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[theory]

Trisha has agreed to answer the community's questions regarding the new FunSockets Goko Dominion.  She'll answer them next week: Wednesday, August 22.  If there is sufficient interest, we might even set up a Google Hangout.

So submit your questions below!  We'd love it if you make sure you don't post a duplicate question, so please read through what others have also asked.

[polonkus]

Hmm, seems like by then we should be able to answer most of them ourselves, right??

[werothegreat]

Would it be possible to get a relative timetable of when the expansions will be released on Goko?

[Beyond Awesome]

When can we expect the rest of the expansions?

ninja'd

[Grujah]

Will there be any deal for getting price-cuts by buying physical copies of existing/future expansions?

You are making a game where your already existing playerbase (I might be wrong, but I think this is true) know the game better than you do. How does that feel? Is it a problem?

[rrenaud]

How many people work on funsockets?

[Grujah]

What kind of achievements will there be?

Can you tell us more about this campaign mode?

(I guess this will be answered when game is released, though?)

Edit: Any possibility of a fast, lightweight mod of play for player that do not want fancy graphics?

[polonkus]

What is your long term timeline for server upkeep?
Will you release the source / hosting software if/when you decide to shut down the game?

[Beyond Awesome]

Edit: Any possibility of a fast, lightweight mod of play for player that do not want fancy graphics?

That is a great question. At the very least, I think in pro-mode there should be a way to turn off graphics.

And, I thought of another question: How will we be able to get the Base Cards with new art? Will we have to pay for it? Unlock it? What about those of us who own the physical copy and have that weird card that came with it? Also, when will Base Card art be available?

[lycotic]

Is there any timeline for a phone edition?   Seems like it's tablet-only for now.  If there is one, will there be a version that can be played against a bot on the subway (no connectivity)?

[werothegreat]

Do you have any plans for a maniacal laughter sound effect when a Hermit turns into a Madman?

[Ozle]

Is she young and single?

[Davio]

Will there be a package deal to purchase all of the current and coming expansions in one go?

I'd rather do this - especially if it's cheaper than individual purchases - and be done with it.

[Insomniac]

So I have to ask since this goes live on the 16th with 1/3 dark ages the redeem cards are now relevant.

1) We know that dark ages / Guilds / base cards have these redeem cards.

2) We know that 1/3 of dark ages launches with this

3) I personally intend to buy this and dark ages.

So I guess I'm asking what do these cards entitle me to, I won't be able to get dark ages where I live until a reasonable amount of time has passed since release (takes a while to get up here to Canada). And I want to buy all the sets available as they become available on this, so what does the dark ages card entitle me to

a) 1/3 of dark ages for free?
b) ALL of dark ages for free?
c) something else?

and if it's b, what will happen should I have already purchased 1/3 of dark ages?

[adf]

You've managed to snag perhaps THE golden IP of the decade, but a lot of companies seem to want to roll their own solutions (e.g. DoW) or produce for specific platforms (mostly iOS). Do you have other licenses in the pipeline? Are any with companies other than RGG?

[Donald X.]

Is she young and single?

She is dating Wei-Hwa Huang, world-famous Sudoku player and developer of Race for the Galaxy.

[Davio]

World famous Sudoku player?

I bet he can solve this one!


I kiiiid, I kiiiiid

[theory]

Is she young and single?

She is dating Wei-Hwa Huang, world-famous Sudoku player and developer of Race for the Galaxy.

Easy way to troll the BGG RFTG forums: "Dominion > RFTG because Tom Lehmann and Wei-Hwa play Dominion, but Donald X does not play RFTG."

[blueblimp]

Is she young and single?

She is dating Wei-Hwa Huang, world-famous Sudoku player and developer of Race for the Galaxy.

...and apparently has a Wikipedia page, which among other things mentions he was a Putnam Fellow in 1993. (Background: means top 5 in a very difficult North America-wide undergraduate math contest.)

[chwhite]

You've managed to snag perhaps THE golden IP of the decade, but a lot of companies seem to want to roll their own solutions (e.g. DoW) or produce for specific platforms (mostly iOS). Do you have other licenses in the pipeline? Are any with companies other than RGG?

Wasn't there a rumor about them having Citadels too?  I'd imagine they probably have a few RGG titles in the pipeline.

[Forge!!!]

Is she young and single?

She is dating Wei-Hwa Huang, world-famous Sudoku player and developer of Race for the Galaxy.

No questions then, just a good work.

[Donald X.]

Easy way to troll the BGG RFTG forums: "Dominion > RFTG because Tom Lehmann and Wei-Hwa play Dominion, but Donald X does not play RFTG."

I've played maybe three games of it? I've played more games of San Juan. And I've made a bunch of games that fall into that general family - you have cards in hand with rules, build up a tableau over half an hour, play simultaneously.

Wei-Hwa himself made a dice version, Roll for the Galaxy. I played it once; it was good. RGG is making it but there is no release date for it yet; could be a ways off.

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay, another question, will we ever have the option of turning off animations? I sure hope the answer is yes to this.

[cooperaa]

Any plans of allowing players to tweak how the cards are laid out on screen?  Right now the kingdom cards go from left-to-right and bottom-to-top in ascending price order.  IRL, I play left-to-right and top-to-bottom so the $2s are in the top left and the $6s are in the bottom right.

Obviously something minor but it throws me for a loop every time I play on Goko.

[Captain_Frisk]

Is she young and single?

She is dating Wei-Hwa Huang, world-famous Sudoku player and developer of Race for the Galaxy.

How dare you cut off Trisha's dating possibilities by outing her relationship?  Ozle's a good man!

[rrenaud]

Ambassador/Ambassador, or Ambassador/Silver/Ambassador?

[eHalcyon]

World famous Sudoku player?

I bet he can solve this one!

(snip)

I kiiiid, I kiiiiid

That one has multiple solutions!

[Qvist]

As Dominion will get removed from BSW, are any translations (especially into German) planned in the near future?
Will you publish a roadmap of upcoming features?

[Captain_Frisk]

How can I download a batch of play logs for analysis?

[Kirian]

How can I download a batch of play logs for analysis?

As of now, http://dominionlogs.goko.com is public, though you'd need a script to scrape them.

[Donald X.]

As Dominion will get removed from BSW, are any translations (especially into German) planned in the near future?
Will you publish a roadmap of upcoming features?

The biggest upcoming features are:

- the rest of the expansions
- achievements
- tutorial
- automatic tournaments

I cannot answer the translations thing but man I hope so.

[Gansura]

How can I download a batch of play logs for analysis?

As of now, http://dominionlogs.goko.com is public, though you'd need a script to scrape them.

FYI - I poked around in these logs and they include the names of the as yet unreleased Dark Ages cards, including at least one that is not at the reddit link.

[adf]

Ha - I did the same thing, and I could determine its cost but not entirely how it functioned. I wonder if this means that the logs are insufficiently detailed? 

[Watno]

Hey this is a fun way of preview too
I think i figured out the remaining kingdom card, not sure about the last ruin though

[ftl]

Question: are you going to have official FunSockets tournaments or a league or something like that?

[Ozle]

Is she young and single?

She is dating Wei-Hwa Huang, world-famous Sudoku player and developer of Race for the Galaxy.

How dare you cut off Trisha's dating possibilities by outing her relationship?  Ozle's a good man!

Actually, I'm a terrible human being, but thanks for the support!

Will they answer questions on Cost?!
If so...whats it going to cost?

[ftl]

Since the answers will come next week, after it's already released, presumably we'll know the costs by then!

[michaeljb]

I know your name, I know your quest, so....

What is your favorite color?

[cooperaa]

Will they be implementing a bias feature for card selection? I'd like to play a bunch of games biased for Dark Ages cards after release so I can see how they play.

[Captain_Frisk]

Will you be implementing the ability to rejoin a game in the event of a disconnection?

[blueblimp]

Do you plan to implement a point counter yourselves? What is your policy regarding 3rd-party extensions (including but not limited to point counters)?

Edit: Are custom AI's on the horizon? If so, how will they work?

[Beyond Awesome]

Do you plan to implement a point counter yourselves? What is your policy regarding 3rd-party extensions (including but not limited to point counters)?

Edit: Are custom AI's on the horizon? If so, how will they work?

We should get a point counter because really someone just needs to open up a text log and copy the buys of an opponent, or they can just write it on paper.

[Donald X.]

We should get a point counter because really someone just needs to open up a text log and copy the buys of an opponent, or they can just write it on paper.

We talked about it, and it would be trivial since there already is one which only the AI uses. I don't know for sure if it will happen, but it's likely if people are clamoring for it.

[Elysium]

Clamor.

[Captain_Frisk]

Clamor, even if it means I am banned from kirian tourneys for asking.

[Tombolo]

Nthing the clamor.

[Kirian]

Clamor, even if it means I am banned from kirian tourneys for asking.

Meh, I prefer sans counter, but I'd much rather have an official point counter than an unofficial one.

[^_^_^_^]

What sort of prior experience do these developers have? Also, how many of you actually played Dominion before the Funsockets Goko Dominion was brainstormed?

[bozzball]

Is she young and single?

She is dating Wei-Hwa Huang, world-famous Sudoku player and developer of Race for the Galaxy.

