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Author Topic: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!  (Read 34359 times)

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rinkworks

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Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« on: August 13, 2012, 10:13:08 am »
+2

Submission Rules

* Submit no more than one card per person per challenge.  You do not need to submit for all challenges if you don't want to, but of course you can't win if you don't compete.
* Submit your cards to me via this forum's messaging system.  Submissions made after each week's deadline cannot be accepted.
* Each card you submit must have a name, a cost, a list of types, and the exact wording that should appear on the card.  Also include a brief description of any special design considerations (e.g., Stash having a unique back), but do NOT include any other information, such as strategic commentary or examples about it would play.
* Although you must submit names for each of your cards, the names will not be listed on the voting ballots, so make sure your card's appeal does not depend on your choice of name.
* I will accept revisions to your contest entries provided they are submitted to me before the deadline.  If you submit a revision to an entry you have previously submitted to me, resubmit your revised card(s) in their entirety.  That is, don't tell me "Oh, can you make that +2 Cards say +3 Cards instead?"  Just resubmit the full card.
* Only submit cards that are your own design.
* You may submit cards that have been previously posted here in this forum, including those that have been refined by the community as a whole, provided you can still claim that the central conceit of the card -- and the majority of its final version -- is yours.  This applies to cards previously posted, however -- if your submissions aren't already posted on his board, please refrain from doing so until after the results have been announced.
* A single card might conceivably qualify for multiple challenges within this series.  However, you may not submit the same card for more than one concurrent challenge.  That is, if you have submitted a card to one challenge, you may not submit it to another challenge until the results of that first challenge have been announced.
* Do not disclose your submissions publicly, either in this thread or elsewhere

--

The deadline for this week's challenges is Monday, August 20, at 10am EDT.

--

Challenge #11 - Dual-Type Card

Objective: Create a dual-type card.  The complete type specification must be one of the following:

* Action-Victory
* Action-Victory-Reaction
* Action-Attack-Victory
* Action-Duration-Victory
* Treasure-Victory
* Treasure-Reaction
* Victory-Reaction

No other type combinations are eligible.

Official Examples: Great Hall, Nobles, Harem, Island, Tunnel, Fool's Gold.

Official Non-Examples: Everything else.

--

The Ballot
The Results
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 11:12:43 am by rinkworks »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2012, 10:18:52 am »
+1

No love for the ol' action-attack-reaction?

jonts26

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 10:48:36 am »
0

No love for the ol' action-attack-reaction?

That's more than a dual type.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2012, 10:56:23 am »
0

So is action-victory-reaction.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2012, 10:57:09 am »
0

No love for the ol' action-attack-reaction?

That's more than a dual type.
Action-Attack-Victory is just as much so.....

jonts26

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2012, 10:57:29 am »
+1

That's what I get for not reading the post.
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Grujah

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2012, 10:58:57 am »
0

Dual-colored.
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Davio

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 11:01:30 am »
+1

To me Attack and Duration are just subtypes as they appear only on Actions.

The main types I know of are:
Action
Treasure
Victory
Reaction
Curse

(+ whatever is added by Dark Ages)
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2012, 11:14:24 am »
0

Wow, are there really that few official examples? x.x
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2012, 11:17:22 am »
0

Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.
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yuma

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 11:43:27 am »
+2

I can already say that I personally will not vote for any durations. In the same way I don't like a potion card being included. Durations are seaside and aren't anywhere else so I think they are not fit for here. 
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 02:10:07 pm »
0

Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.

/me submits Two of All Trades

Just kidding.

The first draft I came up with could get triple-digit points in 12 or so turns, and increasing the price didn't really fix the problem. Kinda glad I thought about it some more :P
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pst

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2012, 03:03:22 pm »
0

To me Attack and Duration are just subtypes as they appear only on Actions.

I see no real reason why a Treasure-Duration wouldn't be possible as well, since Treasure cards also are in play.
It could be something simple as

Down payment
$1
At the start of your next turn: +$2
Treasure - Duration

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razorborne

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2012, 03:20:25 pm »
0

why have a complete list of available options, especially when that list is itself incomplete? why not just say it has to be at least two of Action/Reaction, Treasure, and Victory and be done with it? (I suppose you could do curse but that's just weird) if someone can make, say, Action-Treasure work, why not let them?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 10:24:16 am »
+1

why have a complete list of available options, especially when that list is itself incomplete? why not just say it has to be at least two of Action/Reaction, Treasure, and Victory and be done with it? (I suppose you could do curse but that's just weird) if someone can make, say, Action-Treasure work, why not let them?

Because, with Action-Treasure, you need to introduce way too many rules and clarifications with how to actually play it. An Action card is something you play during the Action phase. A Treasure card is something you play during the Buy phase. You would need to write new rules to talk about when you can play an Action-Treasure card. In addition, you would need to add clarifications about how they interact with Peddler, Conspirator, Bank, etc. It could be done, theoretically in Dark Ages or Guilds, but best to leave that big of a change up to Donald.
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gman314

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2012, 11:44:05 am »
0

Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.

Treasure - Action would be a nightmare to balance. If you play it for the Action, you can't play it as a Treasure, but if you want the Treasure, you can't use the Action. (Unless, of course, you make some strange rule allowing it to be played twice on a turn, but that totally changes the rules.) So, the Action and the Treasure portions have to be fairly balanced in value.
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gman314

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2012, 11:45:22 am »
0

I would really like to see someone submit the following card:

Wife
$3 Victory - Treasure

Worth $1
1VP
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2012, 11:52:21 am »
0

Harlot was just posted with those stats in Auto-Destruct Sequence's Unnamed Expansion with images as "Harlot". The power has since been increased.
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gman314

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2012, 11:56:58 am »
0

I think that lots of people have had the same idea. Basically to make a weaker version of Harem. On the other side of Harem, how about

Card Name
$9 Victory - Treasure
Worth $3
3VP
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2012, 12:41:23 pm »
+1

why have a complete list of available options, especially when that list is itself incomplete? why not just say it has to be at least two of Action/Reaction, Treasure, and Victory and be done with it? (I suppose you could do curse but that's just weird) if someone can make, say, Action-Treasure work, why not let them?

Because, with Action-Treasure, you need to introduce way too many rules and clarifications with how to actually play it. An Action card is something you play during the Action phase. A Treasure card is something you play during the Buy phase. You would need to write new rules to talk about when you can play an Action-Treasure card. In addition, you would need to add clarifications about how they interact with Peddler, Conspirator, Bank, etc. It could be done, theoretically in Dark Ages or Guilds, but best to leave that big of a change up to Donald.

Meh, I don't think it's that hard.  Either the card is played as an Action, in which case it's treated as an Action for all purposes, or it's played as a Treasure, in which case it's treated as a Treasure for all purposes.  There, I just wrote the really complicated rules.

Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.

Treasure - Action would be a nightmare to balance. If you play it for the Action, you can't play it as a Treasure, but if you want the Treasure, you can't use the Action. (Unless, of course, you make some strange rule allowing it to be played twice on a turn, but that totally changes the rules.) So, the Action and the Treasure portions have to be fairly balanced in value.

Well, this I agree with -- but that's part of the challenge of designing any card.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2012, 12:41:45 pm »
0

Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.

Treasure - Action would be a nightmare to balance. If you play it for the Action, you can't play it as a Treasure, but if you want the Treasure, you can't use the Action. (Unless, of course, you make some strange rule allowing it to be played twice on a turn, but that totally changes the rules.) So, the Action and the Treasure portions have to be fairly balanced in value.

I like that idea - making the tough decision of when to play the card. If you want to work with the idea of choice you could make a Treasure/Reaction.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2012, 12:42:07 pm »
+4

I think that lots of people have had the same idea. Basically to make a weaker version of Harem. On the other side of Harem, how about

Your Mother
$9 Victory - Treasure
Worth $3
3VP

FTFY
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AJD

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2012, 03:33:17 pm »
+2

Meh, I don't think it's that hard.  Either the card is played as an Action, in which case it's treated as an Action for all purposes, or it's played as a Treasure, in which case it's treated as a Treasure for all purposes.  There, I just wrote the really complicated rules.

But surely it should be treated as both an Action and a Treasure for all purposes at all times, in line with the general rules of the game. So e.g., if you play it as an Action, it would still feed Bank, and if you play it as a Treasure it would still cut the price of Peddler.

Note also that "played as an Action" and "played as a Treasure" aren't actually defined in the rules, though it's obvious that we mean "played when the rules permit you to play Actions" and "played when the rules permit you to play Treasures", since there are no times when the rules permit both. And we could almost say "during your action phase" and "during your buy phase", if not for Black Market. In fact, I bet that if there were an Action-Treasure that had different effects whether it was played as an action or as a treasure, what the card would say is "if it is your action phase" and "if it is your buy phase", and the interaction with BM would just be screwy.

It's not necessary for an Action-Treasure to have different effects depending on whether it's played as an action or a treasure, though. Consider this:

Quicksilver
Action-Treasure $5
+1 action
+$2

Of course, it's only better than Silver on boards with Minion, Tactician, Conspirator, Peddler, Black Market, and maybe a few other things.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2012, 04:05:25 pm »
+5

So I can't enter this, then?

Escalator Link
$9
Action-Treasure

If played as an Action: +2 Coin, +1 VP
If played as a Treasure: Worth 1 Coin for every treasure you have in play, including this.

Fair enough. I might enter something else.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2012, 10:25:29 pm »
+4

So I can't enter this, then?

Escalator Link
$9
Action-Treasure

If played as an Action: +2 Coin, +1 VP
If played as a Treasure: Worth 1 Coin for every treasure you have in play, including this.

Fair enough. I might enter something else.

Very clever joke

For those who don't get it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank-Monument_station
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 05:34:28 am by NoMoreFun »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2012, 10:30:14 pm »
0

So I can't enter this, then?

Escalator Link
$9
Action-Treasure

If played as an Action: +2 Coin, +1 VP
If played as a Treasure: Worth 1 Coin for every treasure you have in play, including this.

Fair enough. I might enter something else.

Very clever joke

For those who don't get it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank-Monument_station

FTFY.  If you want to spoiler a link, you have to add a color=black tag.

Didn't get the joke.  Explanation earns a +1.  Joke too. :)
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Archetype

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2012, 10:42:38 pm »
0

If there is a card with the reaction "whenever an opponent buys a card, reveal this from your hand. Gain a copy of the bought card"

Can it be revealed multiple times for the same bought card? Or do you reveal it, gain a copy, opponent gains the bought card?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2012, 10:49:42 pm »
+1

If there is a card with the reaction "whenever an opponent buys a card, reveal this from your hand. Gain a copy of the bought card"

Can it be revealed multiple times for the same bought card? Or do you reveal it, gain a copy, opponent gains the bought card?

Well first, you'd have to phrase it as "you may reveal this from your hand."  And yeah, they could reveal it multiple times unless you have them set the card aside or discard it or something.
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Archetype

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2012, 11:23:22 pm »
0

Thought so, thanks!

By the way, this is not my card idea. Its a similiar idea though.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2012, 03:24:02 pm »
+1

Here is the ballot for Challenge #11!  Votes are due in a week.

--

Voting Rules:

Each person may cast votes as follows:  For each Challenge, you may fill your ballot out in one of two ways:

(1) Award 3 points to one entry.  Award 1 point to any number of other entries.
(2) Award 2 points to each of two entries.  Award 1 point to any number of other entries.

Submit your votes via PM to me by Monday, August 27, 2012, 10am EDT in the following format:

Quote
Challenge 1

3 CardName
1 AnotherCardName
1 StillAnotherCardName
1 AnotherCardNameGoesHereToo

Challenge 2

2 CardName
2 AnotherCardName
1 StillAnotherCardName

Please use the above format!  One card per line, with the number of votes given before it, and no extra punctuation or anything.  This will make it easy for me to copy-and-paste your votes into the format my vote-counting script needs it to be in.

Do not submit votes for your own cards.  (If you do, my script will catch you anyway.)

By submitting vote(s) for a challenge, you will automatically earn 1 point for your entry in that challenge.  This is to incentivize contestants to submit votes.  (My script does this automatically, so don't worry that I'll forget to do this.)

Note that the supplied card names are for discussion/identification only -- they are not the card names that were submitted to me.  The proper card names will be revealed when the results are announced.  Whenever card text says "[This Card]" it means the submitted text says the card's own name there.

Inclusion on the ballot means that the card was deemed eligible for the contest.  You therefore do not need to consider eligibility when voting.  In some cases, this may mean a pretty loose interpretation of the eligibility requirements.  I tried to be fair but also forgiving when a submission came in that twisted the rules in a way I hadn't foreseen.

As a voter, you may use whatever criteria you wish in determining what your votes will be.  Be as forgiving or particular as you like concerning conformance to standard Dominion terminology.   For all winning cards, there will be a chance to tweak the wording as a community, if necessary, before they are canonized.

--

Sturges
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 2 VP if you have the most Copper cards in your deck compared to other players (a tie for most would qualify as well).
--
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Copper. You may discard this card to put the Copper into your hand.


Allen
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.


Schrader
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP for every 5 Treasure cards in your deck.
---
You may not buy this card if you have any Treasure cards in play.
--
Setup: You may start with three of these in your deck instead of three of your starting Coppers.  If anyone does, adjust the kingdom pile so it contains 8 or 12 [This Card]s, based on the number of players.

(Edit: This card was incorrected included on the ballot and should not receive votes.  It was an earlier submission from an author who submitted a replacement card subsequently; the replacement card also appears on this ballot.)


Goldman
$4 - Action-Duration
+$4
At the start of your next turn, discard a card.



Trumbo
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 1 VP plus an additional 1 VP for each Randomizer card you have.
--
Whenever a supply pile becomes empty, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put that pile's randomizer card on top of that pile (if that card is still outside the game).
--
(Rule clarifications: This card counts the number of Randomizer cards that you have in your deck. Randomizer cards are not normally used in play, but using this card's Reaction ability can put them in the supply. A Randomizer card in the supply can be gained or bought just like any other card in the supply.)


Mankiewicz
$5 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), gain a [Support Card], putting it in your hand.
Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Buy.
--
This card is worth 1 VP for each [Support Card] in your deck.
Setup: Add [Support Card] to the supply.
.
.
[Support Card]
$4* - Action
+1 Action
+$1
If you have 3 or more [Support Card]s in play (counting this), +1 VP.
--
Setup: Do not include this in the Randomizer deck. Only add it to the supply if [This Card] is in the Kingdom.
--
(Rule clarifications: [Support Card] cannot be bought or gained except by playing a [This Card].)


Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.


Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.


Towne
$4 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2
Worth 1 VP
--
When this card is in play, if possible you must use all of your buys.


Hecht
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)


Puzo
$4 - Victory-Reaction
2 VP
--
When another player trashes a card, you may set this aside from your hand.  If you do, he gains a Curse.  At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand.


Seaton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
Trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
When another player plays a [This Card], you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Gain a copy of one of the revealed Treasures, putting it into your hand, then discard the revealed cards.
--
(Rules clarification: you may trash a [This Card] to itself, and must if you have no other Treasures in play)


Kaufman
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
1 VP


Benton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack; return [This Card] to the supply and gain a Silver, putting it in your hand.


Diamond
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.


Lehman
$3 - Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1VP.  If the game ends while this is in play, worth 8 VP instead.
--
Now: +1 Buy.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.


Brackett
$7 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$3
You may discard a Copper. If you don't, gain a Copper, putting it on your deck.
--
Worth 2 VP


Kasdan
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards into your hand and put the rest back on top in any order.
--
When another player plays an Attack you may discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Discard any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards, then put one into your hand and the rest back on top in any order.


Hughes
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.


Zaillian
$6 - Action-Duration-Victory
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP


Monahan
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
If you have unused Actions (not Action cards), this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $2.
--
When you play an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and +1 Action.
--
(Rules clarifications: To use the Reaction effect of this card, you must discard it after playing an Action card but before resolving the effects on that Action card, in much the same way that one reveals Reactions to the Attack cards of other players prior to them resolving the effects of the Attack card.)


Gaghan
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Gain a [This Card].
--
Worth 2 VP


Sorkin
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $3
If an opponent plays an Attack, reveal [This Card] from your hand.  Gain a copy of the Attack card and trash [This Card] from your hand.


Robinson
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+2 Cards
Opponents with 4 or more cards in hand discard a card.  If any Victory or $0-cost cards were discarded, gain a token on the [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two tokens (rounded down) on the [This Card] mat at the end of the game.


Pierson
$6 - Action-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Pick one: Gain a Silver in hand; or Gain a Gold and a Copper.


Cody
$5 - Action-Victory
Reveal your hand.  +1 Action for each differently named Victory card in play and in your hand, including this one.
--
Worth 1 VP for each differently named Action card that your deck contains two copies of, including this one.
--
(Rules clarification:  For instance, if your final deck contains 5 copies of [This Card], 2 Markets, 1 Menagerie, and no other actions, each [This Card] is worth 2 VP: 1 each for the pair of Markets and more than two copies of [This Card], but nothing for the single Menagerie.)


Nugent
$5 - Treasure/Reaction
Worth $3
-$1 for each card remaining in your hand when this card is played, but not less than 0.
+1 Buy
--
If one of the other players has no cards in his hand at any point except the clean-up phase of their turn, you may trash this card, gaining a Duchy on top of your deck.


Goyer
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $1
--
When you discard this from play, you may trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
Worth 1 VP for every $2 (rounded down) in the cost of the Treasure card you have the most copies of in your deck (the most expensive card if there is a tie).


Mamet
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. Discard it or put it back.
--
When another player plays an Attack card you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order. If you discarded any cards this way, either discard or trash this.


Crowe
$4 - Action-Victory
Trash two cards.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash (round down).


Foote
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $0
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand, +$1; or trash this card immediately, +$2.
--
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, trash the discarded card.


Darabont
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a card, you may set aside the gained card if this card is in play or you reveal this from your hand.  Return the set aside card to your deck at the end of the game.


Howard
$4 - Action-Victory
Either trash up to 2 cards from your hand or move a card from the trash to your [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 cards on your [This Card] mat.


Greene
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Choose one: +$1 or +1 Buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, in your buy phase play this twice.
--
(Rules clarification: If you set this aside in your buy phase, you immediately play it twice.)


Odets
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
+1 Buy
+$1
--
Whenever you buy a card, you may reveal and discard this card from your hand. If you do, every other player gains a copy of the bought card instead of you.


McQuarrie
$3 - Action-Victory
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  You may discard up to one card.  Put the rest back in any order.
+2 Cards
--
If a Victory supply pile other than Provinces or Colonies is empty, this is worth 2 VP.  Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.


Ephron
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2 and 1 VP
--
When you gain or play this, look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  You may discard any number of them.  Put the rest on top of the deck in any order.


Sherwood
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than the Attack card that is not a [This Card], putting it into your hand.


Brooks
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.


Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)


Helgeland
$5 - Victory-Reaction
1 VP
--
Whenever a player buys a non-victory card, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.


Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 09:25:55 am by rinkworks »
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Archetype

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2012, 04:04:43 pm »
0

I'll have to write my thoughts on each one later, but I just wanted to say, there are a lot of cool cards here!
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2012, 04:05:15 pm »
0

Update:  Fixed a wording error (mine, not the submitter's) in Mankiewicz.
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2012, 05:05:12 pm »
+1

How is Goldman in here? It is only Action-Duration, which is not one of the accepted type combos.
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2012, 05:06:46 pm »
0

Aargh I had thoughts typed up on almost half of them, and then lost the post. Note to self: ctrl-R is not 'redo'.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2012, 05:16:46 pm »
0

Commentary:

Sturges
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 2 VP if you have the most Copper cards in your deck compared to other players (a tie for most would qualify as well).
--
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Copper. You may discard this card to put the Copper into your hand.

I dislike that this doesn't give you VP unless you win the Copper race. You can put all this effort into buying the card and find that its worth nothing come game's end. I'd have given it a base VP and just award the winner with extra VP. Also, as I've been counseled 100 times over the past month, you can reveal reactions multiple times. That sort of wording error doesn't bother me, but I'd make the discard mandatory to avoid it.

Allen
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.

Interesting card. In theory, it's equivalent to a Duchy, and the way it goes about doing so is nifty. I like the self-interaction and self-regulation. Nice card!

Schrader
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP for every 5 Treasure cards in your deck.
---
You may not buy this card if you have any Treasure cards in play.
--
Setup: You may start with three of these in your deck instead of three of your starting Coppers.  If anyone does, adjust the kingdom pile so it contains 8 or 12 [This Card]s, based on the number of players.

This is a neat idea, but there's too much going on. This feels like a case of trying to mash a concept into a criteria it doesn't belong to. If this were just the setup and the VP value, I'd think it was great. But as it is, the action bogs it down, and I'm not sure the "no treasure" restriction is needed, either (though I do see why you added it).

Goldman
$4 - Action-Duration
+$4
At the start of your next turn, discard a card.

Feels like it should be +$3 instead. It doesn't have the discard restriction of Baron (which seems a close enough comparison).

