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Author Topic: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!  (Read 34276 times)

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rinkworks

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Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« on: August 13, 2012, 10:13:08 am »
+2

Submission Rules

* Submit no more than one card per person per challenge.  You do not need to submit for all challenges if you don't want to, but of course you can't win if you don't compete.
* Submit your cards to me via this forum's messaging system.  Submissions made after each week's deadline cannot be accepted.
* Each card you submit must have a name, a cost, a list of types, and the exact wording that should appear on the card.  Also include a brief description of any special design considerations (e.g., Stash having a unique back), but do NOT include any other information, such as strategic commentary or examples about it would play.
* Although you must submit names for each of your cards, the names will not be listed on the voting ballots, so make sure your card's appeal does not depend on your choice of name.
* I will accept revisions to your contest entries provided they are submitted to me before the deadline.  If you submit a revision to an entry you have previously submitted to me, resubmit your revised card(s) in their entirety.  That is, don't tell me "Oh, can you make that +2 Cards say +3 Cards instead?"  Just resubmit the full card.
* Only submit cards that are your own design.
* You may submit cards that have been previously posted here in this forum, including those that have been refined by the community as a whole, provided you can still claim that the central conceit of the card -- and the majority of its final version -- is yours.  This applies to cards previously posted, however -- if your submissions aren't already posted on his board, please refrain from doing so until after the results have been announced.
* A single card might conceivably qualify for multiple challenges within this series.  However, you may not submit the same card for more than one concurrent challenge.  That is, if you have submitted a card to one challenge, you may not submit it to another challenge until the results of that first challenge have been announced.
* Do not disclose your submissions publicly, either in this thread or elsewhere

--

The deadline for this week's challenges is Monday, August 20, at 10am EDT.

--

Challenge #11 - Dual-Type Card

Objective: Create a dual-type card.  The complete type specification must be one of the following:

* Action-Victory
* Action-Victory-Reaction
* Action-Attack-Victory
* Action-Duration-Victory
* Treasure-Victory
* Treasure-Reaction
* Victory-Reaction

No other type combinations are eligible.

Official Examples: Great Hall, Nobles, Harem, Island, Tunnel, Fool's Gold.

Official Non-Examples: Everything else.

--

The Ballot
The Results
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 11:12:43 am by rinkworks »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2012, 10:18:52 am »
+1

No love for the ol' action-attack-reaction?

jonts26

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 10:48:36 am »
0

No love for the ol' action-attack-reaction?

That's more than a dual type.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2012, 10:56:23 am »
0

So is action-victory-reaction.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2012, 10:57:09 am »
0

No love for the ol' action-attack-reaction?

That's more than a dual type.
Action-Attack-Victory is just as much so.....

jonts26

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2012, 10:57:29 am »
+1

That's what I get for not reading the post.
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Grujah

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2012, 10:58:57 am »
0

Dual-colored.
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Davio

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 11:01:30 am »
+1

To me Attack and Duration are just subtypes as they appear only on Actions.

The main types I know of are:
Action
Treasure
Victory
Reaction
Curse

(+ whatever is added by Dark Ages)
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2012, 11:14:24 am »
0

Wow, are there really that few official examples? x.x
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2012, 11:17:22 am »
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Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.
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yuma

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 11:43:27 am »
+2

I can already say that I personally will not vote for any durations. In the same way I don't like a potion card being included. Durations are seaside and aren't anywhere else so I think they are not fit for here. 
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 02:10:07 pm »
0

Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.

/me submits Two of All Trades

Just kidding.

The first draft I came up with could get triple-digit points in 12 or so turns, and increasing the price didn't really fix the problem. Kinda glad I thought about it some more :P
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pst

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2012, 03:03:22 pm »
0

To me Attack and Duration are just subtypes as they appear only on Actions.

I see no real reason why a Treasure-Duration wouldn't be possible as well, since Treasure cards also are in play.
It could be something simple as

Down payment
$1
At the start of your next turn: +$2
Treasure - Duration

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razorborne

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2012, 03:20:25 pm »
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why have a complete list of available options, especially when that list is itself incomplete? why not just say it has to be at least two of Action/Reaction, Treasure, and Victory and be done with it? (I suppose you could do curse but that's just weird) if someone can make, say, Action-Treasure work, why not let them?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 10:24:16 am »
+1

why have a complete list of available options, especially when that list is itself incomplete? why not just say it has to be at least two of Action/Reaction, Treasure, and Victory and be done with it? (I suppose you could do curse but that's just weird) if someone can make, say, Action-Treasure work, why not let them?

Because, with Action-Treasure, you need to introduce way too many rules and clarifications with how to actually play it. An Action card is something you play during the Action phase. A Treasure card is something you play during the Buy phase. You would need to write new rules to talk about when you can play an Action-Treasure card. In addition, you would need to add clarifications about how they interact with Peddler, Conspirator, Bank, etc. It could be done, theoretically in Dark Ages or Guilds, but best to leave that big of a change up to Donald.
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gman314

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2012, 11:44:05 am »
0

Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.