He is a nice guy. I met him at the Maths Olympiads in Moscow and Istanbul.

[Kirian]

Also, how many of you actually played Dominion before the Funsockets Goko Dominion was brainstormed?

W-H Huang developed RFTG, and has playtester credit on at least a couple of Dominion expansions.  He is dating Trisha, who is Goko's lead(?) for Dominion.  You connect the dots.

[Ozle]

Clamour, even if it means I am banned from kirian tourneys for asking.

+1 to the Clamour

[cactus]

Any thoughts on fan cards being implemented in some way in the future?

I'd say there looks like there is probably plenty of replay-ability for about the next.... oh.... decade or two with what DX has designed but there are a few cute ideas out there in custom-card-designer-land. I've always thought the dragon from the fairytale expansion was nice. Also bunch of folks here on dominion strategy seem to be working on a custom expansion at the moment.

Obviously such fanciful ideas would have to wait until Goko have got the basics nailed down nicely however....

Let me cancel that question. What I have now found out about the Goko implementation has left me with such an unpleasant taste in my mouth that I'm not sure I want more reveals....

[Captain_Frisk]

Clamour, even if it means I am banned from kirian tourneys for asking.

+1 to the Clamour

-1 for taking the effort to quote me and then intentionally misspell the word!  I speak 'Merican damnit.

As for official counting - someone is going to make an unofficial one (and the platinum / platinum opening I think just confirms how easy that will be) - so you might as well level the playing field - not to mention that every time someone purchases a province and loses the game when they should have bought a duchy instead - is one more polluting datapoint in the game logs that hinders our study of the game - which will hopefully unlock the true power of the scout.

[Grujah]

I am not sure if this was answered before:

If I have Base game and expansion A (lets say, Seaside) and my opponent has Base game and expansion B (Prosperity) - what cards can we use in game - in auto matchup?
I guess when you host the game you can choose only from your expansions.

[Captain_Frisk]

Will automatch be implemented?  Can I filter opponents based on rating?

[Captain_Frisk]

How are ratings calculated?

[Joseph2302]

what do dominion coins do?? i have 66 dominion coins, but no idea what theyre useful for!! also, please can u explain the rating as well??

[Elysium]

What sort of prior experience do these developers have? Also, how many of you actually played Dominion before the Funsockets Goko Dominion was brainstormed?

I'm also interested in the familiarity the developers had with Dominion before starting their work.  The Deck Builder implementation especially speaks to me as an aspect that was designed by people who don't "get" Dominion, and who thought it was more akin to MTG.  Who saves entire decks to play over and over again? (besides Paralyzed)  The whole point of the game is that it changes every time.  Most people want to either play 1) a completely random deck, 2) a random deck minus a few cards they hate, 3) a random deck plus a few cards they want right then (for that one game) or 4) a random set biased towards a specific mixture (of one set or no attacks or guaranteed +2 action).

As it is right now, the game will give you a random deck, but if you want any specific card you have to either randomize your entire set until it pops up (and good luck waiting for 2 or 3 card combos to come up), or go create an entire deck, save it, create a game and load it, and then likely never play that saved deck ever again.  This is such a waste of time for a "feature" that not many people really need. 

Also, given that Goko is simultaneously developing at least 4 games (including Dominion) and potentially many more in the pipeline, how much attention is it really getting?  Are the "best guys" on it?  Will updates be frequent (to fix all the bugs that still remain, some of them game breaking, and fix all the UI and speed issues) or will the developers be busy working on RftG or some other game?

[keldon]

Also, given that Goko is simultaneously developing at least 4 games (including Dominion) and potentially many more in the pipeline, how much attention is it really getting?  Are the "best guys" on it?  Will updates be frequent (to fix all the bugs that still remain, some of them game breaking, and fix all the UI and speed issues) or will the developers be busy working on RftG or some other game?

Work on RFTG has already been going on for some time, and not by the same people as those working on Dominion.

[adf]

Are you involved in RFTG dev on Goko, keldon? If so, are you able to speak about it at all? Will you be taking down your free implementation when it launches?

[rrenaud]

Keldon's implementation is going down when it launches.  Grab it while you still can ;P.

[keldon]

NDAs are tricky things, but I'll say yes, I am involved, and my free implementation will be taken down when it releases.  That was supposed to be around the same time as Dominion, but I got a later start.

[theory]

By the way, if you've never played Keldon's RFTG: it's the only board game implementation I've played that might be better than Isotropic.

[Captain_Frisk]

Will you be continuing community based beta testing for upcoming features etc.?

[Rabid]

Have you thought about increasing the options for the user to customise the user interface?

How about:
Background colours.
Music
Rearranging the supply
Custom colour & sounds for user prompts
Fully custom UI skins

[Captain_Frisk]

When will the HD version launch?

[ftl]

How are ratings calculated?

OOh, that's a good one, seconded.

[Ozle]

"Ask FunSockets anything!"

In what year will the Heat Death of the Universe happen?
Who determines whether Santa is naughty or nice, or is he the only one that doesn't get presents at Christmas (Note: We all know its not Mrs Claus because she is clearly fictional)
Will Wyle E Coyote ever catch that stupid Road Runner?
Jay Z had 99 problems, what was problem no. 54?

Oh and how many staff are at Goko, because there are an awful lot of promised products announced by them currently?

[Christy]

"Ask FunSockets anything!"


Will Wyle E Coyote ever catch that stupid Road Runner?

I'm not from FunSockets but I can answer that one

[Lashof]

There have been reports of many security holes in your app. These are all listed in public forums, so I'm not revealing anything that sinister types could exploit that they don't already know:

1)  Apparently when you register, the site sends your password in plaintext to your email.  Is goko.com storing passwords in plaintext?  If so, how can I trust them with my payment information?

2)  It is possible to send script tags in in-game chat, and execute arbitrary javascript in other user's browsers.  How do I know I'll be safe when playing multiplayer or hanging out in goko.com lobbies?

3)  The server sends the whole game state to the client.  How can I trust any leaderboards or tournaments in the future if my opponents can see my hand and the order of our decks?

4)  The server doesn't validate what the client says it is doing.  How can I beat someone who opens Platinum/Platinum or plays 10 Bridges on turn 1?


More importantly, some of these flaws are web development 101.  Even if they are fixed, how can I be confident that other flaws aren't compromising my user information?

[Guy Srinivasan]

Also, how many of you actually played Dominion before the Funsockets Goko Dominion was brainstormed?

W-H Huang developed RFTG, and has playtester credit on at least a couple of Dominion expansions.  He is dating Trisha, who is Goko's lead(?) for Dominion.  You connect the dots.

Okay, I'll ask it. Which came first, W-H dating Trisha, or RGG dating Goko?

[Captain_Frisk]

Also, how many of you actually played Dominion before the Funsockets Goko Dominion was brainstormed?

W-H Huang developed RFTG, and has playtester credit on at least a couple of Dominion expansions.  He is dating Trisha, who is Goko's lead(?) for Dominion.  You connect the dots.

I think from my conversations - she isn't the lead - but rather the community manager / liason.  She's made reference to taking feedback to the project lead before.  Not to say that she isn't important - but I don't think that her agreeing that something needs to be fixed necessarily results in it being a high priority.

[blueblimp]

Might want to clarify that for my question, people were more interested in the counter/extension part than the AI part.

[opus]

I have been buying physical copies of Dominion out of respect for a game developer who allowed Isotropic to continue. Depending on the answer to my questions, this may have been a mistake.

Can I redeem these for online versions?

If I buy a physical copy of Dark Ages, do I get the online copy free?

Do I at least get a discount for having purchased the physical copies?

[Captain_Frisk]

What is the peak number of unique users who are attempting to access the servers.  How many did you performance test for?

[ftl]

I have been buying physical copies of Dominion out of respect for a game developer who allowed Isotropic to continue. Depending on the answer to my questions, this may have been a mistake.

Can I redeem these for online versions?

If I buy a physical copy of Dark Ages, do I get the online copy free?

Do I at least get a discount for having purchased the physical copies?

I believe that the answer to all of those has already been given as no. The online versions are financed independently and have to make money on their own; they get nothing from physical sales.

[Insomniac]

I have been buying physical copies of Dominion out of respect for a game developer who allowed Isotropic to continue. Depending on the answer to my questions, this may have been a mistake.

Can I redeem these for online versions?

If I buy a physical copy of Dark Ages, do I get the online copy free?

Do I at least get a discount for having purchased the physical copies?

I believe that the answer to all of those has already been given as no. The online versions are financed independently and have to make money on their own; they get nothing from physical sales.

Thats not true actually, Base Cards, Guilds and Dark ages all come with redeem cards presumably that can be used to redeem but we don't know what redeeming them does if anything

[ftl]

Oh! Cool. Well, I'm wrong then! Base Cards, Dark Ages, and Guilds do give you something in the online version.

I'm still pretty sure that all previous things that were bought do not interact with the online version, though?

[Insomniac]

Oh! Cool. Well, I'm wrong then! Base Cards, Dark Ages, and Guilds do give you something in the online version.

I'm still pretty sure that all previous things that were bought do not interact with the online version, though?

This is correct.