Trumbo
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 1 VP plus an additional 1 VP for each Randomizer card you have.
--
Whenever a supply pile becomes empty, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put that pile's randomizer card on top of that pile (if that card is still outside the game).
--
(Rule clarifications: This card counts the number of Randomizer cards that you have in your deck. Randomizer cards are not normally used in play, but using this card's Reaction ability can put them in the supply. A Randomizer card in the supply can be gained or bought just like any other card in the supply.)

Quirky card. I like it's different approach and unusual reaction qualifier. I like that it gives VP even if you can't get randomizer cards into your grip.

Mankiewicz
$5 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), gain a [Support Card], putting it in your hand.
Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Buy.
--
This card is worth 1 VP for each [Support Card] in your deck.
Setup: Add [Support Card] to the supply.
.
.
[Support Card]
$4* - Action
+1 Action
+$1
If you have 3 or more [Support Card]s in play (counting this), +1 VP.
--
Setup: Do not include this in the Randomizer deck. Only add it to the supply if [This Card] is in the Kingdom.
--
(Rule clarifications: [Support Card] cannot be bought or gained except by playing a [This Card].)

That's a lot to process. I like the idea of cards being married like this, but I find it more interesting when they do so in a limited capacity, or with some variety. Some cards are good when you just spam the hell out of them, but that fact isn't usually written out on the card so obviously, and when it is, it's with a rather basic part of the game (Duke, Counting House, etc.). It just doesn't click here for me.

Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.

Interesting method of VP battling. I like how it hurts itself by hurting others, how that interaction stifles itself in the long run, and how this encourages Estate rushing, which might be incorrect anyway. Very interesting combination of abilities.

Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.

I'd make the last bit a regular feature of the card: "If the trash pile is empty, gain a Silver." The simpler and easier to execute, the better. It might require some rebalancing at that point, but the ability just reads (and likely plays) better. The reaction is a bit swingy; the games it's good in, it's REALLY good in.

Towne
$4 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2
Worth 1 VP
--
When this card is in play, if possible you must use all of your buys.

It's a nice idea, one I've toyed with a bit. I'd rather see it on a straight-up treasure than a dual-card like this, but I admit the VP is an okay balancing feature to cost it where you did. Simple and neat.

Hecht
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)

I'm a fan of self-interaction, but I'm not sure it was absolutely necessary here. True, it gives the card more playability, but the natural discarding feature of the game always guarantees an outlet. I don't actually think this is a worse version, though; just a choice I wouldn't have made for this particular card (and again, I make that same choice QUITE OFTEN). I like the overall construction.

Puzo
$4 - Victory-Reaction
2 VP
--
When another player trashes a card, you may set this aside from your hand.  If you do, he gains a Curse.  At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand.

Victory cards are a prime place to put these ideas: even if there aren't any trashers in the game, the VP alone makes them worthwhile. It's an interesting reaction, and the setting aside feature makes it a lot less stupid when Watchtower is in someone else's hand. There's not a huge difference between returning it on your turn or on the next player's turn, but I like the latter, just so its a bit more open for everyone to get hit.

Seaton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
Trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
When another player plays a [This Card], you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Gain a copy of one of the revealed Treasures, putting it into your hand, then discard the revealed cards.
--
(Rules clarification: you may trash a [This Card] to itself, and must if you have no other Treasures in play)

I feel like just putting a revealed treasure into your hand is a better route. It avoids the Copper problem and just feels more natural.

Kaufman
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
1 VP

I'm a fan of simple cards, but unless their quirk is rather resonate, they suffer a bit in contests. I really want this to be named Pavilion, for what it's worth.

Benton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack; return [This Card] to the supply and gain a Silver, putting it in your hand.

I'd make the return part of the revelation. I won't claim to be 100% sure, but I think the timing needs to work like that, otherwise multiple reveals are possible. Semantics aside, that's a fun and simple quirk, but I feel that returning to the supply is just worse than trashing. It's a pile that'll never go away in both attack and non-attack games.

Diamond
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.

The numbers on this one are tricky. It rewards you for having excess coin, a feature that can be really good with small Victory rushes. I feel like +1 VP is enough compensation. I like the base mechanic, forcing you to not spend it in exchange for VP. It's elegant and interesting.

Lehman
$3 - Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1VP.  If the game ends while this is in play, worth 8 VP instead.
--
Now: +1 Buy.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

I REALLY like this idea, but REALLY think 8 is too much. Like, 4 even seems like it could be pushing it. Great concept, though.



More to come.

rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2012, 05:18:18 pm »
+1

How is Goldman in here? It is only Action-Duration, which is not one of the accepted type combos.

You'd think I'd notice simple things like that, but no.

I've removed it from the ballot.  And just like that, the writer of The Princess Bride and Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is stricken from this list of great screenwriters.  It's a brutal world.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2012, 05:46:16 pm »
0

Disclaimer -- one of these is mine.

Sturges
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 2 VP if you have the most Copper cards in your deck compared to other players (a tie for most would qualify as well).
--
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Copper. You may discard this card to put the Copper into your hand.

Interesting... not sure if I would ever go for this.  2VP for $3 is quite normal (e.g. Tunnel) but the fact that it could end up being worthless (if you don't have the most Copper) is off-putting.  The reaction is really only useful against junking attacks, since Copper is free to buy.  Trader has a nice extra use case that lets you "buy" Silver for free.  This would be a fine buy if you already have a lot more copper than others (e.g. from Almoner or Pawnshop), but I don't think it would be a winning strategy to go for these from the start.

I still think the set has enough alt VP already. :P

Quote
Allen
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.

I am not sure why there is a restriction on the card to discard.  This is a $5 Attack that doesn't benefit you on your turn, so why not leave the option open to discard your good cards if you so desire?

Quote
Schrader
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP for every 5 Treasure cards in your deck.
---
You may not buy this card if you have any Treasure cards in play.
--
Setup: You may start with three of these in your deck instead of three of your starting Coppers.  If anyone does, adjust the kingdom pile so it contains 8 or 12 [This Card]s, based on the number of players.

I don't think we need another treasure counting card.  Museum in the set and Feodum from DA are enough.  On its own, this is neat enough.  The main issue with Treasure-counting VP is that it's too easy to ramp up without any real penalty.  The penalty here is that you can't buy it with Treasure.  But hey, you could gain it.  The "start with these instead of Copper" effect is strange.  What happens in a 4 player game where everyone wants to start with it?  Are there going to be 12 extra copies of the card available to include in the Kingdom?


(Edit: removed Goldman because it actually didn't fit contest criteria.)

Quote
Trumbo
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 1 VP plus an additional 1 VP for each Randomizer card you have.
--
Whenever a supply pile becomes empty, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put that pile's randomizer card on top of that pile (if that card is still outside the game).
--
(Rule clarifications: This card counts the number of Randomizer cards that you have in your deck. Randomizer cards are not normally used in play, but using this card's Reaction ability can put them in the supply. A Randomizer card in the supply can be gained or bought just like any other card in the supply.)

So... can the randomizers be placed anywhere in your deck, like Stash?  Otherwise, you have accountability issues when shuffling.

This is not all that great to buy.  I'd only buy this if I was going to buy Estate with $3 anyway.  This card is only worth more than 1VP if you are lucky enough to have this reaction in hand when a supply pile empties -- otherwise, you miss that opportunity.  Even if you get lucky with that, an opponent could buy the Randomizer before you get a shot at it.  If you manage to snag a Randomizer, that only bumps up Trumbo by 1VP; how many of these will you have when they're unlikely to be worth very much?  If the stars align and you snag another randomizer, this is worth 3VP.  You probably won't get a shot to buy the third randomizer, because the game ends!  There are mega-turn games where this might be a blow-out -- you draw your deck, play a bunch of Bridges and WVs and buy everything, gaining all the Trumbos and a load of other cards and their randomizers.  I think its utility is far too narrow.

Quote
Mankiewicz
$5 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), gain a [Support Card], putting it in your hand.
Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Buy.
--
This card is worth 1 VP for each [Support Card] in your deck.
Setup: Add [Support Card] to the supply.
.
.
[Support Card]
$4* - Action
+1 Action
+$1
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), +1 VP.
--
Setup: Do not include this in the Randomizer deck. Only add it to the supply if [This Card] is in the Kingdom.
--
(Rule clarifications: [Support Card] cannot be bought or gained except by playing a [This Card].)

Duke variant.  You need to purchase and line up 3 of them in order to make them worth anything, and the Suport card that makes them worth VP makes it more difficult to line them up.  If there is any support for this card (good sifting, trashing) then you pretty much have to fight for it, or else your opponent will piledrive Mankiewicz and then very, very quickly gain a bunch of the Support card, eventually making it worth 8VP (or more, with more than 2 players).  But if you mirror, the winner of the split will have a huge advantage, especially if it splits 6/2 because the loser has no way to get the Support card!

It just doesn't feel balanced.

Quote
Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.

Hm.  It is a big junking attack like Mountebank, except it is generally easier to block and the attack hurts less.  One issue is that the size of the Estate pile does not scale up with number of players, as Curse does.  The Estates will empty really, really fast. 

That also means that the VP-ness of the card is negligible, unless your plan is to buy Simon and not play it, hoping to keep it worth 4vP (or 6VP in a bigger game).  But then the counter is pretty simple -- whoever loses the split is the one who will play the attack, eventually reducing Simon to an expensive Smithy.

Quote
Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.

The second "gain a Silver" clause is awkward and seems out of place.  Reactions should be designed such that they can still be worthwhile even if the reaction can never be used in the given kingdom.  It's not very elegant to specifically call out such a situation.

Quote
Towne
$4 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2
Worth 1 VP
--
When this card is in play, if possible you must use all of your buys.

Fairly interesting.  The extra VP makes this strictly superior to Silver, but then it adds on a condition that is usually detrimental.  However, it is easy to get around this restriction -- don't have any +Buy.  Some kingdoms don't have +Buy anyway, which makes Towne a no-brainer buy over Silver.  In Kingdoms that do have +Buy, you'll have to determine if Townie is there is a stronger strategy to make use of it.

I think this card would be far more interesting if it itself had +Buy.

Quote
Hecht
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)

I like this, because I like $5 Silver with benefit.  There are obvious combos with anything that discards (e.g. Vault, Minion, Tactician) and it hard counters discard attacks.  In the absence of these combos, it can still combo with itself.  The self-Haven is nice for smoothing out draws.  I like that it has an interesting tension with Soothsayer.  It doesn't hurt to discard this one.

I wonder if this is strong enough for $6.

Quote
Puzo
$4 - Victory-Reaction
2 VP
--
When another player trashes a card, you may set this aside from your hand.  If you do, he gains a Curse.  At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand.

Too political.

Quote
Seaton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
Trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
When another player plays a [This Card], you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Gain a copy of one of the revealed Treasures, putting it into your hand, then discard the revealed cards.
--
(Rules clarification: you may trash a [This Card] to itself, and must if you have no other Treasures in play)

I like this.  The reaction is interesting and is a neat complement to the on-play effect (trash a treasure vs. mint a treasure).  The reaction would be better if it was triggered by something more general.

Quote
Kaufman
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
1 VP

Village with a VP.  Great Hall with an extra action.  Very simple, most likely balanced... but not very interesting.

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Benton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack; return [This Card] to the supply and gain a Silver, putting it in your hand.

I think the one-shot Moat is interesting, but I don't like the $4 price.  The price gap is very small compared to Silver, and there is almost no reason to buy Silver instead of this (one exception would be Feodum).  I much prefer Silver-with-benefit at $5+.

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Diamond
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.

Woo, $5 Silver-with-benefit. :P

Interesting in that the reaction will usually only be useful if you can muster enough money that you can buy the VP you want without this.  In some cases, it can have a huge effect on gameplay.  It's often better to buy Estate instead of a Duchy, using this to get the +2VP.  If you hit $7, you can buy a Duchy and use this reaction to come close to a Province anyway.  This is also a nice counter to Ambassador and might have some applications in some other situations (e.g. Governor games).  I like this.

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Lehman
$3 - Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1VP.  If the game ends while this is in play, worth 8 VP instead.
--
Now: +1 Buy.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

7VP jump just because you were lucky enough to have this in play when the game ends?  Yeah OK, sometimes you can purposely set it up to get a bunch of these in play and then pile out.  But in general, this is way too swingy.  It doesn't help that it can be a major deterrent to ending the game for opponents.

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Brackett
$7 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$3
You may discard a Copper. If you don't, gain a Copper, putting it on your deck.
--
Worth 2 VP

Grand Market is harder to buy and it is only a cantrip Silver.  This is a cantrip GOLD that is worth 2VP.  The Copper gaining doesn't seem like much of a penalty at all.  The lack of +Buy is pretty bad, given that you should be able to get quite a lot of virtual coin with these.  Nonetheless, I think it is too similar to GM without the buy restriction.

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Kasdan
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards into your hand and put the rest back on top in any order.
--
When another player plays an Attack you may discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Discard any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards, then put one into your hand and the rest back on top in any order.

Improved Scout as a Treasure, with a powerful reaction to boot?  OK, it reveals one less card on play, but it has everything else going for it.  This is probably just fine.  The reaction is really strong though, and it even chains with itself (if you reveal a second Kasdan, you can choose to put that one in your hand and reveal it to the same attack).  That's not a bad thing.

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Hughes
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.

Seems fine, I think.

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Zaillian
$6 - Action-Duration-Victory
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP

Putting aside the 1VP, this a peddler on this turn, Lab+Peddler on the next turn.  That actually sounds fine at $5, since Wharf is like two Labs and MS is like two Peddlers.

The VP seems very much tacked on though.

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Monahan
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
If you have unused Actions (not Action cards), this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $2.
--
When you play an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and +1 Action.

Unreliability (as a Silver) in exchange for a reaction that gets you a free action.  Sounds fine.

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Gaghan
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Gain a [This Card].
--
Worth 2 VP

All it does it gain itself, which is worth 2VP.  Weak except in rushes, not all that interesting to me.

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Sorkin
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $3
If an opponent plays an Attack, reveal [This Card] from your hand.  Gain a copy of the Attack card and trash [This Card] from your hand.

Wait what.  Worth as much as Gold.  Costs only $5.  Has a reaction that can get you an Attack card?  And remember that reactions have to be optional because they can't be enforced (unless you give it the Stash treatment).  If it was mandatory then it would kind of be a drawback, but it s not mandatory.

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Robinson
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+2 Cards
Opponents with 4 or more cards in hand discard a card.  If any Victory or $0-cost cards were discarded, gain a token on the [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two tokens (rounded down) on the [This Card] mat at the end of the game.

I like the concept but I don't like how it works with more than 2 players.  The first and second play of this in a round will usually be the best -- they cause everyone else to discard, and you'll probably hit VP, Copper, Curse or Ruin.  But the third play won't hit as many players since they are already down to 3 cards.  If P1 can play this twice (hitting P2-P4), then P2's play will be much less effective because it will only cause P1 to discard.  Eh.

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Pierson
$6 - Action-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Pick one: Gain a Silver in hand; or Gain a Gold and a Copper.

Seems fine to me.  Comparable to Harem, becoming a terminal action in exchange for treasure gaining.

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Cody
$5 - Action-Victory
Reveal your hand.  +1 Action for each differently named Victory card in play and in your hand, including this one.
--
Worth 1 VP for each differently named Action card that your deck contains two copies of, including this one.
--
(Rules clarification:  For instance, if your final deck contains 5 copies of [This Card], 2 Markets, 1 Menagerie, and no other actions, each [This Card] is worth 2 VP: 1 each for the pair of Markets and more than two copies of [This Card], but nothing for the single Menagerie.)

Sounds fine but it's hard to judge.  I think it is too similar to Fairgrounds.

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Nugent
$5 - Treasure/Reaction
Worth $3
-$1 for each card remaining in your hand when this card is played, but not less than 0.
+1 Buy
--
If one of the other players has no cards in his hand at any point except the clean-up phase of their turn, you may trash this card, gaining a Duchy on top of your deck.

Very interesting Gold-with-penalty.  Gets significantly worse with junkers, significantly better with discarders.  I like it and would vote for it in a Treasure competition.  However, I feel like this reaction is just tacked on to fit the dual type theme.  I may still vote for it, depending on the other entries.

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Goyer
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $1
--
When you discard this from play, you may trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
Worth 1 VP for every $2 (rounded down) in the cost of the Treasure card you have the most copies of in your deck (the most expensive card if there is a tie).

Sounds like this should have a Reaction type as well, for the discard effect.

The VP worth is odd and rather complicated.  So it's worthless if you have mostly Copper, 1VP if you have mostly Silver, 3VP if you have mostly Gold.  2VP if you have mostly this.

If it's worth buying, it would probably be for Copper trashing.  But it itself is only worth $1.  Maybe in that case you want it for the VP, but then it's really only worth it if you manage to get a majority of Gold.  But then you'll need a lot of Gold -- more than you have Goyers!  If your goal is just to amass Goyer in a rush of some sort, then you wouldn't want to trash your Copper.

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Mamet
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. Discard it or put it back.
--
When another player plays an Attack card you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order. If you discarded any cards this way, either discard or trash this.

Simple enough.  I like it.

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Crowe
$4 - Action-Victory
Trash two cards.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash (round down).

Not sure how to feel about this.  Using the trash is interesting, if not quite original.  The Trade Route problem is quite pronounced here though.  Crowe can end up being worth a lot if you manage to trash enough differently named cards (it scales a bit faster than Fairgrounds).  But it is using something public, which means your opponent benefits from your trashing.  Hm.

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Foote
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $0
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand, +$1; or trash this card immediately, +$2.
--
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, trash the discarded card.

Trashing Copper or 1-shot Silver.  Reaction seems fine.  I think this card would work at $3.

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Darabont
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a card, you may set aside the gained card if this card is in play or you reveal this from your hand.  Return the set aside card to your deck at the end of the game.

The while-in-play/reaction is really strong.  The card has to be $5 at least!  At just $4, there is no reason not to buy this over Silver.

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Howard
$4 - Action-Victory
Either trash up to 2 cards from your hand or move a card from the trash to your [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 cards on your [This Card] mat.

Sounds fine, I think.

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Greene
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Choose one: +$1 or +1 Buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, in your buy phase play this twice.
--
(Rules clarification: If you set this aside in your buy phase, you immediately play it twice.)

Weird reaction, but I kind of like it.  I definitely like the main portion, where you choose to make this Silver or get an extra Buy.

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Odets
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
+1 Buy
+$1
--
Whenever you buy a card, you may reveal and discard this card from your hand. If you do, every other player gains a copy of the bought card instead of you.

The reaction doesn't seem to fit with the Treasure component (Copper with +Buy) but maybe the card name would tie it together thematically.  The big thing here is that it can be used as an Attack that breaks through Lighthouse, Moat, etc.  It combos with itself in that, with two in hand, you can play one for the +Buy so you can Curse and still buy something useful on your turn.

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McQuarrie
$3 - Action-Victory
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  You may discard up to one card.  Put the rest back in any order.
+2 Cards
--
If a Victory supply pile other than Provinces or Colonies is empty, this is worth 2 VP.  Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

The action is very similar to Oracle.  Option to discard just one is usually better than option to discard both, IMO.  I think the VP is too similar to Canal, and it doesn't match the action at all.

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Ephron
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2 and 1 VP
--
When you gain or play this, look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  You may discard any number of them.  Put the rest on top of the deck in any order.

Harem that costs less and is worth slightly less VP, but with an on-gain and on-play Cartographer.  I think it would be OK if the effect was on-gain only, but otherwise it just seems too strong.  Should cost $6, I think.

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Sherwood
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than the Attack card that is not a [This Card], putting it into your hand.

Mostly a Silver-gaining Copper?  Not a fan of that.

The reaction is really neat though.  Basing the gain off of the Attack card's cost is clever and unique.

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Brooks
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.

Too similar to FG, IMO.

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Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)

Reaction is quite similar to Hechte, above.  I like it, but I think it is better integrated in Hechte.  Being one-shot makes fun combos (e.g. with Tactician) unsustainable.  It could be a counter to discard attacks, but it still only works once, and otherwise is just an expensive Copper in your hand.  In boards without any discarding, this really is just an expensive Copper.

(Edit: "Return to the discard" phrasing confused me.  The correction makes this better, though it still feels too narrow.  No good on boards without discard attacks/sifters/discard-for-benefit.)

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Helgeland
$5 - Victory-Reaction
1 VP
--
Whenever a player buys a non-victory card, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.

Like Smugglers, but as a reaction.  That sounds fun, especially in games with more than 2 players (do I gain this card, or do I wait to see what the next guy buys?).  But there must be a better main effect for this?  1VP doesn't fit and feels very weak.

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Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

This is pretty much better than Gold.  It is always worth $3 if you want.  When you don't do it, it means you can set up an even better next turn!  And it cycles your deck for you.  And it can even be worth VP.  Way too strong!

