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[Rush_Clasic]

Werewolf (4)
Action
Gain a card costing up to 4 and put it on top of your deck.
-----
Play this card flipped every time you would play it in a turn beyond the first.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Action - Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
Each other player gains a Curse card.


Moon (3)
Victory - Reaction
2VP
-----
Whenever a player plays a Werewolf card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, choose one: you are unaffected by that Werewolf card this turn; or discard this and that Werewolf card gets played again.

• We're getting a bit wild today. Werewolves are about as wild as it gets!
• Moon is like Potion: whenever you play with Werewolf, you play with Moon. It gets added as an extra Kingdom pile (or can be included as a standard one if you like).
• A lot of this idea is borrowed from Magic. But rather than it look like this, I imagine it'd look like this.
• The second half has no cost or name of its own. I can't be played unless you've played that Werewolf once already this turn. That does mean it can work off a Throne Room or King's Court.
• The +1 Action might be too good. It's the first thing I'd take off if so.
• I decided to make Moon a counter to Werewolf and a Victory card to make it a worthwhile purchase for people not using this strategy. Then again, having a Moon might make you want a Werewolf anyway.
• I'm showing this idea much more as a "possibility" rather than a "this card needs to exist now!" The feedback to the concept is what matters. I have a way simpler, very flavorful idea I can give Werewolf instead, but it isn't as much of a conversation piece.

[eHalcyon]

I think your wording is a little strange.  I don't understand "play this card flipped" -- probably something out of MTG that I don't get.

I think I do understand the intent though, so I suggest a Crossroads-style wording:

If this is the first time you played a Werewolf this turn, gain a card costing up to $4 and put it on top of your deck.  Otherwise:
+1 Card, +1 Action, each other player gains a Curse.


In general, I think the idea is fine and fairly interesting.  I would criticize the initial Werewolf action -- gaining a card is not really thematic.  I don't have an alternative to suggest, but I would say that it should remain terminal.

I also kind of think that "Moon" doesn't quite fit the Dominion flavour either.  Can't think of a good replacement for that either.

[Rush_Clasic]

I think your wording is a little strange.  I don't understand "play this card flipped" -- probably something out of MTG that I don't get.

The idea is that the card would have a frame similar to this:



You would only be able to play the top half unless the werewolf was "active". The reasons for doing this were two-fold: (1) so the original isn't an attack and doesn't trigger some reactions I don't want it to; and (2) so I could make only half of the card work at a time. Well, I suppose (3) it's also thematic.

I think I do understand the intent though, so I suggest a Crossroads-style wording:

If this is the first time you played a Werewolf this turn, gain a card costing up to $4 and put it on top of your deck.  Otherwise:
+1 Card, +1 Action, each other player gains a Curse.

There's a very good chance I'd go with that wording in most cases. I wanted to show off this idea of a card having two halves and see what merit people thought it had. And as I said above, there's a few reasons for making it that way (though I definitely see the appeal and reasons for doing it the way you posted).

In general, I think the idea is fine and fairly interesting.  I would criticize the initial Werewolf action -- gaining a card is not really thematic.  I don't have an alternative to suggest, but I would say that it should remain terminal.

It needed to be simple. Something short to type and something any human could do. Before they turn, that is.

I also kind of think that "Moon" doesn't quite fit the Dominion flavour either.  Can't think of a good replacement for that either.

Ya, I agree. I was going to use "Moonlit ..." but didn't fill that ... with anything I liked.

[Schneau]

The main problem I see is that this card isn't worthwhile to buy on a board without Villages (or TR, KC, Golem, or Moon). A decent percent of games don't include these cards, making this card a more expensive Workshop. I would suggest making the normal side just +1 Action. That way, it would only be worth playing if you can play 2 in a turn, but once you hit the second it's a very powerful curser. Otherwise, this card is a dud in too many games.

[Rush_Clasic]

The main problem I see is that this card isn't worthwhile to buy on a board without Villages (or TR, KC, Golem, or Moon). A decent percent of games don't include these cards, making this card a more expensive Workshop. I would suggest making the normal side just +1 Action. That way, it would only be worth playing if you can play 2 in a turn, but once you hit the second it's a very powerful curser. Otherwise, this card is a dud in too many games.

Moon is always in the game if Werewolf is. I clarified that in the blurb (which, admittedly, was rather long). It's like Potions for Alchemy cards.

[One Armed Man]

I prefer eHalcyon's wording. I am trying to come up with a better "bane" for the Werewolf, since if you get Moons and miss once, your deck has a bunch of crappy victory cards and a curse in it instead of cards that help you buy stuff.