[Biderman]

Diring my testing, I discovered that I can deliberately crash my opponents computer by simply typing code into the game interface? I can easily hack your site to redirect users who are logging in to any site I wish.

What plans do you have to make us feel that your site security is going to be at an acceptable level for us to feel comfortable giving you our credit card info?

[blueblimp]

This sort of vitriol does not help anyone. (Edit: Thanks for toning it down. This post is out of date now.)

[Biderman]

This sort of vitriol does not help anyone.

Your right, my could probably use a lot of work. But since I'm asking them to explain why an 18 year old can run circles around their "security procedures" I think it is wholly justified.


-----

Your right. I reworded my post.

[Beyond Awesome]

New question: Now that you have pushed back the launch to continue beta testing, do you have a new ETA for this product?

[^_^_^_^]

This sort of vitriol does not help anyone.

Your right, my could probably use a lot of work. But since I'm asking them to explain why an 18 year old can run circles around their "security procedures" I think it is wholly justified.


-----

Your right. I reworded my post.

In fact, I'm younger, and if I felt like it, I could have probably tried to DOS them. But, then, that wouldn't be fun until they fixed the main stuff, then I could DOS to bring to their attention that there is still holes. But, I'm not a complete jerk.

[rspeer]

Diring my testing, I discovered that I can deliberately crash my opponents computer by simply typing code into the game interface? I can easily hack your site to redirect users who are logging in to any site I wish.

What plans do you have to make us feel that your site security is going to be at an acceptable level for us to feel comfortable giving you our credit card info?

This question is already being asked, with less WOOT I AM A HAXOR and more reality.

[microman]

How long will it take for players like me, that have a skill ranking of 22 on isotropic, but are new to the forum, to be able to play on goko.com

[Varsinor]

We talked about it, and it would be trivial since there already is one which only the AI uses. I don't know for sure if it will happen, but it's likely if people are clamoring for it.

Then I hereby clamor at the top of my lungs not only for a simple point counter, but also for an official full deck counter at least as extensive as Dr Held's Chrome extension. (It could be more extensive in also tracking discarded cards which I would welcome a lot.)

I realize that you ruled that using point or deck counters is a variant and therefore there needs to be an option ensuring that people who don't want to play opponents who use a counter don't get auto-matched with them.

But I and many others like this variant a lot better than the 'normal' Dominion without a counter.

I'll go as far as to say that I'll only really like the goko version if there is a full deck counter for it. For me, this is probably the most important thing about the whole implementation. (Well, after fixing the obvious massive flaws which are still at hand now, of course, but I count that as going without saying... )

[Donald X.]

Then I hereby clamor at the top of my lungs not only for a simple point counter, but also for an official full deck counter at least as extensive as Dr Held's Chrome extension. (It could be more extensive in also tracking discarded cards which I would welcome a lot.)

A full deck counter seems very unlikely.

[blueblimp]

One reason I want to know their policy on 3rd-party extensions is because full deck tracking is actually easier here than on isotropic. It's not something they need to implement themselves, as long as they don't intend to forbid it (assuming of course that it's subject to similar constraints as isotropic's PCE).

Edit: Also there are other interesting things, completely unrelated to deck tracking, that could be done with a 3rd-party extension.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Then I hereby clamor at the top of my lungs not only for a simple point counter, but also for an official full deck counter at least as extensive as Dr Held's Chrome extension. (It could be more extensive in also tracking discarded cards which I would welcome a lot.)

A full deck counter seems very unlikely.

A full deck counter seems inevitable given what some have revealed about how much information the client has.  Whether that full deck counter is part of the app or not is completely up to Goko.

[bozzball]

"American Hot" (Pepperoni and chilli slices) or "Hawaiian" (Ham and Pineapple)?

[Varsinor]

A full deck counter seems very unlikely.

Thx for the info. But may I ask why? Do you think it is not worth spending programming time on or don't you or Jay want to support a variant with a full deck tracker for some reason? Or maybe something else entirely?

If it is about the time programming it, I would think that having the information should help a lot for programming better bots as well. Or maybe all cards in the deck are already counted for the bots right now? (That would certainly seem important to program a good bot.)

If the alternative (hopefully ) is that some fan programs and distributes an extension, it really seems better to have the deck tracker available as an official option for everyone without installing some extension which might need a specific browser.
I mean, there was the fairness concern about the old deck tracker that it gives an advantage because it displays the information more comfortably for the person who has installed the extension. Which is certainly true to some extent, so it would really be fairer to just have it officially for everyone who plays in a game where all opponents agreed to it.

[Donald X.]

Thx for the info. But may I ask why? Do you think it is not worth spending programming time on or don't you or Jay want to support a variant with a full deck tracker for some reason? Or maybe something else entirely?

I am not sure Jay will even approve a point counter. I personally do not mind that, but do not approve of a full deck counter. I do not think it's at all likely that Jay would approve a full deck counter.

I have been down the road of arguing with "but everyone will cheat so therefore everyone should get this" in some other thread here. It did not turn out to be a great use of time that time. When the rule is "you can't use a chess computer to make moves for you," or whatever it is, well, believe it or not, many people will follow the rules. The intention is to let you make a list of people to block (and to friend); use it to avoid playing with people that you suspect of cheating.

[Varsinor]

I have been down the road of arguing with "but everyone will cheat so therefore everyone should get this" in some other thread here.

I think you may have misunderstood me, I wasn't talking about cheating in my posting above at all.

I was talking about the case when all players have agreed to the possible use of a full deck counter which announces itself and provides the information to all players - like the current one for Isotropic. However, it is quite likely that such a deck counter will not be able to display the information as comfortably for people who have not installed the extension - maybe because they do not want to install a new browser or don't like installing unofficial extensions. Which gives some advantage to the people using the extension. Not an illegal advantage which would have to do anything with cheating because the other players have agreed to it, but still.

So this is obviously not cheating but people mutually agreeing to play a Dominion variant which is not the 'mainstream' version, but nevertheless quite popular (at least on Isotropic).
Why shouldn't they be able to do that if it enhances their enjoyment of Dominion?

[michaeljb]

Hey, Goko should be all for that, one more thing to monetize

[Varsinor]

Additionally, if the official interface doesn't offer an option to prohibit, require or not care about a full deck counter, it might become difficult to tell for sure if all people mutually agreed to the counter variant - like currently on Isotropic. There it can easily happen that people formally agreed to an auto-match with someone announcing the extension in his status but in reality only wanted to agree to the simple point counter and didn't see this status before accepting the game. Having incorporated an official option about the PCE in the interface would have solved this problem.

[bozzball]

I have been down the road of arguing with "but everyone will cheat so therefore everyone should get this" in some other thread here.

I think you may have misunderstood me, I wasn't talking about cheating in my posting above at all.

I was talking about the case when all players have agreed to the possible use of a full deck counter which announces itself and provides the information to all players - like the current one for Isotropic. However, it is quite likely that such a deck counter will not be able to display the information as comfortably for people who have not installed the extension - maybe because they do not want to install a new browser or don't like installing unofficial extensions. Which gives some advantage to the people using the extension. Not an illegal advantage which would have to do anything with cheating because the other players have agreed to it, but still.

So this is obviously not cheating but people mutually agreeing to play a Dominion variant which is not the 'mainstream' version, but nevertheless quite popular (at least on Isotropic).
Why shouldn't they be able to do that if it enhances their enjoyment of Dominion?

Not sure that I agree this is "obviously not cheating". It's just cheating that everybody is party to.

[Varsinor]

Not sure that I agree this is "obviously not cheating". It's just cheating that everybody is party to.

Sorry, but this is just ridiculous. I am not sure why it was even necessary because it is obvious, but Donald X. confirmed himself in several postings (let me check quickly, for instance *here*) that mutually agreeing to play a variant is obviously not cheating but totally OK.

EDIT: *Here*'s another link to such a posting from Donald. Note the ironic undertone which seems to imply how ridiculous any other notion would be...

[Donald X.]

Not sure that I agree this is "obviously not cheating". It's just cheating that everybody is party to.

I am totally fine with people playing variants that everyone has agreed to. I do not think it's reasonable to call such things "cheating." They are playing variants that everyone has agreed to.

@Varsinor: Okay to avoid miscommunication over issues that people feel strongly about, let's say instead you were talking about a variant in which, say, you can pay $0 to give another player a Curse, as your buy. I have chosen this as a random thing I don't like that I have heard of people doing.

It's one thing to provide some cards and be fine with people making up their own rules for them. It's another to specifically program a variant and offer it up. I do not wish to offer up variants I don't like. The "pay to hand out Curses" variant has no chance.

Dominion has a lot of variety to it. So providing variants isn't really that exciting. The campaigns do have variants. That variant sounded good for campaigns. A variant for the main game - such as the existing "add platinum/colony plz" variant - is going to have to sound really good to me.

[rod-]

So if someone has a really really extraordinarily good memory, are they playing a variant too?

[Donald X.]

So if someone has a really really extraordinarily good memory, are they playing a variant too?

Again, I have gone over this at great length in other threads.

[blueblimp]

So if someone has a really really extraordinarily good memory, are they playing a variant too?

Again, I have gone over this at great length in other threads.

Yeah, go to the FAQ -> Dominion Play, Ethics, and Conventions -> Point/Card Counters, and you will find enough reading material in the linked threads and their links (and so on) to last you a few hours at least.