Oops, misread.  Only gives you +$3 if you flipped all VP or Curse.  This is actually pretty neat.  It gives you a nice boost when your deck is junked, and can really help you out in the end game.  When your deck isn't junked, it is still helpful but not that great -- fine for a $2 card.  I like this.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 08:37:15 pm by eHalcyon »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2012, 05:55:58 pm »
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@Rush

The Sturges reaction is idempotent.  If you reveal multiple times, you still only gain one Copper, because you gain that INSTEAD of what you would have gained.  It's like Trader.

I like the suggestion made for Chayefsky re: the Silver gain.  Neatly and elegantly solves the awkwardness of having two "under the line" effects/clauses.
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2012, 06:00:33 pm »
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Disclaimer -- one of these is mine.
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Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

This is pretty much better than Gold.  It is always worth $3 if you want.  When you don't do it, it means you can set up an even better next turn!  And it cycles your deck for you.  And it can even be worth VP.  Way too strong!

I think you misread?  It looks to me like you only get the $3 if all three of the cards get discards (i.e. if they were all victory/curse cards).
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2012, 06:01:19 pm »
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Disclaimer -- one of these is mine.
Quote
Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

This is pretty much better than Gold.  It is always worth $3 if you want.  When you don't do it, it means you can set up an even better next turn!  And it cycles your deck for you.  And it can even be worth VP.  Way too strong!

I think you misread?  It looks to me like you only get the $3 if all three of the cards get discards (i.e. if they were all victory/curse cards).

Oh hey, you're right.  I thought that you could just discard anything.  Reevaluating...

Edit: Updated.  Nice catch. :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 06:03:30 pm by eHalcyon »
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2012, 06:12:52 pm »
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Sturges
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 2 VP if you have the most Copper cards in your deck compared to other players (a tie for most would qualify as well).
--
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Copper. You may discard this card to put the Copper into your hand.

Often too weak in the kind of game (cursing or ambassador) when you want it most. Watchtower lets you trash the card or topdeck it, but it is an action you would want throughout the game. You only want this at the end.

Allen
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.

The Victory doesn't seem relevant on this card. Shouldn't you be able to discard this thing to itself. Its cursing effect is stronger if you are already getting cursed or late game.

Schrader
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP for every 5 Treasure cards in your deck.
---
You may not buy this card if you have any Treasure cards in play.
--
Setup: You may start with three of these in your deck instead of three of your starting Coppers.  If anyone does, adjust the kingdom pile so it contains 8 or 12 [This Card]s, based on the number of players.
Interesting. This card is better than Copper nearly every board and can be Upgraded to far better cards, so I can't think of when it wouldn't be used (this is bad). As a victory card, it is very strong, but hard to get without upgrading or virtual money.

Trumbo
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 1 VP plus an additional 1 VP for each Randomizer card you have.
--
Whenever a supply pile becomes empty, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put that pile's randomizer card on top of that pile (if that card is still outside the game).
--
(Rule clarifications: This card counts the number of Randomizer cards that you have in your deck. Randomizer cards are not normally used in play, but using this card's Reaction ability can put them in the supply. A Randomizer card in the supply can be gained or bought just like any other card in the supply.)
This is an absolute mess without sleeving and for game cleanup.

Mankiewicz
$5 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), gain a [Support Card], putting it in your hand.
Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Buy.
--
This card is worth 1 VP for each [Support Card] in your deck.
Setup: Add [Support Card] to the supply.
.
.
[Support Card]
$4* - Action
+1 Action
+$1
If you have 3 or more [Support Card]s in play (counting this), +1 VP.
--
Setup: Do not include this in the Randomizer deck. Only add it to the supply if [This Card] is in the Kingdom.
--
(Rule clarifications: [Support Card] cannot be bought or gained except by playing a [This Card].)
The cards seem worthless except for when you are doing the "strategy" of getting as many of one or both of these. I can see the comparison to Duchy. Too complicated for me.

Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.
This is probably weak in many boards as people don't mind discarding Victories with draw up to or Menagerie, Tunnel, or gaining Estates which help Gardens, Barons, or Silk Road. In multiplayer, 2 players using these fill the other players with Estates that weaken the VP of themselves.

Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.
I don't want to worry about whether the kingdom has trashing. This card is weakened by the presence of trash for no benefit (Chapel, Steward), since you don't want to gain Copper/Estate/Curse nearly all of the time. It needs what Rush_Clasic suggested.

Towne
$4 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2
Worth 1 VP
--
When this card is in play, if possible you must use all of your buys.
A no brainer in kingdoms without +Buy, but there is enough Victory interaction in kingdoms without +Buy that the choice seems strategic. Seems okay.

Hecht
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)
I think this doesn't need the clarification as badly if you change to "At the beginning of your next Buy phase". Seems okay except for occassional rule headaches.

Puzo
$4 - Victory-Reaction
2 VP
--
When another player trashes a card, you may set this aside from your hand.  If you do, he gains a Curse.  At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand.
Sometimes shutting down trashing you completely whiff with this card (other players trash the turn before or after you have this in hand). It is definitely targetted and political since you can choose not to use it on one player and instead hope to use it on another.

Seaton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
Trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
When another player plays a [This Card], you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Gain a copy of one of the revealed Treasures, putting it into your hand, then discard the revealed cards.
--
(Rules clarification: you may trash a [This Card] to itself, and must if you have no other Treasures in play)
A Treasure Moneylender. Since you already got the coin from the Copper you trashed, isn't this just better than Moneylender?

Kaufman
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
1 VP
Fine, but a little boring. This pile will run out in most Engine games, especially with gainers or cost reduction.

Benton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack; return [This Card] to the supply and gain a Silver, putting it in your hand.
Superior to Silver and at $4, no other official card is. I would worry about BM being invulnerable to attacks.

Diamond
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.
A $5 silver with Farmlands logic. With one Diamond: 10=P+2VP, 9 = P, 8= P, 7= D+2VP, 6=D, 5=D, 4=E+2VP. A little less complicated than Farmlands, interesting in multiples. It also lets you manipulate the PPR to your favor (If you have more of these). Seems okay.

Lehman
$3 - Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1VP.  If the game ends while this is in play, worth 8 VP instead.
--
Now: +1 Buy.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.
A little wacky. You have 2 turns and opponents have 1 turn to win for a bonus whenever this is played. In a game without +Buy, both players could have 1 and be ambivalent to ending the game. With a player having 2 or more of this, it gets even wackier.

Brackett
$7 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$3
You may discard a Copper. If you don't, gain a Copper, putting it on your deck.
--
Worth 2 VP
A better Grand Market with VP added? Sounds too strong.

Kasdan
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards into your hand and put the rest back on top in any order.
--
When another player plays an Attack you may discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Discard any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards, then put one into your hand and the rest back on top in any order.
I would prefer if the two versions of this card had the same wording. Also, if you suffer an attack and reveal this, you look at the same 3 cards you kept on top again on your next turn.

Hughes
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.
Why are the set aside cards not discarded immediately? Just wondering. This is a Courtyardified Peddler. The reaction is nearly always worse than Watchtower's, and I don't see the point of the Chancelloring.

Zaillian
$6 - Action-Duration-Victory
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP
The victory seems tacked on. The card already is 2 Peddlers and a Lab. When do you want this mainly for the VP?

Monahan
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
If you have unused Actions (not Action cards), this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $2.
--
When you play an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and +1 Action.
This is overly complicated for what amounts to a bad Village when you are not using it as a bad Silver. Also, do you get to reveal this before or after you play a smithy?

Gaghan
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Gain a [This Card].
--
Worth 2 VP
It doesn't need the +1 Action. It is too strong with it, giving a player a chance to get up to 16 points in 2P unimpeded, causing a piles ending.

Sorkin
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $3
If an opponent plays an Attack, reveal [This Card] from your hand.  Gain a copy of the Attack card and trash [This Card] from your hand.
You cannot enforce this. If this was optional, it is better than Gold and costs less.

Robinson
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+2 Cards
Opponents with 4 or more cards in hand discard a card.  If any Victory or $0-cost cards were discarded, gain a token on the [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two tokens (rounded down) on the [This Card] mat at the end of the game.
It is worth more when opponents discard what it doesn't hurt them to discard. If you have 4 or more of these, each time it is used, it gains 2VP for your side if any opponents discard a junky card. There is reason to get this late because it seems the Robinson mat is shared between all players. Seems okay.

Pierson
$6 - Action-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Pick one: Gain a Silver in hand; or Gain a Gold and a Copper.
Awkwardly similar to Harem. If there was no Harem, I would say this is great.

Cody
$5 - Action-Victory
Reveal your hand.  +1 Action for each differently named Victory card in play and in your hand, including this one.
--
Worth 1 VP for each differently named Action card that your deck contains two copies of, including this one.
--
(Rules clarification:  For instance, if your final deck contains 5 copies of [This Card], 2 Markets, 1 Menagerie, and no other actions, each [This Card] is worth 2 VP: 1 each for the pair of Markets and more than two copies of [This Card], but nothing for the single Menagerie.)
Variety... hmmm... the wording could be made more similar to my District from the Victory challenge "Worth 1 VP for each card you have 5 or more copies of." For you it would be "Worth 1 VP for each Action card you have 2 or more copies of". The differently names Victory card in play bit is weird. Only Great Hall and Nobles are relevant for it, and Nobles that are in play like this are likely in Action mode where it would be redundant.

Nugent
$5 - Treasure/Reaction
Worth $3
-$1 for each card remaining in your hand when this card is played, but not less than 0.
+1 Buy
--
If one of the other players has no cards in his hand at any point except the clean-up phase of their turn, you may trash this card, gaining a Duchy on top of your deck.
A Treasure that becomes better if you are lucky or can trash or discard the Victoies out of your hand. Seems okay.

Goyer
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $1
--
When you discard this from play, you may trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
Worth 1 VP for every $2 (rounded down) in the cost of the Treasure card you have the most copies of in your deck (the most expensive card if there is a tie).
It eats your coppers like a Loan while you attempt to make an expensive card the most prevalent in your deck. It is awkward when you have 4 Coppers and 3 of this and Gold at the end of the game, but that can often feel like the player's fault. Seems okay.

Mamet
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. Discard it or put it back.
--
When another player plays an Attack card you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order. If you discarded any cards this way, either discard or trash this.
Seems okay. Definitely not a power card and I would often consider not getting it even with $2, which is a good thing.

Crowe
$4 - Action-Victory
Trash two cards.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash (round down).
I could see this strategy getting pretty crazy, especially near the end of the game where a person might be encouraged to get these over Duchies. That would take 6 differently named trashed cards, so that seems okay. An interesting opener that I don't think people would always get.

Foote
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $0
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand, +$1; or trash this card immediately, +$2.
--
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, trash the discarded card.
I especially like this reaction. My favorite version of the reaction is "When another player plays an Attack card, you can reveal this from your hand. If you do, trash a card from your hand." I would like that here.

Darabont
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a card, you may set aside the gained card if this card is in play or you reveal this from your hand.  Return the set aside card to your deck at the end of the game.
Better than silver at $4. I avoid that.

Howard
$4 - Action-Victory
Either trash up to 2 cards from your hand or move a card from the trash to your [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 cards on your [This Card] mat.
A Crowe variant. Its alternate mode is a Monument that grows in power the more you have in your deck. Having more in your deck causes you to have to trash more things to restock. This may create awkward games where all players trash their cards and fill their 4 Howards up with VP, causing the game to go very long. That needs to be tested.

Greene
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Choose one: +$1 or +1 Buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, in your buy phase play this twice.
--
(Rules clarification: If you set this aside in your buy phase, you immediately play it twice.)
Does this play twice if you use its +Buy to buy a card? I am confused.

Odets
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
+1 Buy
+$1
--
Whenever you buy a card, you may reveal and discard this card from your hand. If you do, every other player gains a copy of the bought card instead of you.
A Sea Hag if you have a bad hand or any other sources of +Buy? Having 2 of these collide in the same hand with 2 copper is $3 and you curse your opponents. Later in the game it lets you do the same with Estates. Seems okay.

McQuarrie
$3 - Action-Victory
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  You may discard up to one card.  Put the rest back in any order.
+2 Cards
--
If a Victory supply pile other than Provinces or Colonies is empty, this is worth 2 VP.  Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.
*You have to empty a pile for this to work? That is a weird set of games, especially for the weak terminal effect the rest of the card has. I am not sure.

Ephron
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2 and 1 VP
--
When you gain or play this, look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  You may discard any number of them.  Put the rest on top of the deck in any order.
*Just a slightly different version of Harem. It looks too good in big money and we already have Tea House for this kind of interaction.

Sherwood
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than the Attack card that is not a [This Card], putting it into your hand.
*Free Ironworks for anyone attacked? Talisman or Bureaucrat or something? Seems fun.

Brooks
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.
*The reaction is too strong. The regular card is very weak. Normally, this seems to balance out. In this case, it makes players wary to attempt to end the game (buy victories).

Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)
*I don't like cards that use tunnel reactions to give you buys, cards, actions or coin. It has weird memory issues. This example isn't a very good card, either.

Helgeland
$5 - Victory-Reaction
1 VP
--
Whenever a player buys a non-victory card, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.
*A strange Smugglers variant. It works better than Smugglers in multiplayer. Also, you can gain a bonus copy of whatever you can buy that turn. Even after you use this twice, just buying the cards you want instead of this would be superior. A Helgeland strategy attempting to use more than one would be silly and fun. Sadly this card is awkward during greening.

Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.
*So, you get an extraordinary bonus when you already get lucky enough to only discard Victories or Curses? As a linear strategy, this looks weak.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2012, 06:43:29 pm »
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Updated:  Schrader was an earlier submission by someone who submitted a replacement card subsequently.  (That card is also on the ballot.)  So I crossed that one off.

Now Paul Schrader, who wrote Taxi Driver, isn't one of the great screenwriters either.  Man.  Tough crowd, tough crowd.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2012, 08:29:47 pm »
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I'm going to start near the end and do these in chunks, quoting eHalcyon's post because he did the work of separating things for me (thanks!).  My comments are in BOLD.

Quote
Odets
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
+1 Buy
+$1
--
Whenever you buy a card, you may reveal and discard this card from your hand. If you do, every other player gains a copy of the bought card instead of you.

The reaction doesn't seem to fit with the Treasure component (Copper with +Buy) but maybe the card name would tie it together thematically.  The big thing here is that it can be used as an Attack that breaks through Lighthouse, Moat, etc.  It combos with itself in that, with two in hand, you can play one for the +Buy so you can Curse and still buy something useful on your turn.

I don't like that this is a thinly-veiled attack that busts through moats and lighthouses.  Then again, I typically have a distaste for attacks, especially of the cursing/junking variety.

Quote
McQuarrie
$3 - Action-Victory
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  You may discard up to one card.  Put the rest back in any order.
+2 Cards
--
If a Victory supply pile other than Provinces or Colonies is empty, this is worth 2 VP.  Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

The action is very similar to Oracle.  Option to discard just one is usually better than option to discard both, IMO.  I think the VP is too similar to Canal, and it doesn't match the action at all.

I partially agree.  It IS similar to Oracle, and the option to discard one does make it stronger, but unlike Oracle, there's no attack component.  I think the card probably works thematically.  This card's pile is a Victory pile, so you can piledrive this to make these cards worth something.  To me, this looks like an enabler of alt-VP and a decent pick up in a game that is clogged with curses or with late game VP.  Plus, it is probably a fairly good enabler of Silk Road.  In those sorts of games, it is nice to filter out some green and that's what the action part does.  It is probably fairly weak on many boards, but I don't think it is strongly dominated across all boards.

Quote
Ephron
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2 and 1 VP
--
When you gain or play this, look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  You may discard any number of them.  Put the rest on top of the deck in any order.

Harem that costs less and is worth slightly less VP, but with an on-gain and on-play Cartographer.  I think it would be OK if the effect was on-gain only, but otherwise it just seems too strong.  Should cost $6, I think.

The comparison to Cartographer is good, but I don't think it is quite right to say that it is exactly an "on-gain and on-play Cartographer."  A strength of Cartographer is to set cards up for this turn (and next turn, too) and the +1 Card, +1 Action with 4 card reorder/discard ability does that.  On-gain/on-play Cartographer doesn't net that card this turn, so the best you can do is to set up a good turn next turn (which is nice, but not overpowered).

Quote
Sherwood
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than the Attack card that is not a [This Card], putting it into your hand.

Mostly a Silver-gaining Copper?  Not a fan of that.

The reaction is really neat though.  Basing the gain off of the Attack card's cost is clever and unique.

I like the idea too.  Late game it could gain Estates.  I would like it better if it was "you may gain a card up to the cost of this card."

Quote
Brooks
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.

Too similar to FG, IMO.

Agreed, and more expensive.  Probably an OK counter to an Alt VP rush if you're not mirroring.

Quote
Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)

Reaction is quite similar to Hechte, above.  I like it, but I think it is better integrated in Hechte.  Being one-shot makes fun combos (e.g. with Tactician) unsustainable.  It could be a counter to discard attacks, but it still only works once, and otherwise is just an expensive Copper in your hand.  In boards without any discarding, this really is just an expensive Copper.

It's not really one-shot in the sense I think you mean because it says "return to the discard pile" not the "supply."  That said, this would be a nice enabler of double-Tac.  I like it.

Quote
Helgeland
$5 - Victory-Reaction
1 VP
--
Whenever a player buys a non-victory card, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.

Like Smugglers, but as a reaction.  That sounds fun, especially in games with more than 2 players (do I gain this card, or do I wait to see what the next guy buys?).  But there must be a better main effect for this?  1VP doesn't fit and feels very weak.

This would be great in Colony games to pick up Platinums.  It is a little more expensive than I would pay, but I'm bad at costing cards.

Quote
Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

This is pretty much better than Gold.  It is always worth $3 if you want.  When you don't do it, it means you can set up an even better next turn!  And it cycles your deck for you.  And it can even be worth VP.  Way too strong!

Oops, misread.  Only gives you +$3 if you flipped all VP or Curse.  This is actually pretty neat.  It gives you a nice boost when your deck is junked, and can really help you out in the end game.  When your deck isn't junked, it is still helpful but not that great -- fine for a $2 card.  I like this.

I like the name.  If this card is accepted, it should keep the name Pressburger.  Then again, even if your deck is junked it is not a reliable $3.  I don't foresee getting that bonus often.  Plus, the 1 VP part of the card isn't worth fighting for.  Like McQuarrie, this would probably be a decent enabler of Silk Road.  The fact that it is cheap is a plus for this as well.  I feel like I like this more than I should


I'll do more commentary later.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2012, 08:34:19 pm »
+1

Huh, Riskin says "return to discard".  I thought it was "return to supply" because otherwise why not just say "discard it"?
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2012, 08:37:52 pm »
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@One-Armed Man - Cody needs to count Victory cards in play because it, itself, is a Victory card in play you want to count for it to ever be a Uni.

Incidentally, I like the card, it seems balanced and good wacky, seems like that funky Menagerie deck you built and that funky Fairgrounds deck you made work rolled in one (or at the least, one or the other, and since I love Black Market - Cornucopia kind of games I'd like the card)
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Archetype

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2012, 08:50:09 pm »
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I'm only going to be discussing the non Victory Dual cards. Not because they are all bad (because actually there are some pretty cool ones) but because I think this set has enough Victory cards :P

Disclaimer: One of these cards is mine

Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.


Interesting Reaction. I think it's balanced, but I really don't like the last Section of it.


Hecht
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)


Really like it. A Silver that you can is saved for next turn.

Seaton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
Trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
When another player plays a [This Card], you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Gain a copy of one of the revealed Treasures, putting it into your hand, then discard the revealed cards.
--
(Rules clarification: you may trash a [This Card] to itself, and must if you have no other Treasures in play)


The reaction seems a bit forced, and acts as a Mint. Like the Treasure part, acts as a stronger Loan in the beginning, but is a nuisance at the end.

Diamond
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.


Cool card with a unique Reaction! Really simple and elegant.

Kasdan
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards into your hand and put the rest back on top in any order.
--
When another player plays an Attack you may discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Discard any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards, then put one into your hand and the rest back on top in any order.


A lot of top X cards of your deck shenanigans. Seems balanced, but a bigger nightmare IRL than Secret Chamber.

Hughes
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.


Kind of like an Action-Treasure with the +1 Card part. It also has a nice Chancellor affect which is nice. I'd like it a lot better without the +1 Card part.


Monahan
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
If you have unused Actions (not Action cards), this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $2.
--
When you play an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and +1 Action.


Has some cool self synergy, and a pretty neat Treasure part. Like it a lot.


Sorkin
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $3
If an opponent plays an Attack, reveal [This Card] from your hand.  Gain a copy of the Attack card and trash [This Card] from your hand.


Too good. To be balanced it could give $2, but I still wouldn't like it.

Nugent
$5 - Treasure/Reaction
Worth $3
-$1 for each card remaining in your hand when this card is played, but not less than 0.
+1 Buy
--
If one of the other players has no cards in his hand at any point except the clean-up phase of their turn, you may trash this card, gaining a Duchy on top of your deck.


