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[Donald X.]

So if someone has a really really extraordinarily good memory, are they playing a variant too?

Again, I have gone over this at great length in other threads.

[blueblimp]

So if someone has a really really extraordinarily good memory, are they playing a variant too?

Again, I have gone over this at great length in other threads.

Yeah, go to the FAQ -> Dominion Play, Ethics, and Conventions -> Point/Card Counters, and you will find enough reading material in the linked threads and their links (and so on) to last you a few hours at least.

[greatexpectations]

Again, I have gone over this at great length in other threads.

i put together a post with a lot of these comments in that old finals order / point counter thread. theory locked the old thread or else i would copy/paste the text here, but you can view a decent summary post here.

if i am bored at work this week i will try to add a post to the FAQ summing up donald's thoughts on some of these kinds of things for when it is inevitably brought up again.

[rod-]

I've read it all before, I just take issue with the premise.  I understand the argument completely and it is logically sound.  I still think it's silly.  Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

[Kirian]

Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

Man, I'd love to know which generation you are then.  I did not realize the cyborgs were already upon us.

[ftl]

A variant for the main game - such as the existing "add platinum/colony plz" variant - is going to have to sound really good to me.

Just curious - what's the "add platinum/colony plz" variant? Just adding plat/col to every game regardless of whether there are any prosperity cards?

[Donald X.]

Just curious - what's the "add platinum/colony plz" variant? Just adding plat/col to every game regardless of whether there are any prosperity cards?

Right; they let you just click a box to add them, even if no Prosperity cards are out. Assuming you own them. And I assume those games are casual leaderboard only. Anyway it may not feel like much of a variant, but it's not the usual method of picking whether or not to use them.

[WanderingWinder]

I've read it all before, I just take issue with the premise.  I understand the argument completely and it is logically sound.  I still think it's silly.  Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

How about we make a variant where instead of shuffling your deck, you stack it? CC instantly becomes the best player in the world, and hey. Well, with lots of stuff, particularly lots of attacks, you get into this sort of guessing game, which hand am I going to get attacked in? Villages hit perfectly efficiently. Key cards like never miss reshuffles. Your money balances out just how you want. Chancellor turns into a very very strong card. All kinds of stuff happens for you, right? So this is clearly a variant, clearly pretty far away from dominion, and given how much people hate shuffle luck, probably one lots of people would like, too (well, I actually think this game would be degenerate at some point on a lot of boards, so not really, but....). So let that 'count' or whatever. or make it where attacks can be moated by estates, 'cause I hate attacks. Or a thousand other changes you can make. Now, it's not that these changes are all bad per se - indeed, there are definitely some things you can do to make the game a little better - it's just, which things do you do, and why do you do those, and not others? I mean, if there is huge consensus for deck counters, then boom, go for it. But there isn't this huge consensus, so you fall back on the rules as printed.

As for the google-is-an-extension-of-your-knowledge. You may be interested in reading stuff by Dr. Andy Clark, like Natural-Born Cyborgs. Fascinating stuff. Anyhow, while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, like for life in general, it's a bit different when you're looking at entertainment. Like, if I call my car an extension of myself, then really Usain Bolt isn't at all the fastest guy in the world, and nobody would care about him. But we like, for whatever reason, focusing on particular aspects, and limit ourselves to have competitions which focus on these, because we enjoy it more, it's more fun.

[Tombolo]

There might not be a huge consensus, but I think there are enough of us to merit the option at some point!  Ideally at launch, for my money, but Goko probably has bigger fish to fry.

[^_^_^_^]

Yet another thread turned into a 'hey I don't like how this guy thinks, how about I debate it inside a thread not made for this exact debate!'
Followed by the usual
'I really think the way I think is fine, I'll debate back!'
'Fool doesn't realize he is totally wrong! DEBATE DEBATE DEBAAAAAAAATE!!!'
'This fool is right, that fool is wrong! DEBATE!!!'
'Man you are both wrong, the fool that you think is wrong is right! You fools! DEBAAAAAAATE IT UP!!!'
And it goes on... and on.... and on.... and on... and on... until theory comes in and closes the thread/deletes the posts and stops the debate once and for all.

