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Author Topic: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils  (Read 125586 times)

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Grujah

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2012, 09:27:31 am »
+1

Opponent plays Pillage. You reveal a hand of all rats.
Is that a good or a bad thing?
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Wolphmaniac

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2012, 09:27:45 am »
0

Rules question:  The first thing on Rats is +1card, +1 action.  So I do that first before gaining another Rats, yes?  So if the card I draw is my Watchtower, I can then reveal the Watchtower to trash the incoming Rats.  Is that correct?
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mharris717

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2012, 09:27:51 am »
0



I was just thinking this morning that there would probably be another cantrip trasher in this expansion! It seemed like Dominion needed one besides Upgrade. Oh Rats!

Lookout is a cantrip trasher. Well, as much as Upgrade is anyways. They both leave you with an action and a 4 card hand after you play them.

Not really, you don't get to replace a bad card in your hand with a random card.  Your deck velocity is lower with lookout. 
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2012, 09:28:44 am »
+1

also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.
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Turambar

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 09:29:03 am »
0

Ehm, when you play Spoils you have to return it to the supply pile. So I'll play a spoils and 4 coppers, but before buying anything I have to return the Spoils. So that seems to leave me with 4 money to buy with.

Naturally this isn't the correct interpretation, but it seems the obvious one from the wording. Why not say "When you discard this in clean-up phase"? To avoid combo with herbalist and bank?

No, once you play a treasure it gives you money, doesn't matter if it is picked up later.

Like, if you buy mandarin and your treasures goes back on deck, you still have all the money it provided if you have more buys.

Well, yeah if you read my entire post you see I agree with you. My point was mainly that it is a bit confusing (especially to noobs) having to remember how many spoils you have played, and it seems more clean to just return in discard phase. Hence the question, is it that important to avoid combo with herbalist and bank? (And potenially other cards I don't think of now).
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2012, 09:29:22 am »
+1

Somehow I just realized that Spoils are likely to be a common Pillage target
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yudantaiteki

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2012, 09:29:46 am »
0

Ehm, when you play Spoils you have to return it to the supply pile. So I'll play a spoils and 4 coppers, but before buying anything I have to return the Spoils. So that seems to leave me with 4 money to buy with.

Naturally this isn't the correct interpretation, but it seems the obvious one from the wording. Why not say "When you discard this in clean-up phase"? To avoid combo with herbalist and bank?

No, once you play a treasure it gives you money, doesn't matter if it is picked up later.

This seems to be one of the most misunderstood rules in the game, probably because it doesn't matter pre-Prosperity (I think?)  Many people get into the habit of thinking that a Silver is "worth 2" rather than the correct rule, which is that Silver gives you +2$ when you play it (which is no different from the +2$ you get from a Militia or whatever).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2012, 09:31:17 am »
0

Ehm, when you play Spoils you have to return it to the supply pile. So I'll play a spoils and 4 coppers, but before buying anything I have to return the Spoils. So that seems to leave me with 4 money to buy with.

Naturally this isn't the correct interpretation, but it seems the obvious one from the wording. Why not say "When you discard this in clean-up phase"? To avoid combo with herbalist and bank?


No, once you play a treasure it gives you money, doesn't matter if it is picked up later.

Like, if you buy mandarin and your treasures goes back on deck, you still have all the money it provided if you have more buys.


Well, yeah if you read my entire post you see I agree with you. My point was mainly that it is a bit confusing (especially to noobs) having to remember how many spoils you have played, and it seems more clean to just return in discard phase. Hence the question, is it that important to avoid combo with herbalist and bank? (And potenially other cards I don't think of now).

no different than remembering how many mining villages you trashed, or how many pawns you played for +$1.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 09:32:59 am by GendoIkari »
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AJD

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2012, 09:34:16 am »
+1

Ehm, when you play Spoils you have to return it to the supply pile. So I'll play a spoils and 4 coppers, but before buying anything I have to return the Spoils. So that seems to leave me with 4 money to buy with.

Naturally this isn't the correct interpretation, but it seems the obvious one from the wording. Why not say "When you discard this in clean-up phase"? To avoid combo with herbalist and bank?


No, once you play a treasure it gives you money, doesn't matter if it is picked up later.

Like, if you buy mandarin and your treasures goes back on deck, you still have all the money it provided if you have more buys.


Well, yeah if you read my entire post you see I agree with you. My point was mainly that it is a bit confusing (especially to noobs) having to remember how many spoils you have played, and it seems more clean to just return in discard phase. Hence the question, is it that important to avoid combo with herbalist and bank? (And potenially other cards I don't think of now).

no different than remembering how many mining villages you trashed, or how many pawns you played for +$1.