Keeping track of how much this card is worth could be an issue, and the Reaction seems that it wouldn't activate often.


Mamet
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. Discard it or put it back.
--
When another player plays an Attack card you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order. If you discarded any cards this way, either discard or trash this.


I know who's entry this is, and I'm glad they submitted it. It's a really solid card with a defense similar to Secret Chambers, but without the headache.

Foote
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $0
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand, +$1; or trash this card immediately, +$2.
--
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, trash the discarded card.


Copper or a one-shot Silver. Has a cool defense against Discard Attacks and Draw then Discard Attacks. Like this one a lot too.

Darabont
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a card, you may set aside the gained card if this card is in play or you reveal this from your hand.  Return the set aside card to your deck at the end of the game.


Strictly better than Silver. Cool Reaction though, just badly priced.


Greene
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Choose one: +$1 or +1 Buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, in your buy phase play this twice.
--
(Rules clarification: If you set this aside in your buy phase, you immediately play it twice.)


Huh. This one's interesting. I can't tell if its balanced or not, but I like it.


Odets
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
+1 Buy
+$1
--
Whenever you buy a card, you may reveal and discard this card from your hand. If you do, every other player gains a copy of the bought card instead of you
.

An Attack, that's a Treasure. It's got the self synergy I like and can act as a junker. Another solid card that I like.


Sherwood
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than the Attack card that is not a [This Card], putting it into your hand.


The first practical Reaction to an Attack that doesn't block or trash it. The gaining a card costing 3 or less is a little strange though, but I like it.


Brooks
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.

Seems balanced. I like it.

Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)


Acts as a counter to discarding Attacks. Solid card.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 08:53:18 pm by Archetype »
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2012, 09:29:09 am »
0

Quote
Monahan
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
If you have unused Actions (not Action cards), this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $2.
--
When you play an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and +1 Action.

Also, do you get to reveal this before or after you play a smithy?

I added a clarification, but basically the rule is as it is when playing Reactions to attack cards played by other players.  The attack card is played, then Reactions are revealed and resolved, and then the Attack card is resolved.

So the sequence of events would be:

(1) I play a Smithy.
(2) I reveal Monahan, discard it, and get +1 Action.
(3) I draw 3 cards from the Smithy.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2012, 01:36:02 pm »
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Here are more comments, starting from the beginning.  Mine are in bold.

Sturges
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 2 VP if you have the most Copper cards in your deck compared to other players (a tie for most would qualify as well).
--
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Copper. You may discard this card to put the Copper into your hand.

Interesting... not sure if I would ever go for this.  2VP for $3 is quite normal (e.g. Tunnel) but the fact that it could end up being worthless (if you don't have the most Copper) is off-putting.  The reaction is really only useful against junking attacks, since Copper is free to buy.  Trader has a nice extra use case that lets you "buy" Silver for free.  This would be a fine buy if you already have a lot more copper than others (e.g. from Almoner or Pawnshop), but I don't think it would be a winning strategy to go for these from the start.

I still think the set has enough alt VP already. :P

I disagree that the set has enough alt VP, but I am not a huge fan of this card.  It is too all or nothing for me.  I'd like it better if it were 1 VP if you don't win the copper battle and 2 VP if you do.

Quote
Allen
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.

I am not sure why there is a restriction on the card to discard.  This is a $5 Attack that doesn't benefit you on your turn, so why not leave the option open to discard your good cards if you so desire?

Agreed.  Seems fairly weak.

Quote
Schrader
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP for every 5 Treasure cards in your deck.
---
You may not buy this card if you have any Treasure cards in play.
--
Setup: You may start with three of these in your deck instead of three of your starting Coppers.  If anyone does, adjust the kingdom pile so it contains 8 or 12 [This Card]s, based on the number of players.

I don't think we need another treasure counting card.  Museum in the set and Feodum from DA are enough.  On its own, this is neat enough.  The main issue with Treasure-counting VP is that it's too easy to ramp up without any real penalty.  The penalty here is that you can't buy it with Treasure.  But hey, you could gain it.  The "start with these instead of Copper" effect is strange.  What happens in a 4 player game where everyone wants to start with it?  Are there going to be 12 extra copies of the card available to include in the Kingdom?

Again, I disagree on the need for another treasure counting card.  I like the idea of counting treasure.  On the other hand, I think this is too "special" for me (e.g., no buy if you have treasure in play, start with 3 of these.)

(Edit: removed Goldman because it actually didn't fit contest criteria.)

Quote
Trumbo
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 1 VP plus an additional 1 VP for each Randomizer card you have.
--
Whenever a supply pile becomes empty, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put that pile's randomizer card on top of that pile (if that card is still outside the game).
--
(Rule clarifications: This card counts the number of Randomizer cards that you have in your deck. Randomizer cards are not normally used in play, but using this card's Reaction ability can put them in the supply. A Randomizer card in the supply can be gained or bought just like any other card in the supply.)

So... can the randomizers be placed anywhere in your deck, like Stash?  Otherwise, you have accountability issues when shuffling.

This is not all that great to buy.  I'd only buy this if I was going to buy Estate with $3 anyway.  This card is only worth more than 1VP if you are lucky enough to have this reaction in hand when a supply pile empties -- otherwise, you miss that opportunity.  Even if you get lucky with that, an opponent could buy the Randomizer before you get a shot at it.  If you manage to snag a Randomizer, that only bumps up Trumbo by 1VP; how many of these will you have when they're unlikely to be worth very much?  If the stars align and you snag another randomizer, this is worth 3VP.  You probably won't get a shot to buy the third randomizer, because the game ends!  There are mega-turn games where this might be a blow-out -- you draw your deck, play a bunch of Bridges and WVs and buy everything, gaining all the Trumbos and a load of other cards and their randomizers.  I think its utility is far too narrow.

This introduces a new mechanic that doesn't strike me as worth the opportunity cost of learning.

Quote
Mankiewicz
$5 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), gain a [Support Card], putting it in your hand.
Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Buy.
--
This card is worth 1 VP for each [Support Card] in your deck.
Setup: Add [Support Card] to the supply.
.
.
[Support Card]
$4* - Action
+1 Action
+$1
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), +1 VP.
--
Setup: Do not include this in the Randomizer deck. Only add it to the supply if [This Card] is in the Kingdom.
--
(Rule clarifications: [Support Card] cannot be bought or gained except by playing a [This Card].)

Duke variant.  You need to purchase and line up 3 of them in order to make them worth anything, and the Suport card that makes them worth VP makes it more difficult to line them up.  If there is any support for this card (good sifting, trashing) then you pretty much have to fight for it, or else your opponent will piledrive Mankiewicz and then very, very quickly gain a bunch of the Support card, eventually making it worth 8VP (or more, with more than 2 players).  But if you mirror, the winner of the split will have a huge advantage, especially if it splits 6/2 because the loser has no way to get the Support card!

It just doesn't feel balanced.

This feels like a lot of creativity went into it, but unfortunately, I like simplicity.

Quote
Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.

Hm.  It is a big junking attack like Mountebank, except it is generally easier to block and the attack hurts less.  One issue is that the size of the Estate pile does not scale up with number of players, as Curse does.  The Estates will empty really, really fast. 

That also means that the VP-ness of the card is negligible, unless your plan is to buy Simon and not play it, hoping to keep it worth 4vP (or 6VP in a bigger game).  But then the counter is pretty simple -- whoever loses the split is the one who will play the attack, eventually reducing Simon to an expensive Smithy.

I don't understand why you need to reveal a hand with no Victory cards in it.  If you don't discard, just gain the Estate and Copper.  Do you want to force players to discard valuable dual types (e.g. Nobles)?  Do you want to keep players honest about not deliberately gaining Estates?  Maybe that's it.  I like the Estate interaction, but I'd like it at a lower price point because I'm not sure I want to pick this up for the VP.  Maybe +2 Cards and price it at $5?  Then, maybe it is a weaker attack.  Maybe just price it at $5?  I don't know.

Quote
Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.

The second "gain a Silver" clause is awkward and seems out of place.  Reactions should be designed such that they can still be worthwhile even if the reaction can never be used in the given kingdom.  It's not very elegant to specifically call out such a situation.

Agreed.

Quote
Towne
$4 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2
Worth 1 VP
--
When this card is in play, if possible you must use all of your buys.

Fairly interesting.  The extra VP makes this strictly superior to Silver, but then it adds on a condition that is usually detrimental.  However, it is easy to get around this restriction -- don't have any +Buy.  Some kingdoms don't have +Buy anyway, which makes Towne a no-brainer buy over Silver.  In Kingdoms that do have +Buy, you'll have to determine if Townie is there is a stronger strategy to make use of it.

I think this card would be far more interesting if it itself had +Buy.
If it had a +Buy, would you price it lower or higher?  That's interesting.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 10:34:23 pm by nopawnsintended »
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2012, 04:18:59 pm »
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Quote
Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.

I don't understand why you need to reveal a hand with no Victory cards in it.  If you don't discard, just gain the Estate and Copper.  Do you want to force players to discard valuable dual types (e.g. Nobles)?  Do you want to keep players honest about not deliberately gaining Estates?  Maybe that's it.  I like the Estate interaction, but I'd like it at a lower price point because I'm not sure I want to pick this up for the VP.  Maybe +2 Cards and price it at $5?  Then, maybe it is a weaker attack.  Maybe just price it at $5?  I don't know.
I think it is because this card itself is a valuable dual type and to prevent late game purposeful Estate gains.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2012, 06:19:19 pm »
0


Quote
Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.

I don't understand why you need to reveal a hand with no Victory cards in it.  If you don't discard, just gain the Estate and Copper.  Do you want to force players to discard valuable dual types (e.g. Nobles)?  Do you want to keep players honest about not deliberately gaining Estates?  Maybe that's it.  I like the Estate interaction, but I'd like it at a lower price point because I'm not sure I want to pick this up for the VP.  Maybe +2 Cards and price it at $5?  Then, maybe it is a weaker attack.  Maybe just price it at $5?  I don't know.
I think it is because this card itself is a valuable dual type and to prevent late game purposeful Estate gains.

That interaction makes me like the card less.  If I am about to attack with my own Simon, and I get hit by one of these, I might be left Simonless and angry at my luck that I didn't have other green cards in my hand.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2012, 10:47:14 pm »
0

Some comments now, more tomorrow.

Treasure-Reactions:

Out of all the Treasure-Reaction ideas, I like the "save it for later"-style reaction a lot. Probably the best idea of all the dual type ideas, actually. Too bad it's so difficult to word correctly. I think Auto-Destruct Sequence also had a card of this style, Reserve, in his Unnamed Dominion expansion on the Variants forum, but the wording and mechanic wasn't quite fleshed out yet. I saw the concept there first and was hoping a similar idea would be submitted here! It looks like Hecht, Greene, and Riskin all are based on this idea. And I think Riskin is the closest to being right.

Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)

I guess I would word it: "When you would discard this other than from play, you may reveal and set this aside. If you do, at the beginning of your next Buy phase, +$2 and discard this card." I think this would resolve the memory issues, and give the card a little more power which I think is just fine even at $2 (but maybe not, I'm not 100% sure. It may have to be $3 with that wording). This way it would not rely completely on other cards being in the kingdom.

Quote
Hecht
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)

Quote
Greene
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Choose one: +$1 or +1 Buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, in your buy phase play this twice.
--
(Rules clarification: If you set this aside in your buy phase, you immediately play it twice.)

I don't like Hecht's non-reaction ability. Although, the reaction is slightly better worded than Riskin, it is the same idea. I just think this reaction is just too cool to include extra complications. I don't like Greene's primary ability either. It feels too much like an Action. And the "play it twice" is more confusing than +$2 like on Riskin because there is more likely to be memory issues there.

But this mechanic is almost just too neat to worry about those details. I might just have to at least approval vote of all three and hope wording issues can be taken care of if one of them wins.

--------------

Oh, wait! There are other Treasure-Reactions? Some comments on some of the others:

Quote
Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.

I like the idea, but I also agree with Rush_Clasic's suggestion about Chayefsky:

I'd make the last bit a regular feature of the card: "If the trash pile is empty, gain a Silver." The simpler and easier to execute, the better. It might require some rebalancing at that point, but the ability just reads (and likely plays) better.

Quote
Diamond
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.

I am surprised at all the positive comments Diamond is getting given the negative comments +VP cards seemed to get last week. This also seems way too powerful; maybe even better than Harem. Diamond would be especially devistating in an alt VP game where you don't need all that much purchasing power.

Quote
Brooks
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.

Seems strong, but I really like the concept behind Brooks.

Some thoughts on the rest:

Seaton: Like the Treasure part, dislike the reaction. Seems too strong.
Benton: seems like it scales poorly in multi-player.
Kasdan: Too much text for not different enough above and below line abilities for my taste.
Hughes: Seems like a bunch of bits from other cards cobbled together in not too exciting a way.
Monahan: Tries to be a treasure for engines? But not in an interesting way.
Sorkin, Nugent: Not nearly as good as the gimped Gold we already have in the set.
Mamet: What's with the "discard or trash"? Otherwise the Reaction is kind of neat, but the Treasure part is...meh.
Foote, Darabont, Odets: Just not up my alley. Sorry.
Sherwood: The reaction to attacks just seems like too much of a benefit. Maye if it required trashing the card instead of discarding.

Comments on other types coming later.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 10:57:23 pm by Polk5440 »
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2012, 08:35:47 am »
0

Some comments now, more tomorrow.

Treasure-Reactions:

Out of all the Treasure-Reaction ideas, I like the "save it for later"-style reaction a lot. Probably the best idea of all the dual type ideas, actually. Too bad it's so difficult to word correctly. I think Auto-Destruct Sequence also had a card of this style, Reserve, in his Unnamed Dominion expansion on the Variants forum, but the wording and mechanic wasn't quite fleshed out yet. I saw the concept there first and was hoping a similar idea would be submitted here! It looks like Hecht, Greene, and Riskin all are based on this idea. And I think Riskin is the closest to being right.

Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)

I guess I would word it: "When you would discard this other than from play, you may reveal and set this aside. If you do, at the beginning of your next Buy phase, +$2 and discard this card." I think this would resolve the memory issues, and give the card a little more power which I think is just fine even at $2 (but maybe not, I'm not 100% sure. It may have to be $3 with that wording). This way it would not rely completely on other cards being in the kingdom.


Agreed.  I really like the interaction of this card to discard attacks and deliberate discard strategies (Tac, Vault, Secret Chamber).  Even though it needs wording clarifications, those are easily fixed within the spirit of the card.  Plus, I really like the mechanic (it seems generally useful, not really redundant with other cards).
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2012, 09:44:42 pm »
0

Some more comments. Will do the Action-Victory types later.

Victory-Reactions:

I don't think this set needs another Victory card that counts Treasures -- Musuem already does that quite well. So Sturges is out for me. (Also, when you gain a card, take as many Coppers as you like! No, thanks. I misread this part. Because of the "instead" you can only gain one Copper.)

On Trumbo:

...you have accountability issues when shuffling.

Agreed.

Puzo disincentivizes trashing too much.

Quote
Helgeland
$5 - Victory-Reaction
1 VP
--
Whenever a player buys a non-victory card, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.
 

This is one I want to like, but don't think I do. On the face of it, the reaction seems really strong in multi-player since you can gain from anyone and there is no cost limit. But then again, you can't get Victory cards.

Also, you have to reveal and discard at the moment of purchase, so you can't say "wait a minute, I forgot to reveal this!" after seeing all the purchases made by an opponent. Waiting to see if people want to reveal this card could really slow the game down. I think I would like it better if it wasn't a reaction, but an on-play super-Smugglers that gained any one card your opponents bought or gained and you had to trash (not discard) this card.

Treasure-Victory:

Towne and Ephron both try to balance the +$2, 1VP card, and I don't think either really succeeds (Towne is too board dependent, and Ephron is too strong). I agree that Towne would be more interesting with a +Buy. And Goyer is another Treaure counting VP that is inferior to Museum.

Attacks:

Quote
Allen
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.

As far as attacks go, I like this. But I am also confused why it's not just "discard a card; if you do...." I just hope the VP is thematically relevent with the card title and not just an add-on.

Simon, Robinson: don't care for them.

Durations:

Quote
Lehman
$3 - Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1VP.  If the game ends while this is in play, worth 8 VP instead.
--
Now: +1 Buy.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

This is a cool idea. Way too big of a VP bump, as others have noted. It's too easy to get some of these in play in games where you can build an engine that draws your whole deck. Also, the duration ability could simply read "Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 BUy." I kind of would like to see a +1 Action on it, too, with a lower VP bump. I would be likely to play the card more often that way.

Quote
Zaillian
$6 - Action-Duration-Victory
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP

Cool duration card. Less cool dual type card. I am going to give it the benefit of the doubt and imagine the VP is thematic.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 09:54:49 am by Polk5440 »
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2012, 10:00:30 pm »
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Puzo disincentivizes trashing too much.

What's wrong with disincentivizing trashing, though?
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PenPen

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2012, 08:09:27 am »
+1


I don't think this set needs another Victory card that counts Treasures -- Musuem already does that quite well. So Sturges is out for me. (Also, when you gain a card, take as many Coppers as you like! No, thanks.)


For Sturges you can only gain a Copper. Obviously you can reveal it again when you're getting the Copper, but that original Copper isn't gained as a result (instead you gain another Copper). So no matter how many times you reveal it, you'd still gain a Copper.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2012, 09:15:20 am »
0

Here's my evaluations of all the cards, including mine. I tried to be constructive in my criticisms where I could be.

Sturges
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 2 VP if you have the most Copper cards in your deck compared to other players (a tie for most would qualify as well).
--
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Copper. You may discard this card to put the Copper into your hand.

This is very weak. If you don't win the Copper race, this card isn't even worth $0. I would guess this would rarely, if ever, be purchased.

Allen
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.

The discarding non-Treasure and non-Action cards is a bit weird - wouldn't those be the cards you want to discard anyway? This card is probably on-par with the power of Witch, and maybe stronger.

Trumbo
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 1 VP plus an additional 1 VP for each Randomizer card you have.
--
Whenever a supply pile becomes empty, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put that pile's randomizer card on top of that pile (if that card is still outside the game).
--
(Rule clarifications: This card counts the number of Randomizer cards that you have in your deck. Randomizer cards are not normally used in play, but using this card's Reaction ability can put them in the supply. A Randomizer card in the supply can be gained or bought just like any other card in the supply.)

This is one of the most unique mechanics I've ever seen on a fan card. Using randomizers within the game sounds like a great idea. But, this particular use of the mechanic sounds super-weak. At most, Trumbo will be worth 3VP in most normal games, making it barely worth the hassle. Still, I might give this card a vote for the sheer novelty of it. I'd love to see the randomizers-as-cards mechanic used on some other card.

Mankiewicz
$5 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), gain a [Support Card], putting it in your hand.
Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Buy.
--
This card is worth 1 VP for each [Support Card] in your deck.
Setup: Add [Support Card] to the supply.
.
.
[Support Card]
$4* - Action
+1 Action
+$1
If you have 3 or more [Support Card]s in play (counting this), +1 VP.
--
Setup: Do not include this in the Randomizer deck. Only add it to the supply if [This Card] is in the Kingdom.
--
(Rule clarifications: [Support Card] cannot be bought or gained except by playing a [This Card].)

I have no problem with this sort of support-card idea. But, it seems very difficult to make Mankiewicz work more than a few times except for on certain boards. And on those boards, it is probably overly-dominant. So, I think there are balance issues here.

Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.

The +VP for Estates in the supply doesn't jive with the attack that gives out Estates. Plus, you have to be careful with Estate-giving attacks, because Estates run out fast, especially in multiplayer games.

Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.

I don't like how disconnected and unrelated the two possibilities of this card are. It has other issues as well, such as multiple people revealing these at once and the weirdness of it being different depending on the rest of the Kingdom.

Towne
$4 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2
Worth 1 VP
--
When this card is in play, if possible you must use all of your buys.

I've seen this "must use all your buys" thing before, and have never been a fan. Especially on a card that doesn't give +Buys, this is weird.

Hecht
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)

I'd recommend the wording, "At the start of your next Buy phase, play this card" in order to clarify weird things like the card being discarded during the Buy phase. Otherwise, interesting card! It may be too powerful for a $5 Silver, but it might be just-right. I like the synergy of the ideas.

Puzo
$4 - Victory-Reaction
2 VP
--
When another player trashes a card, you may set this aside from your hand.  If you do, he gains a Curse.  At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand.

Both too situational and too strong when the situation occurs.

Seaton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
Trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
When another player plays a [This Card], you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Gain a copy of one of the revealed Treasures, putting it into your hand, then discard the revealed cards.
--
(Rules clarification: you may trash a [This Card] to itself, and must if you have no other Treasures in play)

Way too strong for $4. This card is better in almost every way than Loan - choose what to trash, get to play the trashed card first, worth $2, plus a strong reaction to boot. The reaction seems a bit tacked-on, or at least unrelated to the rest of the card.

