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[GendoIkari]

Rats with gardens is lovely, btw..

Rats with gardens is a terrible nombo! You don't gain an extra card from playing rats; unless every card in your hand is a rats.

[lespeutere]

Rats with gardens is lovely, btw..

Rats with gardens is a terrible nombo! You don't gain an extra card from playing rats; unless every card in your hand is a rats.

-1 for me

[WanderingWinder]

So, since Robz hasn't posted yet... I feel this urge to ask and answer "But how do these cards combo with scout?"
Well, Rats is easy - they trash all of those ugly treasures and actions, so your scouts will draw all of your delicious victory cards for you.
Pillage, well that lets you get rid of your opponents' scouts from their hands, so at least it's good in the mirror.
And spoils don't sit around clogging your deck up, so once you use them once, they won't interfere with your scouts grabbing that green for you. Also, since you only use them once, they encourage you to buy green right now, so go scout! Better than gold!

[AdamH]

I wonder if having rats around would be useful in a cursing game. Use rats to get curses out of your deck. Sure, they become dead cards in the endgame when you're afraid to play them without a curse to trash, but they're no deader than the curses you had in the first place, and they aren't worth -1VP.

Either that, or I'm totally wrong. Probably that one.

[mnavratil]

Rats maybe is an actual combo with scout. Either draw that estate into hand for prompt rat trashing, or re-arrange your cards to draw that card you want to trash. Okay, maybe a stretch there, but it is scout afterall.

EDIT: Oh, and of course rats love to eat scouts. So there's that.

[Kuildeous]

It seems that Pillage is not an effective counter to Possession.

"I'll just play your hand. Oh, look, a Pillage. I guess I'll choose this Estate to discard. And you may keep Pillage after this hand, but I get two Spoils, thankyouverymuch."

[Ventura Highway]

Pillage-->Spoils is probably NOT a great move on a possession board - since Spoils get returned to the Spoils pile rather than trashed after their one-off use, a possessor could rob you of your Spoils (and get the benefit!) in an Ambassador-esque fashion.

[ashersky]

Mint + Spoils would be another way to gain them, if you really wanted them.

I'm also guessing that simulators will like Pillage/Spoils + BMU a lot.

[rinkworks]

Rats intrigues me, largely because I don't understand why you'd want it.  You only want it on boards with other trashing, right?  Or eventually you'll have tons of Curse-equivalents in your deck.  But if you have other trashing, why do you want Rats?  Seems like the +1 Card on-trash bonus of Rats isn't really enough.  I'm not saying it isn't, just that it seems like it isn't.  Very definitely looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

[ashersky]

Rats intrigues me, largely because I don't understand why you'd want it.  You only want it on boards with other trashing, right?  Or eventually you'll have tons of Curse-equivalents in your deck.  But if you have other trashing, why do you want Rats?  Seems like the +1 Card on-trash bonus of Rats isn't really enough.  I'm not saying it isn't, just that it seems like it isn't.  Very definitely looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

I might buy it to Ambassador/Masquerade to people.  It's like a 0VP, self-propagating Estate.

New sport: Rats Tennis.

[lespeutere]

Mint + Spoils would be another way to gain them, if you really wanted them.

I'm also guessing that simulators will like Pillage/Spoils + BMU a lot.

I'd say it needs to be in the supply (which it isn't) to be gainable with mint.

[DG]

Curses seem to have taken a downgrade with the cards revealed so far. I'll suggest forge and rats as the most promising combo, although you still need to careful how you find 7 coins for that forge before the rats eat your deck.

[werothegreat]

Mint + Spoils would be another way to gain them, if you really wanted them.

I'm also guessing that simulators will like Pillage/Spoils + BMU a lot.

I'd say it needs to be in the supply (which it isn't) to be gainable with mint.

Mint does not mention the supply.  I'd say Mint those Spoils!

Rats with gardens is lovely, btw..

Rats with gardens is a terrible nombo! You don't gain an extra card from playing rats; unless every card in your hand is a rats.

The Rats will eat your Gardens.  Nom nom nom.

[Cuzz]

Mint + Spoils would be another way to gain them, if you really wanted them.

