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Author Topic: Ask FunSockets anything!  (Read 43732 times)

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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #150 on: August 20, 2012, 04:31:01 pm »
+2

I read what you're saying and I read what Goko is saying and they seem to be at odds.  While I certainly consider you the more credible source and I want to believe you, I worry that there's a disconnect somewhere and that Goko fully intends on creating their own content.
Worry all you want dude. I'm not worried.

Somehow this post is more reassuring.  Not sure why.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #151 on: August 20, 2012, 04:59:06 pm »
0

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems
I will have you know, we turned down the people who wanted to do everything with micropayments. You can ignore the hats and just buy expansions. They are in halves but the half size is still the size of the existing small expansions.

Hey - I agree that you and Jay seem to be above board here - at least as it pertains to implementation  of dominion online and payment schemes and avoiding obviously scummy ways to monetize dominion.  You probably don't have control over the $7 for 70 gokoins to buy a 60 gokoin expansion thing, and maybe you don't care.

I asked the question because Zynga has a certain reputation.  My question rephrased is: Is goko the type of company that aspires to be like Zynga in the board game space (the implication of the article - regardless of the specifics of a dominion implementation) - or are they offended by the comparisons?

I might find Bobby Brown to be an excellent singer, but I'm unlikely to want to do anything that might support him financially - because I have moral opposition to other aspects of his life.
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GigaKnight

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #152 on: August 20, 2012, 05:08:47 pm »
+1

Yet another thread turned into a 'hey I don't like how this guy thinks, how about I debate it inside a thread not made for this exact debate!'
Followed by the usual
'I really think the way I think is fine, I'll debate back!'
'Fool doesn't realize he is totally wrong! DEBATE DEBATE DEBAAAAAAAATE!!!'
'This fool is right, that fool is wrong! DEBATE!!!'
'Man you are both wrong, the fool that you think is wrong is right! You fools! DEBAAAAAAATE IT UP!!!'
And it goes on... and on.... and on.... and on... and on... until theory comes in and closes the thread/deletes the posts and stops the debate once and for all.

IMO, this is largely a failing of this format of forum / threading.  See Reddit for an example of a threading system that lets people get as off topic as they want without forcing everybody else to read it.
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GigaKnight

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #153 on: August 20, 2012, 05:30:33 pm »
0

Not sure that I agree this is "obviously not cheating". It's just cheating that everybody is party to.
I am totally fine with people playing variants that everyone has agreed to. I do not think it's reasonable to call such things "cheating." They are playing variants that everyone has agreed to.

@Varsinor: Okay to avoid miscommunication over issues that people feel strongly about, let's say instead you were talking about a variant in which, say, you can pay $0 to give another player a Curse, as your buy. I have chosen this as a random thing I don't like that I have heard of people doing.

It's one thing to provide some cards and be fine with people making up their own rules for them. It's another to specifically program a variant and offer it up. I do not wish to offer up variants I don't like. The "pay to hand out Curses" variant has no chance.

Dominion has a lot of variety to it. So providing variants isn't really that exciting. The campaigns do have variants. That variant sounded good for campaigns. A variant for the main game - such as the existing "add platinum/colony plz" variant - is going to have to sound really good to me.

Since you're discussing variants already:

I'm curious if you've created any variants in Dominion that you found particularly fun, but that didn't turn into an expansion or mechanic. Like, maybe creating per-player mini-kingdoms?  I'm just spit-balling here.  There are lots of possibilities; are there any you tried and liked, but couldn't fit into the game?
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Donald X.

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #154 on: August 20, 2012, 05:37:52 pm »
+3

I'm curious if you've created any variants in Dominion that you found particularly fun, but that didn't turn into an expansion or mechanic. Like, maybe creating per-player mini-kingdoms?  I'm just spit-balling here.  There are lots of possibilities; are there any you tried and liked, but couldn't fit into the game?
We can draw a line between spin-offs and stuff for Dominion proper. For Dominion, nope, anything I came up with that I thought was worth doing has made it into an expansion. There is a tiny residue of okay cards that no-one will miss that didn't fit. Dominion is already different each game due to the starting ten cards; whatever you might want out of a variant, just get it there.

In the very early days, when there were no expansions, I considered doing events for an expansion. Every n turns, something happens. It just seemed like pointless complexity when new cards give you so much.

For spin-offs, I might do who knows what.
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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #155 on: August 20, 2012, 05:46:59 pm »
0

It's a long shot, but is there any possibility of playing with unofficial cards on Goko? For example, it would be great to play with the Mini-Set Design Contest cards. Or, to be able to implement fan cards to play with friends. This seems like it would be near impossible without an extensive interface for defining card rules, so I'm guessing the answer is no. But it would be so awesome.
They were interested, and at the moment I am the one shooting this down. I don't want to have to spend time testing fan cards, or to have fan cards I haven't tested.