Treasure - Action would be a nightmare to balance. If you play it for the Action, you can't play it as a Treasure, but if you want the Treasure, you can't use the Action. (Unless, of course, you make some strange rule allowing it to be played twice on a turn, but that totally changes the rules.) So, the Action and the Treasure portions have to be fairly balanced in value.
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gman314

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2012, 11:45:22 am »
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I would really like to see someone submit the following card:

Wife
$3 Victory - Treasure

Worth $1
1VP
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2012, 11:52:21 am »
0

Harlot was just posted with those stats in Auto-Destruct Sequence's Unnamed Expansion with images as "Harlot". The power has since been increased.
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gman314

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2012, 11:56:58 am »
0

I think that lots of people have had the same idea. Basically to make a weaker version of Harem. On the other side of Harem, how about

Card Name
$9 Victory - Treasure
Worth $3
3VP
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2012, 12:41:23 pm »
+1

why have a complete list of available options, especially when that list is itself incomplete? why not just say it has to be at least two of Action/Reaction, Treasure, and Victory and be done with it? (I suppose you could do curse but that's just weird) if someone can make, say, Action-Treasure work, why not let them?

Because, with Action-Treasure, you need to introduce way too many rules and clarifications with how to actually play it. An Action card is something you play during the Action phase. A Treasure card is something you play during the Buy phase. You would need to write new rules to talk about when you can play an Action-Treasure card. In addition, you would need to add clarifications about how they interact with Peddler, Conspirator, Bank, etc. It could be done, theoretically in Dark Ages or Guilds, but best to leave that big of a change up to Donald.

Meh, I don't think it's that hard.  Either the card is played as an Action, in which case it's treated as an Action for all purposes, or it's played as a Treasure, in which case it's treated as a Treasure for all purposes.  There, I just wrote the really complicated rules.

Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.

Treasure - Action would be a nightmare to balance. If you play it for the Action, you can't play it as a Treasure, but if you want the Treasure, you can't use the Action. (Unless, of course, you make some strange rule allowing it to be played twice on a turn, but that totally changes the rules.) So, the Action and the Treasure portions have to be fairly balanced in value.

Well, this I agree with -- but that's part of the challenge of designing any card.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2012, 12:41:45 pm »
0

Boo, no Treasure - Action?  I had a plan.

Treasure - Action would be a nightmare to balance. If you play it for the Action, you can't play it as a Treasure, but if you want the Treasure, you can't use the Action. (Unless, of course, you make some strange rule allowing it to be played twice on a turn, but that totally changes the rules.) So, the Action and the Treasure portions have to be fairly balanced in value.

I like that idea - making the tough decision of when to play the card. If you want to work with the idea of choice you could make a Treasure/Reaction.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2012, 12:42:07 pm »
+4

I think that lots of people have had the same idea. Basically to make a weaker version of Harem. On the other side of Harem, how about

Your Mother
$9 Victory - Treasure
Worth $3
3VP

FTFY
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AJD

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2012, 03:33:17 pm »
+2

Meh, I don't think it's that hard.  Either the card is played as an Action, in which case it's treated as an Action for all purposes, or it's played as a Treasure, in which case it's treated as a Treasure for all purposes.  There, I just wrote the really complicated rules.

But surely it should be treated as both an Action and a Treasure for all purposes at all times, in line with the general rules of the game. So e.g., if you play it as an Action, it would still feed Bank, and if you play it as a Treasure it would still cut the price of Peddler.

Note also that "played as an Action" and "played as a Treasure" aren't actually defined in the rules, though it's obvious that we mean "played when the rules permit you to play Actions" and "played when the rules permit you to play Treasures", since there are no times when the rules permit both. And we could almost say "during your action phase" and "during your buy phase", if not for Black Market. In fact, I bet that if there were an Action-Treasure that had different effects whether it was played as an action or as a treasure, what the card would say is "if it is your action phase" and "if it is your buy phase", and the interaction with BM would just be screwy.

It's not necessary for an Action-Treasure to have different effects depending on whether it's played as an action or a treasure, though. Consider this:

Quicksilver
Action-Treasure $5
+1 action
+$2

Of course, it's only better than Silver on boards with Minion, Tactician, Conspirator, Peddler, Black Market, and maybe a few other things.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2012, 04:05:25 pm »
+5

So I can't enter this, then?

Escalator Link
$9
Action-Treasure

If played as an Action: +2 Coin, +1 VP
If played as a Treasure: Worth 1 Coin for every treasure you have in play, including this.

Fair enough. I might enter something else.
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Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #11: Dual-Type Card!
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2012, 10:25:29 pm »
+4

So I can't enter this, then?

Escalator Link
$9
Action-Treasure

If played as an Action: +2 Coin, +1 VP
If played as a Treasure: Worth 1 Coin for every treasure you have in play, including this.

Fair enough. I might enter something else.

Very clever joke

For those who don't get it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank-Monument_station
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 05:34:28 am by NoMoreFun »
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