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Author Topic: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market  (Read 184352 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #150 on: August 07, 2012, 11:31:49 am »
0

Indeed. Upgrade and Lookout will both be great here; because they are the (so far) non-terminal trashers.

Also apprentice.

Oh man, how could I forget Apprentice! Especially since that's going to be an awesome use for Cultists! It's as good as trashing a Province, without the loss of points!
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chwhite

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #151 on: August 07, 2012, 11:33:18 am »
0

Indeed. Upgrade and Lookout will both be great here; because they are the (so far) non-terminal trashers.

Also apprentice.

Technically Loan and Spice Merchant too, but obviously they don't work on Cultists.
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Gansura

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #152 on: August 07, 2012, 11:40:15 am »
0

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

IT JUST DAWNED ON ME

SHELTERS PROTECT YOU FROM LOOTERS





i.e.

Shelter
Victory-Reaction
$2
0 VP

When another player plays a Looter card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you are unaffected by that Looter.

Or similarly, Shelter
Victory-Action
$2
0 VP

You may trash a ruins.
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Varsinor

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #153 on: August 07, 2012, 11:40:43 am »
0

So can +1 action, KC turns it into a village minus the draw

No, TR would turn the +1 action ruin into a village minus the draw. With KC, it's a Crossroads minus the draw.
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michaeljb

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #154 on: August 07, 2012, 11:41:10 am »
0

Upgrade a Cultist into a Gold, Watchtower it, draw it along with 2 other cards.

I'm not sure if you can do that, actually... I think that when you play Upgrade, first you trash the Cultist. At that moment you have to choose to draw 3 cards; before you have gained anything from Upgrade. Then you gain a card, then you can reveal Watchtower.

My vote is that the watchtower reaction goes along with the trashing event, then comes the drawing three cards, so you could get that gold

Not sure exactly what you're saying, but Gendo definitely has it right...Watchtower reacts to gaining a card, which doesn't happen until definitely after the trashing.

Quote from: Upgrade
+1 Card, +1 Action, Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

The card you trash could be Cultist, which then immediately makes you draw 3 cards, before you have a chance to gain a different card.
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michaeljb

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #155 on: August 07, 2012, 11:41:59 am »
0

If the Shelter is going to not be worth any points, what's the point of making it a Victory type card? Just to make it feel better replacing Estate or something?
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #156 on: August 07, 2012, 11:42:57 am »
+3

If the Shelter is going to not be worth any points, what's the point of making it a Victory type card? Just to make it feel better replacing Estate or something?

So it can count towards Silk Roads?  So Scout can put it in your hand?
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DStu

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #157 on: August 07, 2012, 11:43:09 am »
+3

If the Shelter is going to not be worth any points, what's the point of making it a Victory type card? Just to make it feel better replacing Estate or something?

For Scout obviously...
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Warrior

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #158 on: August 07, 2012, 11:44:25 am »
0

Cultist: This is an interesting card. The effect cultist has is similar to witch with the fact it lets you draw 2 cards, and hand out a junk card. In a way, cultist doesn't seem as powerful as witch because the ruins don't seem to hurt as bad as curses. On the other hand, having the ability to chain cultists could result in emptying the whole ruins pile in just a few turns, causing your opponent's deck(s) to all of a sudden be flooded with a load of nearly useless cards. If a cultist chain is set up correctly (we'll figure out how to do that in a couple weeks), it may be more powerful in "junking" your opponent than witch because of how fast you can do it. If you think about it, without witch's curse effect, the card itself is worse than a moat. That's why its important to hand out as much junk as possible, and then hopefully TFB (trash for benefit) the witch. This seems to be done easier with the cultist, because of the opportunity to chain and load your oppenent's deck(s) with ruins, AND you get +3 cards when you trash the cultist, which is actually a pretty nice effect. I still have to say witch may be more powerful because the curses it distributes are just more harmful than ruins, but cultist's ability to get the damage done fast will (probably) make it a good attack to use quickly, then trash it after the "ruining" is done.
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Warrior

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #159 on: August 07, 2012, 11:45:53 am »
0

So when exactly is the date Dark Ages available to buy? Or are we still waiting for the release date?

Well it's technically available to buy now; I've pre-ordered my copy from Boards & Bits (edit: and I know there are some other sites taking pre-orders on it now). It's supposed to actually release at a gaming convention (pretty sure it's GenCon but not sure enough to just say it :P) next week, with general availability (hopefully) soon to follow.

thanks @michaeljb
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michaeljb

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #160 on: August 07, 2012, 11:46:10 am »
+1

If the Shelter is going to not be worth any points, what's the point of making it a Victory type card? Just to make it feel better replacing Estate or something?

For Scout obviously...

Right, of course! I should have thought of that, I mean, I've seen Robz's posts  ;D
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chwhite

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #161 on: August 07, 2012, 11:46:28 am »
+4

Now, what everybody was really wondering--how do these cards combo with Scout? (That's all I care about.)

Feodum is a Victory card, and Scout works on Victory cards. Perfect! That's called synergy, people.
Cultist gives other players Ruins cards. Scout can't scoop up Ruins cards (not that we know of... yet). But Scout can't scoop up Curses either! So really it's no worse.
Ruined Market gives you another Buy. That way, you don't just buy Scout. You can buy something else, too.

It's going to be hilarious when one of the previewed cards actually combos with Scout.
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dor

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #162 on: August 07, 2012, 11:49:43 am »
0

So can +1 action, KC turns it into a village minus the draw

No, TR would turn the +1 action ruin into a village minus the draw. With KC, it's a Crossroads minus the draw.

