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Author Topic: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils  (Read 174221 times)

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CaptainNevada

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #225 on: August 09, 2012, 07:48:06 pm »
0

If you could ever sustain a pillage attack (such as with a +buys draw engine), you will completely shut down most decks i think. What type of deck could survive it? Maybe a wharf engine?

The trick is sustaining a Pillage attack as the card trashes upon use and unless you pump up your opponents hands (Governor, Council Room, Torturer if they take the curse) it only hits their hands once. 
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engineer

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #226 on: August 09, 2012, 07:50:48 pm »
0

If you could ever sustain a pillage attack (such as with a +buys draw engine), you will completely shut down most decks i think. What type of deck could survive it? Maybe a wharf engine?

Well, probably not a wharf engine, because you only usually get a couple of wharfs due to the terminal nature of the card itself.  I think that any engine which results in a very high action density would be ok: if I have two villages, two smithys and (say) a copper in my hand, I still have a chance at a big turn no matter what card you make me drop.  Minion decks would be another example: as long as I have sufficient density to draw 2 minions in my initial 5-card hand, I'll be ok.

I think this attack could lead to a bit of AP, though: if I have two alchemists and a potion in hand, what do you make me discard?  One of the alchemists or the potion?
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #227 on: August 09, 2012, 07:54:44 pm »
+2

I believe in Pillage we finally have a time where Council Room is strictly better than Margrave.  :P
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #228 on: August 09, 2012, 08:14:01 pm »
+1

If you could ever sustain a pillage attack (such as with a +buys draw engine), you will completely shut down most decks i think. What type of deck could survive it? Maybe a wharf engine?

Well, probably not a wharf engine, because you only usually get a couple of wharfs due to the terminal nature of the card itself.  I think that any engine which results in a very high action density would be ok: if I have two villages, two smithys and (say) a copper in my hand, I still have a chance at a big turn no matter what card you make me drop.  Minion decks would be another example: as long as I have sufficient density to draw 2 minions in my initial 5-card hand, I'll be ok.

I think this attack could lead to a bit of AP, though: if I have two alchemists and a potion in hand, what do you make me discard?  One of the alchemists or the potion?

Double-Tactician would be likely to survive even constant Pillaging relatively unscathed.  I could imagine overbought, dense stacks of Scrying Pool or Hunting Party doing the job too.  Lab-style engines are probably going to have a far easier time of it than +Action/+Card-style engines in general; if one card gives you both draw and +1 Action, then two of them in hand means you won't necessarily be sunk by Pillage.


...Oh, huh.  You know what engine card gives you +Action and can draw lots of cards?  That's right, Scout.  Scout is gonna be boss against Pillage.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #229 on: August 09, 2012, 08:36:21 pm »
+1

If you could ever sustain a pillage attack (such as with a +buys draw engine), you will completely shut down most decks i think. What type of deck could survive it? Maybe a wharf engine?

Well, probably not a wharf engine, because you only usually get a couple of wharfs due to the terminal nature of the card itself.  I think that any engine which results in a very high action density would be ok: if I have two villages, two smithys and (say) a copper in my hand, I still have a chance at a big turn no matter what card you make me drop.  Minion decks would be another example: as long as I have sufficient density to draw 2 minions in my initial 5-card hand, I'll be ok.

I think this attack could lead to a bit of AP, though: if I have two alchemists and a potion in hand, what do you make me discard?  One of the alchemists or the potion?

Double-Tactician would be likely to survive even constant Pillaging relatively unscathed.  I could imagine overbought, dense stacks of Scrying Pool or Hunting Party doing the job too.  Lab-style engines are probably going to have a far easier time of it than +Action/+Card-style engines in general; if one card gives you both draw and +1 Action, then two of them in hand means you won't necessarily be sunk by Pillage.


...Oh, huh.  You know what engine card gives you +Action and can draw lots of cards?  That's right, Scout.  Scout is gonna be boss against Pillage.

