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[ednever]

Branching off from yesterday's thread. Same rules apply. Post your prediction for the new cards based on first day. Ideally without reading other's commentary. Look back in 6 months and laugh at your folly.

My predictions:

Cultist:
Great card like almost all attack cards. It parallels witch, giving out ruins instead of curses. Ruins are (obviously?) not as bad as curses, most of the time. Which means he needs some other advantages (the same way Mountebank needs disadvantages since he gives out a copper as well). Of his two additional advantages:
(1) Chaining: Allows you to over-buy Cultist in a way you don't witch. It means those ruins will come out faster than curses
(2) Trashing benefit: You generally want to TFB your witch after the curses are done. Here you REALLY want to trash your cultuist - even with a normal trashier, not a TFB.
Result: You rush cultists off the top, especially if there is a trasher. Without a trasher you likely pick up three. With a trasher you likely keep going until the ruins are finished.

Feodum:
I love alt-VP. This is no different. With a facilitator I think it is massively powerful (I've run through the Silver pile with Trader before. Now it becomes a rush). How many Silvers are available all of a sudden takes on a whole new importance.
This will be in the same class as Vineyards (better than Silk Roads and Gardens and Fairgrounds) - since Silvers are pretty damn good all on their own.
Interesting that it conflicts with the cards that came out yesterday. Sage and Poor House really DON'T want Silver.....


Ed

[werothegreat]

I'm just going to keep editing my post in the first thread...

[Robz888]

I predict that Cultist will be equivalent, or stronger, than Witch and Mountebank. It's not junking your opponents decks quite as strongly, but the self-synergy chaining aspect (and late game trash) more than makes up for it.

Feodum strikes me as not as strong as Gardens or Silk Road.

[Jfrisch]

cultist, seems... quite strong, fairly clear you really want stacks of them, so sort of like minion. Feel like they could work well as a sort of engine enable with village, very fun. A (pseudo)lab-junker just has to be amazing. Better when you already have a big hand/several so likes sifters/non-term drawers. Probably reasonably good for engines
Feodum definitely more niche than other alt-vp cards (9 silvers to make it a duchy, 12 for 4) the trashing ability will need something to combo with it. Feels like you will need to design your deck specifically around it being good to get value out of it. In an ordinary, say, BM game, I can't imagine it getting to 3 all that often and if it doesn't work for BM it clearly doesn't work in general. Obviously some nice synergy with remodel/expand/salvager... but still.

[chwhite]

Okay, if this bit gets a thread for each day too, I'll crosspost again.

Feodum: Ew.  Ew ew ew ew ew ew.  I really don't like that this card exists in this form at ALL.  I mean, sure of course there has to be a Treasure-counting alt VP card, but Silver-only still doesn't sit right with me even after Donald's explanation.  He excluded Copper because it would be too similar to Gardens, but Silk Road already plays very similar to Gardens anyway, so since when is that a disqualifying factor?  And I don't see why Kingdom Treasures need to be excluded, you don't always want them.  (Heck, sometimes I don't want Gold.)

As for the pinata ability, it's a double-edged sword.  Trashing Feodum for benefit for the Silvers and not actually going Feodum is, I suspect, going to be pretty slow and not necessarily better than just buying Silver to begin with.  C.f. Treasure Map, which is a bad card that gets you four golds when you line it up: and lining up Feodum/Trasher is easier, but the immediate benefits are far lower, too.  If you trash Feodum to get Silvers to feed your other Feodums, that's a tough tradeoff too.  What it does do, however, and I am frustrated just thinking about it, is throw a kick in the teeth of denial strategies.  For example, Bishop is a great Gardens counter, but if you're going for a slim Bishop deck you may not be as able to just blithely buy and trash Feodums.

Obviously, it's going to be great with Silver-gainers like B-crat and Explorer; I suspect a Jack deck will still just want to go Province anyway, though I could see it possibly grabbing Feodums over Duchy in the endgame.  In general this is a card that is going to be ill-suited to rush strategies, and instead feature mostly as cheap Duchies in silver-flood decks that get most of their points from Province.  I can also predict with confidence that I'm going to hate this card.

Cultist: I don't see how this can be anything but super strong.  While Ruins don't hurt nearly as much as Curse, a self-chainable junk-giving card that can find itself, and then gives you a bonus late-game when the Ruins are depleted, is going to dominate games nearly as much as Witch.  (This is because the fact Curse being a dead card is usually even more harmful than the -1 VP.)  I suspect chaining Cultists is going to be not very common in practice, because if all the players go Cultist like they probably should your deck is going to get junked up and it'll be hard to line them up often.  The when-trash bonus, however, is going to be really nice in games with trashing, which balances the fact that the presence of trashing is obviously going to take the sting off of Ruins a bit when it exists.

Ruined Market:  Yeah, as mentioned by others this is actually probably one of the more useful Ruins.  These things may not be as bad as Curse, but I sure as heck won't want a deck full of them.

[eHalcyon]

I'm just going to keep editing my post in the first thread...

Same. Pretty sure that was the original intent.  We don't need two new threads for every preview...

[Young Nick]

I don't like these Ruinses that much from what I can tell. Just like with Black Market, it's swing-y. Assuming four of the five are +$1, +1 buy, +1 card, and +1 action, some are easily better than others. The fifth might be a lucky +1 VP, who knows. But, if I'm building an engine deck, I'm much happier with the +1 buy than the +1 action. And that I can get one but my opponent, who is mirroring me, gets another, is very frustrating. It introduces more of what I don't like in this game (lack of equal opportunity gaining), joining Tournament and Black Market in that regard.