Not exactly, since a non-drawing village (like a non-activated Shanty Town) leaves you with 4 cards in hand while TR+RV with only three. The same goes for KC+RV
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #163 on: August 07, 2012, 12:01:05 pm »
+2

So, regarding the witch v cultist thing. Some of it will depend on what that last ruins is, obviously. If it's, like, good or something, then you take witch for sure; if it's uh, REALLY bad, like the -2 VP thing, you are going to be more skewed to cultist. BTW, is anyone else realizing how WEIRD it will be to have the supply being somewhat unknown /aside. Anyhow, if we just assume those don't exist, or are like confusions or something, I think witch definitely wins the head-to-head. Why? In a nutshell, curses will run, ruins will run, and BAM, you're staring at a three pile ending, and hey look, those -10 VP from the curses are important, I think probably even more important than the potential chaining, with the junk getting slung around, but I could be wrong.
In general, I am less sure. I mean, they do different things. But the lab-possible effect will help engines with cultist a lot more than witch; it's just.... I mean, how good is a stack of labs anyway? It is good, don't get me wrong, but not great; well, the attack does a lot, and the trashing might, but really TFB is what you want for that. But it's nice to have a non-ambassador junking attack that works in engines a good bit better than BM! So I'm quite with chwhite here, I would guess it is somewhere in the 6-10 range for 5-costers (well, there may be more strong 5s coming here! so let's say closer to 10), but it all really depends on what that last ruins is.

popsofctown

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #164 on: August 07, 2012, 12:03:26 pm »
+1

I dislike the randomly ordered ruins pile :/  I know there are going to be times I care what's second from top
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DWetzel

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #165 on: August 07, 2012, 12:04:11 pm »
+3

If a cultist chain is set up correctly (we'll figure out how to do that in a couple weeks),

1. Buy lots of Cultists.
2. Play one.
3. ???
4. Profit!

would be roughly my guess.  Seriously, aside from the obvious tricks to top-deck stuff, "buy more cultists" and "have less other cards in your deck" would pretty much be the gist of how to chain them.

It seems to really be a card that will snowball to a ridiculous degree though, possibly even worse than cursing attacks, and I think I'll despise games playing with it.



 
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DWetzel

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #166 on: August 07, 2012, 12:06:29 pm »
0

Bizarro question for the day:

Can Ruins show up in the Black Market deck?  That'd suck almost as bad as getting Treasure Map.



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dor

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #167 on: August 07, 2012, 12:08:51 pm »
+1

Bizarro question for the day:

Can Ruins show up in the Black Market deck?  That'd suck almost as bad as getting Treasure Map.

They can't, because they are not part of the kingdom cards, just as Curses, Potions and Platinums can't.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 12:09:52 pm by dor »
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« Reply #168 on: August 07, 2012, 12:10:36 pm »
0

Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.

+1 card has no redeeming qualities, either.
Well there's a difference.  Ignore KC, TR, conspirator, HoP, peddler, etc.  Then there's no reason to play the +action.  There's no detriment.
Sometimes, however, you do want to play the +1 card.

I think the distinction is that "+1 Buy" enables you to get some benefit out of having the card in your deck, however niche a situation it might be when you want it.  But "+1 Card" (combos with specific other cards aside) only ever gives you what you would have had if you hadn't had it in the first place, so it doesn't really help.

+1 Card - Eats your action.
+1 Action - Eats a card slot.
+1 Buy - Gives you +Buy!  Now I can get two Provinces!
+$1 - Gives you a coin!  Now I can afford one Province!

Now, nothing says that all the Ruins cards have to be potentially useful, nor that they need to be roughly equivalent in strength.  But there IS a fundamental difference between the first two, which require combos to do anything for you, and the last two, which are simply meager benefits.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. All of them but the +1 Action one "eat" your action. And all but the + Card one "eat a card slot. All of them need some sort of combo to actually be useful. I don't see why +$1 is considered a "meager benefit" and +1 Card isn't. +$1 might be better than +1 Card most of the time, since it won't draw your other ruinses dead, but it's not a ton better, though I guess you might also buy it in a Minion or other draw-up-to-X deck with enough villages. But it's not fundamentally a whole lot different.
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jonts26

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #169 on: August 07, 2012, 12:11:52 pm »
+3

Page 7 and no one has said it:

1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!

EDIT: And the profit goes on top of your deck.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 12:13:17 pm by jonts26 »
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pauley_walnuts

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #170 on: August 07, 2012, 12:14:20 pm »
0

Page 7 and no one has said it:

1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!

You missed a step of revealing Watchtower a few more times to put all those silvers on top. ;)
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Tdog

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #171 on: August 07, 2012, 12:14:57 pm »
0

Ruined Curse: -2 VP  :o
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pauley_walnuts

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #172 on: August 07, 2012, 12:16:52 pm »
0

Ruined Curse: -2 VP  :o

I don't know. You can't really have a ruined curse since it isn't a physical structure.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #173 on: August 07, 2012, 12:17:51 pm »
0

Page 7 and no one has said it:

1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!

EDIT: And the profit goes on top of your deck.
I saw steps 1-3 in another thread.
It is a really interesting combo though, maybe as good (at least close) as the trader one.

jonts26

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #2: Feodum, Cultist, Ruined Market
« Reply #174 on: August 07, 2012, 12:19:05 pm »
0

Page 7 and no one has said it:

1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!

EDIT: And the profit goes on top of your deck.
I saw steps 1-3 in another thread.
It is a really interesting combo though, maybe as good (at least close) as the trader one.

Too many threads! How can I keep up?
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