Too bad Dark Ages doesn't have any Action/Victory cards.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #230 on: August 09, 2012, 08:45:23 pm »
0

Has anybody actually tried dominion with 6 people?  I have no idea what that would be like.  It seems like the game would be over on piles really quickly, at least if anybody was trying to build an engine.  Is BM the dominant strat with 6 people?

Tried it with 5, I would NOT recommend it to a friend. It may have been the fact that we coupled it with the idea that an all attack game would be hilarious. It was back with only dominion + intrigue, and we at least had the kindness to add moat to the mix. With 5 people before your turn you've been militiad, tortured, swindled and witched. Saboteur was actually painful too because that silver it just trashed was most of your bloody economy. My girlfriend won because she had the forethought to open moat/moat/moat/moat untill the pile ran out. <i>My</i> first moat was hit by an early swindler. <i>shudder</i>
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #231 on: August 09, 2012, 08:55:28 pm »
+3

Upon seeing Pillage my first thought was, "wow, this card has come a long way",

You can almost see the progression. I bet a targeted discard card was one of the first attacks, it was there with the only +buy market. It was a complete powerhouse so he made it a one-shot. But then no one liked it, "you only get to use it once, whats the point?". So then he made it also gain a gold. That was probably a bit too strong, so now it gains you 2 one-shot golds.

It shows you how hard it is to judge the power of a card by just looking at it. I'm excited to try this one out. Also can't wait to Pillage someone's Pillage :D
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #232 on: August 09, 2012, 09:33:39 pm »
0

I believe in Pillage we finally have a time where Council Room is strictly better than Margrave.  :P

Except there are already a lot of times where CR is strictly better than Margrave...
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #233 on: August 09, 2012, 09:38:35 pm »
+1

I think Rats/Vineyard is probably pretty strong. It's a lot like transmute/vineyard (which is one of the best/only uses of transmute in 2p) - yeah, you're going to be sad sometimes cause you can't play the rat cause your hand is full of vineyards and your potion - but because it's a vineyards game, you're happy to be sad sometimes.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #234 on: August 09, 2012, 10:19:18 pm »
+2

1. buy Rats
2. play Rats, gaining more
3. ????
4. PROFIT!!
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #235 on: August 09, 2012, 10:30:00 pm »
0

If you could ever sustain a pillage attack (such as with a +buys draw engine), you will completely shut down most decks i think. What type of deck could survive it? Maybe a wharf engine?

Well, probably not a wharf engine, because you only usually get a couple of wharfs due to the terminal nature of the card itself.  I think that any engine which results in a very high action density would be ok: if I have two villages, two smithys and (say) a copper in my hand, I still have a chance at a big turn no matter what card you make me drop.  Minion decks would be another example: as long as I have sufficient density to draw 2 minions in my initial 5-card hand, I'll be ok.

I think this attack could lead to a bit of AP, though: if I have two alchemists and a potion in hand, what do you make me discard?  One of the alchemists or the potion?

It's similar to an Envoy drawing engine, right? My opponent keeps making me discard the best of the 4, but I just keep playing Envoys and it doesn't matter.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #236 on: August 09, 2012, 10:33:19 pm »
+6

Rats is a card that a newbie sees and thinks "oh cool a cantrip that multiplies and lets me trash" and it is cool..at first..until you have trashed all your bad cards and have a hand full of Rats.

No way.  Newbies think, "Why in the world would I want to trash Coppers?  That's money!  Why would I want to trash Estates?  Those are points!!"
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #237 on: August 09, 2012, 11:13:31 pm »
0

People keep talking about "rats + another trasher"

Rats doesn't combo with chapel btw... its the same speed as just opening chapel/-

You go rats when you can trash a $4 card for bonus benefit e.g. apprentice bonus damage, or remodel into GM, or reach peddlers really fast then remodel those into plats etc.etc.etc.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #238 on: August 09, 2012, 11:16:59 pm »
0

is there some kind of scout joke im not aware of?
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #239 on: August 09, 2012, 11:20:29 pm »
+3

is there some kind of scout joke im not aware of?

