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Author Topic: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils  (Read 174186 times)

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Squeek

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #150 on: August 09, 2012, 01:17:46 pm »
0

Imagine if shelters was an action that read "place this shelter on a pile in the supply.  It must be gained before gaining any cards beneath it." with a cost of 2.

The implication would be tremendous, although games may never end.
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joel88s

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #151 on: August 09, 2012, 01:19:32 pm »
0

Also, I really, really hope that there is some sort of Pied Piper card.

Pied Piper
Action - $3

Reveal a card from your hand.  Reveal cards from your deck until you've revealed four duplicates of the card from your hand.  Trash all the duplicates, trash the revealed card from your hand, and discard the rest of the revealed cards.

In this context that card sounds like 'Exterminator'.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #152 on: August 09, 2012, 01:23:51 pm »
+1

Pied Piper
$4 - Victory-Action

You may gain a Rats in hand.  Reveal any number of Rats from your hand.  Return them to the supply; each other player gains that number of Rats.

This is worth 1 VP for every 2 Rats in another player's deck.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #153 on: August 09, 2012, 01:28:50 pm »
0

Rats might be worse than Scout, but I'll have to play hundreds of game to know for sure.

Why does that make you sad? Sounds like fun times to me!
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #154 on: August 09, 2012, 01:32:10 pm »
+3

I'd like to see what Lord Bottington does with Rats.  Better yet, I want Robz to write a diary entry about it.
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zahlman

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #155 on: August 09, 2012, 02:00:52 pm »
0

Though, hey, it is sorta cool, if you get 2 rats and no cards in your deck (i.e. you've drawn them all), you CAN gain the whole pile at once: play a rats, draw nothing, get an action, gain a rats, (can't trash a rats, so at least you still have that); play a rats, draw the rats, get an action, gain a rats, can't trash rats, rinse and repeat.

You'll end up trashing probably everything else in your hand, though. And then what are you going to do with them all? I guess this is just something you do in order to pile out?
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CaptainNevada

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #156 on: August 09, 2012, 02:12:02 pm »
0

Rats is stronger at $4 than it would be at $2. It's main strength will be turning your Coppers, Estates, and Curses into Rats, and then using trash-for-benefit cards to trash the Rats. Since Rats cost more than Coppers and Estates, the benefit will be greater (plus you get +1 Card).

Rats almost certainly are far more attractive on a trash for benefit board.  I wonder if it would be possible to Duchy / Duke rush with Rats and Remake.
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shMerker

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #157 on: August 09, 2012, 02:13:04 pm »
+5

Combo Rats with Trader to make a rat ranch. Whenever a new rat is born trade it for silver. Then trade the adults for four silvers a piece. See how awesome the trader is? He can even sell Rats.

Rats could help grease a scrying pool deck by replacing your starting cards with actions.

And they turn upgrade into essentially +2 Cards +1 Action. Gain a card costing $5. That's pretty cool.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #158 on: August 09, 2012, 02:15:26 pm »
0

I think part of the idea of rats is that they can be used as weapons too. Use Masquerade or Ambassador to hand them over to another player, preferably one who is using Throne Room or Golem and may end up being forced to play them. Or swindle their $4s into Rats.
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CaptainNevada

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #159 on: August 09, 2012, 02:18:18 pm »
0

Somewhere in Dominion there has to be a variant on the old proposition about cat skins being worth money, so they'll breed cats.  And feed them rats, which breed rats.  To feed the cats they'll feed them the rats, and the rats will eat the cats (minus the skins) so they'll get the cat skins for nothing.

Perhaps Develop is that scheme.  You get Rats and the Rats multiply.  So you Develop the rats into a Duchy (profit!) and a cost costing $3.  What do you feed the Rats?  Why the card costing $3 you got for free when you killed the Rat and went along with your profit (Duchy). 
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #160 on: August 09, 2012, 02:22:10 pm »
+1

Somewhere in Dominion there has to be a variant on the old proposition about cat skins being worth money, so they'll breed cats.  And feed them rats, which breed rats.  To feed the cats they'll feed them the rats, and the rats will eat the cats (minus the skins) so they'll get the cat skins for nothing.

Perhaps Develop is that scheme.  You get Rats and the Rats multiply.  So you Develop the rats into a Duchy (profit!) and a cost costing $3.  What do you feed the Rats?  Why the card costing $3 you got for free when you killed the Rat and went along with your profit (Duchy).

Develop!  Now the best $3, thanks to Dark Ages!
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dondon151

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #161 on: August 09, 2012, 02:30:31 pm »
+4

The rats are so adorable
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engineer

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #162 on: August 09, 2012, 02:39:29 pm »
0

Nah, you guys are missing the beauty of rats.  Rats are not really trashers -- every card that's trashed is replaced with a rat.  But rats do temporarily turn all your trash cards into cantrips, at least until you start to run low on trash targets.  But even if it's only for a couple of shuffles, having cantrips instead of dead cards could be exactly the help you need to get to your real trasher.  And, as a bonus, when you do trash the rats, you get some cards, though you'll probably be drawing dead since most trashers are terminals.

The point is, you obviously need an actual trasher in conjunction with rats, but rats grease the wheels for you: they cycle your deck, putting that trasher in your hand more often.  I think this will allow you to clear garbage from your deck much faster than normal. 
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zahlman

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #163 on: August 09, 2012, 02:45:37 pm »
0

Nah, you guys are missing the beauty of rats.  Rats are not really trashers -- every card that's trashed is replaced with a rat.  But rats do temporarily turn all your trash cards into cantrips, at least until you start to run low on trash targets.  But even if it's only for a couple of shuffles, having cantrips instead of dead cards could be exactly the help you need to get to your real trasher.  And, as a bonus, when you do trash the rats, you get some cards, though you'll probably be drawing dead since most trashers are terminals.