Kaufman
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
1 VP

Haha, I considered submitting this card, and I'm sure many others have conceived of it before. I'm guessing it's balanced, and it's the type of thing I wouldn't be surprised to see in a regular set, but it's a bit bland for a contest. Part of me wishes this were Great Hall instead of the real one.

Benton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack; return [This Card] to the supply and gain a Silver, putting it in your hand.

I like the mechanic here, though it should probably cost $5 - as others have said, Silver+ at $4 is usually just as easy to buy as Silver. Also, this pile will likely never run out, which is a little weird.

Diamond
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.

Hmm, not sure if this is overpowered, underpowered, or just-right. With this in your hand, it's just as good to leave it in your hand and buy an Estate as it is to buy a Duchy using it. I think I like it!

Lehman
$3 - Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1VP.  If the game ends while this is in play, worth 8 VP instead.
--
Now: +1 Buy.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

Way too swingy. Very random whether you can end the game with these out or not. Also, for those interested in this mechanic, it is important to note that the game ends at the end of the players turn when an end condition happens. So, if you end the game and have a Lehman left out from last turn, it will be discarded during your Clean-up phase before the game ends.

Brackett
$7 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$3
You may discard a Copper. If you don't, gain a Copper, putting it on your deck.
--
Worth 2 VP

Very hard to tell whether this is balanced or not without much playtesting. My guess is that it's too strong. Plus, the VP seem to be just tacked on. The rest of the card at $5 may be more interesting.

Kasdan
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards into your hand and put the rest back on top in any order.
--
When another player plays an Attack you may discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Discard any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards, then put one into your hand and the rest back on top in any order.

Stronger than Scout, so obviously OP. [/joke] For reals, this is a Scout variant that is a Treasure, only looks at 3 cards, and also gives you Curses. This part, without the reaction, is very weak, maybe worse than Scout. The reaction is stronger than playing the card itself, which is a bit off-putting. I don't think this is buyable without attacks, and is possibly too strong with certain attacks.

Hughes
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.

Hmmm. The non-reaction part is essentially a Peddler that can't later play Actions with the ability to top-deck a card. The reaction is confusing and probably usually better than Watchtower. Overall, too convoluted and probably too strong.

Zaillian
$6 - Action-Duration-Victory
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP

A Peddler this turn and next turn, along with a Lab next turn, and +1 VP? Probably too strong, even at $6. Plus the VP seems tacked-on; I think I'd prefer the rest of the card without it, probably still at $6.

Monahan
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
If you have unused Actions (not Action cards), this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $2.
--
When you play an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and +1 Action.
--
(Rules clarifications: To use the Reaction effect of this card, you must discard it after playing an Action card but before resolving the effects on that Action card, in much the same way that one reveals Reactions to the Attack cards of other players prior to them resolving the effects of the Attack card.)

The anti-Diadem. Actually, this seems pretty balanced as it can essentially be used as +2 Actions or (hopefully) a Silver, depending on what you need it to do. Even giving that flexibility, it may be a bit weak.

Gaghan
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Gain a [This Card].
--
Worth 2 VP

This card floods a deck with itself, which isn't that great, but also gives you points, which is nice. Actually seems pretty balanced to me, though not super interesting. I'd guess that these would slow you down enough to not want them until near the end. Still, not a bad card!

Sorkin
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $3
If an opponent plays an Attack, reveal [This Card] from your hand.  Gain a copy of the Attack card and trash [This Card] from your hand.

Holy nose hair clippers Batman! This card is WAY overpowered considering the reaction is not mandatory (unless you did something funny with the back, which would also be bad).

Robinson
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+2 Cards
Opponents with 4 or more cards in hand discard a card.  If any Victory or $0-cost cards were discarded, gain a token on the [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two tokens (rounded down) on the [This Card] mat at the end of the game.

This card may actually be weak as-stated. Weak vanilla bonus and weak attack probably don't make up for the ability to (slowly) get VP. It also has some multiplayer politics issues (as in "Hey, if you don't discard an Estate this time neither will I, and then you can discard an Estate when I play it on my turn").

Pierson
$6 - Action-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Pick one: Gain a Silver in hand; or Gain a Gold and a Copper.

I like the simplicity here. Not as simple as the comparable Harem, but not much more complex. I think this might actually be slightly weaker than Harem, since it is a terminal Action, but the options might make it slightly stronger. Super strong with Watchtower or Trader.

Cody
$5 - Action-Victory
Reveal your hand.  +1 Action for each differently named Victory card in play and in your hand, including this one.
--
Worth 1 VP for each differently named Action card that your deck contains two copies of, including this one.
--
(Rules clarification:  For instance, if your final deck contains 5 copies of [This Card], 2 Markets, 1 Menagerie, and no other actions, each [This Card] is worth 2 VP: 1 each for the pair of Markets and more than two copies of [This Card], but nothing for the single Menagerie.)

This is obviously strongest in a big engine. Mechanics-wise, this seems to be pretty sound, and possibly balanced. The Action portion is very weak - it will usually net you 2 Actions at most. But, the Victory portion is pretty strong on some boards. Overall, pretty good. Wording issues here - it's probably unnecessary to have the "including this one" clauses. And ugg, you ended a clause in a preposition. Change to "Worth 1 VP for each differently named Action that has 2 copies in your deck."

Nugent
$5 - Treasure/Reaction
Worth $3
-$1 for each card remaining in your hand when this card is played, but not less than 0.
+1 Buy
--
If one of the other players has no cards in his hand at any point except the clean-up phase of their turn, you may trash this card, gaining a Duchy on top of your deck.

Probably extremely weak, except for some very rare circumstances in which it is just ok. You'd need a very trim engine, or maybe Vault or Secret Chamber, to make this actually work well.

Goyer
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $1
--
When you discard this from play, you may trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
Worth 1 VP for every $2 (rounded down) in the cost of the Treasure card you have the most copies of in your deck (the most expensive card if there is a tie).

So... this is worth 0VP if you have the most Coppers, 1VP for Silvers, 2 for Goyers, and 3 for Golds (and 4 for Platinums). I tell you what, the Victory portion seems very weak, and I'm not sure how much the Copper + trash a Treasure in play is worth, but I'm guessing not much more than Loan. All together it could be correctly priced at $5, but I'm guessing it's too weak.

Mamet
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. Discard it or put it back.
--
When another player plays an Attack card you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order. If you discarded any cards this way, either discard or trash this.

I think both the cost, worth, and reaction parts of Hecht are more interesting with the same topdeck filtering mechanic. I don't really see the need to discard this when you play it as a Reaction - if you want it to only be played once, set it aside and pick it up at the beginning of your turn like Horse Traders. Otherwise, it would often not be worth giving up $1+ to discard from the three cards.

Crowe
$4 - Action-Victory
Trash two cards.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash (round down).

I don't especially like counting cards in the trash, for two reasons. One, they are shared by everyone, so if you put in the effort to trash lots of differently named cards, then someone can just piggyback and buy these too. Two, it might make people think too much about what they trash (or get back from the trash (hi DA)) to affect how much these are worth. Also, see the secret history of Seaside for a similar card that Donald X. rejected.

Foote
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $0
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand, +$1; or trash this card immediately, +$2.
--
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, trash the discarded card.

I don't think either the treasure or the reaction parts warrant this card costing $4. In fact, it would probably be a weak $3, since it gives slow trashing or trashes itself. May even be weaker than Loan, though it does trash Estates.

Darabont
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a card, you may set aside the gained card if this card is in play or you reveal this from your hand.  Return the set aside card to your deck at the end of the game.

This is a very strong reaction to use when buying Victory cards, so this should probably cost $5. Plus, I see the reaction rarely happening when this card isn't in play - only for gainers really. You could easily just make this a $5 Treasure only card and have it optionally take affect when played, like Royal Seal. Even then, it's probably better than Royal Seal.

Howard
$4 - Action-Victory
Either trash up to 2 cards from your hand or move a card from the trash to your [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 cards on your [This Card] mat.

Like Crowe, except that the counting for VP isn't shared with other players. There may be an issue with playing these out forever, but it seems less likely than Monument or Bishop. This probably isn't a power card, but may be good in openings similar to Steward. Seems balanced.

Greene
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Choose one: +$1 or +1 Buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, in your buy phase play this twice.
--
(Rules clarification: If you set this aside in your buy phase, you immediately play it twice.)

If you have this in your hand and buy another card, it could be used to give $3 toward another buy (since you can play it twice for +$3, +1 Buy). It may be too strong when you already have multiple buys that you want to use (a $5 that gives +$4!). I like the idea, but am afraid that it is too good.

Odets
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
+1 Buy
+$1
--
Whenever you buy a card, you may reveal and discard this card from your hand. If you do, every other player gains a copy of the bought card instead of you.

First off, I'm not a fan of these treasures that have a reaction that would mostly be used if you don't play the treasure. This one in particular seems way too powerful, as it can be combined with any +Buy to make a curser. Sure, you have to discard it, so you probably can't do many multiple curses at once, but you could surely give a few.

McQuarrie
$3 - Action-Victory
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  You may discard up to one card.  Put the rest back in any order.
+2 Cards
--
If a Victory supply pile other than Provinces or Colonies is empty, this is worth 2 VP.  Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

The Action portion is very similar to (and maybe slightly stronger than) Oracle without Oracle's attack. The Victory portion is very weak. What pile would run out - this one? Likely not. Duchies or Estates? Rarely. So, the question is whether or not this weak Victory condition makes up for not having Oracle's attack, and I would guess that it doesn't, making this card too weak. But, it's pretty close to balanced.

Ephron
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2 and 1 VP
--
When you gain or play this, look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  You may discard any number of them.  Put the rest on top of the deck in any order.

Similar to Harem, but I think the real comparison is to $5 Silvers like Royal Seal and Stash. Given, these two are in the bottom tier of $5 cards, but let's make the comparison. I would say the gain-or-play part of this card is better than Stash, and about equal to Royal Seal. Above that, Ephron gives 1 VP. So, I think this card is too strong, though maybe not broken-strong. I think it would be much more interesting if the sifting was only on-gain.

Sherwood
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than the Attack card that is not a [This Card], putting it into your hand.

I think most of the time this would be used to gain Silvers. Probably not overpowered compared to other $4 Silver-gainers, though it does have the option of gaining other cards. I'm not sure why it is "gain a card costing less than this" instead of "gain a card costing up to $3", since the edge cases will be very rare. The Reaction is nice, though it may make people think twice about playing cards like Ghost Ship, since you'll only have to put 1 card on your deck plus you get a $4 card. Still, I think it's balanced and interesting!

Brooks
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.

Seems like a boring and unbalanced Fool's Gold. It's only worth having when someone buys a Victory card. Pass.

Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)

Unfortunately I think this is out-classed by Hecht, both in wording and mechanics. Otherwise, pretty decent idea, though you'd prefer to discard it than play it.

Helgeland
$5 - Victory-Reaction
1 VP
--
Whenever a player buys a non-victory card, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.

At first I wasn't sure if I like this card, but I think I do! The ability to use it on yourself to double your buy is very Talisman-like, and to use it on others is Smugglers-esque. My only concern is the AP it may cause deciding to reveal it or not, plus being sad later if you use it too soon. Let's say your opponent has 2 buys and $8. He spends $3 on a Silver - do you take it, or hope to get the $5 buy instead? What if he buys a Duchy instead? Plus, you would have to pause after every buy to have others decide whether they want to play this or not. So, I'm on the edge - good idea, but maybe bad for physical playing.

Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

Scout, is that you? This seems like a Scout that doesn't draw as much, discards instead of puts in hand, accepts Curses, and has a bonus if you're "lucky". Oh, and can be worth 1 VP. I think the bonus is a bit too luck-driven, and the VP seems unimportant and tacked-on.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2012, 09:37:24 am »
+1

Couple quick general notes. One, if the card has a type, I want to have a reason for it to have that type, and not feel tacked on for the contest. Second, and more important, just because you can make a balanced card, doesn't mean you should I think. This is perhaps most evident here on the victory cards, where you can say, make a peddler with a VP tacked on, and it's quite reasonably balanced at 5, but... the VP there makes for very few interesting gameplay decisions. You aren't really buying the card for the VP, and it's pretty clear when you would want this over something like a market, and when you'd prefer the other - and actually, market is one of the more interesting choice points; highway, treasury, are worse. And this effect is worse on 2-3-4 cost ranges, because there's really not much difference at all in the pricepoints - silver that has 1 VP is a really terrible card to print at 4, and not a very good card at 5. Well, stuff can just be boring too. And you can get the same effect sometimes with treasure, or slapping a moat reaction on something, etc.
On to the cards!
Sturges
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 2 VP if you have the most Copper cards in your deck compared to other players (a tie for most would qualify as well).
--
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Copper. You may discard this card to put the Copper into your hand.
This card is just so, so bad. It's.... sometimes worth 2, if your deck is crap? And you can turn junking attacks into... slightly not as bad junking attacks? I mean, I guess if you are going for this, you can probably make it worth two, but it just gets so outclassed by tunnel there. Sooooo outclassed.

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Allen
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.
Someone was comparing this to a duchy. I don't think that's how you want to look at this. I think you want to look at this as a cursing attack. And this is a cursing attack, huzzah. And a lot a lot weaker than the other cursing attacks that come at 5. It's even a much much weaker attack than sea hag or young witch. Waaay weaker. But it gives you 2 VP, and those are really strong. On the other hand, you, if you get lucky, clog them, but you're clogged yourself. So you have some VP... dare I say, this looks like a weak-ish curser? And ought this not be an attack?

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Goldman
$4 - Action-Duration
+$4
At the start of your next turn, discard a card.

I am not sure whether like the card above this, this is purposely struck through or not, but I'm going to call too strong anyway. Compare to baron, it gives no buy, is a duration, and has a lot more flexibility on the discard (also does that later, which is nice), or compare to merchant ship, and it ought to be about as good, really close to as good, at 4 instead of 5. Would be fine, if it cost 5.

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Trumbo
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 1 VP plus an additional 1 VP for each Randomizer card you have.
--
Whenever a supply pile becomes empty, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put that pile's randomizer card on top of that pile (if that card is still outside the game).
--
(Rule clarifications: This card counts the number of Randomizer cards that you have in your deck. Randomizer cards are not normally used in play, but using this card's Reaction ability can put them in the supply. A Randomizer card in the supply can be gained or bought just like any other card in the supply.)
Oh, I do think this card is really bad. So, forget the randomizer thing, that you don't want bluebacks in your deck, for a second. Unless you get province off this, it's basically an estate that has an extremely small chance of being very mildly more useful, cost 3. This would be really weak at 2, and yeah yeah, estate is worse, but mugh.

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Mankiewicz
$5 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), gain a [Support Card], putting it in your hand.
Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Buy.
--
This card is worth 1 VP for each [Support Card] in your deck.
Setup: Add [Support Card] to the supply.
.
.
[Support Card]
$4* - Action
+1 Action
+$1
If you have 3 or more [Support Card]s in play (counting this), +1 VP.
--
Setup: Do not include this in the Randomizer deck. Only add it to the supply if [This Card] is in the Kingdom.
--
(Rule clarifications: [Support Card] cannot be bought or gained except by playing a [This Card].)
FBI, totally. So much work to get this up means it's totally worthless like almost all the time. And in those rare circumstances it isn't, it's got to be like totally broken.

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Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.
Now this is quite interesting. It's a mountebank attack, except with estates, and with +3 cards. Now +3 cards has to be better than +$2, but the attack is so so so much weaker, because that's +1 VP, it's way way way easier to moat, and later on, they will actually take the thing to pad their VP. But then there is this victory part to it, and... maybe that balances it. I am trying to think how this compares to nobles, and... I think it will probably be worth about the same amount of points, especially net, and you have the attack vs the actions option. Ok, I think this might actually be fine. A touch weak, if anything, but fine.

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Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.
Hate everything about the 'when an opponent trashes a card' thing.

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Towne
$4 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2
Worth 1 VP
--
When this card is in play, if possible you must use all of your buys.
This is too good for BM, where you don't have spare buys anyway, and then, engines don't really care much either. This is not much drawback.......

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Hecht
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)
Love it. For an increase in price from silver, you get... the slight filter - which it actually doesn't need, I think - the ability to haven itself, the ability to combo with anything discardy, including defraying a class of attacks. Maybe a bit strong even.

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Puzo
$4 - Victory-Reaction
2 VP
--
When another player trashes a card, you may set this aside from your hand.  If you do, he gains a Curse.  At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand.
Don't really like the reacting to trash being the main point of the card, when that is so rare. I also don't like how it curses.

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Seaton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
Trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
When another player plays a [This Card], you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Gain a copy of one of the revealed Treasures, putting it into your hand, then discard the revealed cards.
--
(Rules clarification: you may trash a [This Card] to itself, and must if you have no other Treasures in play)
Reaction seems weird and tacked on, seems probably too much better than silver at 4.

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Kaufman
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
1 VP
So yeah, this has the issue I talked about off the top.

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Benton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack; return [This Card] to the supply and gain a Silver, putting it in your hand.
Too much outclasses silver, and is also boring.

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Diamond
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.
Somehow I don't like this. I think it might be a good bit FBI, and I don't really see it opening up many interesting decisions.

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Lehman
$3 - Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1VP.  If the game ends while this is in play, worth 8 VP instead.
--
Now: +1 Buy.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.
Interesting concept, but 8 is WAY too much. This card just almost says, an engine wins the game.

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Brackett
$7 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$3
You may discard a Copper. If you don't, gain a Copper, putting it on your deck.
--
Worth 2 VP
Seems too good.

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Kasdan
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards into your hand and put the rest back on top in any order.
--
When another player plays an Attack you may discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Discard any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards, then put one into your hand and the rest back on top in any order.
Another scout variant. Again seems weak.

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Hughes
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.
Seems pretty darn good for big money. The whole reaction bit seems weird.

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Zaillian
$6 - Action-Duration-Victory
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP
Peddler now, lab-and-peddler later, worth a VP, probably actually weak - could cost 5 - and the VP seems tacked on.

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Monahan
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
If you have unused Actions (not Action cards), this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $2.
--
When you play an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and +1 Action.
--
(Rules clarifications: To use the Reaction effect of this card, you must discard it after playing an Action card but before resolving the effects on that Action card, in much the same way that one reveals Reactions to the Attack cards of other players prior to them resolving the effects of the Attack card.)
So, this can be a terrible terrible village, which isn't worth getting for that deffect.... basically ever, or it can be a worse-than-silver card for BM. Seems veeeeeeeerry weak.

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Gaghan
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Gain a [This Card].
--
Worth 2 VP
This is a bit interesting, but on the other hand, most likely it's just a card you can use in VP rushes, a duchy sub in mid-late game, or a I-didn't-hit-5. Not great, but not SO bad.

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Sorkin
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $3
If an opponent plays an Attack, reveal [This Card] from your hand.  Gain a copy of the Attack card and trash [This Card] from your hand.
So this has accountability issues. And even if htat wasn't a problem, it's too strong for sure.

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Robinson
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+2 Cards
Opponents with 4 or more cards in hand discard a card.  If any Victory or $0-cost cards were discarded, gain a token on the [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two tokens (rounded down) on the [This Card] mat at the end of the game.
FBI, I think, or maybe this is just too good. I don't like it.

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Pierson
$6 - Action-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Pick one: Gain a Silver in hand; or Gain a Gold and a Copper.
This is a card that I don't think you can really cost right. You gain the silver almost every time, and then the 2 VP don't really do THAT much for you, over like explorer, which is a weak 5.

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Cody
$5 - Action-Victory
Reveal your hand.  +1 Action for each differently named Victory card in play and in your hand, including this one.
--
Worth 1 VP for each differently named Action card that your deck contains two copies of, including this one.
--
(Rules clarification:  For instance, if your final deck contains 5 copies of [This Card], 2 Markets, 1 Menagerie, and no other actions, each [This Card] is worth 2 VP: 1 each for the pair of Markets and more than two copies of [This Card], but nothing for the single Menagerie.)
An innovative card, which makes it hard to judge. I am not so sure about the actions ramping up, I don't know, seems of marginal utility. And then the vp, could be a LOT in an engine, never going to be much for big money. Weird thing is that if there's no other green cards you have, the action does nothing for you, but uh, the victory part screams to build engines. An alt VP for engines, strikes me that I don't like it, but objectively, should probably be fairly fun.

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Nugent
$5 - Treasure/Reaction
Worth $3
-$1 for each card remaining in your hand when this card is played, but not less than 0.
+1 Buy
--
If one of the other players has no cards in his hand at any point except the clean-up phase of their turn, you may trash this card, gaining a Duchy on top of your deck.
The reaction part seems a little weird, and like it will be able to get you a duchy fairly often, which makes this too good. Also, I don't know about the top mechanic. It's cute, but I don't know how much it does in practicality.