Scout is one of the most powerful cards in the game.  Players who know this tend to make jokes about how it is mediocre at best; some even suggest that it is terrible!  It's hilarious when newbies take it to heart, and later get crushed by a giant Scout mega-turn engine that buys out Provinces on turn 9.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #240 on: August 09, 2012, 11:24:05 pm »
+1

is there some kind of scout joke im not aware of?

Scout is one of the most powerful cards in the game.  Players who know this tend to make jokes about how it is mediocre at best; some even suggest that it is terrible!  It's hilarious when newbies take it to heart, and later get crushed by a giant Scout mega-turn engine that buys out Provinces on turn 9.

Yes, I bought the last Province using the other four Provinces Scout made me draw.  (Because I have Secret Chamber)

Actually, now that I've said that, I'm thinking Donald X has probably made a card that does something like that (without doing the Secret Chamber thing)...
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #241 on: August 09, 2012, 11:29:49 pm »
0

Rats is a card that a newbie sees and thinks "oh cool a cantrip that multiplies and lets me trash" and it is cool..at first..until you have trashed all your bad cards and have a hand full of Rats.

No way.  Newbies think, "Why in the world would I want to trash Coppers?  That's money!  Why would I want to trash Estates?  Those are points!!"

You're right. Most of these cards are not newbie friendly, this expansion is definitely not coming out when I teach new players.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #242 on: August 09, 2012, 11:32:59 pm »
+1

Rats is a card that a newbie sees and thinks "oh cool a cantrip that multiplies and lets me trash" and it is cool..at first..until you have trashed all your bad cards and have a hand full of Rats.

No way.  Newbies think, "Why in the world would I want to trash Coppers?  That's money!  Why would I want to trash Estates?  Those are points!!"

You're right. Most of these cards are not newbie friendly, this expansion is definitely not coming out when I teach new players.

Maybe Sage, if any.  Poor House or Feodum would be stretching it.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #243 on: August 09, 2012, 11:40:31 pm »
0

Rats is a card that a newbie sees and thinks "oh cool a cantrip that multiplies and lets me trash" and it is cool..at first..until you have trashed all your bad cards and have a hand full of Rats.

No way.  Newbies think, "Why in the world would I want to trash Coppers?  That's money!  Why would I want to trash Estates?  Those are points!!"

You're right. Most of these cards are not newbie friendly, this expansion is definitely not coming out when I teach new players.

I don't think I've seen a single newbie friendly card in this expansion, yet. Okay, I guess Feodum counts, but it's an alt VP card. That would be like me saying that because this set has a Village, it's newbie friendly. Speaking of Villages, I wonder what kind of Village effect we will get. I'm sure Ruined Village won't be the only Village in the set. I'm also wondering what the Curser will be like. My guess is a curser that gives you the choice to give a curse from the trash pile if a curse is in the pile.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #244 on: August 09, 2012, 11:42:19 pm »
+1

Rats is a card that a newbie sees and thinks "oh cool a cantrip that multiplies and lets me trash" and it is cool..at first..until you have trashed all your bad cards and have a hand full of Rats.

No way.  Newbies think, "Why in the world would I want to trash Coppers?  That's money!  Why would I want to trash Estates?  Those are points!!"

You're right. Most of these cards are not newbie friendly, this expansion is definitely not coming out when I teach new players.

I don't think I've seen a single newbie friendly card in this expansion, yet. Okay, I guess Feodum counts, but it's an alt VP card. That would be like me saying that because this set has a Village, it's newbie friendly. Speaking of Villages, I wonder what kind of Village effect we will get. I'm sure Ruined Village won't be the only Village in the set. I'm also wondering what the Curser will be like. My guess is a curser that gives you the choice to give a curse from the trash pile if a curse is in the pile.


Madman?  Squire?  What more do you need?  Something explicitly called a Village?
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #245 on: August 09, 2012, 11:43:07 pm »
0

Rats is a card that a newbie sees and thinks "oh cool a cantrip that multiplies and lets me trash" and it is cool..at first..until you have trashed all your bad cards and have a hand full of Rats.

