays Smithy; Throne Room tries to play BoM a second time, but when it looks for BoM it finds a Smithy and it's like, whatever, I guess I'll just play that then. So the Throne Room itself plays BoM once and Smithy once.

But this perhaps is wading a bit too far into the weeds to be useful.

Yeah, I can't justify to myself that the second play would be a Feast, since Throne Room says "it", where "it" refers to the BoM-formerly-known-as-Feast, and on the second play, the BoM is clearly a BoM and not a Feast, since it has already left play.

[clb]

Throne Roome - Band of Misfits.
You choose Feast.

So you trash the Feast-y Band of Misfits and gain a card.
Then you play the card again, but since it has left play it isn't a Feast anymore, so you get to choose a new action card you want the second play of the (trashed) BoM behave as?

No, you still Feast twice. I uh. My explanation is that Throne Room played Feast twice, and if that Feast is now a Band of Misfits, that's just its own personal thing. This one is not in the FAQ. I checked isotropic and funsockets and they both have you Feast twice, for what that's worth.

That's... not what I would have expected.

Throne Room isn't playing Feast twice in any case: consider the case of BoM-as-Smithy. Throne Room plays Band of Misfits once; BoM plays Smithy; Throne Room tries to play BoM a second time, but when it looks for BoM it finds a Smithy and it's like, whatever, I guess I'll just play that then. So the Throne Room itself plays BoM once and Smithy once.

But this perhaps is wading a bit too far into the weeds to be useful.

I saw this as Throne room looks around for a card to play, sees Feast, and decides to play it twice. It doesn't matter that Feast wanders off to play with his friends in the trash - Throne Room saw Feast, so it Feasts twice. Most cards don't have the option of wandering away when Throned, but Feast is special. BoM, then, is Feast for Throne Room. Even though it not only wanders off, but also reverts to BoM, Throne Room still saw Feast and wants its smorgesborg.

[theory]

Split and moved, since this is what this thread is really about now.

[blueblimp]

Also this particular question is not that esoteric, since it happens with any multiplier (TR, KC, Procession) of a BoM that imitates a self-trashing card (Embargo, Treasure Map, Mining Village, Feast).

[AJD]

Ooh ooh how about this one!

Play Band of Misfits, declaring it a Village. Then play Conspirator. Is the Conspirator non-terminal because you've already played two actions (BoM and Village)? Based on the wording of the card and the comparison with Throne Room, I'll guess yes: there are two card-playing events implicated in the BoM, one when you actually play it from your hand and one when you follow its instruction to play it as another card.

Donald, if these are getting annoying, by all means let us know.

[AJD]

Throne Roome - Band of Misfits.
You choose Feast.

So you trash the Feast-y Band of Misfits and gain a card.
Then you play the card again, but since it has left play it isn't a Feast anymore, so you get to choose a new action card you want the second play of the (trashed) BoM behave as?

No, you still Feast twice. I uh. My explanation is that Throne Room played Feast twice, and if that Feast is now a Band of Misfits, that's just its own personal thing. This one is not in the FAQ. I checked isotropic and funsockets and they both have you Feast twice, for what that's worth.

That's... not what I would have expected.

Throne Room isn't playing Feast twice in any case: consider the case of BoM-as-Smithy. Throne Room plays Band of Misfits once; BoM plays Smithy; Throne Room tries to play BoM a second time, but when it looks for BoM it finds a Smithy and it's like, whatever, I guess I'll just play that then. So the Throne Room itself plays BoM once and Smithy once.

But this perhaps is wading a bit too far into the weeds to be useful.

I saw this as Throne room looks around for a card to play, sees Feast, and decides to play it twice. It doesn't matter that Feast wanders off to play with his friends in the trash - Throne Room saw Feast, so it Feasts twice. Most cards don't have the option of wandering away when Throned, but Feast is special. BoM, then, is Feast for Throne Room. Even though it not only wanders off, but also reverts to BoM, Throne Room still saw Feast and wants its smorgesborg.

But Throne Room doesn't see Feast. When you play the Throne Room, the BoM is still in your hand, so it's not a Feast yet. All Throne Room sees at this point is a Band of Misfits.

[Beyond Awesome]

Throne Roome - Band of Misfits.
You choose Feast.

So you trash the Feast-y Band of Misfits and gain a card.
Then you play the card again, but since it has left play it isn't a Feast anymore, so you get to choose a new action card you want the second play of the (trashed) BoM behave as?

No, you still Feast twice. I uh. My explanation is that Throne Room played Feast twice, and if that Feast is now a Band of Misfits, that's just its own personal thing. This one is not in the FAQ. I checked isotropic and funsockets and they both have you Feast twice, for what that's worth.

That's... not what I would have expected.

Throne Room isn't playing Feast twice in any case: consider the case of BoM-as-Smithy. Throne Room plays Band of Misfits once; BoM plays Smithy; Throne Room tries to play BoM a second time, but when it looks for BoM it finds a Smithy and it's like, whatever, I guess I'll just play that then. So the Throne Room itself plays BoM once and Smithy once.