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Goyer
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $1
--
When you discard this from play, you may trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
Worth 1 VP for every $2 (rounded down) in the cost of the Treasure card you have the most copies of in your deck (the most expensive card if there is a tie).
So you can use this to trash copper, like a non-terminal moneylender except with less benefit, which seems awfully weak... unless you can get it to kick in, but then, silvers are almost always going to take over and just make this worth 1, so it still seems a touch weak. Maybe this can cost 4, really. I think it probably can.

Quote
Mamet
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. Discard it or put it back.
--
When another player plays an Attack card you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order. If you discarded any cards this way, either discard or trash this.
The top is so bad. That slight deck-filter is not worth getting a copper. The reaction is a bit nicer I guess, but so situational. And I am always going to want to trash this, because it's weak. If I wanted to keep it for some reason, that drawback further cripples this, though otherwise it's just reorder your deck almost at will, so it NEEDS it.

Quote
Crowe
$4 - Action-Victory
Trash two cards.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash (round down).
The trashing is so much weaker than all kinds of other cards, like remake. And so you can compare this to steward, where this becomes fairly useless but gives you... probably one, sometimes 2 VP, and that helps you with the engine you probably want to build. I'm gonna say steward is better, and this should cost 3 with no big problems.

Quote
Foote
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $0
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand, +$1; or trash this card immediately, +$2.
--
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, trash the discarded card.
So this lets you trash stuff that you probably didn't want, and that's nice. Or this is a slow trasher, but non-terminal, and giving a little money, that gets rid or itself for a little bigger burst. I like it.

Quote
Darabont
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a card, you may set aside the gained card if this card is in play or you reveal this from your hand.  Return the set aside card to your deck at the end of the game.
Better-than-silver-at-4 is not really good. I think I would like it on a 5-cost, an interesting compliment to royal seal. Though, it's not really broken here I don't think.

Quote
Howard
$4 - Action-Victory
Either trash up to 2 cards from your hand or move a card from the trash to your [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 cards on your [This Card] mat.
Compares to Crowe, a lot, and I think I have the same issues here, though this is a bit better.

Quote
Greene
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Choose one: +$1 or +1 Buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, in your buy phase play this twice.
--
(Rules clarification: If you set this aside in your buy phase, you immediately play it twice.)
The reaction is a bit weird. Without it, it's a pretty weak but fine 5, with it... well, it's good against junking attacks, and really good with gainers. I'm not sure about it - turns into a better-than-4 treasure....

Quote
Odets
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
+1 Buy
+$1
--
Whenever you buy a card, you may reveal and discard this card from your hand. If you do, every other player gains a copy of the bought card instead of you.
This lets you turn your buy into a cursing attack, which is really weak, if you don't have extra buys floating about (you can't play this AND react with it), and really really strong if there are. I think that makes it a little FBI?

Quote
McQuarrie
$3 - Action-Victory
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  You may discard up to one card.  Put the rest back in any order.
+2 Cards
--
If a Victory supply pile other than Provinces or Colonies is empty, this is worth 2 VP.  Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.
If you can activate this, it's really really good. If you can't it's a bit weak, though not that terrible anyway. I don't like the either-or concept so much in general, or here particularly, but I do like the action part. I don't get how the halves tie together though.

Quote
Ephron
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2 and 1 VP
--
When you gain or play this, look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  You may discard any number of them.  Put the rest on top of the deck in any order.
The cartographer effect I think pushes this to being... well I would say too strong, but... well yeah, pretty strong. I think you could do either or with that and the VP, I am skeptical on both. But hey, a strong treasure card isn't the end of the world.

Quote
Sherwood
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than the Attack card that is not a [This Card], putting it into your hand.
The reaction seems really narrow. It's good if there's like a discard attack, or... goons? Or I guess a 5 attack and you want a 4 other than this. Besides that, you are chumping a money on your next turn for nothing. Compares to bureaucrat. Seems fine.

Quote
Brooks
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.
So so so bad early on. Can be very good late, but seems sorta swingy in that regard. You want to try to time buying this in that weird narrow point just before greening.

Quote
Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)
The rules clarification is all fuzzy but doesn't actually work. i mean, it's nice that you intend that, but +$2 does NOT mean that. Okay, let's assume it works as intended. Then this has decent interactions with discard effects, is totally worthless otherwise (unlike tunnel!), so I don't like it.

Quote
Helgeland
$5 - Victory-Reaction
1 VP
--
Whenever a player buys a non-victory card, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.
I like this. Smugglers looks like the comparison, but you can do this on yourself too, so maybe it's more like HoP. The VP restriction prevents you from going massive, but also stockpiling these really easy. I like it.

Quote
Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.
So it's exceptional against a rabble chain. Otherwise, it's terrible, unless you get the rare situation of a pile drive on these or estates. Actually think it would be more interesting if it were 1 VP for every sub-3-cost empty pile, so you could scale it up.

Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2012, 09:42:43 am »
0

Puzo disincentivizes trashing too much.

What's wrong with disincentivizing trashing, though?

Nothing in principle. I just think this card penalizes it too heavily. In a multi-player this could easily lead to a person getting 2, 3 or 4 Curses at once when he trashes a card. And Puzo goes back into your hand on your turn, which means you could curse somebody, play a card like Bishop or Governor that has a trashing externality and curse AGAIN with the same card (and people would know you have it, so it's almost like the externality is wiped off of those cards). Puzo + Saboteur = disaster for a player of your choice (could be bad politics), and you don't even need two actions to play the combo. AND Puzo goes back into your hand next turn. I could easily see most boards with Puzo having a dominant strategy of never trashing. And, for me, where there's no interesting decision, there's no fun.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2012, 09:53:31 am »
0


I don't think this set needs another Victory card that counts Treasures -- Musuem already does that quite well. So Sturges is out for me. (Also, when you gain a card, take as many Coppers as you like! No, thanks.)


For Sturges you can only gain a Copper. Obviously you can reveal it again when you're getting the Copper, but that original Copper isn't gained as a result (instead you gain another Copper). So no matter how many times you reveal it, you'd still gain a Copper.

Good catch -- I missed the "instead." Will edit my post.
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2012, 10:13:04 am »
0

By the way, does anyone read through all of the comments that people make, or do they just look through to find their own card's comments? I made detailed comments for the first time here, and it was definitely more time consuming than my usual methods of voting. But if people read them, I'm happy to make them.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2012, 10:29:03 am »
+1

By the way, does anyone read through all of the comments that people make, or do they just look through to find their own card's comments? I made detailed comments for the first time here, and it was definitely more time consuming than my usual methods of voting. But if people read them, I'm happy to make them.
I read them all.

PenPen

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2012, 10:41:34 am »
0

By the way, does anyone read through all of the comments that people make, or do they just look through to find their own card's comments? I made detailed comments for the first time here, and it was definitely more time consuming than my usual methods of voting. But if people read them, I'm happy to make them.

I submitted my card (which is getting totally ripped to shreds here  :P) but I try to read what everyone thought of the cards if possible.  I'd find my card first and then read the other entries too to see how other cards fare.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2012, 10:51:41 am »
+1

I read them all....eventually. When making my comments/forming opinions about the cards, I show all pages of the thread at once and search the comments by card name to get a sense of what others are thinking about a card. After I make my comments, I skim the thread straight through and follow closely the comments on cards I like and my card.
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Titandrake

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2012, 12:16:59 pm »
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Brooks triggers off any player, so you could use it kinda like Hoard. Brooks in hand + 2 Copper = Gold next turn. Still deciding whether that's balanced or not...

Will post more comments when I have the time.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2012, 12:34:11 pm »
0

By the way, does anyone read through all of the comments that people make, or do they just look through to find their own card's comments? I made detailed comments for the first time here, and it was definitely more time consuming than my usual methods of voting. But if people read them, I'm happy to make them.

I used to read them all.  Now I'm more selective, but I try to read at least person's analysis of all the cards - usually a player I know is highly ranked on iso.
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2012, 02:53:16 pm »
0

What is "FBI"? Addressed in the other thread, never mind.
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Kirian

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2012, 02:55:46 pm »
+1

By the way, does anyone read through all of the comments that people make, or do they just look through to find their own card's comments? I made detailed comments for the first time here, and it was definitely more time consuming than my usual methods of voting. But if people read them, I'm happy to make them.

I used to read them all.  Now I'm more selective, but I try to read at least person's analysis of all the cards - usually a player I know is highly ranked on iso.

Oh sure, like he knows anything!

:p
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2012, 06:39:09 pm »
0

By the way, does anyone read through all of the comments that people make, or do they just look through to find their own card's comments? I made detailed comments for the first time here, and it was definitely more time consuming than my usual methods of voting. But if people read them, I'm happy to make them.

I used to read them all.  Now I'm more selective, but I try to read at least person's analysis of all the cards - usually a player I know is highly ranked on iso.

Oh sure, like he knows anything!

:p
Who is "he" referring to?  I avoided naming names. 
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2012, 07:01:55 pm »
+1

By the way, does anyone read through all of the comments that people make, or do they just look through to find their own card's comments? I made detailed comments for the first time here, and it was definitely more time consuming than my usual methods of voting. But if people read them, I'm happy to make them.

I used to read them all.  Now I'm more selective, but I try to read at least person's analysis of all the cards - usually a player I know is highly ranked on iso.

Oh sure, like he knows anything!

:p
Who is "he" referring to?  I avoided naming names.

You-Know-Who.  He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named (It's all in good fun. I'm not calling anyone Voldemort... really)

Edit: I removed my speculation and inserted this.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 07:15:46 pm by nopawnsintended »
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2012, 11:04:29 pm »
0

My remaining comments:

Action-Victories:

Quote
Kaufman
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
1 VP

This is the dual type to beat. So simple. Village+VP. Cards will have to beat this to earn an approval vote from me. I was *this close* to submitting this card, but I kind of figured I wasted my terminal silver entry last week because I couldn't think of anything better than a literal termninal Silver. So I submitted something else. It's not clear if my submission is actually better than this.... 

Mankiewicz, Brackett: Agree with previous comments.

On Gaghan, I agree with One Armed Man; seems too good for alt VP:
It doesn't need the +1 Action. It is too strong with it, giving a player a chance to get up to 16 points in 2P unimpeded, causing a piles ending.

Pierson: Simple, but I would rather play with Harem.

Quote
Cody
$5 - Action-Victory
Reveal your hand.  +1 Action for each differently named Victory card in play and in your hand, including this one.
--
Worth 1 VP for each differently named Action card that your deck contains two copies of, including this one.
--
(Rules clarification:  For instance, if your final deck contains 5 copies of [This Card], 2 Markets, 1

Menagerie, and no other actions, each [This Card] is worth 2 VP: 1 each for the pair of Markets and more than two

copies of [This Card], but nothing for the single Menagerie.)


I like this card. It would add another village-style card to the set and it is different enough from Vineyards in how it counts actions. Whenever I want a Victory card that cares about engines, I wouldn't need to have Potions in play :).

Quote
Crowe
$4 - Action-Victory
Trash two cards.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash (round down).
The trashing is so much weaker than all kinds of other cards, like remake. And so you can compare this to steward, where this becomes fairly useless but gives you... probably one, sometimes 2 VP, and that helps you with the engine you probably want to build. I'm gonna say steward is better, and this should cost 3 with no big problems.

Agreed. Interesting, though. I like it better than Howard because it uses a common mat that already exists -- the Trash! But, the point made by Schneau that Donald rejected a similar card is well taken:

Crowe
$4 - Action-Victory
Trash two cards.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash (round down).

I don't especially like counting cards in the trash, for two reasons. One, they are shared by everyone, so if you put in the effort to trash lots of differently named cards, then someone can just piggyback and buy these too. Two, it might make people think too much about what they trash (or get back from the trash (hi DA)) to affect how much these are worth. Also, see the secret history of Seaside for a similar card that Donald X. rejected.

Maybe my preference doesn't line up with play testing reality on this one....

Quote
McQuarrie
$3 - Action-Victory
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  You may discard up to one card.  Put the rest back in any order.
+2 Cards
--
If a Victory supply pile other than Provinces or Colonies is empty, this is worth 2 VP.  Otherwise, this is worth 0

VP.

I love how this has a Canal-like ability on it! (But then, I would, wouldn't I?) Seems balanced to me.

Quote
Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck

in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

Because Pressburger is a Victory card itself, it being in your deck helps trigger its own money bonus. The bonus is most likely to be triggered when you are going for alt VP or it's a heavy Cursing game (or both!). Combos with Cartographer and other top-deck reordering cards (but NOT Scout) giving you a reason to leave the green on top. It's a $2 card, so it being good only in particular situations makes sense. 

I really like the above line ability, but the card would be just as good with 0VP below the line. It would still combo with itself and there would be less text.

Actually think it would be more interesting if it were 1 VP for every sub-3-cost empty pile, so you could scale it up.

What a fanatastic idea! I agree. That is much better than what the card currently says or 0VP. It probably could remain at $2, too. If by some fluke this wins, that suggestion should be adopted.

Onto the non-terminal draw cards!


I submitted a card to the contest.
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razorborne

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2012, 06:50:30 pm »
0

work in progress. one of these is mine. as a general note, I'm looking mainly for cohesion, meaning there's a reason for each part of the card to be on the same card. a Garden with a Moat reaction attached, for instance, makes no sense because the two have no relation to each other.

Sturges
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 2 VP if you have the most Copper cards in your deck compared to other players (a tie for most would qualify as well).
--
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Copper. You may discard this card to put the Copper into your hand.
so at best, the Victory part is worth the same as Tunnel, which costs the same. but it might not be, if you get into a Sturges competition with an opponent. so what's the trade off for that uncertainty? being able to flood yourself with copper? the reaction is only useful on boards with cursers and maybe ambassadors. and then, it replaces those worthless cards with something that is literally one step up from them. and, unlike Gardens and the like, this can't be your main route to victory. at best, in two-player, you can get 16 points from these. your opponent can almost completely close that gap by splitting provinces 5/3, which is likely since you've been flooding your deck with victories and coppers. if they can split it 6/2, or pick up a few duchies, they can close it completely pretty easily.

Allen
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.
I think it should be "discard a victory or curse card" to enable self-synergy. as is, I just don't see why this itself is a victory card.

Trumbo
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 1 VP plus an additional 1 VP for each Randomizer card you have.
--
Whenever a supply pile becomes empty, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put that pile's randomizer card on top of that pile (if that card is still outside the game).
--
(Rule clarifications: This card counts the number of Randomizer cards that you have in your deck. Randomizer cards are not normally used in play, but using this card's Reaction ability can put them in the supply. A Randomizer card in the supply can be gained or bought just like any other card in the supply.)
seems really complex. first of all, don't randomizers have different backs? so as soon as you pick one up, isn't it impossible to sufficiently randomize your deck in shuffling? on top of that, even if I'm wrong there, this is still just really weird to play. it effectively makes each pile 11 cards, if you happen to have it in your hand when the pile empties, and then in order for it to matter you have to get to it first. this feels like it'd lead to a lot of weird game situations where you and I both have a couple of these, and I empty a pile, with one of these in my hand, but am afraid to reveal it because you'll be able to buy up the randomizer first. or times where you empty the pile with a buy left and I can't reveal it because you'll just snap it up. just feels like it's trying to be cute for cute's sake, when it could just make you get a token when you empty a pile and be worth X points per token. but then it wouldn't meet the criteria.

Mankiewicz
$5 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
If you have 3 or more [This Card]s in play (counting this), gain a [Support Card], putting it in your hand.
Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Buy.
--
This card is worth 1 VP for each [Support Card] in your deck.
Setup: Add [Support Card] to the supply.
.
.
[Support Card]
$4* - Action
+1 Action
+$1
If you have 3 or more [Support Card]s in play (counting this), +1 VP.
--
Setup: Do not include this in the Randomizer deck. Only add it to the supply if [This Card] is in the Kingdom.
--
(Rule clarifications: [Support Card] cannot be bought or gained except by playing a [This Card].)
in general, I think the out-of-supply cards have a cost of 0, but it's not really relevant unless you have TfB guys so whatever. anyway, it's scary spam potential but the cost makes that hard to do early so it should be fine, and the lack of good draw means you probably need another piece anyway. the idea is definitely neat, although how fun it would be to play with/against is somewhat questionable.

Simon
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.
so the attack portion actively weakens the victory portion. the attack is generally much weaker than mountebank, since a) they're more likely to have victory points than curses early, b) they're gaining points instead of losing them, c) if they have any TfB cards they'd much rather feed them estates than curses, and d) the estate pile is smaller so that part of the attack runs out quicker. you fix this in part with a stronger vanilla benefit, but it's still bizarre that it costs more. probably because it can hypothetically be worth 4 points in a two-player game, but since it's weakening itself a lot with the attack, it'll rarely actually be worth that much. more likely 2, but if both players go for it I could see it going down to 0.

Chayefsky
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.
I really don't like that wording. I know that it's generally pretty clear-cut whether or not there's trashers in the game, but I don't like the idea of measuring what cards are capable of. maybe it's my M:tG background, where things can get much more ambiguous. also, remember that this can be revealed multiple times, which means I can thief your gold, make you trash it, then reveal this to empty the gold pile. it's a simple wording fix, though. I'm much more concerned about going into cards' texts and discerning what they're "meant" to do.

Towne
$4 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2
Worth 1 VP
--
When this card is in play, if possible you must use all of your buys.
this has no drawback in a deck without +buy. there it's just a silvestate. I'd like it better if it cost 5 and gave you a buy. in the games where it does matter, it feels too severe. oh, because I have a council room for the cards, I need to flood myself with copper? or I can just not play this, but then it's just an estate. and don't forget that if you have a couple of cards that give +buy (say, mining village is the village variant on the board and you want an engine) you can get pretty severely screwed by this. so it's either going to be an ignorable drawback on a slightly overpowered card, or it's gonna be crippling to the point where it's almost never right to actually play it for $2.

Hecht
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)
I know it makes it stronger but I think I'd like it better if it just returned to your hand at the start of the next turn. other than that, it's a pretty simple, neat idea. the play ability seems a little tacked on, but it enables the self-synergy so it's okay.

Puzo
$4 - Victory-Reaction
2 VP
--
When another player trashes a card, you may set this aside from your hand.  If you do, he gains a Curse.  At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand.
pretty irrelevant in games without trashers, but as a 2VP Victory card it might be useful in late game green wars, especially if there are alt-victories around. I almost wish it cost $3, but then it'd be too easy to spam in games with strong trashing. it's ironic that its ability is at its best with your own trashing, since you're more likely to have it in hand when they trash. anyway, I think it should just discard instead of set aside and return. the reason HT uses the set aside thing is because, as an action, you might still want to play it on your turn. this is a victory card. it's unlikely to do anything on your turn. and, if you have things like Thief, that make them trash during your turn, you can keep bringing the Puzo back every turn to curse with them, which is ugly.

Seaton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
Trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
When another player plays a [This Card], you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Gain a copy of one of the revealed Treasures, putting it into your hand, then discard the revealed cards.
--
(Rules clarification: you may trash a [This Card] to itself, and must if you have no other Treasures in play)
so if I leave this alone, you're stuck with a silver that trashes your treasure every turn? I guess that's okay early, Loan can be helpful and all. eh, maybe it's not so bad if I leave it alone. it can always trash itself once I'm done with it. but the reaction seems dangerous, since I might reveal a copper and three actions. still, if I'm trashing my coppers, it's more likely I'll hit a good treasure (or, at worst, another one of these.) or nothing so okay. yeah, the whole thing works together, pretty well actually, but it rubs me the wrong way for reasons I can't quite identify.

Kaufman
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
1 VP
simple as heck, but hey, it doesn't exist. I can't shake the feeling it's too cheap, but overall a fairly elegant solution. I like it.

Benton
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack; return [This Card] to the supply and gain a Silver, putting it in your hand.
so it's silver and a one-time moat. I like the idea, but I feel like one-time reactions defeat the point. reactions are already at a disadvantage against attacks, since there's no wrong time to draw an attack but plenty of wrong times to draw a reaction.

Diamond
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.
on the one hand, you can compare it to duchy. it needs to be triggered twice to be better than duchy. on the other, though, realize that it turns estates into duchies. it can also turn duchies into practically provinces. you effectively pay an extra $2 for them by holding them back, but that's still a discount on the estate-duchies and if you're stuck at $7, picking up 5 VP is a pretty good consolation. not sure it's overpowered but it'd definitely need testing.

Lehman
$3 - Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1VP.  If the game ends while this is in play, worth 8 VP instead.
--
Now: +1 Buy.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.
...nice. I really like this. I like how it feeds itself by giving you the buys to drive a three-pile ending, thus enabling itself, but it doesn't give you cards, which means you can't easily just get a million of these in play. 8 VP may be a little much but it's hard to set up so okay.

Brackett
$7 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$3
You may discard a Copper. If you don't, gain a Copper, putting it on your deck.
--
Worth 2 VP
I don't get it. why is it a victory card? a cantrip gold with a drawback could probably cost 6, the VP just seems tacked on to meet the criteria. I like the drawback, it's a good way to do terminal gold, and it's self-feeding, which is nice. I just don't think this is the criteria for it.