[greatexpectations]

Again, I have gone over this at great length in other threads.

i put together a post with a lot of these comments in that old finals order / point counter thread. theory locked the old thread or else i would copy/paste the text here, but you can view a decent summary post here.

if i am bored at work this week i will try to add a post to the FAQ summing up donald's thoughts on some of these kinds of things for when it is inevitably brought up again.

[rod-]

I've read it all before, I just take issue with the premise.  I understand the argument completely and it is logically sound.  I still think it's silly.  Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

[Kirian]

Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

Man, I'd love to know which generation you are then.  I did not realize the cyborgs were already upon us.

[ftl]

A variant for the main game - such as the existing "add platinum/colony plz" variant - is going to have to sound really good to me.

Just curious - what's the "add platinum/colony plz" variant? Just adding plat/col to every game regardless of whether there are any prosperity cards?

[Donald X.]

Just curious - what's the "add platinum/colony plz" variant? Just adding plat/col to every game regardless of whether there are any prosperity cards?

Right; they let you just click a box to add them, even if no Prosperity cards are out. Assuming you own them. And I assume those games are casual leaderboard only. Anyway it may not feel like much of a variant, but it's not the usual method of picking whether or not to use them.

[WanderingWinder]

I've read it all before, I just take issue with the premise.  I understand the argument completely and it is logically sound.  I still think it's silly.  Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

How about we make a variant where instead of shuffling your deck, you stack it? CC instantly becomes the best player in the world, and hey. Well, with lots of stuff, particularly lots of attacks, you get into this sort of guessing game, which hand am I going to get attacked in? Villages hit perfectly efficiently. Key cards like never miss reshuffles. Your money balances out just how you want. Chancellor turns into a very very strong card. All kinds of stuff happens for you, right? So this is clearly a variant, clearly pretty far away from dominion, and given how much people hate shuffle luck, probably one lots of people would like, too (well, I actually think this game would be degenerate at some point on a lot of boards, so not really, but....). So let that 'count' or whatever. or make it where attacks can be moated by estates, 'cause I hate attacks. Or a thousand other changes you can make. Now, it's not that these changes are all bad per se - indeed, there are definitely some things you can do to make the game a little better - it's just, which things do you do, and why do you do those, and not others? I mean, if there is huge consensus for deck counters, then boom, go for it. But there isn't this huge consensus, so you fall back on the rules as printed.

As for the google-is-an-extension-of-your-knowledge. You may be interested in reading stuff by Dr. Andy Clark, like Natural-Born Cyborgs. Fascinating stuff. Anyhow, while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, like for life in general, it's a bit different when you're looking at entertainment. Like, if I call my car an extension of myself, then really Usain Bolt isn't at all the fastest guy in the world, and nobody would care about him. But we like, for whatever reason, focusing on particular aspects, and limit ourselves to have competitions which focus on these, because we enjoy it more, it's more fun.

[Tombolo]

There might not be a huge consensus, but I think there are enough of us to merit the option at some point!  Ideally at launch, for my money, but Goko probably has bigger fish to fry.

[^_^_^_^]

Yet another thread turned into a 'hey I don't like how this guy thinks, how about I debate it inside a thread not made for this exact debate!'
Followed by the usual
'I really think the way I think is fine, I'll debate back!'
'Fool doesn't realize he is totally wrong! DEBATE DEBATE DEBAAAAAAAATE!!!'
'This fool is right, that fool is wrong! DEBATE!!!'
'Man you are both wrong, the fool that you think is wrong is right! You fools! DEBAAAAAAATE IT UP!!!'
And it goes on... and on.... and on.... and on... and on... until theory comes in and closes the thread/deletes the posts and stops the debate once and for all.

[Kirian]

Yet another thread turned into a 'hey I don't like how this guy thinks, how about I debate it inside a thread not made for this exact debate!'
Followed by the usual
'I really think the way I think is fine, I'll debate back!'
'Fool doesn't realize he is totally wrong! DEBATE DEBATE DEBAAAAAAAATE!!!'
'This fool is right, that fool is wrong! DEBATE!!!'
'Man you are both wrong, the fool that you think is wrong is right! You fools! DEBAAAAAAATE IT UP!!!'
And it goes on... and on.... and on.... and on... and on... until theory comes in and closes the thread/deletes the posts and stops the debate once and for all.

Actually, for something like this, theory will usually split the thread.  Any chance of that, T-man?

/Splitters!

[Tombolo]

Yet another thread turned into a 'hey I don't like how this guy thinks, how about I debate it inside a thread not made for this exact debate!'
Followed by the usual
'I really think the way I think is fine, I'll debate back!'
'Fool doesn't realize he is totally wrong! DEBATE DEBATE DEBAAAAAAAATE!!!'
'This fool is right, that fool is wrong! DEBATE!!!'
'Man you are both wrong, the fool that you think is wrong is right! You fools! DEBAAAAAAATE IT UP!!!'
And it goes on... and on.... and on.... and on... and on... until theory comes in and closes the thread/deletes the posts and stops the debate once and for all.

so I heard iso is going down

[RiemannZetaJones]

I've read it all before, I just take issue with the premise.  I understand the argument completely and it is logically sound.  I still think it's silly.  Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

How about we make a variant where instead of shuffling your deck, you stack it? CC instantly becomes the best player in the world, and hey. Well, with lots of stuff, particularly lots of attacks, you get into this sort of guessing game, which hand am I going to get attacked in? Villages hit perfectly efficiently. Key cards like never miss reshuffles. Your money balances out just how you want. Chancellor turns into a very very strong card. All kinds of stuff happens for you, right? So this is clearly a variant, clearly pretty far away from dominion, and given how much people hate shuffle luck, probably one lots of people would like, too (well, I actually think this game would be degenerate at some point on a lot of boards, so not really, but....). So let that 'count' or whatever. or make it where attacks can be moated by estates, 'cause I hate attacks. Or a thousand other changes you can make. Now, it's not that these changes are all bad per se - indeed, there are definitely some things you can do to make the game a little better - it's just, which things do you do, and why do you do those, and not others? I mean, if there is huge consensus for deck counters, then boom, go for it. But there isn't this huge consensus, so you fall back on the rules as printed.

As for the google-is-an-extension-of-your-knowledge. You may be interested in reading stuff by Dr. Andy Clark, like Natural-Born Cyborgs. Fascinating stuff. Anyhow, while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, like for life in general, it's a bit different when you're looking at entertainment. Like, if I call my car an extension of myself, then really Usain Bolt isn't at all the fastest guy in the world, and nobody would care about him. But we like, for whatever reason, focusing on particular aspects, and limit ourselves to have competitions which focus on these, because we enjoy it more, it's more fun.

I think this would be worth it just to see the logs of CC's games.

[() | (_) ^/]

...

How about we make a variant where instead of shuffling your deck, you stack it? CC instantly becomes the best player in the world, and hey. Well, with lots of stuff, particularly lots of attacks, you get into this sort of guessing game, which hand am I going to get attacked in? Villages hit perfectly efficiently. Key cards like never miss reshuffles. Your money balances out just how you want. Chancellor turns into a very very strong card. All kinds of stuff happens for you, right?
...

I think this would be worth it just to see the logs of CC's games.

Agreed!

[Stealth Tomato]

So if someone has a really really extraordinarily good memory, are they playing a variant too?

Depends on whether you see memory as purely an innate ability. I don't, so a point counter eliminates part of the competition... but it's a part of the competition I don't particularly enjoy, so I play with the point counter.

The game is, after all, about fun.

[blueblimp]

I've read it all before, I just take issue with the premise.  I understand the argument completely and it is logically sound.  I still think it's silly.  Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

How about we make a variant where instead of shuffling your deck, you stack it? CC instantly becomes the best player in the world, and hey. Well, with lots of stuff, particularly lots of attacks, you get into this sort of guessing game, which hand am I going to get attacked in? Villages hit perfectly efficiently. Key cards like never miss reshuffles. Your money balances out just how you want. Chancellor turns into a very very strong card. All kinds of stuff happens for you, right? So this is clearly a variant, clearly pretty far away from dominion, and given how much people hate shuffle luck, probably one lots of people would like, too (well, I actually think this game would be degenerate at some point on a lot of boards, so not really, but....). So let that 'count' or whatever. or make it where attacks can be moated by estates, 'cause I hate attacks. Or a thousand other changes you can make. Now, it's not that these changes are all bad per se - indeed, there are definitely some things you can do to make the game a little better - it's just, which things do you do, and why do you do those, and not others? I mean, if there is huge consensus for deck counters, then boom, go for it. But there isn't this huge consensus, so you fall back on the rules as printed.

As for the google-is-an-extension-of-your-knowledge. You may be interested in reading stuff by Dr. Andy Clark, like Natural-Born Cyborgs. Fascinating stuff. Anyhow, while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, like for life in general, it's a bit different when you're looking at entertainment. Like, if I call my car an extension of myself, then really Usain Bolt isn't at all the fastest guy in the world, and nobody would care about him. But we like, for whatever reason, focusing on particular aspects, and limit ourselves to have competitions which focus on these, because we enjoy it more, it's more fun.

I think this would be worth it just to see the logs of CC's games.