But this perhaps is wading a bit too far into the weeds to be useful.

I saw this as Throne room looks around for a card to play, sees Feast, and decides to play it twice. It doesn't matter that Feast wanders off to play with his friends in the trash - Throne Room saw Feast, so it Feasts twice. Most cards don't have the option of wandering away when Throned, but Feast is special. BoM, then, is Feast for Throne Room. Even though it not only wanders off, but also reverts to BoM, Throne Room still saw Feast and wants its smorgesborg.

But Throne Room doesn't see Feast. When you play the Throne Room, the BoM is still in your hand, so it's not a Feast yet. All Throne Room sees at this point is a Band of Misfits.

Just remember, Donald X. is God, so if he says the card works that way, then well...

[Donald X.]

That's... not what I would have expected.

Throne Room isn't playing Feast twice in any case: consider the case of BoM-as-Smithy. Throne Room plays Band of Misfits once; BoM plays Smithy; Throne Room tries to play BoM a second time, but when it looks for BoM it finds a Smithy and it's like, whatever, I guess I'll just play that then. So the Throne Room itself plays BoM once and Smithy once.

But this perhaps is wading a bit too far into the weeds to be useful.

Well it's a real question that wants a good answer.

The question is how Throne Room works; Band of Misfits is def. no longer a Feast in the trash. This question came up during work on the set, and was part of how it got the wording it got, to deal with questions as well as possible, but this question didn't come back up afterwards. I guess there's also, you are saying Throne didn't play Smithy, but that's not clear either. You play BoM as if it were etc. If you play it as Smithy, didn't you Throne a Smithy?

Anyway for the moment let's stick with, you Feast twice, since that was what made sense to me upon hearing the question.
And I will think about it in my copious free time.

[Donald X.]

where did the thread go

[Insomniac]

where did the thread go

theory moved it to dark ages previews. Band of Misfits rules questions

[theory]

I'll move these posts too.

[Donald X.]

Another potential source of bugs: I play a Village, then a BoM-as-a-Village, then a Horn of Plenty. HoP should only see two different names of cards (Village/BoM-as-a-Village and HoP).

I bet it will work, but sadly I cannot test this one yet.

But you confirm that this is what's supposed to happen? (I.e., Band of Misfits isn't considered to also be in play under its own name, or whatever.)

Yes, HoP will just see BoM as what it copied.

[werothegreat]

Procession.
Band of Misfits - turn it into Fortress.

Does it go back into my hand?

This one is in the FAQ, hooray. BoM goes back to your hand and you gain an action card costing $6. At the point at which you trashed it, it had an ability that returned it to your hand if it was trashed; at the point at which we need to know its cost, it's back to $5.

Sweet!

[pst]

Another fun fact about BoM:

If you pick up a BoM with Golem you should be able to play it as a new Golem! (You have revealed an action card that is not Golem, but then when you play it you can make it become Golem.)

(EDIT: No, this is wrong!)

[Donald X.]

Also this particular question is not that esoteric, since it happens with any multiplier (TR, KC, Procession) of a BoM that imitates a self-trashing card (Embargo, Treasure Map, Mining Village, Feast).

It does not need to be non-esoteric to be worth answering, but I do not imagine this will come up too often in games. You need BoM and one of a small number of cards and one of a small number of cards, and then, you are trashing your BoM, didn't you want that.

[blueblimp]

I think that the meaning of "it" is key here. In the blue dog discussion, the reason Ironworks doesn't give you +1 Action if you Ironworks an Ironworks then reveal a Trader is that "it" refers to the particular physical card that was gained, NOT to a card name. So because you did not actually gain any particular Ironworks, you don't get the +1 Action, even though the Ironworks remembers that you wanted to gain something named "Ironworks".

So here, I think the "it" on Throne Room must be referring to the particular physical Band of Misfits card, not to the card name "Feast".

On the other hand, imagine that TR does play BoM as a Feast the second time. Then, there is no particular physical card that Throne Room is playing; it's not playing BoM, because BoM does not think it's a Feast anymore. To me, that goes against the general interpretation of "it" in Dominion.

[Beyond Awesome]

Man, this is one complicated, but awesome set.

[Insomniac]

Fun thing to do Reread the thread and think "Buy only Money" when you see BoM

[Donald X.]

Play Band of Misfits, declaring it a Village. Then play Conspirator. Is the Conspirator non-terminal because you've already played two actions (BoM and Village)? Based on the wording of the card and the comparison with Throne Room, I'll guess yes: there are two card-playing events implicated in the BoM, one when you actually play it from your hand and one when you follow its instruction to play it as another card.

Donald, if these are getting annoying, by all means let us know.

You only played one card prior to Conspirator; BoM is played as a Village.

Ask away, I can always leave and come back later. I would post the FAQ but it has secrets.