The point is, you obviously need an actual trasher in conjunction with rats, but rats grease the wheels for you: they cycle your deck, putting that trasher in your hand more often.  I think this will allow you to clear garbage from your deck much faster than normal.

I second the previous suggestion for Apprentice.
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Grujah

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #164 on: August 09, 2012, 02:46:08 pm »
0

Squire/Pillage.

Nice.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #165 on: August 09, 2012, 02:48:32 pm »
+2

Nah, you guys are missing the beauty of rats.  Rats are not really trashers -- every card that's trashed is replaced with a rat.  But rats do temporarily turn all your trash cards into cantrips, at least until you start to run low on trash targets.  But even if it's only for a couple of shuffles, having cantrips instead of dead cards could be exactly the help you need to get to your real trasher.  And, as a bonus, when you do trash the rats, you get some cards, though you'll probably be drawing dead since most trashers are terminals.

The point is, you obviously need an actual trasher in conjunction with rats, but rats grease the wheels for you: they cycle your deck, putting that trasher in your hand more often.  I think this will allow you to clear garbage from your deck much faster than normal.

Except that if you're doing this, you may be forced to trash the trasher as soon as you draw it.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #166 on: August 09, 2012, 02:49:51 pm »
+1

Nah, you guys are missing the beauty of rats.  Rats are not really trashers -- every card that's trashed is replaced with a rat.  But rats do temporarily turn all your trash cards into cantrips, at least until you start to run low on trash targets.  But even if it's only for a couple of shuffles, having cantrips instead of dead cards could be exactly the help you need to get to your real trasher.  And, as a bonus, when you do trash the rats, you get some cards, though you'll probably be drawing dead since most trashers are terminals.

The point is, you obviously need an actual trasher in conjunction with rats, but rats grease the wheels for you: they cycle your deck, putting that trasher in your hand more often.  I think this will allow you to clear garbage from your deck much faster than normal.

Except that if you're doing this, you may be forced to trash the trasher as soon as you draw it.

That's if you let your deck clog up with Rats.  If you draw a hand with 5 rats, you may as well resign.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #167 on: August 09, 2012, 02:55:55 pm »
+1

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Squeek

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #168 on: August 09, 2012, 02:59:14 pm »
0

Rules question:  when you use a trash for benefit on a card that has a benefit when trashed,  which benefit happens first?

Eg: your hand contains a rat, a remodel, and a watch tower.  You remodel the rat into a gold and reveal the watch tower to put it on your deck.  Do you get the +1 card for trashing the rat before or after gaining the gold?
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #169 on: August 09, 2012, 03:03:53 pm »
+1

Rules question:  when you use a trash for benefit on a card that has a benefit when trashed,  which benefit happens first?

Eg: your hand contains a rat, a remodel, and a watch tower.  You remodel the rat into a gold and reveal the watch tower to put it on your deck.  Do you get the +1 card for trashing the rat before or after gaining the gold?

Remodel has two steps:
1) Trash a card.
2) Gain a card.

The +1 Card effect from Rats is simultaneous with step 1) from Remodel.

So, you Remodel the Rats.  Rats is trashed, draw 1 card.  Gain a Gold, Watchtower it to your deck.
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Insomniac

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #170 on: August 09, 2012, 03:05:51 pm »
+1

Looking forward to

Remodeling a rats, drawing a card, gaining a border village, gaining a cultist
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #171 on: August 09, 2012, 03:10:10 pm »
0

And they turn upgrade into essentially +2 Cards +1 Action. Gain a card costing $5. That's pretty cool.

Actually Upgrade becomes +1 Card +1 Action Gain a card costing $5. After you play Upgrade, draw a card for it, trash a Rats from hand, and draw a card for that, you are left with 5 cards in hand, not 6.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #172 on: August 09, 2012, 03:13:57 pm »
+3

I think part of the idea of rats is that they can be used as weapons too. Use Masquerade or Ambassador to hand them over to another player, preferably one who is using Throne Room or Golem and may end up being forced to play them. Or swindle their $4s into Rats.
People say this, but guys, realize you can choose to NOT play the rats. In which case, they're slightly better confusions. And nobody buys CURSES to masq over, let alone these, and as for ambassador - well, gee, if you've already done the curses, have 4 money and a buy to spend on one of these, I guess you can do that, but uh, well, shouldn't you be busy winning the game instead?

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #173 on: August 09, 2012, 03:31:09 pm »
0

Rats won't be worse than scout. At the very least, Rat/Trash-for-benefit will be a powerful combo, with a few different TFBs fitting pretty well into that slot.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #174 on: August 09, 2012, 03:33:48 pm »
+1

I think part of the idea of rats is that they can be used as weapons too. Use Masquerade or Ambassador to hand them over to another player, preferably one who is using Throne Room or Golem and may end up being forced to play them. Or swindle their $4s into Rats.
People say this, but guys, realize you can choose to NOT play the rats. In which case, they're slightly better confusions. And nobody buys CURSES to masq over, let alone these, and as for ambassador - well, gee, if you've already done the curses, have 4 money and a buy to spend on one of these, I guess you can do that, but uh, well, shouldn't you be busy winning the game instead?

Swindler to give them Rats is a fair point, though.
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