This could also be taken farther by making every card face-up, so you don't have this weird guessing game with attacks and such. This only fails for Masquerade (because there's no way to make simultaneous play work reliably).

Edit: This sort of variant seems likely to have a huge p1 advantage on most boards.

[DStu]

Thx for the info. But may I ask why? Do you think it is not worth spending programming time on or don't you or Jay want to support a variant with a full deck tracker for some reason? Or maybe something else entirely?

I have been down the road of arguing with "but everyone will cheat so therefore everyone should get this" in some other thread here. It did not turn out to be a great use of time that time. When the rule is "you can't use a chess computer to make moves for you," or whatever it is, well, believe it or not, many people will follow the rules. The intention is to let you make a list of people to block (and to friend); use it to avoid playing with people that you suspect of cheating.

I'm not sure this is "everyone will cheat so thereforee everyon should get this" here. It's "how can you reduce the likelyhood that people will cheat".
If there is not official PC, and there is no large change on goko's code, there will be an inofficial one. Because people want to play this variante. And once you have this variante out there, and can't control it, you have it out as either cheats in tournaments, or you are back to start arguing "everyone will cheat so thereefore everyone should get this".
If you would have an official counter, there's a lot less incentive to write one that you can use to cheat. And you could turn it on and off just as you wish.

It's not about adding more variety, it's about preventing that the inofficial variante becomes the one you might get forced into.

[michaeljb]

Back on topic:

Obviously server-related stuff was a big part of why the release was pushed back. Will extra time also be taken to ensure that the complete rules of Dominion are correctly implemented? Personally I believe that it would be well worth the wait for proper rules.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Will there ever be in-game ads in Goko's version of Dominion?

http://www.videogamesintelligence.com/monetization/conference-agenda.php

[Tombolo]

Will there be sales or specials?

[Insomniac]

Oh! Cool. Well, I'm wrong then! Base Cards, Dark Ages, and Guilds do give you something in the online version.

I'm still pretty sure that all previous things that were bought do not interact with the online version, though?

This is correct.

I must update this now, I have heard back, the redeem card entitles you to ONE CARD from one SET so you could per say use the dark ages card to get cultist if you didn't feel like buying that 1/3 of dark ages.

[Donald X.]

I must update this now, I have heard back, the redeem card entitles you to ONE CARD from one SET so you could per say use the dark ages card to get cultist if you didn't feel like buying that 1/3 of dark ages.

Heard back from who, specifically?

[Captain_Frisk]

I must update this now, I have heard back, the redeem card entitles you to ONE CARD from one SET so you could per say use the dark ages card to get cultist if you didn't feel like buying that 1/3 of dark ages.

Heard back from who, specifically?

Did someone break the cone of silence?  I would assume the answer is Trisha who seems to be the face of goko.  Insomniac, despite being total scum - doesnt seem to be the type of dude IMHO that would just post random stuff he heard from a dude at a party.

[Insomniac]

I must update this now, I have heard back, the redeem card entitles you to ONE CARD from one SET so you could per say use the dark ages card to get cultist if you didn't feel like buying that 1/3 of dark ages.

Heard back from who, specifically?

Did someone break the cone of silence?  I would assume the answer is Trisha who seems to be the face of goko.  Insomniac, despite being total scum - doesnt seem to be the type of dude IMHO that would just post random stuff he heard from a dude at a party.

I emailed help@goko.com and got this response from someone named Tanya

Edit: I too expected to hear from Trisha but got Tanya, I asked on the forums, emailed and posted the question here, the email was the one that was responded to.

[blueblimp]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?

[Insomniac]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?

It wasn't worded very clearly, but I THINK you only get a promo card from the set associated perhaps?

[Cave-o-sapien]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?

That wouldn't be any different than just creating your own deck in thr deck manager (assuming it works at launch) and luring people into games with you, just as happened on Isotropic.

[blueblimp]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?

That wouldn't be any different than just creating your own deck in thr deck manager (assuming it works at launch) and luring people into games with you, just as happened on Isotropic.

Well my understanding is that when you play "pro" style, it randomly selects one of you and randoms 10 cards out of that person's purchased cards (or maybe 10 cards that either of you own? I'm not sure). So by controlling which cards you have purchased, you influence the random selection.

[Captain_Frisk]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?

That wouldn't be any different than just creating your own deck in thr deck manager (assuming it works at launch) and luring people into games with you, just as happened on Isotropic.

Well my understanding is that when you play "pro" style, it randomly selects one of you and randoms 10 cards out of that person's purchased cards (or maybe 10 cards that either of you own? I'm not sure). So by controlling which cards you have purchased, you influence the random selection.

This is the rumor.  We don't have confirmation on the behavior.

[Donald X.]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?

It wasn't worded very clearly, but I THINK you only get a promo card from the set associated perhaps?

Well I haven't seen this wording you speak of, but at this point I have a reasonable guess as to what the card gets you, and I'm not going to make a guessing game out of it, but what you said didn't match what I'm expecting.

[Captain_Frisk]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?

I think promo cards are defined as the promos: black market, envoy, stash etc....  This is how they were organized in the beta - a single card in their own set... like Promo - Governor or something.

If you could cherry pick specific cards - then yes - just cherry picking KC / Goons / Masq would be obscenity.

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay, I'm confused now. Does that mean the Base Set card only unlocks one art of your choosing. lol Getting one card from a set sounds really silly, but this is Goko we are speaking of, so...

[Donald X.]

Okay, I'm confused now. Does that mean the Base Set card only unlocks one art of your choosing. lol Getting one card from a set sounds really silly, but this is Goko we are speaking of, so...

Currently, people at large do not know what the card gets you.

[GendoIkari]

I've read it all before, I just take issue with the premise.  I understand the argument completely and it is logically sound.  I still think it's silly.  Just chalk it down to a generational difference, what with me considering google an extension of my self instead of an unholy abomination the use of which will destroy all that it means to be human.

How about we make a variant where instead of shuffling your deck, you stack it? CC instantly becomes the best player in the world, and hey. Well, with lots of stuff, particularly lots of attacks, you get into this sort of guessing game, which hand am I going to get attacked in? Villages hit perfectly efficiently. Key cards like never miss reshuffles. Your money balances out just how you want. Chancellor turns into a very very strong card. All kinds of stuff happens for you, right? So this is clearly a variant, clearly pretty far away from dominion, and given how much people hate shuffle luck, probably one lots of people would like, too (well, I actually think this game would be degenerate at some point on a lot of boards, so not really, but....). So let that 'count' or whatever. or make it where attacks can be moated by estates, 'cause I hate attacks. Or a thousand other changes you can make. Now, it's not that these changes are all bad per se - indeed, there are definitely some things you can do to make the game a little better - it's just, which things do you do, and why do you do those, and not others? I mean, if there is huge consensus for deck counters, then boom, go for it. But there isn't this huge consensus, so you fall back on the rules as printed.

As for the google-is-an-extension-of-your-knowledge. You may be interested in reading stuff by Dr. Andy Clark, like Natural-Born Cyborgs. Fascinating stuff. Anyhow, while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, like for life in general, it's a bit different when you're looking at entertainment. Like, if I call my car an extension of myself, then really Usain Bolt isn't at all the fastest guy in the world, and nobody would care about him. But we like, for whatever reason, focusing on particular aspects, and limit ourselves to have competitions which focus on these, because we enjoy it more, it's more fun.

I think this would be worth it just to see the logs of CC's games.

I'm missing something... Who is CC?

[eHalcyon]

I'm missing something... Who is CC?

CelestialChameleon.  He has been rocking the puzzle forum with ridiculous 5-turn solutions to everything.

[Beyond Awesome]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?

That wouldn't be any different than just creating your own deck in thr deck manager (assuming it works at launch) and luring people into games with you, just as happened on Isotropic.

Well my understanding is that when you play "pro" style, it randomly selects one of you and randoms 10 cards out of that person's purchased cards (or maybe 10 cards that either of you own? I'm not sure). So by controlling which cards you have purchased, you influence the random selection.

As it is now, one player hosts the game. I hope that the host ends up being random at some point, but at this point, it looks like one player can host a game, but on pro, your card selection is still random.

[Insomniac]

Weird. Reasonable enough, but what if somebody uses promo cards to get just KC, Goons, Masquerade, and then plays with just those and base?

It wasn't worded very clearly, but I THINK you only get a promo card from the set associated perhaps?

Well I haven't seen this wording you speak of, but at this point I have a reasonable guess as to what the card gets you, and I'm not going to make a guessing game out of it, but what you said didn't match what I'm expecting.

Would you like to see the wording, I'm not sure I'm allowed to post it but I also don't see an NDA in the email

[Donald X.]

Would you like to see the wording, I'm not sure I'm allowed to post it but I also don't see an NDA in the email

Not so much, I just don't want to misinform people.

[Schneau]

It's a long shot, but is there any possibility of playing with unofficial cards on Goko? For example, it would be great to play with the Mini-Set Design Contest cards. Or, to be able to implement fan cards to play with friends. This seems like it would be near impossible without an extensive interface for defining card rules, so I'm guessing the answer is no. But it would be so awesome.