[Kirian]

Yet another thread turned into a 'hey I don't like how this guy thinks, how about I debate it inside a thread not made for this exact debate!'
Followed by the usual
'I really think the way I think is fine, I'll debate back!'
'Fool doesn't realize he is totally wrong! DEBATE DEBATE DEBAAAAAAAATE!!!'
'This fool is right, that fool is wrong! DEBATE!!!'
'Man you are both wrong, the fool that you think is wrong is right! You fools! DEBAAAAAAATE IT UP!!!'
And it goes on... and on.... and on.... and on... and on... until theory comes in and closes the thread/deletes the posts and stops the debate once and for all.

Actually, for something like this, theory will usually split the thread.  Any chance of that, T-man?

/Splitters!

[Tombolo]

Yet another thread turned into a 'hey I don't like how this guy thinks, how about I debate it inside a thread not made for this exact debate!'
Followed by the usual
'I really think the way I think is fine, I'll debate back!'
'Fool doesn't realize he is totally wrong! DEBATE DEBATE DEBAAAAAAAATE!!!'
'This fool is right, that fool is wrong! DEBATE!!!'
'Man you are both wrong, the fool that you think is wrong is right! You fools! DEBAAAAAAATE IT UP!!!'
And it goes on... and on.... and on.... and on... and on... until theory comes in and closes the thread/deletes the posts and stops the debate once and for all.

so I heard iso is going down

[RiemannZetaJones]

I've read it all before, I just take issue with the premise.  I understand the argument completely and it is logically sound.  I still think it's silly.  Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

How about we make a variant where instead of shuffling your deck, you stack it? CC instantly becomes the best player in the world, and hey. Well, with lots of stuff, particularly lots of attacks, you get into this sort of guessing game, which hand am I going to get attacked in? Villages hit perfectly efficiently. Key cards like never miss reshuffles. Your money balances out just how you want. Chancellor turns into a very very strong card. All kinds of stuff happens for you, right? So this is clearly a variant, clearly pretty far away from dominion, and given how much people hate shuffle luck, probably one lots of people would like, too (well, I actually think this game would be degenerate at some point on a lot of boards, so not really, but....). So let that 'count' or whatever. or make it where attacks can be moated by estates, 'cause I hate attacks. Or a thousand other changes you can make. Now, it's not that these changes are all bad per se - indeed, there are definitely some things you can do to make the game a little better - it's just, which things do you do, and why do you do those, and not others? I mean, if there is huge consensus for deck counters, then boom, go for it. But there isn't this huge consensus, so you fall back on the rules as printed.

As for the google-is-an-extension-of-your-knowledge. You may be interested in reading stuff by Dr. Andy Clark, like Natural-Born Cyborgs. Fascinating stuff. Anyhow, while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, like for life in general, it's a bit different when you're looking at entertainment. Like, if I call my car an extension of myself, then really Usain Bolt isn't at all the fastest guy in the world, and nobody would care about him. But we like, for whatever reason, focusing on particular aspects, and limit ourselves to have competitions which focus on these, because we enjoy it more, it's more fun.

I think this would be worth it just to see the logs of CC's games.

[() | (_) ^/]

...

How about we make a variant where instead of shuffling your deck, you stack it? CC instantly becomes the best player in the world, and hey. Well, with lots of stuff, particularly lots of attacks, you get into this sort of guessing game, which hand am I going to get attacked in? Villages hit perfectly efficiently. Key cards like never miss reshuffles. Your money balances out just how you want. Chancellor turns into a very very strong card. All kinds of stuff happens for you, right?
...

I think this would be worth it just to see the logs of CC's games.

Agreed!

[Stealth Tomato]

So if someone has a really really extraordinarily good memory, are they playing a variant too?

Depends on whether you see memory as purely an innate ability. I don't, so a point counter eliminates part of the competition... but it's a part of the competition I don't particularly enjoy, so I play with the point counter.

The game is, after all, about fun.

[blueblimp]

I've read it all before, I just take issue with the premise.  I understand the argument completely and it is logically sound.  I still think it's silly.  Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

How about we make a variant where instead of shuffling your deck, you stack it? CC instantly becomes the best player in the world, and hey. Well, with lots of stuff, particularly lots of attacks, you get into this sort of guessing game, which hand am I going to get attacked in? Villages hit perfectly efficiently. Key cards like never miss reshuffles. Your money balances out just how you want. Chancellor turns into a very very strong card. All kinds of stuff happens for you, right? So this is clearly a variant, clearly pretty far away from dominion, and given how much people hate shuffle luck, probably one lots of people would like, too (well, I actually think this game would be degenerate at some point on a lot of boards, so not really, but....). So let that 'count' or whatever. or make it where attacks can be moated by estates, 'cause I hate attacks. Or a thousand other changes you can make. Now, it's not that these changes are all bad per se - indeed, there are definitely some things you can do to make the game a little better - it's just, which things do you do, and why do you do those, and not others? I mean, if there is huge consensus for deck counters, then boom, go for it. But there isn't this huge consensus, so you fall back on the rules as printed.

