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[LastFootnote]

4 and a hovel with island on the board is going to be the new mint fool's gold - elite opening that you have to be a little lucky to get.

Um, what are you going to do with that opening Island? Set aside a Copper? Setting aside an Overgrown Estate seems lackluster and setting aside a Necropolis is just counterproductive.

[bozzball]

Thanks for running these previews, Donald.  This has been fantastic.  You did say Dark Ages was your favorite set, but I don't think even us die-hards expected you to knock it as far out of the park as it appears to have done.  This expansion changes the whole Dominion world for sure.

This.

[WanderingWinder]

Seems a bit luck-based? I mean, if you open double terminal and pair them with Necro, and opponent doesn't.. And if those terminals are Swindler/Swindler.

I mean, opening with these are totally different story. Well, necropolis mostly.


But is sure going to make Puzzles fun 

Necro diminishes the probability of terminal collision (assuming neither terminal draws) in the first reshuffle hurting you by precisely 1/3. Which knocks it from ~30% to about 20%.

Edit: Hey, I can't do math. Should be precisely 3/10, which knocks you to about 21%.

[GendoIkari]

Thanks for the previews!

Do we know / are we allowed to know if the word "Shelter" at the bottom of those cards actually means anything? My guess would be that there are other Dark Age cards that reference "Shelter" cards; if not, why have a special type at all?

[DStu]

Seems a bit luck-based? I mean, if you open double terminal and pair them with Necro, and opponent doesn't.. And if those terminals are Swindler/Swindler.

I mean, opening with these are totally different story. Well, necropolis mostly.


But is sure going to make Puzzles fun 

Necro diminishes the probability of terminal collision (assuming neither terminal draws) in the first reshuffle hurting you by precisely 1/3.

3/10.

[ehunt]

4 and a hovel with island on the board is going to be the new mint fool's gold - elite opening that you have to be a little lucky to get.

Um, what are you going to do with that opening Island? Set aside a Copper? Setting aside an Overgrown Estate seems lackluster and setting aside a Necropolis is just counterproductive.

If I'm not willing to island a copper on turn 3 with the hand Island Copper Copper Copper Copper (or its evil twin Island Silver Copper Copper Copper) I'm probably not opening island on any board. But yeah, I imagine I'd set aside an overgrown estate or a copper unless I just really did not want +2 actions this game.

[rinkworks]

So shelters are nothing like what I expected (some form of defense).  I don't mind, though.  Starting a game with a +2 Action card sounds like it opens the door for so many strategies.  Looking forward to getting my copy of Dark Ages.  Thanks for all the previews.

I'm not sure. Necropolis certainly is, but the other two? Trash when buying a Victory card and having in hand, how fast will this happen? In a standard game? With GH, Island, ok, but you still don't want to buy Duchies before Provinces, and once you start buying Provinces, it's already quite late, and you likely don't have the Hovel in hand (especially because the fact that you have it in hand reduces the chance that you can afford the Province). And later you don't mind the Estate giving you +1VP all that much.
And the Overgwrown Estate... When you trash it, you get +1card. But it is worth $1 less, so with TFB, it's not really that strong. If at all. Will depend. With Chapel you don't care for the +1card, Steward might want it, opponents Bishop might really like it. Lookout will like it. And when you don't trash, you just have -1VP compared to an Estate.

With no $2 card in the kingdom, you'd probably buy an Estate on a 5/2 opening -- or any other early $2 turn -- with Hovel in hand.  Turning your Hovel into an Estate gives you a point without damaging your deck.

[bozzball]

Seems a bit luck-based? I mean, if you open double terminal and pair them with Necro, and opponent doesn't.. And if those terminals are Swindler/Swindler.

I mean, opening with these are totally different story. Well, necropolis mostly.


But is sure going to make Puzzles fun 

Necro diminishes the probability of terminal collision (assuming neither terminal draws) in the first reshuffle hurting you by precisely 1/3.

3/10.

3/10 is precisely 1/3.

[DStu]

3/10 is precisely 1/3.