[Captain_Frisk]

It's a long shot, but is there any possibility of playing with unofficial cards on Goko? For example, it would be great to play with the Mini-Set Design Contest cards. Or, to be able to implement fan cards to play with friends. This seems like it would be near impossible without an extensive interface for defining card rules, so I'm guessing the answer is no. But it would be so awesome.

Based on DX's reply regarding Goko's straight inability to invent their own cards - this is really a question for DXV I believe.

[Voltaire]

Do you want us beta testers to continue beta testing? If so, what version should we be using? Where should we post feedback/bugs?*

*Yes, it's ridiculous I should be posting this here, but we've tried asking them every other way...

[Captain_Frisk]

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems

[Voltaire]

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems

From that article:

The elaborate printed expansions for the Dominion card game run between $30 and $45 (Ł19-Ł29) at retail -- for their digital equivalents Goko is asking around $15 (Ł9.50) apiece in their "Gokoins" currency, and special individual cards exclusive to Goko are planned as additional purchases.

O rly?

[Captain_Frisk]

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems

From that article:

The elaborate printed expansions for the Dominion card game run between $30 and $45 (Ł19-Ł29) at retail -- for their digital equivalents Goko is asking around $15 (Ł9.50) apiece in their "Gokoins" currency, and special individual cards exclusive to Goko are planned as additional purchases.

O rly?

I'm hoping that this is incorrect based on what DXV has stated this weekend.

[Cave-o-sapien]

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems

From that article:

The elaborate printed expansions for the Dominion card game run between $30 and $45 (Ł19-Ł29) at retail -- for their digital equivalents Goko is asking around $15 (Ł9.50) apiece in their "Gokoins" currency, and special individual cards exclusive to Goko are planned as additional purchases.

O rly?

I'm hoping that this is incorrect based on what DXV has stated this weekend.

At this point whose permission would they need to introduce their own promo cards?  Jay's?  Donald's?  No one's?  That's my question, I guess. 

[Donald X.]

It's a long shot, but is there any possibility of playing with unofficial cards on Goko? For example, it would be great to play with the Mini-Set Design Contest cards. Or, to be able to implement fan cards to play with friends. This seems like it would be near impossible without an extensive interface for defining card rules, so I'm guessing the answer is no. But it would be so awesome.

They were interested, and at the moment I am the one shooting this down. I don't want to have to spend time testing fan cards, or to have fan cards I haven't tested.

[Donald X.]

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems

I will have you know, we turned down the people who wanted to do everything with micropayments. You can ignore the hats and just buy expansions. They are in halves but the half size is still the size of the existing small expansions.

[Donald X.]

At this point whose permission would they need to introduce their own promo cards?  Jay's?  Donald's?  No one's?  That's my question, I guess.

I'm not interested in in-depth analysis of legalities. They aren't making any new cards unless I'm okay with it. I'm not. I might at some point agree to an online-only card that I designed, provided it was something that couldn't be done on a card irl.

[Cave-o-sapien]

At this point whose permission would they need to introduce their own promo cards?  Jay's?  Donald's?  No one's?  That's my question, I guess.

I'm not interested in in-depth analysis of legalities. They aren't making any new cards unless I'm okay with it. I'm not. I might at some point agree to an online-only card that I designed, provided it was something that couldn't be done on a card irl.

I read what you're saying and I read what Goko is saying and they seem to be at odds.  While I certainly consider you the more credible source and I want to believe you, I worry that there's a disconnect somewhere and that Goko fully intends on creating their own content.

[Donald X.]

I read what you're saying and I read what Goko is saying and they seem to be at odds.  While I certainly consider you the more credible source and I want to believe you, I worry that there's a disconnect somewhere and that Goko fully intends on creating their own content.

Worry all you want dude. I'm not worried.

[Cave-o-sapien]

I read what you're saying and I read what Goko is saying and they seem to be at odds.  While I certainly consider you the more credible source and I want to believe you, I worry that there's a disconnect somewhere and that Goko fully intends on creating their own content.

Worry all you want dude. I'm not worried.

Somehow this post is more reassuring.  Not sure why.

[Captain_Frisk]

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems

I will have you know, we turned down the people who wanted to do everything with micropayments. You can ignore the hats and just buy expansions. They are in halves but the half size is still the size of the existing small expansions.

Hey - I agree that you and Jay seem to be above board here - at least as it pertains to implementation  of dominion online and payment schemes and avoiding obviously scummy ways to monetize dominion.  You probably don't have control over the $7 for 70 gokoins to buy a 60 gokoin expansion thing, and maybe you don't care.

I asked the question because Zynga has a certain reputation.  My question rephrased is: Is goko the type of company that aspires to be like Zynga in the board game space (the implication of the article - regardless of the specifics of a dominion implementation) - or are they offended by the comparisons?

I might find Bobby Brown to be an excellent singer, but I'm unlikely to want to do anything that might support him financially - because I have moral opposition to other aspects of his life.

[GigaKnight]

Yet another thread turned into a 'hey I don't like how this guy thinks, how about I debate it inside a thread not made for this exact debate!'
Followed by the usual
'I really think the way I think is fine, I'll debate back!'
'Fool doesn't realize he is totally wrong! DEBATE DEBATE DEBAAAAAAAATE!!!'
'This fool is right, that fool is wrong! DEBATE!!!'
'Man you are both wrong, the fool that you think is wrong is right! You fools! DEBAAAAAAATE IT UP!!!'
And it goes on... and on.... and on.... and on... and on... until theory comes in and closes the thread/deletes the posts and stops the debate once and for all.

IMO, this is largely a failing of this format of forum / threading.  See Reddit for an example of a threading system that lets people get as off topic as they want without forcing everybody else to read it.

[GigaKnight]

Not sure that I agree this is "obviously not cheating". It's just cheating that everybody is party to.

I am totally fine with people playing variants that everyone has agreed to. I do not think it's reasonable to call such things "cheating." They are playing variants that everyone has agreed to.

@Varsinor: Okay to avoid miscommunication over issues that people feel strongly about, let's say instead you were talking about a variant in which, say, you can pay $0 to give another player a Curse, as your buy. I have chosen this as a random thing I don't like that I have heard of people doing.

It's one thing to provide some cards and be fine with people making up their own rules for them. It's another to specifically program a variant and offer it up. I do not wish to offer up variants I don't like. The "pay to hand out Curses" variant has no chance.

Dominion has a lot of variety to it. So providing variants isn't really that exciting. The campaigns do have variants. That variant sounded good for campaigns. A variant for the main game - such as the existing "add platinum/colony plz" variant - is going to have to sound really good to me.

Since you're discussing variants already:

I'm curious if you've created any variants in Dominion that you found particularly fun, but that didn't turn into an expansion or mechanic. Like, maybe creating per-player mini-kingdoms?  I'm just spit-balling here.  There are lots of possibilities; are there any you tried and liked, but couldn't fit into the game?

[Donald X.]

I'm curious if you've created any variants in Dominion that you found particularly fun, but that didn't turn into an expansion or mechanic. Like, maybe creating per-player mini-kingdoms?  I'm just spit-balling here.  There are lots of possibilities; are there any you tried and liked, but couldn't fit into the game?

We can draw a line between spin-offs and stuff for Dominion proper. For Dominion, nope, anything I came up with that I thought was worth doing has made it into an expansion. There is a tiny residue of okay cards that no-one will miss that didn't fit. Dominion is already different each game due to the starting ten cards; whatever you might want out of a variant, just get it there.

In the very early days, when there were no expansions, I considered doing events for an expansion. Every n turns, something happens. It just seemed like pointless complexity when new cards give you so much.

For spin-offs, I might do who knows what.

[Schneau]

It's a long shot, but is there any possibility of playing with unofficial cards on Goko? For example, it would be great to play with the Mini-Set Design Contest cards. Or, to be able to implement fan cards to play with friends. This seems like it would be near impossible without an extensive interface for defining card rules, so I'm guessing the answer is no. But it would be so awesome.

They were interested, and at the moment I am the one shooting this down. I don't want to have to spend time testing fan cards, or to have fan cards I haven't tested.

Good to know, thanks! I was talking about something more individualized to the user, such as a way for a user to create their own card to play with their friends, but not be able to use it in games that count for anything. But as I said, this would probably be needlessly complicated to create an interface that allows for the creation of fan cards without having someone at Goko in the loop. I guess my fan card playing will have to be in person!

[adf]

For spin-offs, I might do who knows what.

I'd suggest Castle Roller, but someone made that game already.

[Captain_Frisk]

It's a long shot, but is there any possibility of playing with unofficial cards on Goko? For example, it would be great to play with the Mini-Set Design Contest cards. Or, to be able to implement fan cards to play with friends. This seems like it would be near impossible without an extensive interface for defining card rules, so I'm guessing the answer is no. But it would be so awesome.

They were interested, and at the moment I am the one shooting this down. I don't want to have to spend time testing fan cards, or to have fan cards I haven't tested.

Good to know, thanks! I was talking about something more individualized to the user, such as a way for a user to create their own card to play with their friends, but not be able to use it in games that count for anything. But as I said, this would probably be needlessly complicated to create an interface that allows for the creation of fan cards without having someone at Goko in the loop. I guess my fan card playing will have to be in person!