Kasdan
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards into your hand and put the rest back on top in any order.
--
When another player plays an Attack you may discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Discard any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards, then put one into your hand and the rest back on top in any order.
will that fit on a card? also, why is this a treasure instead of an action? to meet the criteria? the mechanic is a little convoluted in wording, but it's pretty clear what it's supposed to do so okay. it's too bad you have to write the whole thing out twice, though. the general idea of a reaction being a bigger version of the main ability is nice, but I would've gone with a simpler ability.

Hughes
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.
put a card from where? I assume your hand but you need to say. anyway, if I'm reading the reaction right it is a chancellor that puts the card on top or makes it miss the shuffle. that part seems unnecessarily confusing. does this need to also be a defense against cursers? also, this feels way too close in practice to watchtower, in terms of reactions. the top decking gets a little stronger, but the getting rid of it gets much weaker to compensate. the main side is obviously different, but I'm not really sure what's going on with it. I don't see what it has to do with the other half. I mean, if I gain a treasure with an action during my turn, I can use this to pick it up. but that's it.

Zaillian
$6 - Action-Duration-Victory
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP
not quite clean enough to pull off the vanillas-only thing, I think. powerwise, it's a Caravan-Peddler both of which cost 4, for 6, which is fine, and the VP isn't gonna make much of a difference. so this should be okay. it's just the VP thing feels a little extraneous.

Monahan
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
If you have unused Actions (not Action cards), this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $2.
--
When you play an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and +1 Action.
--
(Rules clarifications: To use the Reaction effect of this card, you must discard it after playing an Action card but before resolving the effects on that Action card, in much the same way that one reveals Reactions to the Attack cards of other players prior to them resolving the effects of the Attack card.)
this took me a second to think about when you'd want it, and then I realized it's useful with a bunch of terminals. if your terminals collide you can use this to smooth things out by making them non-terminal, effectively paying $2 for the second action, and once you're out of terminals to enable with this, it turns on into a silver. pretty neato, although I suspect it might need to cost $4.

Gaghan
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Gain a [This Card].
--
Worth 2 VP
simple and elegant. it's a fast rush strategy, but at the end all you've done is bloated your deck, emptied one pile, and left yourself with 16 VP. then again, that's also +.8 VP per garden, +2 VP per Silk Road, and +2.7 VP per Vineyard, but this is obnoxiously priced right at the same point as two of those, as well as the potion needed to buy the third, so making this work with them might be tricky. if there's workshop on the board, an opening of Gaghan-Workshop and then rushing the Gaghan, Workshop, and Silk Road or Garden piles seems like it'd be pretty strong, but not sure it's that much worse than existing Garden Shop options. but if you can pick one up early and force a three-pile ending it may be good enough on its own too.

Sorkin
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $3
If an opponent plays an Attack, reveal [This Card] from your hand.  Gain a copy of the Attack card and trash [This Card] from your hand.
the wording's a bit off I think but whatever. you can't be forced to reveal it since the game doesn't know you have it, meaning this is strictly better than gold. and even if you were forced to reveal it, oh no, you get a good attack. I like the reaction, but the card itself is just way too strong.

Robinson
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+2 Cards
Opponents with 4 or more cards in hand discard a card.  If any Victory or $0-cost cards were discarded, gain a token on the [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two tokens (rounded down) on the [This Card] mat at the end of the game.
it's a nice attempt at making "each opponent discards a good card" but how often are you really gonna play this? it costs 6, so you can't get it before the first shuffle, you're probably only going to get to play it maybe 4 times total. that means that, if they discard a good card just once this is only worth an estate. you can get some more by picking up more of these, but you need them early to work and you're buying them across from gold. how often will that be worth it?

Pierson
$6 - Action-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Pick one: Gain a Silver in hand; or Gain a Gold and a Copper.
ooh, neat. plain and simple. not much to say, probably worth picking this up over your first gold if you don't have too many other terminals. I'm not sure which option is better, since the estimated value of each is the same. I guess it depends what your average card is worth. I think I'd usually take the silver, though. anyway, I like it.

Cody
$5 - Action-Victory
Reveal your hand.  +1 Action for each differently named Victory card in play and in your hand, including this one.
--
Worth 1 VP for each differently named Action card that your deck contains two copies of, including this one.
--
(Rules clarification:  For instance, if your final deck contains 5 copies of [This Card], 2 Markets, 1 Menagerie, and no other actions, each [This Card] is worth 2 VP: 1 each for the pair of Markets and more than two copies of [This Card], but nothing for the single Menagerie.)
should say "two or more" for clarification purposes. anyway, I guess there's some self-synergy, in that the actions the first ability provides lets you buy up more terminals, which helps feed the VP ability. but it's well-hidden, which means at first glance the whole thing makes no sense together. it's also just a bunch of actions for $5, which is awkward.

Nugent
$5 - Treasure/Reaction
Worth $3
-$1 for each card remaining in your hand when this card is played, but not less than 0.
+1 Buy
--
If one of the other players has no cards in his hand at any point except the clean-up phase of their turn, you may trash this card, gaining a Duchy on top of your deck.
trash it from where? also why would I do that? gaining a duchy on top of my deck sounds really bad. I mean, if it's way late in the game maybe I want to because I keep hitting these with a bunch of green cards so it's not doing anything for me, but if I'm there odds are they are too, meaning it's not likely to ever trigger unless they're playing vault or tactician. and if I do get lucky enough to make that work, why does the duchy need to mess up my next hand?

Goyer
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $1
--
When you discard this from play, you may trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
Worth 1 VP for every $2 (rounded down) in the cost of the Treasure card you have the most copies of in your deck (the most expensive card if there is a tie).
I like the idea but it seems really tedious to play. I need to know exactly how many of each treasure I have, so I know when to trash my silvers over coppers to turn on my golds, I need to accurately predict how future turns will go in order to assume how many golds (or platinums) I'll end up with, and such. I mean, always trashing the lowest-cost treasure seems like a good strategy, but there's a 2-point difference here between silvers and golds, so there's a lot of reward for pedantic card-counting, which isn't all that fun.

Mamet
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. Discard it or put it back.
--
When another player plays an Attack card you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order. If you discarded any cards this way, either discard or trash this.
why is this a treasure? I'd totally buy it if it was an action but I don't see why this is a treasure. also, isn't this a card from Schlippy's set? yes, I just checked, this is exactly monocle. I thought you weren't supposed to submit cards that'd been posted elsewhere. anyway, that aside, I have the same issues here as I did there: it's really inelegant and it's hard to piece together why all of this is attached. especially the treasure part. what purpose does being a treasure serve on this card?

Crowe
$4 - Action-Victory
Trash two cards.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash (round down).
cute. will almost always be worth an estate, since every game with trashers eventually winds up with copper and estate in the trash. less flexible and more expensive than Steward, but it can lead to some pretty big upswings in points if you can make it work. neat.

Foote
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $0
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand, +$1; or trash this card immediately, +$2.
--
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, trash the discarded card.
on the treasure side, I feel like this could be worded better. "worth $1. You may trash a card from your hand. If you don't, trash this and +$1." plays differently if you can empty your hand though, and from the reaction I suspect that may have been intentional. it can be a strong dissuasion of discard attacks, in that if you militia me early and I have this, you just gave me a free half-chapel. but it costs $4 so that should be fine, since you're giving up a lot of opportunity, including a militia of your own, to set that up.

Darabont
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a card, you may set aside the gained card if this card is in play or you reveal this from your hand.  Return the set aside card to your deck at the end of the game.
"you may reveal this from your hand or play" anyway, I really like this. Islands away all the victory cards you buy with it, and keeps junkers from cluttering your deck. lets you start greening earlier, since you won't get as cluttered. maybe a bit strong in draw-your-deck style decks, because they tend to get hit hard by greening and they'll always be able to find this. but should be okay. I feel like the cost is a bit awkward, since I'd like it a bit over $4 but $5 is too high, but I'm okay with pushing it a bit.

Howard
$4 - Action-Victory
Either trash up to 2 cards from your hand or move a card from the trash to your [This Card] mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 cards on your [This Card] mat.
Dark Ages gives us trash fetching, which means this suddenly does have a use of protecting things from being reclaimed, but in most games there's no need for the second ability to deal with cards at all. how often do you expect this to be played? 6 times? that means it's serving as a duchy that eats up 6 terminal actions over the course of the game. and if there's no other trashers it's going to have to be played to trash a couple times, meaning it's less. I'd say this can probably cost $3. it seems really hard to use.

Greene
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Choose one: +$1 or +1 Buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, in your buy phase play this twice.
--
(Rules clarification: If you set this aside in your buy phase, you immediately play it twice.)
so whenever I gain a card, this becomes a super-gold? seems pretty nuts. I like the front half a lot but the back end is probably too powerful. if you don't happen to have a gainer in hand, and you don't get hit by a gaining attack, you can always just, like, buy something, and then basically haven away a super-gold. and if you have multiple of these? ridic. two of these in hand is a guaranteed province next turn. the only problem is that if I'm using it like that it'll sometimes miss reshuffles. so I can only get super-golds sometimes. oh no.

Odets
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
+1 Buy
+$1
--
Whenever you buy a card, you may reveal and discard this card from your hand. If you do, every other player gains a copy of the bought card instead of you.
so it's a witch that costs me a buy instead of an action and doesn't draw me cards. that's hypothetically okay. but it costs less too. I mean, without +buy it's really not that good, since I have to spend my whole turn's resources cursing you, but if there's a source of +buy for cheap, then whether you collide them early or not can decide the game. the +buys you can open with across from this are hamlet, woodcutter, pawn, herbalist, and trade routes, which isn't all that much, and some of them suck. but I'd open hamlet-this in a second. it's also worth noting that the nomad camp option exists, which is even more brutal. you can only do it if you get your 4-coin hand first, so even if we both have 4/3s, one of us might hit it while the other doesn't. still, you need to collide them, which makes the strength weaker, but makes the luck factor involved much higher, meaning games will be decided simply by who collided theirs turn 3. maybe that's not such a big deal, but the games where it hits it's sure gonna feel like one.

McQuarrie
$3 - Action-Victory
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  You may discard up to one card.  Put the rest back in any order.
+2 Cards
--
If a Victory supply pile other than Provinces or Colonies is empty, this is worth 2 VP.  Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.
don't we already have the opposite of this in the set? also the first part is a completely unrelated card to the last part. if it was a workshop variant of some sort it'd be super cool, since that gives you a means of accomplishing that. it's also weird that this can be worth 0 in non-trivial circumstances. I'd make it worth 1 VP for each empty pile. then it'll always be worth 1, but sometimes it's as good as a duchy if the tools are there to three-pile. on the action side, it's a nice variant on Smithy, in that it can dig as deep to find what you need but won't give you everything there. but again it has no reason to be on the same card as the victory half.

Ephron
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2 and 1 VP
--
When you gain or play this, look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  You may discard any number of them.  Put the rest on top of the deck in any order.
the VP feels a little tacked on, but it's not egregious here. stuff that's worth 1 always feels a little weak because winning that split 8-0 won't help you come back from a 5-3 province split. but the card is nice, in that it helps clear out the chaff, which makes it feel like it's designed specifically to interact with silk roads decks, helping you knock off those worthless victory cards and keep your treasure flowing. but it has uses in any alt-vp deck that finds itself inundated in green. I probably wouldn't pick it up in a deck aiming for provinces, but there's plenty of things it does help with.


Sherwood
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than the Attack card that is not a [This Card], putting it into your hand.
I'd like it better if it discarded the card you gain, to avoid the ugly "that is not a [This Card]" wording you need to avoid the first attack emptying the pile. I'm not sure how much gaining $3s is going to help, but I suppose it's a constant flow of silver so there's that. anyway, I like it but I don't love it.

Brooks
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.
feels like fool's gold but it's completely different. like so many of the other submissions, this seems good with alt vp, where Victory cards are gained more frequently and decks get more clogged. but it's costed the same as many of the existing alt vps so that might be tricky to swing, and they tend to not have much cash to spare, so holding this back to pick up a gold might be out of the question. still, a neat idea.

Riskin
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)
I would make it discard from your hand, since you can do some stupid things with these and, say, golems. get four in your deck, have no more than one non-golem action in your deck (scheme?) and boom, free province every time you draw golem. of course you can do that with tunnel too, but that just gets you golds. you still need to pull them together and actually buy the provinces. but even outside of nuts combos like that, I feel like, at $2, the potential to give you $2 from your deck is a little much.

Helgeland
$5 - Victory-Reaction
1 VP
--
Whenever a player buys a non-victory card, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.
I like that it uses being a victory point to make it not do anything but the reaction, but I worry that it's basically just a non-terminal smuggler. it's not quite as good because I have to decide as you buy things which I want, and it can't gain things they gain, but it still feels like a very similar space.

Pressburger
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or [This Card] supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.
it seems too good but I don't think it actually is. I don't like the victory part, but it needs to be a victory for self-synergy purposes, and if it's worth even 1 all the time it's strictly better than estate, and the ability seems good at $2, so okay I'll buy it.

alright that took forever. feel free to tell me all the ways I am wrong.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2012, 11:12:22 am »
+1

The results for the Dual-Type Card challenge are in!

As a reminder, here was the objective for the challenge:

Quote
Create a dual-type card.  The complete type specification must be one of the following:

* Action-Victory
* Action-Victory-Reaction
* Action-Attack-Victory
* Action-Duration-Victory
* Treasure-Victory
* Treasure-Reaction
* Victory-Reaction

No other type combinations are eligible.

I don't have a card of my own this time, so let's jump straight to the contest results:


#1 - Crystal Ball by eHalcyon with 15 points (Hecht)
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
--
(Rules clarification: If discarded during your Buy phase, e.g. by another copy of this card, it will be played in the next turn's Buy phase.  If you don't play this card in your Buy phase, the reaction can still be used when you discard it from your hand during the Clean-Up phase.)


It's a Silver-with-a-bonus card.  Or two bonuses, technically.  It's got a self-Spy effect, and it's got a way to save it for when you need it when you get it when you don't.  Follow?  There's some self-synergy in the bonuses, since revealing one with another means an extra $2 next turn.

This card was the clear winner, but the race for second place was tight:


#2 (tie) - Planchet by Qvist with 11 points (Riskin)
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When you would discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may set this aside from your hand instead.  If you do, +$2 and return it to the discard pile at the end of your turn.
--
(Rule clarifications: If you discard this during another player's turn (e.g., because of Militia), you get +$2 at the start of your next turn.)

#2 (tie) - Bribe (2) by DWetzel with 11 points (Benton)
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack; return Bribe (2) to the supply and gain a Silver, putting it in your hand.

#4 (tie) - Tourist Village by Jack Rudd with 10 points (Kaufman)
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
1 VP

#4 (tie) - Deed (1) by Mecherath with 10 points (Diamond)
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.

#6 (tie) - Trust Fund by Tejayes with 9 points (Sherwood)
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than the Attack card that is not a Trust Fund, putting it into your hand.

#6 (tie) - Bandwagon by WanderingWinder with 9 points (Helgeland)
$5 - Victory-Reaction
1 VP
--
Whenever a player buys a non-victory card, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.

#8 - Livestock by Saucery with 8 points (Foote)
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $0
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand, +$1; or trash this card immediately, +$2.
--
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, trash the discarded card.

#9 - Heiress by yuma with 7 points (Allen)
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.

#10 - Luddite by Michaelf7777777 with 6 points (Crowe)
$4 - Action-Victory
Trash two cards.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash (round down).

#11 (tie) - Bribe (1) by angrybirds with 5 points (Towne)
$4 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2
Worth 1 VP
--
When this card is in play, if possible you must use all of your buys.

#11 (tie) - Sepulchre by ashersky with 5 points (Puzo)
$4 - Victory-Reaction
2 VP
--
When another player trashes a card, you may set this aside from your hand.  If you do, he gains a Curse.  At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand.

#11 (tie) - Proprietary Mine by dnkywin with 5 points (Pierson)
$6 - Action-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Pick one: Gain a Silver in hand; or Gain a Gold and a Copper.

#11 (tie) - Rations by FishingVillage with 5 points (Monahan)
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
If you have unused Actions (not Action cards), this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $2.
--
When you play an Action card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and +1 Action.

#11 (tie) - Opal by Fragasnap with 5 points (Kasdan)
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards into your hand and put the rest back on top in any order.
--
When another player plays an Attack you may discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Discard any or all of the revealed Curses and Victory cards, then put one into your hand and the rest back on top in any order.

#16 (tie) - Marquise by One Armed Man with 4 points (Simon)
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+3 Cards
Each other player discards a Victory card from their hand or reveals a hand with no Victory cards and gains an Estate and a Copper.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in the supply.

#16 (tie) - Stake by Guy Srinivasan with 4 points (Seaton)
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
Trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
When another player plays a Stake, you may reveal and discard this from your hand. If you do, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Gain a copy of one of the revealed Treasures, putting it into your hand, then discard the revealed cards.
--
(Rules clarification: you may trash a Stake to itself, and must if you have no other Treasures in play)

#16 (tie) - Vanquisher by andwilk with 4 points (Robinson)
$6 - Action-Attack-Victory
+2 Cards
Opponents with 4 or more cards in hand discard a card.  If any Victory or $0-cost cards were discarded, gain a token on the Vanquisher mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every two tokens (rounded down) on the Vanquisher mat at the end of the game.

#16 (tie) - Tallage by RobertJ with 4 points (Brooks)
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
--
When any player gains a Victory card you may reveal and discard this, if you do gain a Gold in hand or on top of your deck.

#20 (tie) - Castle by Powerman with 3 points (Zaillian)
$6 - Action-Duration-Victory
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+$1
--
Worth 1 VP

#20 (tie) - Escort by Polk5440 with 3 points (Pressburger)
$2 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Discard any Victory or Curse cards. Put the rest back on top of your deck in any order. If you discarded all three cards, +$3.
--
If the Estate or Escort supply pile is empty, this is worth 1 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

#20 (tie) - Monocle by Schlippy with 3 points (Mamet)
$2 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. Discard it or put it back.
--
When another player plays an Attack card you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order. If you discarded any cards this way, either discard or trash this.

#20 (tie) - Timeshare by Sakako with 3 points (Lehman)
$3 - Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1VP.  If the game ends while this is in play, worth 8 VP instead.
--
Now: +1 Buy.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

#20 (tie) - Antiquer by Schneau with 3 points (Howard)
$4 - Action-Victory
Either trash up to 2 cards from your hand or move a card from the trash to your Antiquer mat.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 cards on your Antiquer mat.

#20 (tie) - Buy 1, Get 1 Free by Watno with 3 points (Greene)
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Choose one: +$1 or +1 Buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, in your buy phase play this twice.
--
(Rules clarification: If you set this aside in your buy phase, you immediately play it twice.)

#20 (tie) - Tycoon by ChocophileBenj with 3 points (Goyer)
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $1
--
When you discard this from play, you may trash a Treasure you have in play.
--
Worth 1 VP for every $2 (rounded down) in the cost of the Treasure card you have the most copies of in your deck (the most expensive card if there is a tie).

#20 (tie) - Farmstead by razorborne with 3 points (Gaghan)
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
Gain a Farmstead.
--
Worth 2 VP

#20 (tie) - Conservatory by Kirian with 3 points (Cody)
$5 - Action-Victory
Reveal your hand.  +1 Action for each differently named Victory card in play and in your hand, including this one.
--
Worth 1 VP for each differently named Action card that your deck contains two copies of, including this one.
--
(Rules clarification:  For instance, if your final deck contains 5 copies of Conservatory, 2 Markets, 1 Menagerie, and no other actions, each Conservatory is worth 2 VP: 1 each for the pair of Markets and more than two copies of Conservatory, but nothing for the single Menagerie.)

#29 (tie) - Pay-Off by Murf with 2 points (Sorkin)
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $3
If an opponent plays an Attack, reveal Pay-Off from your hand.  Gain a copy of the Attack card and trash Pay-Off from your hand.

#29 (tie) - Crystal by Archetype with 2 points (Odets)
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
+1 Buy
+$1
--
Whenever you buy a card, you may reveal and discard this card from your hand. If you do, every other player gains a copy of the bought card instead of you.

#29 (tie) - Antique by Adrienaline with 2 points (Nugent)
$5 - Treasure/Reaction
Worth $3
-$1 for each card remaining in your hand when this card is played, but not less than 0.
+1 Buy
--
If one of the other players has no cards in his hand at any point except the clean-up phase of their turn, you may trash this card, gaining a Duchy on top of your deck.

#29 (tie) - Forecast by nopawnsintended with 2 points (McQuarrie)
$3 - Action-Victory
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  You may discard up to one card.  Put the rest back in any order.
+2 Cards
--
If a Victory supply pile other than Provinces or Colonies is empty, this is worth 2 VP.  Otherwise, this is worth 0 VP.