For certain values of "precisely"...

[Thisisnotasmile]

Seems a bit luck-based? I mean, if you open double terminal and pair them with Necro, and opponent doesn't.. And if those terminals are Swindler/Swindler.

I mean, opening with these are totally different story. Well, necropolis mostly.


But is sure going to make Puzzles fun 

Necro diminishes the probability of terminal collision (assuming neither terminal draws) in the first reshuffle hurting you by precisely 1/3.

3/10.

3/10 is precisely 1/3.

Trolololol

[ehunt]

(trashing an estate before the first time you shuffle your deck is huge!)

I also imagine a feodum (w/hovel in hand) chapel opening is going to be sick. The great hall/trade route opening went from being a trap to being useful as well.

[DStu]

With no $2 card in the kingdom, you'd probably buy an Estate on a 5/2 opening -- or any other early $2 turn -- with Hovel in hand.  Turning your Hovel into an Estate gives you a point without damaging your deck.

Yepp, but this move does not really convice me that Hovel is stronger than Estate.

[LastFootnote]

Seems a bit luck-based? I mean, if you open double terminal and pair them with Necro, and opponent doesn't.. And if those terminals are Swindler/Swindler.

I mean, opening with these are totally different story. Well, necropolis mostly.


But is sure going to make Puzzles fun 

Necro diminishes the probability of terminal collision (assuming neither terminal draws) in the first reshuffle hurting you by precisely 1/3.

3/10.

3/10 is precisely 1/3.

This is true for very large values of 3/10.

[rinkworks]

4 and a hovel with island on the board is going to be the new mint fool's gold - elite opening that you have to be a little lucky to get.

Um, what are you going to do with that opening Island? Set aside a Copper? Setting aside an Overgrown Estate seems lackluster and setting aside a Necropolis is just counterproductive.

I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that the idea was that when Island is a good opening anyway -- which on some boards it is -- now it's even better when you can get rid of your Hovel when you get it.  Then you can Island your Overgrown Estate (or Copper, even), and by that point you've gotten double the deck-thinning an Island usually does for you.

[rinkworks]

With no $2 card in the kingdom, you'd probably buy an Estate on a 5/2 opening -- or any other early $2 turn -- with Hovel in hand.  Turning your Hovel into an Estate gives you a point without damaging your deck.

Yepp, but this move does not really convice me that Hovel is stronger than Estate.

Oh.  Was that the question?  Agreed.

[WanderingWinder]

Seems a bit luck-based? I mean, if you open double terminal and pair them with Necro, and opponent doesn't.. And if those terminals are Swindler/Swindler.

I mean, opening with these are totally different story. Well, necropolis mostly.


But is sure going to make Puzzles fun 

Necro diminishes the probability of terminal collision (assuming neither terminal draws) in the first reshuffle hurting you by precisely 1/3.

3/10.

How do you get 3/10? Here's how I get 1/3, and tell me where I am going wrong: So, for it to mitigate, you already had to have your terminals colliding. So take those two cards as a given. Then you have 3 cards left in your hand, and if one is the necro, it's mitigated. The chance of NOT getting the necro is (8/9)*(7/8)*(6/7)=6/9=2/3, and 1-2/3 = 1/3.

[Grujah]

Watchtower is awesomer now, with Necropolis. 

[WanderingWinder]

So shelters are nothing like what I expected (some form of defense).  I don't mind, though.  Starting a game with a +2 Action card sounds like it opens the door for so many strategies.  Looking forward to getting my copy of Dark Ages.  Thanks for all the previews.

I'm not sure. Necropolis certainly is, but the other two? Trash when buying a Victory card and having in hand, how fast will this happen? In a standard game? With GH, Island, ok, but you still don't want to buy Duchies before Provinces, and once you start buying Provinces, it's already quite late, and you likely don't have the Hovel in hand (especially because the fact that you have it in hand reduces the chance that you can afford the Province). And later you don't mind the Estate giving you +1VP all that much.
And the Overgwrown Estate... When you trash it, you get +1card. But it is worth $1 less, so with TFB, it's not really that strong. If at all. Will depend. With Chapel you don't care for the +1card, Steward might want it, opponents Bishop might really like it. Lookout will like it. And when you don't trash, you just have -1VP compared to an Estate.