As for the google-is-an-extension-of-your-knowledge. You may be interested in reading stuff by Dr. Andy Clark, like Natural-Born Cyborgs. Fascinating stuff. Anyhow, while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, like for life in general, it's a bit different when you're looking at entertainment. Like, if I call my car an extension of myself, then really Usain Bolt isn't at all the fastest guy in the world, and nobody would care about him. But we like, for whatever reason, focusing on particular aspects, and limit ourselves to have competitions which focus on these, because we enjoy it more, it's more fun.

I think this would be worth it just to see the logs of CC's games.

This could also be taken farther by making every card face-up, so you don't have this weird guessing game with attacks and such. This only fails for Masquerade (because there's no way to make simultaneous play work reliably).

Edit: This sort of variant seems likely to have a huge p1 advantage on most boards.

[DStu]

Thx for the info. But may I ask why? Do you think it is not worth spending programming time on or don't you or Jay want to support a variant with a full deck tracker for some reason? Or maybe something else entirely?

I have been down the road of arguing with "but everyone will cheat so therefore everyone should get this" in some other thread here. It did not turn out to be a great use of time that time. When the rule is "you can't use a chess computer to make moves for you," or whatever it is, well, believe it or not, many people will follow the rules. The intention is to let you make a list of people to block (and to friend); use it to avoid playing with people that you suspect of cheating.

I'm not sure this is "everyone will cheat so thereforee everyon should get this" here. It's "how can you reduce the likelyhood that people will cheat".
If there is not official PC, and there is no large change on goko's code, there will be an inofficial one. Because people want to play this variante. And once you have this variante out there, and can't control it, you have it out as either cheats in tournaments, or you are back to start arguing "everyone will cheat so thereefore everyone should get this".
If you would have an official counter, there's a lot less incentive to write one that you can use to cheat. And you could turn it on and off just as you wish.

It's not about adding more variety, it's about preventing that the inofficial variante becomes the one you might get forced into.

[michaeljb]

Back on topic:

Obviously server-related stuff was a big part of why the release was pushed back. Will extra time also be taken to ensure that the complete rules of Dominion are correctly implemented? Personally I believe that it would be well worth the wait for proper rules.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Will there ever be in-game ads in Goko's version of Dominion?

http://www.videogamesintelligence.com/monetization/conference-agenda.php

[Tombolo]

Will there be sales or specials?

[Insomniac]

Oh! Cool. Well, I'm wrong then! Base Cards, Dark Ages, and Guilds do give you something in the online version.

I'm still pretty sure that all previous things that were bought do not interact with the online version, though?

This is correct.

I must update this now, I have heard back, the redeem card entitles you to ONE CARD from one SET so you could per say use the dark ages card to get cultist if you didn't feel like buying that 1/3 of dark ages.

[Donald X.]

I must update this now, I have heard back, the redeem card entitles you to ONE CARD from one SET so you could per say use the dark ages card to get cultist if you didn't feel like buying that 1/3 of dark ages.

Heard back from who, specifically?

[Captain_Frisk]

I must update this now, I have heard back, the redeem card entitles you to ONE CARD from one SET so you could per say use the dark ages card to get cultist if you didn't feel like buying that 1/3 of dark ages.

Heard back from who, specifically?

Did someone break the cone of silence?  I would assume the answer is Trisha who seems to be the face of goko.  Insomniac, despite being total scum - doesnt seem to be the type of dude IMHO that would just post random stuff he heard from a dude at a party.

[Insomniac]

I must update this now, I have heard back, the redeem card entitles you to ONE CARD from one SET so you could per say use the dark ages card to get cultist if you didn't feel like buying that 1/3 of dark ages.

Heard back from who, specifically?

Did someone break the cone of silence?  I would assume the answer is Trisha who seems to be the face of goko.  Insomniac, despite being total scum - doesnt seem to be the type of dude IMHO that would just post random stuff he heard from a dude at a party.

I emailed help@goko.com and got this response from someone named Tanya

Edit: I too expected to hear from Trisha but got Tanya, I asked on the forums, emailed and posted the question here, the email was the one that was responded to.

[blueblimp]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?