If they don't fix the server side validation of client actions - then there are probably a decent range of things you might be able to do - with programming knowledge and distributing your hacks on both sides - For example, I bet (blueblimp correct me if I'm wrong here) - that you could replace chancellor with a card that just gave you +2 vp every time you played it.

I think you'd have a time with true victory cards.

[blueblimp]

It's a long shot, but is there any possibility of playing with unofficial cards on Goko? For example, it would be great to play with the Mini-Set Design Contest cards. Or, to be able to implement fan cards to play with friends. This seems like it would be near impossible without an extensive interface for defining card rules, so I'm guessing the answer is no. But it would be so awesome.

They were interested, and at the moment I am the one shooting this down. I don't want to have to spend time testing fan cards, or to have fan cards I haven't tested.

Good to know, thanks! I was talking about something more individualized to the user, such as a way for a user to create their own card to play with their friends, but not be able to use it in games that count for anything. But as I said, this would probably be needlessly complicated to create an interface that allows for the creation of fan cards without having someone at Goko in the loop. I guess my fan card playing will have to be in person!

If they don't fix the server side validation of client actions - then there are probably a decent range of things you might be able to do - with programming knowledge and distributing your hacks on both sides - For example, I bet (blueblimp correct me if I'm wrong here) - that you could replace chancellor with a card that just gave you +2 vp every time you played it.

I think you'd have a time with true victory cards.

My current understanding is that this isn't possible. It seems that all the rules are on the server. The only problem with validation is that the server doesn't make sure you're following the rules. But "give myself VP tokens" is not something that the client can do, as far as I can tell. It can move cards around (including playing cards), but that's about it, outside of special things cards let you do.

So, unfortunately the lack of server-side validation doesn't seem to allow anything really cool, just cheating.

[GigaKnight]

I'm curious if you've created any variants in Dominion that you found particularly fun, but that didn't turn into an expansion or mechanic. Like, maybe creating per-player mini-kingdoms?  I'm just spit-balling here.  There are lots of possibilities; are there any you tried and liked, but couldn't fit into the game?

We can draw a line between spin-offs and stuff for Dominion proper. For Dominion, nope, anything I came up with that I thought was worth doing has made it into an expansion. There is a tiny residue of okay cards that no-one will miss that didn't fit. Dominion is already different each game due to the starting ten cards; whatever you might want out of a variant, just get it there.

In the very early days, when there were no expansions, I considered doing events for an expansion. Every n turns, something happens. It just seemed like pointless complexity when new cards give you so much.

For spin-offs, I might do who knows what.

Cool, thanks.  Any chance of those omitted cards getting described in a Secret History?  Maybe sometime after Guilds?  Or are they not even interesting enough for that?

[cactus]

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems

I will have you know, we turned down the people who wanted to do everything with micropayments.

This is very laudable IMO.

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?

I'm not implying that you Donald would necessarily be privy to this and that it is really a question for Jay should he choose to address it. It is just the question that occurs to me when reading your comment.

Sorry if you feel this is rehashing topics that have already been done to death. I know you have already said you are tired of dealing with people who are unhappy with Goko and I can understand that. What is done is done and cannot be undone & people need to live with it or move on to a new hobby.

[Donald X.]

Cool, thanks.  Any chance of those omitted cards getting described in a Secret History?  Maybe sometime after Guilds?  Or are they not even interesting enough for that?

The chance is so high that it's already happened. Every secret history details cards that didn't make it. Dark Ages has an especially large outtakes section since I haven't talked about stuff that seemed like it might be rescued someday, and as of Dark Ages there was not much stuff left in that category.

[Donald X.]

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?

I don't know what companies exactly made pitches. The basis for interest level in pitches was, you know, reasonable stuff. There is really nothing to comment on there.

[blueblimp]

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?

There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:

I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.

So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.

[GigaKnight]

Dark Ages has an especially large outtakes section since I haven't talked about stuff that seemed like it might be rescued someday, and as of Dark Ages there was not much stuff left in that category.

That's what I was looking for.  Awesome.  I'm excited to read the next one whenever you post it.  Thanks!

[Cave-o-sapien]

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?

There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:

I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.

So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.

Goko isn't exactly excelling at #1.

[theory]

What do you mean?  It seems like it is working equally well on all platforms.

[monteslu]

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?

There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:

I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.

So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.

Goko isn't exactly excelling at #1.

The HTML5 part of Goko's implementation is the rendering to Canvas.  That part they're doing fine.  It's the security stuff, and the server side scaling that needs some work.

[blueblimp]

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?

There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:

I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.

So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.

Goko isn't exactly excelling at #1.

The HTML5 part of Goko's implementation is the rendering to Canvas.  That part they're doing fine.  It's the security stuff, and the server side scaling that needs some work.

The performance on an iPad isn't adequate currently.

[noey21]

Will there ever be a pay to play option?  Like X per month or year.  I know people have said it but I prefer that (getting all cards) then always feeling like I am playing someone that only knows certain cards and has mastered them  And YES I have bought ALL physical copies (another reason I don't really wANT TO buy them again).

I moved over seas and would love to play with my parents (they introduced me and other friends but I know they aren't going to want to buy it all again)....Still sad about iso........plus it is weird it still seems all speculation and that scares me....I would think more would be know....

But thanks to everyone for everything!

[werothegreat]

Will there ever be a pay to play option?  Like X per month or year.  I know people have said it but I prefer that (getting all cards) then always feeling like I am playing someone that only knows certain cards and has mastered them  And YES I have bought ALL physical copies (another reason I don't really wANT TO buy them again).

I moved over seas and would love to play with my parents (they introduced me and other friends but I know they aren't going to want to buy it all again)....Still sad about iso........plus it is weird it still seems all speculation and that scares me....I would think more would be know....

But thanks to everyone for everything!

How long do you intend to play Dominion online?  Let's say a monthly fee would be $10.  Reasonable, no?  But if you're intending on playing Dominion online for 9 months or more, then it would have been cheaper to just buy 2 expansions a month.

This reminds me of an idea Terry Pratchett came upon - the rich stay rich because they can afford to spend less.

[DStu]

How long do you intend to play Dominion online?  Let's say a monthly fee would be $10.  Reasonable, no?  But if you're intending on playing Dominion online for 9 months or more, then it would have been cheaper to just buy 2 expansions a month.

After the alternative is the price of two AAA-titles, $10/month does not sound that off probably, but after all I could play MMORPGs for this.

[polonkus]

Will there ever be a pay to play option?  Like X per month or year.  I know people have said it but I prefer that (getting all cards) then always feeling like I am playing someone that only knows certain cards and has mastered them  And YES I have bought ALL physical copies (another reason I don't really wANT TO buy them again).

I moved over seas and would love to play with my parents (they introduced me and other friends but I know they aren't going to want to buy it all again)....Still sad about iso........plus it is weird it still seems all speculation and that scares me....I would think more would be know....

But thanks to everyone for everything!

How long do you intend to play Dominion online?  Let's say a monthly fee would be $10.  Reasonable, no?  But if you're intending on playing Dominion online for 9 months or more, then it would have been cheaper to just buy 2 expansions a month.

This reminds me of an idea Terry Pratchett came upon - the rich stay rich because they can afford to spend less.

Alternatively, if you think Goko is gonna be bankrupt in less than 9 months, you'd prefer to pay a monthly fee.

[Kirian]

How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

Example: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/20/goko-launch-problems

Five years, huh?  Well let's hope they don't spend the first three actually making it playable.

[werothegreat]

On a side-note - are we still getting this Q 'n A tomorrow?

[bedlam]

Will there ever be a pay to play option?  Like X per month or year.  I know people have said it but I prefer that (getting all cards) then always feeling like I am playing someone that only knows certain cards and has mastered them  And YES I have bought ALL physical copies (another reason I don't really wANT TO buy them again).

I moved over seas and would love to play with my parents (they introduced me and other friends but I know they aren't going to want to buy it all again)....Still sad about iso........plus it is weird it still seems all speculation and that scares me....I would think more would be know....

But thanks to everyone for everything!

How long do you intend to play Dominion online?  Let's say a monthly fee would be $10.  Reasonable, no?  But if you're intending on playing Dominion online for 9 months or more, then it would have been cheaper to just buy 2 expansions a month.

I would hope that the pay-to-play option would apply to all Goko games, not just Dominion. I might pay $10 per month to play everything that that they are going to offer eventually.

[theory]

On a side-note - are we still getting this Q 'n A tomorrow?

Yep.  I'm talking about it with Trisha right now.

[Tombolo]

[blueblimp]

By the way, since some of these questions are fairly specific or technical, it would be nice to know who is writing the answer, to put more of a human face on the company (instead of just portraying everything as a response from the company itself).

[theory]

What I think will happen is that various Goko people will answer these questions in a Google+ Hangout, which will then be posted on YouTube with maybe some kind of text transcription.  The Hangout would also allow more questions to be submitted via forum on a live basis. 

For publicity's sake I suggested that she should schedule the Hangout on Thursday, to allow maximum notice to people who want to watch it.  But this is something up to her schedule. 

[monteslu]

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?

There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:

I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.

So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.

Goko isn't exactly excelling at #1.

The HTML5 part of Goko's implementation is the rendering to Canvas.  That part they're doing fine.  It's the security stuff, and the server side scaling that needs some work.