In terms of power, I'd say that Cultist is about equal to Witch. The chaining and card draw is very nice, but I doubt there will be much chaining before the Ruin pile is gone. The trashing is nice. The Ruins still clog up the deck like the Curses, but the VP difference is non-negligible. I'd put it at moderately worse than Witch given the currently available cards, though if DA has more trashing, it will probably be equal to Witch.

I bet Ruined Market will be one of the better, if not the best, Ruinses.

Feodum seems to make games boring, with lots of money. It likes Trader, Trusty Steed, and boring decks, obviously. I think it will be very good in BM games. Buy 'em early, and then trash them as necessary and buy Silver without remorse if you are too clogged. It's not really rush-worthy because having means of trashing is paramount, and it's not necessary. If you can get five of the eight, and trash two, you'll have late game tempo advantage (from lack of two VP's and six more Silver) and the more valuable Feodums. I'd say it's almost a must-buy in BM games that feature some sort of trashing (Masquerade, Salvager, Apprentice, etc.).

[jsh357]

Ruins seem like they will put a major dent in Hunting Party decks (though it'll still be great for filtering past them).  This is probably a good thing. 

[Archetype]

I'm very confident that the other Ruins cards will be:

+2$
+2 Cards
+2 Actons


Not +1 whatever like everyone else has been saying.

[werothegreat]

I'm very confident that the other Ruins cards will be:

+2$
+2 Cards
+2 Actons


Not +1 whatever like everyone else has been saying.

A terminal Silver for $0?  I'd buy those by the assload.

[chwhite]

+2 Cards and +$2 are way, way, way too good to be Ruins.  The existence of Moat and Duchess is proof of that.

I expect the Ruined Village will just be +1 Action for consistency's sake, even though it would be no better than Confusion 90 percent of the time.

The last one is probably going to either trash or gain, with pretty severe limitations/penalties either way.

[Archetype]

I'm very confident that the other Ruins cards will be:

+2$
+2 Cards
+2 Actons


Not +1 whatever like everyone else has been saying.

A terminal Silver for $0?  I'd buy those by the assload.

I wouldn't, unless I have lots of unused buys and actions.

Besides, I'm assuming you can only buy the top card of the Ruins pile. And, since they're randomly shuffled, there is no way you can consistently buy them.

[blueblimp]

+2 Cards and +$2 are way, way, way too good to be Ruins.  The existence of Moat and Duchess is proof of that.

+$2 is too good (Duchess) because +$ is good in a clogged deck. +2 cards would be fine, since it's missing moat's reaction, and it'll draw ruins dead anyway. In engine decks, I'd prefer +1 buy over +2 cards, often.

[Archetype]

+2 Cards and +$2 are way, way, way too good to be Ruins.

Donald said some Ruins would be better than others.

[jonts26]

How about a self-trashing ruin. Just

Ruined Something
Trash this card

Only clogs your deck once assuming you want to spend the action to do so. Or maybe

Ruined Mine
Trash this card and gain a copper.

[jsh357]

How about a self-trashing ruin. Just

Ruined Something
Trash this card

Only clogs your deck once assuming you want to spend the action to do so. Or maybe

Ruined Mine
Trash this card and gain a copper.

Ruined Chapel
You may trash a card from your hand that is not a Ruins.

[Archetype]

That Ruined Mine is a good idea. It might be the Ruind version of the terminal money card.

[Beyond Awesome]

Here are my thoughts

Feodum--Great on the right board. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Salvager with this one.
In my opinion works best with Jack, Salvager, Watchtower, and Trader. Jack probably loves it the most because it will make getting Provinces even quicker. Trader would work second best. I know some will disagree, but I still think going for Provinces is the better strategy unless it's a cursing board. Hmm, I don't know. Hard to judge, but it's clear this is a decent Alt. VP card.

Cultist--If Witch and this were on the board, I would pick this and get Witch later. The chaining effect is just too big to ignore. I'm not sure where it ranks among Mountebank and Witch, but I'm sure this is among the top three $5 cards. The best? Perhaps, only time and testing will tell.

Ruins--I'm sure Ruined Market is the best card which is why Donald X. showed that one first. I think the other predictions for +$1, +1 Action, and +1 card are spot on. The fifth one will be interesting. I think the concept is cool and offering an alternative junk option is interesting. Imagine a board with both a looter and a curser!!! Although, that would be a painfully slow game. So, now that I think of it, my predictions are that Shelters cost $2 and are worth 0 or 1 VP and are a reaction that you reveal and prevent getting a ruins. I think this is necessary for games with both curses and Looters on boards. Who knows, maybe shelters can prevent you from getting curses as well.

This is shaping up to be a good set. I think this will add a lot of complexity and strategy like Hinterlands did. This might actually be the most strategic set ever so far.

[chwhite]

+2 Cards and +$2 are way, way, way too good to be Ruins.

Donald said some Ruins would be better than others.

Maybe Ruined Market is one of the better ones.

[DG]

There will be many defense strategies against ruins that are not available against curses.

[Archetype]

+2 Cards and +$2 are way, way, way too good to be Ruins.

Donald said some Ruins would be better than others.

Maybe Ruined Market is one of the better ones.

You have a point there. We'll just have to see what other Ruins are released and see.

[Razzishi]

There will be many defense strategies against ruins that are not available against curses.

Specifically a card that was previewed yesterday: Graverobber.  "Trash a Ruins; gain a Silver". 

[shraeye]

A terminal Silver for $0?  I'd buy those by the assload.

Strategically sound or not, this is still a hilarious phrase.  If you haven't laughed out loud yet, you haven't read it properly.