(which are both also kind of annoying....)
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wrathofmine

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2012, 09:35:25 am »
+1

So if you have Rats problems... call an Hermit
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Cuzz

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2012, 09:37:01 am »
+4

also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.

KC-KC-Council Room-Pillage-Militia. Leave opponent with 3rd--5th best of 8 cards. And gain 6 one-shot golds.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2012, 09:37:19 am »
+2

Rats should be called Relentless Rats.

And they should give +x cards, +x actions, where x is the number of Relentless Rats you have played this turn.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2012, 09:38:44 am »
+1

also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.

KC-KC-Council Room-Pillage-Militia. Leave opponent with 3rd--5th best of 8 cards. And gain 6 one-shot golds.

4th-6th best, actually!
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KMueller

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2012, 09:40:24 am »
0

Somehow I just realized that Spoils are likely to be a common Pillage target

Other than the fact that they are always on the board together, why would Spoils be more common to discard than gold, bank, powerful attack cards, etc?
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Cuzz

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2012, 09:40:59 am »
0

also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.

KC-KC-Council Room-Pillage-Militia. Leave opponent with 3rd--5th best of 8 cards. And gain 6 one-shot golds.

4th-6th best, actually!

Ah, but of course. It's still early 'round these parts.
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KMueller

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2012, 09:41:56 am »
0

also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.
Are we sure about this interpretation?
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lespeutere

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2012, 09:44:51 am »
+1

Rules question:  The first thing on Rats is +1card, +1 action.  So I do that first before gaining another Rats, yes?  So if the card I draw is my Watchtower, I can then reveal the Watchtower to trash the incoming Rats.  Is that correct?

I'd say yes. Meaning that you can draw another card cause you just trashed a rats, right?
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carstimon

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2012, 09:45:36 am »
+1

I want to play with rats really badly!  It seems really hard to balance in your deck.  Especially because you want lots of trashing early, but little trashing late... and rats does exactly the opposite.

also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.
Are we sure about this interpretation?
Yes.
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michaeljb

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2012, 09:45:57 am »
0

also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.
Are we sure about this interpretation?

Yes. It's the same as Throne Rooming a Feast and picking up 2 5-costers.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2012, 09:46:11 am »
+1

also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.
Are we sure about this interpretation?

I don't see a whole lot of room for question. Look at Feast.

*NINJA'D*
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Donald X.

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2012, 09:46:49 am »
+2

Rules question:  The first thing on Rats is +1card, +1 action.  So I do that first before gaining another Rats, yes?  So if the card I draw is my Watchtower, I can then reveal the Watchtower to trash the incoming Rats.  Is that correct?

I'd say yes. Meaning that you can draw another card cause you just trashed a rats, right?
Yes and yes.

Pillage does not say "if you do," the only thing holding Throne etc. in check there is that it only hits opponents with 5+ cards in hand.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2012, 09:47:10 am »
0

Rules question:  The first thing on Rats is +1card, +1 action.  So I do that first before gaining another Rats, yes?  So if the card I draw is my Watchtower, I can then reveal the Watchtower to trash the incoming Rats.  Is that correct?

I'd say yes. Meaning that you can draw another card cause you just trashed a rats, right?

Yes and yes. Thus why Rats + Watchtower is awesome.

*Ninja'd by Donald X; with identical wording!*
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Tombolo

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2012, 09:48:47 am »
+2

Rats looks fun, but I'm having trouble thinking of boards where I would WANT to start that domino effect.  Upgrade?  Watchtower?  Bishop?  Apprentice?

Also I gotta say that I really enjoy the tone Donald X. uses for these.  ;D
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 09:49:50 am by Tombolo »
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Schneau

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2012, 09:51:30 am »
0

I was just thinking this morning that there would probably be another cantrip trasher in this expansion! It seemed like Dominion needed one besides Upgrade. Oh Rats!

Lookout is a cantrip trasher. Well, as much as Upgrade is anyways. They both leave you with an action and a 4 card hand after you play them.

From the Dominion Lingo Dictionary:

Cantrip:  Any card that gives at least +1 Card, +1 Action; it costs no action to spend it and it replaces itself in the hand.  Can technically refer to Villages, but in practice usually refers to cards like Spy.

Lookout doesn't replace itself with +1 Card.
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lespeutere

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2012, 09:52:04 am »
0

Rats looks fun, but I'm having trouble thinking of boards where I would WANT to start that domino effect.  Upgrade?  Watchtower?  Bishop?  Apprentice?

Just counted: technically, there were 21 cards that may trash action cards before dark ages, + graverobber and hermit from this expansion. However, if it's something like chapel, you won't need rats for trashing, right? So I'd add salvager, develop, trader (?)

Rats with gardens is lovely, btw..
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 10:01:29 am by lespeutere »
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