Good to know, thanks! I was talking about something more individualized to the user, such as a way for a user to create their own card to play with their friends, but not be able to use it in games that count for anything. But as I said, this would probably be needlessly complicated to create an interface that allows for the creation of fan cards without having someone at Goko in the loop. I guess my fan card playing will have to be in person!
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adf

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #156 on: August 20, 2012, 05:48:42 pm »
0


For spin-offs, I might do who knows what.


I'd suggest Castle Roller, but someone made that game already.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #157 on: August 20, 2012, 05:56:44 pm »
0

It's a long shot, but is there any possibility of playing with unofficial cards on Goko? For example, it would be great to play with the Mini-Set Design Contest cards. Or, to be able to implement fan cards to play with friends. This seems like it would be near impossible without an extensive interface for defining card rules, so I'm guessing the answer is no. But it would be so awesome.
They were interested, and at the moment I am the one shooting this down. I don't want to have to spend time testing fan cards, or to have fan cards I haven't tested.

Good to know, thanks! I was talking about something more individualized to the user, such as a way for a user to create their own card to play with their friends, but not be able to use it in games that count for anything. But as I said, this would probably be needlessly complicated to create an interface that allows for the creation of fan cards without having someone at Goko in the loop. I guess my fan card playing will have to be in person!

If they don't fix the server side validation of client actions - then there are probably a decent range of things you might be able to do - with programming knowledge and distributing your hacks on both sides - For example, I bet (blueblimp correct me if I'm wrong here) - that you could replace chancellor with a card that just gave you +2 vp every time you played it.

I think you'd have a time with true victory cards.
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blueblimp

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #158 on: August 20, 2012, 06:59:09 pm »
+1

It's a long shot, but is there any possibility of playing with unofficial cards on Goko? For example, it would be great to play with the Mini-Set Design Contest cards. Or, to be able to implement fan cards to play with friends. This seems like it would be near impossible without an extensive interface for defining card rules, so I'm guessing the answer is no. But it would be so awesome.
They were interested, and at the moment I am the one shooting this down. I don't want to have to spend time testing fan cards, or to have fan cards I haven't tested.

Good to know, thanks! I was talking about something more individualized to the user, such as a way for a user to create their own card to play with their friends, but not be able to use it in games that count for anything. But as I said, this would probably be needlessly complicated to create an interface that allows for the creation of fan cards without having someone at Goko in the loop. I guess my fan card playing will have to be in person!

If they don't fix the server side validation of client actions - then there are probably a decent range of things you might be able to do - with programming knowledge and distributing your hacks on both sides - For example, I bet (blueblimp correct me if I'm wrong here) - that you could replace chancellor with a card that just gave you +2 vp every time you played it.

I think you'd have a time with true victory cards.
My current understanding is that this isn't possible. It seems that all the rules are on the server. The only problem with validation is that the server doesn't make sure you're following the rules. But "give myself VP tokens" is not something that the client can do, as far as I can tell. It can move cards around (including playing cards), but that's about it, outside of special things cards let you do.

So, unfortunately the lack of server-side validation doesn't seem to allow anything really cool, just cheating.
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GigaKnight

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #159 on: August 20, 2012, 07:27:16 pm »
+1

I'm curious if you've created any variants in Dominion that you found particularly fun, but that didn't turn into an expansion or mechanic. Like, maybe creating per-player mini-kingdoms?  I'm just spit-balling here.  There are lots of possibilities; are there any you tried and liked, but couldn't fit into the game?
We can draw a line between spin-offs and stuff for Dominion proper. For Dominion, nope, anything I came up with that I thought was worth doing has made it into an expansion. There is a tiny residue of okay cards that no-one will miss that didn't fit. Dominion is already different each game due to the starting ten cards; whatever you might want out of a variant, just get it there.

In the very early days, when there were no expansions, I considered doing events for an expansion. Every n turns, something happens. It just seemed like pointless complexity when new cards give you so much.

For spin-offs, I might do who knows what.

Cool, thanks.  Any chance of those omitted cards getting described in a Secret History?  Maybe sometime after Guilds?  Or are they not even interesting enough for that?
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cactus

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #160 on: August 20, 2012, 07:44:04 pm »
0

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems
I will have you know, we turned down the people who wanted to do everything with micropayments.

This is very laudable IMO.

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?

I'm not implying that you Donald would necessarily be privy to this and that it is really a question for Jay should he choose to address it. It is just the question that occurs to me when reading your comment.

Sorry if you feel this is rehashing topics that have already been done to death. I know you have already said you are tired of dealing with people who are unhappy with Goko and I can understand that. What is done is done and cannot be undone & people need to live with it or move on to a new hobby.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 07:45:17 pm by cactus »
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Donald X.

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #161 on: August 20, 2012, 08:02:17 pm »
0

Cool, thanks.  Any chance of those omitted cards getting described in a Secret History?  Maybe sometime after Guilds?  Or are they not even interesting enough for that?
The chance is so high that it's already happened. Every secret history details cards that didn't make it. Dark Ages has an especially large outtakes section since I haven't talked about stuff that seemed like it might be rescued someday, and as of Dark Ages there was not much stuff left in that category.
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Donald X.