The performance on an iPad isn't adequate currently.

Strange. Seems ok on my Nexus 7.  Which iPad?

[blueblimp]

It sets me wondering whether companies that have produced critically acclaimed IOS implementations that have done justice to their "source material" (such as Ticket to Ride and Ascension) were also considered and rejected - and if they were rejected, on what basis?

There was a little bit about this in ednever's interview with Jay:

I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:

1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)

2- DominionSocal. Imagine if you played Dominion, but if you did well, or payed extra money you could get to draw an extra card every few turns. Or the ability to see your opponents hand. Or decide your starting hand. Or get a free silver in your deck. Or many more things. All you have to do is pay a small fee... (this is the Zynga Farmville/CityVille/etc model). They told him, "This is how you make money with games online."  He said this is not how he was going to make money with Dominion - because it wouldn't be Dominion anymore.

So, the iOS-specific developers would likely fail at #1.

Goko isn't exactly excelling at #1.

The HTML5 part of Goko's implementation is the rendering to Canvas.  That part they're doing fine.  It's the security stuff, and the server side scaling that needs some work.

The performance on an iPad isn't adequate currently.

Strange. Seems ok on my Nexus 7.  Which iPad?

iPad 3. I tried it again though and it's not as bad as I remember. The animations sometimes stutter a bit, but it's usable.

Edit: Never mind, it gets significantly laggier as the game progresses, to the point that by the end of a single game, it's really bad.

[Captain_Frisk]

iPad 3. I tried it again though and it's not as bad as I remember. The animations sometimes stutter a bit, but it's usable.

Edit: Never mind, it gets significantly laggier as the game progresses, to the point that by the end of a single game, it's really bad.

Sounds like that memory leak thing everyone else is complaining of. 

[blueblimp]

iPad 3. I tried it again though and it's not as bad as I remember. The animations sometimes stutter a bit, but it's usable.

Edit: Never mind, it gets significantly laggier as the game progresses, to the point that by the end of a single game, it's really bad.

Sounds like that memory leak thing everyone else is complaining of.

Yeah, which could explain why it would play better on a Nexus 7, because I think that has Chrome, right? And on a desktop computer, Goko runs much in Chrome than in Safari.

[DStu]

iPad 3. I tried it again though and it's not as bad as I remember. The animations sometimes stutter a bit, but it's usable.

Edit: Never mind, it gets significantly laggier as the game progresses, to the point that by the end of a single game, it's really bad.

Sounds like that memory leak thing everyone else is complaining of.

Yeah, which could explain why it would play better on a Nexus 7, because I think that has Chrome, right? And on a desktop computer, Goko runs much in Chrome than in Safari.

isn't there a chrome for the ipdad?

[blueblimp]

iPad 3. I tried it again though and it's not as bad as I remember. The animations sometimes stutter a bit, but it's usable.

Edit: Never mind, it gets significantly laggier as the game progresses, to the point that by the end of a single game, it's really bad.

Sounds like that memory leak thing everyone else is complaining of.

Yeah, which could explain why it would play better on a Nexus 7, because I think that has Chrome, right? And on a desktop computer, Goko runs much in Chrome than in Safari.

isn't there a chrome for the ipdad?

IIRC it is not the same thing as "real" Chrome, but instead just a wrapper around Apple's Webkit, which is the same thing Safari uses. The reason being that Apple doesn't allow apps to run their own Javascript interpreters (for security reasons I think).

[noey21]

How long do you intend to play Dominion online?  Let's say a monthly fee would be $10.  Reasonable, no?  But if you're intending on playing Dominion online for 9 months or more, then it would have been cheaper to just buy 2 expansions a month.

After the alternative is the price of two AAA-titles, $10/month does not sound that off probably, but after all I could play MMORPGs for this.

Money isn't the issue...it is if this sucks I would rather only be 20 or 30 in.  Or as stated later if they fold.  So maybe try it out for 10......if I don't like it then wait some months.  I believe in that quote........it's a nice one.......I am enjoying retirement so i can understand it

[Wizard of Woz]

Details on the where and when for the Q and A?

[Tombolo]

Details on the where and when for the Q and A?

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4273.0

[1wheel]

Reading this http://forums.pockettactics.com/discussion/comment/1985/#Comment_1985 makes me feel pretty pessimistic about the future of board games online. Is there any reason why I shouldn't be discouraged? I've had a great time on genie and isotropic over the last few years; but they serve very niche markets which probably can't support "separate VPs for business development, marketing, developer relations, *and* monetization."

[blueblimp]

Reading this http://forums.pockettactics.com/discussion/comment/1985/#Comment_1985 makes me feel pretty pessimistic about the future of board games online. Is there any reason why I shouldn't be discouraged? I've had a great time on genie and isotropic over the last few years; but they serve very niche markets which probably can't support "separate VPs for business development, marketing, developer relations, *and* monetization."

Not really +1'ing this as a question exactly, but the linked post is really good.

Edit: The follow-up post is also worth a read: http://forums.pockettactics.com/discussion/comment/1991/#Comment_1991.

[Slacker]

What are some of the other 150 games you've signed up to develop?

[Captain_Frisk]

Do you have any comment on the pricing information that was gleaned during your public launch?  Many gamers (myself included) seem to find that pricing to be on the high end when compared to other established digital board game implementations of similar complexity (Ascension, Thunderstone)

[Captain_Frisk]

There's been a bunch of discussion on the ipbhost forum regarding bots apparently resigning.  Are they truly programmed to quit when they feel their position is unwinnable, or is this a bug that should be reported?

[Kirian]

Who is your market?

Current indications are that you're not targeting the iOS market, who overwhelmingly want an offline implementation.  While you're courting the hardcore competitive market, many of us are dissatisfied with what we've seen so far and don't think it's useful for competitive play.  And the casual gamer who's willing to play online-only is unlikely to pay $12 for an expansion pack--when compared with the prices offered by Playdek, etc.

Your only actual market segment, at launch, appears to be hardcore competitive players who are willing to play with a flawed implementation while they hope it gets better, casual gamers who will likely only play with the base set.  I'll admit I'm not a marketing guru, but this seems like it won't actually sustain server costs for very long.

How soon do you plan to play to those other markets, if at all?

[greatexpectations]

Current Top Questions For FunSockets - Final Edit
(ranked by upvotes at time of post, min. 2 upvotes, joke answers and responses removed, *'s combine votes from repeated posts)

+15 - Will you be implementing the ability to rejoin a game in the event of a disconnection?

+14 - There have been reports of many security holes in your app. // Even if they are fixed, how can I be confident that other flaws aren't compromising my user information?

+13* - Do you plan to implement a point counter yourselves? What is your policy regarding 3rd-party extensions (including but not limited to point counters)? Are custom AI's on the horizon? If so, how will they work? (poster comment: people were more interested in the counter/extension part than the AI part.)

+8* - How are ratings calculated?

+7* - Would it be possible to get a relative timetable of when the expansions will be released on Goko?

+7 - Do you want us beta testers to continue beta testing? If so, what version should we be using? Where should we post feedback/bugs?

+7 - Do you have any comment on the pricing information that was gleaned during your public launch?  Many gamers (myself included) seem to find that pricing to be on the high end when compared to other established digital board game implementations.

+5 - How many people work on funsockets?

+4 - Any plans of allowing players to tweak how the cards are laid out on screen?

+4 - I'm also interested in the familiarity the developers had with Dominion before starting their work. // Given that Goko is simultaneously developing at least 4 games ...how much attention is it really getting?  Are the "best guys" on it?  Will updates be frequent?

+4 - Will there be a package deal to purchase all of the current and coming expansions in one go?

+4 - Are any translations (especially into German) planned in the near future? Will you publish a roadmap of upcoming features?

+4 - How do you feel about comparisons between your company and Zynga in the mainstream press?

+3 - Will automatch be implemented?  Can I filter opponents based on rating?

+3 - What are some of the other 150 games you've signed up to develop?

+2 - Will there be any deal for getting price-cuts by buying physical copies of existing/future expansions?

+2 - What kind of achievements will there be? Can you tell us more about this campaign mode? Any possibility of a fast, lightweight mod of play for player that do not want fancy graphics?

+2 - What is the peak number of unique users who are attempting to access the servers.  How many did you performance test for?

+2 - Then I hereby clamor at the top of my lungs not only for a simple point counter, but also for an official full deck counter at least as extensive as Dr Held's Chrome extension.

+2 - How will we be able to get the Base Cards with new art? Will we have to pay for it? Unlock it?

+2 - How can I download a batch of play logs for analysis?

+2 - There's been a bunch of discussion on the ipbhost forum regarding bots apparently resigning.  Are they truly programmed to quit when they feel their position is unwinnable, or is this a bug that should be reported?

[pinkymadigan]

No one asked how far off the radar is offline play yet?

EDIT: OUCH.

[greatexpectations]

hey theory/trisha -

any chance we could set up another one of these Q/A sessions? it doesn't even have to be video, but the chance to ask some more questions is probably something a lot of folks here would like.

edit: i would be willing to set up a new thread and organize questions again. i would just go ahead and do it right now but confirmation that they might answer our questions would probably generate more interest and lead to better discussion.