With no $2 card in the kingdom, you'd probably buy an Estate on a 5/2 opening -- or any other early $2 turn -- with Hovel in hand.  Turning your Hovel into an Estate gives you a point without damaging your deck.

Maybe, but I am not so sure. I mean, do you really want that 1 point? Because there is a decent chance that you can get rid of your hovel later on, when you buy a better green card. So, the question is, will that come late enough on average to make it worth it to do this? And that is going to depend on the deck. I don't know the 'general' answer.

[GendoIkari]

Would opening Great Hall with Hovel in hand possibly be a good idea? You basically skip a buy for the ability to play with 1 less dead card. (Plus 1 point!)

[ehunt]

Would opening Great Hall with Hovel in hand possibly be a good idea? You basically skip a buy for the ability to play with 1 less dead card. (Plus 1 point!)

Seems (almost) strictly better than an island open on a traditional board, which is often worthwhile and often not (almost because you get 1 VP less - otherwise strictly better).

[AJD]

So the reason cards that give you +2 actions are called "villages" is because of the idea that you have a village full of people running around and doing stuff for you. A Necropolis is a village of the dead... but somehow it still gives you +2 actions. That's a little creepy.

[LastFootnote]

4 and a hovel with island on the board is going to be the new mint fool's gold - elite opening that you have to be a little lucky to get.

Um, what are you going to do with that opening Island? Set aside a Copper? Setting aside an Overgrown Estate seems lackluster and setting aside a Necropolis is just counterproductive.

I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that the idea was that when Island is a good opening anyway -- which on some boards it is -- now it's even better when you can get rid of your Hovel when you get it.  Then you can Island your Overgrown Estate (or Copper, even), and by that point you've gotten double the deck-thinning an Island usually does for you.

Well, sure. But it seems like in a game where none of your starting deck is worth VP that Island would be a worse opening in general.

[DStu]

How do you get 3/10? Here's how I get 1/3, and tell me where I am going wrong: So, for it to mitigate, you already had to have your terminals colliding. So take those two cards as a given. Then you have 3 cards left in your hand, and if one is the necro, it's mitigated.

So far the same. Now you have 3 spots for the Necro, out from 10 remaining, the Necro is equally likely to be at each position, so the probability is 3/10. Or:

The chance of NOT getting the necro is (9/10)*(8/9)*(7/8)=7/10 and 1-7/10 = 3/10.

FTFY. There was one card lying under the table...

[WanderingWinder]

How do you get 3/10? Here's how I get 1/3, and tell me where I am going wrong: So, for it to mitigate, you already had to have your terminals colliding. So take those two cards as a given. Then you have 3 cards left in your hand, and if one is the necro, it's mitigated.

So far the same. Now you have 3 spots for the Necro, out from 10 remaining, the Necro is equally likely to be at each position, so the probability is 3/10. Or:

The chance of NOT getting the necro is (9/10)*(8/9)*(7/8)=7/10 and 1-7/10 = 3/10.

FTFY. There was one card lying under the table...

Oh hey look, I can't subtract 12-2= 10. I am wondering how I got 9 from this..........

[werothegreat]

I was imagining Shelters would at least reference Looters - otherwise, why even have these two card types?  Every other card type is either referenced (Moat reacts to Attacks) or tells you something fundamental about the card.  Durations stay out, Actions are... well... Actions, etc.  What does Looter tell you?  That you should include Ruins?  Well, having Ruins mentioned on the card kinda already does that for you.  And there's really no point in calling these three cards "Shelters" except for the purpose of the rules saying "In this instance, use Shelters."  Dark Ages better have cards that reference Shelters and Looters.  Even if it's just a card that says "When another player plays a Looter, run screaming into the hills," I will be mollified.