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #162 on: August 20, 2012, 08:04:39 pm »
0

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?
I don't know what companies exactly made pitches. The basis for interest level in pitches was, you know, reasonable stuff. There is really nothing to comment on there.
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blueblimp

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #163 on: August 20, 2012, 08:06:55 pm »
+1

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?
There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:
Quote
I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.
So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.
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GigaKnight

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #164 on: August 20, 2012, 08:58:45 pm »
0

Dark Ages has an especially large outtakes section since I haven't talked about stuff that seemed like it might be rescued someday, and as of Dark Ages there was not much stuff left in that category.

That's what I was looking for.  Awesome.  I'm excited to read the next one whenever you post it.  Thanks!
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #165 on: August 20, 2012, 09:11:22 pm »
0

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?
There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:
Quote
I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.
So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.

Goko isn't exactly excelling at #1.
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theory

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #166 on: August 20, 2012, 10:47:28 pm »
+12

What do you mean?  It seems like it is working equally well on all platforms.
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monteslu

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #167 on: August 21, 2012, 12:12:54 am »
0

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?
There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:
Quote
I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.
So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.

Goko isn't exactly excelling at #1.

The HTML5 part of Goko's implementation is the rendering to Canvas.  That part they're doing fine.  It's the security stuff, and the server side scaling that needs some work.
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blueblimp

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #168 on: August 21, 2012, 12:23:51 am »
0

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?
There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:
Quote
I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.
So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.

Goko isn't exactly excelling at #1.

The HTML5 part of Goko's implementation is the rendering to Canvas.  That part they're doing fine.  It's the security stuff, and the server side scaling that needs some work.
The performance on an iPad isn't adequate currently.
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noey21

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #169 on: August 21, 2012, 06:38:29 am »
0

Will there ever be a pay to play option?  Like X per month or year.  I know people have said it but I prefer that (getting all cards) then always feeling like I am playing someone that only knows certain cards and has mastered them  And YES I have bought ALL physical copies (another reason I don't really wANT TO buy them again).

I moved over seas and would love to play with my parents (they introduced me and other friends but I know they aren't going to want to buy it all again)....Still sad about iso........plus it is weird it still seems all speculation and that scares me....I would think more would be know....

But thanks to everyone for everything!
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werothegreat

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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #170 on: August 21, 2012, 08:36:34 am »
+3

Will there ever be a pay to play option?  Like X per month or year.  I know people have said it but I prefer that (getting all cards) then always feeling like I am playing someone that only knows certain cards and has mastered them  And YES I have bought ALL physical copies (another reason I don't really wANT TO buy them again).

I moved over seas and would love to play with my parents (they introduced me and other friends but I know they aren't going to want to buy it all again)....Still sad about iso........plus it is weird it still seems all speculation and that scares me....I would think more would be know....

But thanks to everyone for everything!

How long do you intend to play Dominion online?  Let's say a monthly fee would be $10.  Reasonable, no?  But if you're intending on playing Dominion online for 9 months or more, then it would have been cheaper to just buy 2 expansions a month.

This reminds me of an idea Terry Pratchett came upon - the rich stay rich because they can afford to spend less.
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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #171 on: August 21, 2012, 08:43:07 am »
0

How long do you intend to play Dominion online?  Let's say a monthly fee would be $10.  Reasonable, no?  But if you're intending on playing Dominion online for 9 months or more, then it would have been cheaper to just buy 2 expansions a month.

After the alternative is the price of two AAA-titles, $10/month does not sound that off probably, but after all I could play MMORPGs for this.
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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #172 on: August 21, 2012, 09:20:16 am »
0

Will there ever be a pay to play option?  Like X per month or year.  I know people have said it but I prefer that (getting all cards) then always feeling like I am playing someone that only knows certain cards and has mastered them  And YES I have bought ALL physical copies (another reason I don't really wANT TO buy them again).

I moved over seas and would love to play with my parents (they introduced me and other friends but I know they aren't going to want to buy it all again)....Still sad about iso........plus it is weird it still seems all speculation and that scares me....I would think more would be know....

But thanks to everyone for everything!

How long do you intend to play Dominion online?  Let's say a monthly fee would be $10.  Reasonable, no?  But if you're intending on playing Dominion online for 9 months or more, then it would have been cheaper to just buy 2 expansions a month.

This reminds me of an idea Terry Pratchett came upon - the rich stay rich because they can afford to spend less.

Alternatively, if you think Goko is gonna be bankrupt in less than 9 months, you'd prefer to pay a monthly fee.
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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #173 on: August 21, 2012, 10:34:18 am »
0

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems

Five years, huh?  Well let's hope they don't spend the first three actually making it playable.
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Re: Ask FunSockets anything!
« Reply #174 on: August 21, 2012, 10:46:38 am »
+4

On a side-note - are we still getting this Q 'n A tomorrow?
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