What about:
Moon
Action-Reaction
3
Draw 3 cards. Discard 2 cards or one Curse.
-----
Whenever a player plays a Werewolf card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, choose one: you are unaffected by that Werewolf card this turn; or discard this and that Werewolf card gets played again.

[Rush_Clasic]

I prefer eHalcyon's wording. I am trying to come up with a better "bane" for the Werewolf, since if you get Moons and miss once, your deck has a bunch of crappy victory cards and a curse in it instead of cards that help you buy stuff.

The "bane" that works thematically is Silver. The other version of the card I'm thinking of uses that in a much simpler fashion, but I was trying to get feedback on the general ideas going on up there.

[One Armed Man]

A Curser that is laughed off by Big Money might not be the best thing in the world. It probably needs to be tested.

[razorborne]

A Curser that is laughed off by Big Money might not be the best thing in the world. It probably needs to be tested.

wouldn't have to be that simple. "Each player may discard a silver. If he doesn't, he gains a curse."

[One Armed Man]

I am confused. Why wouldn't that be simple? What are you implying I said?

[razorborne]

I am confused. Why wouldn't that be simple? What are you implying I said?

I was assuming you were talking about "that player may reveal a silver", which Big Money just giggles at. whereas discard means they have to consider the cost of losing $2 on their next turn even if they have the silver, which means Big Money can't just laugh it away, especially in the early game.

[One Armed Man]

Oh, sorry. Discarding a silver is usually worse than taking a curse. That plan wouldn't hold up to more than one opponent attacking you. Maybe:

Each other player can discard a silver or 3 cards. If a player does, they draw a card. Otherwise, they gain a Curse.

[Mown]

I have a feeling that it could be way too easy to accidentally or intentionally flip the card back again when you put it in your discard pile, depending on how you shuffle.

[Grujah]

I have a feeling that it could be way too easy to accidentally or intentionally flip the card back again when you put it in your discard pile, depending on how you shuffle.

Doesn't matter. Flip depends on the state of play area.

[zahlman]

... What's wrong with "If this is the first time you have played Werewolf this turn, <human effects>. Otherwise, <wolf effects>."?

[Rush_Clasic]

I answered that a few times, but it was mostly so reactions that respond to attacks wouldn't activate on the initial play. And to be a bit more thematic. If the first isn't a real issue (which it might not be), I'd go with that wording. Still, the point was whether an effect like this could be worth it.

[zahlman]

so reactions that respond to attacks wouldn't activate on the initial play.

Well, they would, since you played an Attack card after all, but I don't see how it's a real problem. With most Reactions, you'd be able to play them again against the next play of Werewolf anyway, and the ones that you can't, you'd get the same benefit by playing it now as by waiting. Plus, "you are unaffected by the attack" does nothing if the Attack doesn't actually attack anyway. I mean maybe you could make an argument that you don't want Horse Traders or Secret Chamber to activate against someone who is only capable of playing Werewolf once this turn anyway, but...

[Rush_Clasic]

so reactions that respond to attacks wouldn't activate on the initial play.

Well, they would, since you played an Attack card after all...

The top half isn't an attack card. Only the bottom half is, and the card is only played as one half at a time.

...but I don't see how it's a real problem.

I wouldn't say it's a problem. Just a feature I was curious about.

[zahlman]

so reactions that respond to attacks wouldn't activate on the initial play.

Well, they would, since you played an Attack card after all...

The top half isn't an attack card. Only the bottom half is, and the card is only played as one half at a time.

I meant, under the proposal not to bother with this card-flipping business.

[Mown]

I have a feeling that it could be way too easy to accidentally or intentionally flip the card back again when you put it in your discard pile, depending on how you shuffle.

Doesn't matter. Flip depends on the state of play area.

I assumed you would turn the card upside down after having used it one time, meaning it would be a workshop the first time you played it and a curser all the other times it comes around.
In that case, I think the card is rather hard to interpret. Is it "Play this card flipped if you have played another Werewolf"? Because to me, it sounds like it cares about how many times you have played the specific card itself.

Another note: You specifically said that the other half doesn't have a name. Wouldn't that mean that Moon is unable to function properly in blocking the attack?
This might just be me being too used to magic wording, I don't know.

[razorborne]

This might just be me being too used to magic wording, I don't know.

we're taking over

anyway, I think he meant it doesn't have its own name. as in, it's still werewolf.

that said, the thing Mown is describing is way cooler. I'm not sure how to implement it, since differentiating between different copies is tricky, but maybe just have it be a one-time thing? like "if you've played a werewolf this game, instead do this" so the first werewolf calls his pack and then they just go full on hunt mode. in that case, though, I'd change the workshop to a strict "gain a werewolf". then once you do they become familiars.

[Mown]

If you wanted to do that, it would probably be better to just use the Hermit -> Madman way.