No way.  Newbies think, "Why in the world would I want to trash Coppers?  That's money!  Why would I want to trash Estates?  Those are points!!"

You're right. Most of these cards are not newbie friendly, this expansion is definitely not coming out when I teach new players.

I don't think I've seen a single newbie friendly card in this expansion, yet. Okay, I guess Feodum counts, but it's an alt VP card. That would be like me saying that because this set has a Village, it's newbie friendly. Speaking of Villages, I wonder what kind of Village effect we will get. I'm sure Ruined Village won't be the only Village in the set. I'm also wondering what the Curser will be like. My guess is a curser that gives you the choice to give a curse from the trash pile if a curse is in the pile.


Madman?  Squire?  What more do you need?  Something explicitly called a Village?

Well, obviously :P
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #246 on: August 09, 2012, 11:44:34 pm »
0

Rats is a card that a newbie sees and thinks "oh cool a cantrip that multiplies and lets me trash" and it is cool..at first..until you have trashed all your bad cards and have a hand full of Rats.

No way.  Newbies think, "Why in the world would I want to trash Coppers?  That's money!  Why would I want to trash Estates?  Those are points!!"

You're right. Most of these cards are not newbie friendly, this expansion is definitely not coming out when I teach new players.

I don't think I've seen a single newbie friendly card in this expansion, yet. Okay, I guess Feodum counts, but it's an alt VP card. That would be like me saying that because this set has a Village, it's newbie friendly. Speaking of Villages, I wonder what kind of Village effect we will get. I'm sure Ruined Village won't be the only Village in the set. I'm also wondering what the Curser will be like. My guess is a curser that gives you the choice to give a curse from the trash pile if a curse is in the pile.


Madman?  Squire?  What more do you need?  Something explicitly called a Village?

Okay, I will give you Squire. Madman is kind of newbie friendly, especially since it comes from a Workshop variant and most newbies like Workshop.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #247 on: August 10, 2012, 12:04:01 am »
0

Pillage looks sooooo cool
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #248 on: August 10, 2012, 12:56:54 am »
+1

It's not so hard to imagine Rats playing decently. How about opening Rats/Hermit?
Turn 3: Rat an Estate and gain a Rats. Buy a Conspirator.
Turn 4: Hermit a Rats out of the discard for +1 Card. Gain a Sage. Buy a Sage. (0 cards left in deck for fresh reshuffle.)

Or how about Rats and Jacks as a deck type? Play a Rat and decrease your hand size, then Jack for more cards and trash a Rats for +1 more Card. Your deck might become very dense on Silvers yet very light on Coppers.

Maybe start Rats/(non-terminal)Silver, going big money until you hit $7 for Forge and then being very aggressive with it. Some turns you Forge two Rats for a Province and with the +2 Cards afford a Gold, Duchy, or second Province.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #249 on: August 10, 2012, 01:00:34 am »
0

It's not so hard to imagine Rats playing decently. How about opening Rats/Hermit?
Turn 3: Rat an Estate and gain a Rats. Buy a Conspirator.
Turn 4: Hermit a Rats out of the discard for +1 Card. Gain a Sage. Buy a Sage. (0 cards left in deck for fresh reshuffle.)

Or how about Rats and Jacks as a deck type? Play a Rat and decrease your hand size, then Jack for more cards and trash a Rats for +1 more Card. Your deck might become very dense on Silvers yet very light on Coppers.

Maybe start Rats/(non-terminal)Silver, going big money until you hit $7 for Forge and then being very aggressive with it. Some turns you Forge two Rats for a Province and with the +2 Cards afford a Gold, Duchy, or second Province.

I doubt the first plan would work well.  You're just going to get a lot of Rats.

I like the Rats-Jack idea, though I wonder if the Silver gain will outpace the Rats gain.  Hopefully Jack keeps Rats in check, but it's hard to say.  Jack might just draw you back up to a full hand of Rats.  It probably works though.

Forge has been brought up.  Hard to say if it can get going.
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