#29 (tie) - Deed (2) by NoMoreFun with 2 points (Hughes)
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.

#29 (tie) - Plough by Bella Cullen with 2 points (Ephron)
$5 - Treasure-Victory
Worth $2 and 1 VP
--
When you gain or play this, look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  You may discard any number of them.  Put the rest on top of the deck in any order.

#29 (tie) - Fiat by theory with 2 points (Darabont)
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a card, you may set aside the gained card if this card is in play or you reveal this from your hand.  Return the set aside card to your deck at the end of the game.

#29 (tie) - Castle Grounds by feelingzwontfade with 2 points (Brackett)
$7 - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$3
You may discard a Copper. If you don't, gain a Copper, putting it on your deck.
--
Worth 2 VP

#37 (tie) - Clifftop Retreat by Rush Clasic with 1 point (Trumbo)
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 1 VP plus an additional 1 VP for each Randomizer card you have.
--
Whenever a supply pile becomes empty, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put that pile's randomizer card on top of that pile (if that card is still outside the game).
--
(Rule clarifications: This card counts the number of Randomizer cards that you have in your deck. Randomizer cards are not normally used in play, but using this card's Reaction ability can put them in the supply. A Randomizer card in the supply can be gained or bought just like any other card in the supply.)

#37 (tie) - Bronzeworks by PenPen with 1 point (Sturges)
$3 - Victory-Reaction
Worth 2 VP if you have the most Copper cards in your deck compared to other players (a tie for most would qualify as well).
--
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Copper. You may discard this card to put the Copper into your hand.

#37 (tie) - Parade by zahlman with 1 point (Mankiewicz)
$5 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
If you have 3 or more Parades in play (counting this), gain a [Support Card], putting it in your hand.
Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Buy.
--
This card is worth 1 VP for each [Support Card] in your deck.
Setup: Add [Support Card] to the supply.
.
.
[Support Card]
$4* - Action
+1 Action
+$1
If you have 3 or more Parades in play (counting this), +1 VP.
--
Setup: Do not include this in the Randomizer deck. Only add it to the supply if Parade is in the Kingdom.
--
(Rule clarifications: [Support Card] cannot be bought or gained except by playing a Parade.)

#40 - Hidden Gem by ignorentmen with 0 points (Chayefsky)
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this card and either gain the trashed card or gain a copy of it from the supply.
--
If there are no cards capable of trashing in the kingdom (not including Black Market) gain a Silver to the discard when played.
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Qvist

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2012, 12:05:46 pm »
0

Congrats eHalcyon. All voters compared our two entries. So it was very tough for me to win, although I was very confident this time. But this was the case before I saw your entry.
This submission was a revised version of

"Planchet $2 Treasure-Reaction // $1 -- When you discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, +$2."

I wanted to make a Tunnel-version of a Treasure Card. I understand that some of you pointed out that this is worthless when there's no discarder and Tunnel gives at least 2VP, this is only an expensive Copper in these cases. But Fool's Gold is similar in this regards. Fool's Gold is good with supporting cards and is only an expensive Copper otherwise. And some complained about the wording. I copied the wording from existing cards like Haven and Tunnel. The part "return it to the discard pile" was taken from Horse Traders, but I agree that "return" is not necessarily needed. Otherwise I'm not really sure why the wording is confusing.

eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2012, 12:17:31 pm »
0

Congrats eHalcyon. All voters compared our two entries. So it was very tough for me to win, although I was very confident this time. But this was the case before I saw your entry.
This submission was a revised version of

"Planchet $2 Treasure-Reaction // $1 -- When you discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, +$2."

I wanted to make a Tunnel-version of a Treasure Card. I understand that some of you pointed out that this is worthless when there's no discarder and Tunnel gives at least 2VP, this is only an expensive Copper in these cases. But Fool's Gold is similar in this regards. Fool's Gold is good with supporting cards and is only an expensive Copper otherwise. And some complained about the wording. I copied the wording from existing cards like Haven and Tunnel. The part "return it to the discard pile" was taken from Horse Traders, but I agree that "return" is not necessarily needed. Otherwise I'm not really sure why the wording is confusing.

Oh man, that predates my post here!

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2682.msg43006#msg43006


Close race!
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2012, 01:18:46 pm »
0

A well deserved winner.

I am pleasantly surprised at my T-2 finish, given the relative panning the card took.  I thought of a few different versions of this card, including one that would actually give the OPPONENT a Silver if they wanted it.  I wish I had done that instead, I think.

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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2012, 01:24:01 pm »
0

Congrats to the winner. I am really glad a "save it for later" treasure-reaction mechanic won.

Is there a reason why Crystal Ball is worded "When you discard this from your hand or from your deck..." rather than "When you discard this other than from play..."? I find the "from your deck" a little vague.

I get why the self-spy ability is thematic, now.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2012, 01:31:26 pm »
0

Is there a reason why Crystal Ball is worded "When you discard this from your hand or from your deck..." rather than "When you discard this other than from play..."? I find the "from your deck" a little vague.

If it's deliberate, I would assume it's so something like Golem couldn't just automatically cause all copies of this to be discarded and therefore activated.

But I agree it's vague.  Is there a clear distinction between "set aside world" (where Golem, Hunting Party, and Fortune Teller put cards, for example) and "look at world" (where Lookout, Spy, and Cartographer put cards)?  I would assume the intention for Crystal Ball is that the latter group activates it, while the former group does not.  But I don't know off-hand if that distinction is always clear.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2012, 01:38:58 pm »
0

Is there a reason why Crystal Ball is worded "When you discard this from your hand or from your deck..." rather than "When you discard this other than from play..."? I find the "from your deck" a little vague.

If it's deliberate, I would assume it's so something like Golem couldn't just automatically cause all copies of this to be discarded and therefore activated.

But I agree it's vague.  Is there a clear distinction between "set aside world" (where Golem, Hunting Party, and Fortune Teller put cards, for example) and "look at world" (where Lookout, Spy, and Cartographer put cards)?  I would assume the intention for Crystal Ball is that the latter group activates it, while the former group does not.  But I don't know off-hand if that distinction is always clear.

Could this be clarified by the author?

Also, I am a little confused why with this (or the other cards) it would be such a concern to have Golem activate the cards? It would have the same feel as Chancellor-Stash, right?
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2012, 01:53:59 pm »
0

Is there a reason why Crystal Ball is worded "When you discard this from your hand or from your deck..." rather than "When you discard this other than from play..."? I find the "from your deck" a little vague.

If it's deliberate, I would assume it's so something like Golem couldn't just automatically cause all copies of this to be discarded and therefore activated.

But I agree it's vague.  Is there a clear distinction between "set aside world" (where Golem, Hunting Party, and Fortune Teller put cards, for example) and "look at world" (where Lookout, Spy, and Cartographer put cards)?  I would assume the intention for Crystal Ball is that the latter group activates it, while the former group does not.  But I don't know off-hand if that distinction is always clear.

Could this be clarified by the author?

Also, I am a little confused why with this (or the other cards) it would be such a concern to have Golem activate the cards? It would have the same feel as Chancellor-Stash, right?

That's another good question, yeah.  It feels like Golem-CB would be too powerful to allow, but it may just be an appropriately great combo.  The comparison to Chancellor-Stash is excellent.  There's a difference, though:  playing a Golem would cause all your Crystal Balls to be played THAT turn, whereas with Chancellor they get played the NEXT turn.  That's a huge difference, albeit one that may well be compensated for by the fact that Golem is such a difficult card to buy.

Any other dangerous cards like this?  Adventurer would not skip over Crystal Balls; nor would Library.  Hunting Party might activate all but one, but you'd need a stack of them to do it reliably, and that would make it hard to get a stack of Crystal Balls (both cards being at the same price point), and a stack of Hunting Parties is often a winning deck anyway.

Fortune Teller could easily activate all your CBs, but you can't do that to yourself.  Sage would stop on Crystal Ball instead of skipping over them.  I might well be missing something here, but I'm not seeing any particular problem with the "other than from play" wording.
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ChocophileBenj

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2012, 01:55:49 pm »
0

Geeeee, I KNEW I should have kept a treasure-reaction, when I saw those people complaining about victory cards !!! It was called "Bribe", too !

Crystal Ball's treasure part is a spying silver, still good to have ! The reaction part looks like Tunnel except it is more powerful. And it can be strong with cards that benefit from low-hands/hands without treasure (Library, Tactician, Poor House !)
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2012, 02:02:30 pm »
0

I know it sounds like a completely different card and too similar to Tunnel, but what about if it wasn't "played" when you discard it, you just gain another copy?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2012, 02:37:41 pm »
0

Congrats to the winner. I am really glad a "save it for later" treasure-reaction mechanic won.

Is there a reason why Crystal Ball is worded "When you discard this from your hand or from your deck..." rather than "When you discard this other than from play..."? I find the "from your deck" a little vague.

I get why the self-spy ability is thematic, now.

I just thought it sounded better.  I never thought of confusion with "set aside" vs. "look at" discarders.  I am fine with "other than from play" as it does seem to be clearer.  I would say that the combo with Golem would be fine. :)

I also like the wording change that someone proposed during the voting stage, "at the start of your next buy phase".  That helps make the mechanic clearer.

The name was chosen to tie it thematically to not only official cards like Fortune Teller and Oracle but also another card in the set, Soothsayer, and my submission to the other contest, Harbinger.  With Soothsayer, Crystal Ball is pretty much a free pass.  I was back and forth on including the mini-Spy effect, but I just really liked how it tied into the card name.
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2012, 02:44:59 pm »
0

Congrats to the winner. I am really glad a "save it for later" treasure-reaction mechanic won.

Is there a reason why Crystal Ball is worded "When you discard this from your hand or from your deck..." rather than "When you discard this other than from play..."? I find the "from your deck" a little vague.

I get why the self-spy ability is thematic, now.

I just thought it sounded better.  I never thought of confusion with "set aside" vs. "look at" discarders.  I am fine with "other than from play" as it does seem to be clearer.  I would say that the combo with Golem would be fine. :)

Agreed.

Quote
I also like the wording change that someone proposed during the voting stage, "at the start of your next buy phase".  That helps make the mechanic clearer.

Thanks, that was me!

Quote
The name was chosen to tie it thematically to not only official cards like Fortune Teller and Oracle but also another card in the set, Soothsayer, and my submission to the other contest, Harbinger.  With Soothsayer, Crystal Ball is pretty much a free pass.  I was back and forth on including the mini-Spy effect, but I just really liked how it tied into the card name.

This was the part of the card that made me give it 2 votes, I think! I really liked the self-synergy.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #83 on: August 27, 2012, 03:41:20 pm »
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The name was chosen to tie it thematically to not only official cards like Fortune Teller and Oracle but also another card in the set, Soothsayer, and my submission to the other contest, Harbinger.  With Soothsayer, Crystal Ball is pretty much a free pass.  I was back and forth on including the mini-Spy effect, but I just really liked how it tied into the card name.

Ooooh, slick. I didn't even think about Soothsayer. Nice synergy, indeed.
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yuma

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #84 on: August 27, 2012, 08:26:18 pm »
0

Quote
#9 - Heiress by yuma with 7 points (Allen)
$5 - Action-Attack-Victory
Worth 2 VP
--
Discard a card that is neither a Treasure nor an Action; if you do all other players gain a Curse.

I was a little frustrated when I saw what I did here... too late. I had changed the wording to "Treasure nor an Action" because of the Ruins--which I never checked fully about and are indeed actions as well--so that this card could discard them.

What I really wanted and started out to accomplish was to only allow discarding of Victory cards and Curses (but then Ruins made me change it unnecessarily). But I still wonder if it would be too weak.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2012, 05:46:29 am »
0

Well done to the winner

Quote
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.

I got the impression a lot of people misunderstood my card (hence only getting 2 points).

The card's mainly there for the reaction. I wanted to make the treasure interesting though, so I put in the +1 card (so a venture at best), then put in the top decking so if you drew an action card it couldn't hurt you. Maybe I shouldn't have made it optional - I'll definitely rework the treasure for later use.

The reaction's main purpose is to have victory cards miss a reshuffle, which enables greening. I don't think any existing card lets you do this. The reshuffle is an important aspect of the game that only advanced players use to its full extent, so I thought it would be a good space to design in. I can't wait for the duration challenge if there is one. The watchtower effect is there for a bit more utility, and while it's stronger than watchtower if you're gaining a single card, since the chancellor effect isn't optional, you can only ever guarantee one card for your next hand, so I thought it was balanced.

The thing I liked most was that if you wanted the reaction for your end of turn buy, you had to forgo playing the treasure. I like action/treasure fan cards that have that kind of choice, but they weren't allowed here.

I guess I'll keep it simple next time.
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2012, 07:17:26 am »
+1

Well done to the winner

Quote
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.

I got the impression a lot of people misunderstood my card (hence only getting 2 points).

The card's mainly there for the reaction. I wanted to make the treasure interesting though, so I put in the +1 card (so a venture at best), then put in the top decking so if you drew an action card it couldn't hurt you. Maybe I shouldn't have made it optional - I'll definitely rework the treasure for later use.

The reaction's main purpose is to have victory cards miss a reshuffle, which enables greening. I don't think any existing card lets you do this. The reshuffle is an important aspect of the game that only advanced players use to its full extent, so I thought it would be a good space to design in. I can't wait for the duration challenge if there is one. The watchtower effect is there for a bit more utility, and while it's stronger than watchtower if you're gaining a single card, since the chancellor effect isn't optional, you can only ever guarantee one card for your next hand, so I thought it was balanced.

The thing I liked most was that if you wanted the reaction for your end of turn buy, you had to forgo playing the treasure. I like action/treasure fan cards that have that kind of choice, but they weren't allowed here.

I guess I'll keep it simple next time.

I think the main problem here is that the Treasure portion of the card is too strong. If you think about it, it's basically a Peddler, since it doesn't use an Action and gives you +1 Card, +$1. Of course, unlike Peddler, you can't use an Action card you draw. But, you can also optionally topdeck something, which is also helpful. So, even just the Treasure part of the card should probably cost at least $4. Adding in a pretty strong Reaction definitely means this card should be at least $5. The Reaction, even though it's interesting, is wordy and confusing - you may want to try to iron it out a little. But, besides the pricing problems and the wordiness, I like both parts of this card.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #87 on: August 28, 2012, 10:37:56 am »
0

Well done to the winner

Quote
$3 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
When you play this, +1 Card. You may put a card on top of your deck.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, put your deck in your discard pile. Then, either put the gained card on top of your deck, or set it aside. Discard the set aside cards at the start of your next turn.

I got the impression a lot of people misunderstood my card (hence only getting 2 points).

The card's mainly there for the reaction. I wanted to make the treasure interesting though, so I put in the +1 card (so a venture at best), then put in the top decking so if you drew an action card it couldn't hurt you. Maybe I shouldn't have made it optional - I'll definitely rework the treasure for later use.

The reaction's main purpose is to have victory cards miss a reshuffle, which enables greening. I don't think any existing card lets you do this. The reshuffle is an important aspect of the game that only advanced players use to its full extent, so I thought it would be a good space to design in. I can't wait for the duration challenge if there is one. The watchtower effect is there for a bit more utility, and while it's stronger than watchtower if you're gaining a single card, since the chancellor effect isn't optional, you can only ever guarantee one card for your next hand, so I thought it was balanced.

The thing I liked most was that if you wanted the reaction for your end of turn buy, you had to forgo playing the treasure. I like action/treasure fan cards that have that kind of choice, but they weren't allowed here.

I guess I'll keep it simple next time.

Not sure if it works well for that purpose. If you use it right after the reshuffle, you skip through a bunch of good cards to get to a top decked green. Yeah, it misses reshuffle, but you also saw it much sooner than you needed to. Reshuffling often is bad when you get into the greening stage, and this card triggers many reshuffles.

Edit: oh, set aside too. While that helps, the increased reshuffling point still stands.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 10:39:49 am by eHalcyon »
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #88 on: August 28, 2012, 07:28:38 pm »
0

#8 - Livestock by Saucery with 8 points (Foote)
$4 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $0
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand, +$1; or trash this card immediately, +$2.
--
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, trash the discarded card.

I was surprised to hear people think this card was weak. I thought it was only weak with no discarding effects, very strong with certain cards (warehouse, cellar, storeroom, cartographer, navigator, embassy), and utterly broken with searching cards like adventurer, golem, sage. In fact, it might still be those things :P
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2012, 09:09:30 pm »
+5

#4 (tie) - Deed (1) by Mecherath with 10 points (Diamond)
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.

I just wanted to say that I really liked this entry.  It is something of a game changer, but not in a game-breaking way.  It lets you get a "Duchy" by buying Estate (possibly at a slightly discount, since you only needed to have $4, including Deed).  It lets you get an almost-Province by buying Duchy with $7.  It would have a big effect on PPR and would also do interesting things for alt VP strategies.

Someone commented that it was weird how Diamond/Deed wasn't getting heat for using VP tokens when others did.  The reason is that this card won't put you into a "game won't end" situation, since it only grants VP when you buy VP.  Very elegant.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2012, 12:41:34 pm »
0

#4 (tie) - Deed (1) by Mecherath with 10 points (Diamond)
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.

I just wanted to say that I really liked this entry.  It is something of a game changer, but not in a game-breaking way.  It lets you get a "Duchy" by buying Estate (possibly at a slightly discount, since you only needed to have $4, including Deed).  It lets you get an almost-Province by buying Duchy with $7.  It would have a big effect on PPR and would also do interesting things for alt VP strategies.

Someone commented that it was weird how Diamond/Deed wasn't getting heat for using VP tokens when others did.  The reason is that this card won't put you into a "game won't end" situation, since it only grants VP when you buy VP.  Very elegant.
I just want to point out that the top half of the card is exactly Bronze, from my expansion posted in these forums.

Watno

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2012, 01:09:01 pm »
+2

The top half is exactly Silver, from Dominion (or Dominion: Intrigue or Dominion Base:Cards)?
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2012, 01:13:15 pm »
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The top half is exactly Silver, from Dominion (or Dominion: Intrigue or Dominion Base:Cards)?
Whoops, sorry. Deed (2) (AKA Hughes) fits the description I give in reply 90.

NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2012, 02:32:24 pm »
0

The top half is exactly Silver, from Dominion (or Dominion: Intrigue or Dominion Base:Cards)?
Whoops, sorry. Deed (2) (AKA Hughes) fits the description I give in reply 90.

Sorry about that. This would be the 2nd time I came up with the same idea as you for a card inadvertently. Rinkworks PM'd me when I submitted a card for the village challenge (+2 cards, discard cards for +1 action each) that was identical to one of your posted cards. No PM this time.

I'd like to try it out with compulsory topdecking as a $1 card.

Edit: Reading through the topic it seems like it was that at some point. Mandatory topdecking would make it balanced, but I'm not sure if it would ever be interesting.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 02:43:55 pm by NoMoreFun »
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Mecherath

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2012, 03:19:13 pm »
0

#4 (tie) - Deed (1) by Mecherath with 10 points (Diamond)
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
--
When you gain a victory card, you may discard this from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP.

I just wanted to say that I really liked this entry.  It is something of a game changer, but not in a game-breaking way.  It lets you get a "Duchy" by buying Estate (possibly at a slightly discount, since you only needed to have $4, including Deed).  It lets you get an almost-Province by buying Duchy with $7.  It would have a big effect on PPR and would also do interesting things for alt VP strategies.

Someone commented that it was weird how Diamond/Deed wasn't getting heat for using VP tokens when others did.  The reason is that this card won't put you into a "game won't end" situation, since it only grants VP when you buy VP.  Very elegant.

Thanks!  I noticed that quite a few people liked the card, which gives me the strength to keep going in these contests.  It could be that testing reveals that the cost, +$, or +VP needs to be tweaked, but I still like the concept.  The competition is so high on these, but we'll have a fun set at the end.  And really, the top few from any contest might start getting incorporated into my own games... if I get enough RL games in to get tired of Donald's cards.

I also loved that Diamond happened to get assigned to a Treasure/Reaction.
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2012, 09:40:15 pm »
0

Honestly, I think Diamond is a better name for it than Deed :)
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #96 on: August 30, 2012, 09:43:24 pm »
0

Honestly, I think Diamond is a better name for it than Deed :)

Deed makes sense though.  It's based on purchasing VP, which is usually land.  Wondering if some sort of adjective could be attached to spice it up.
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Mecherath

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2012, 10:58:16 pm »
+3

Honestly, I think Diamond is a better name for it than Deed :)

Deed makes sense though.  It's based on purchasing VP, which is usually land.  Wondering if some sort of adjective could be attached to spice it up.

Trusty Deed!
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2012, 12:10:09 pm »
0

Because of Crystal Ball's many uses in this set, I have performed an analysis in the Card List thread and posted this there:

Crystal Ball idea:
$6 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal the top 2 cards of your deck, discard one and put the other back.
--
When you discard this from your hand or from your deck, you may reveal it and set it aside.  In your next Buy phase, play this card.
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