I'm also guessing that simulators will like Pillage/Spoils + BMU a lot.

I'd say it needs to be in the supply (which it isn't) to be gainable with mint.

This is a good question. Certainly you can't gain a Diadem with Mint, but there's only one of those...

[ashersky]

Mint + Spoils would be another way to gain them, if you really wanted them.

I'm also guessing that simulators will like Pillage/Spoils + BMU a lot.

I'd say it needs to be in the supply (which it isn't) to be gainable with mint.

This is a good question. Certainly you can't gain a Diadem with Mint, but there's only one of those...

While we're at it, could we Mine copper into Spoils?  Mine doesn't mention the supply either...!

[mnavratil]

Didn't we decide that 'Gain' implicitly means 'Gain from the supply' which would mean that Mint/Mine wouldn't work?

[AJD]

Mint + Spoils would be another way to gain them, if you really wanted them.

I'm also guessing that simulators will like Pillage/Spoils + BMU a lot.

I'd say it needs to be in the supply (which it isn't) to be gainable with mint.

This is a good question. Certainly you can't gain a Diadem with Mint, but there's only one of those...

This came up when we were talking about Madman yesterday. If a card says to gain something, it means from the supply unless otherwise specified; and Mint just says "gain", so if it's not in the supply you can't mint it.

[ashersky]

Possible non-combo: Venture + Spoils.  I imagine there are times you'd want to save that Spoils for later.

[WanderingWinder]

Rats intrigues me, largely because I don't understand why you'd want it.  You only want it on boards with other trashing, right?  Or eventually you'll have tons of Curse-equivalents in your deck.  But if you have other trashing, why do you want Rats?  Seems like the +1 Card on-trash bonus of Rats isn't really enough.  I'm not saying it isn't, just that it seems like it isn't.  Very definitely looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

The only thing that comes to mind is if you have some kind of TFB, a la remodel, salvager, forge, apprentice, expand, graverobber, upgrade, possibly remake, etc., where rats can mow through your deck faster, and then you turn these into something. Though, I guess I say mow through your deck quicker, but on each play of rats, you are just replacing a card with a rats (rather than thinning), and gee, I don't know how good a trade that is.

[werothegreat]

Island/Gardens rush, hiding all your Gardens away on Islands, then just keep Ratting it up.  If you empty the whole pile, each Gardens will be...  2 VP each...  but it seems like a sensible rush.

[WanderingWinder]

Mint does not mention the supply.  I'd say Mint those Spoils!

Maybe this is another 'joke', but workshop doesn't mention the supply either, and you can't gain followers with it, or a not-in-the-kingdom fishing village, or....

[Kuildeous]

Didn't we decide that 'Gain' implicitly means 'Gain from the supply' which would mean that Mint/Mine wouldn't work?

Otherwise, you could Mint a Hoard that you bought from the Black Market. Or get two copies of Ambassador from the Black Market when you play your Talisman. And so on.

[Malaprop]

I am wondering what the iteractionn of Rats is with Lookout.  Lookout says "+1 Action, Look at the top
3 cards of your deck. Trash one of them. Discard one of them. Put the other one on top of your deck."
Because of the "look at" function there is no accountability on what you do first: trash, discard, place.
Is there supposed to be an order to those three?  If not I guess Lookout + Rats in one of the 3 top cards
would make Lookout function as a cantrip with you actually getting the card you place on top.

[lespeutere]

Didn't we decide that 'Gain' implicitly means 'Gain from the supply' which would mean that Mint/Mine wouldn't work?

That's what I was referring to. Same for squire: you shouldn't be able to gain followers.

[WanderingWinder]

I am wondering what the iteractionn of Rats is with Lookout.  Lookout says "+1 Action, Look at the top
3 cards of your deck. Trash one of them. Discard one of them. Put the other one on top of your deck."
Because of the "look at" function there is no accountability on what you do first: trash, discard, place.
Is there supposed to be an order to those three?  If not I guess Lookout + Rats in one of the 3 top cards
would make Lookout function as a cantrip with you actually getting the card you place on top.

I am not understanding what you mean there, but if it helps, you do things in the order the card tells you to. So trash, then discard, then place.