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Author Topic: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur  (Read 14659 times)

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Blooki

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Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« on: July 28, 2011, 05:50:04 am »
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This one is quite the doozy. I reserve the right to keep amending the constraints to redirect people towards the intended spirit of the puzzle.

Our Villain and our Hero are playing a two-player Dominion game and our Villain has our Hero right where he wants him. After playing several other cards, our Villain plays Throne Room-Saboteur sabotaging your lone Province to pulp, but failing to sabotage ANYTHING else. Dejected, our Villain immediately ends his turn. Our Hero looks down at his hand and sees 4 Estates and a 5th card and then proceeds to end and win the game, to our Villain's absolute horror. What's the highest VP total our Hero can end the game with?

All mats are empty. There are no tokens or duration cards currently in play. There are no Islands set aside. There are no Bridges, Universities, Jesters, Masquerades, Black Markets in the kingdom. There are no cards in the trash other than the Hero's Province. All rules of Dominion apply (i.e. 10 kingdom cards --- 2 of which are TR & Saboteur, 10 copies of each fewer than 3 empty piles to start Hero's turn, at least 7 Coppers & 3 Estates in Hero's deck).

By my estimate, my initial solution is 472 VP. I'm sure there are mistakes in my solution, but I think the ballpark should be around there.

Hint #1: What card can interact with Saboteur?

Hint #2: My intended solution involves an attack card as the 5th card accompanying the Estates.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 08:36:10 am by Blooki »
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2011, 06:06:58 am »
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Note: When this was posted, the puzzle involved having only 1 card in hand due to double-torturer and and being KC-KC-KC-KC-Sab-Sab-Sab'd, which hit absolutely nothing in your deck. All 3 of these cards had to be in the kingdom, leaving space for only 7 others.

The hero's deck contains 7 Vineyards, 10 Cellars, 9 Chapels, 9 Moats, 9 Courtyards, 9 Pawns, 8 Secret Chambers, 8 (+3 starting) Estates, and any number of Coppers. He holds a Potion in his hand. He buys a Vineyard to end the game on piles (Vineyards, Cellars, Estates). He scores 54/3 x 8 = 18 x 8 = 144 for Vineyards. 11 for Estates. Grand total of 155 VP.

Obviously, I've just picked the first 7 $2-cost actions from the card lists on DominionStrategy.com. These could be any $2-cost actions.

Alternatively He's already got an arbitrary number of VP tokens from past Monument plays and so there is no limit to the solution

These solutions assume a 2 player game.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:22:09 am by Thisisnotasmile »
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 06:10:02 am »
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The hero's deck contains 7 Vineyards, 10 Cellars, 9 Chapels, 9 Moats, 9 Courtyards, 9 Pawns, 8 Secret Chambers, 8 (+3 starting) Estates, and any number of Coppers. He holds a Potion in his hand. He buys a Vineyard to end the game on piles (Vineyards, Cellars, Estates). He scores 54/3 x 8 = 18 x 8 = 144 for Vineyards. 11 for Estates. Grand total of 155 VP.

Obviously, I've just picked the first 7 $2-cost actions from the card lists on DominionStrategy.com. These could be any $2-cost actions.

Alternatively He's already got an arbitrary number of VP tokens from past Monument plays and so there is no limit to the solution

Not bad. My solution is different, though you've touched upon a very key cog in my solution. I haven't tallied the points of mine yet.

Regarding your second statement, there is a limit to the solution because I stipulated no tokens prior to the start of our Hero's turn.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 06:18:05 am »
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Ah. No tokens in play. I thought we were talking trade route/embargo. My mistake.

I also might have thought of a way to improve on my solution, will add it up and post it up if it is better.

Edit: Actually, I don't think that's worth pursuing because I was thinking of having something like Shanty Town in my hand to start, and playing a lot of my $2-cost actions before buying a load more, and already having the whole Vineyard stack. However that means I've got 1 less $2-cost stack to play with. It MIGHT be possible to get over 57 actions this way, but it's going to be a lot more long winded than I first thought.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 06:25:45 am by Thisisnotasmile »
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 06:20:59 am »
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Ah. No tokens in play. I thought we were talking trade route/embargo. My mistake.

I also might have thought of a way to improve on my solution, will add it up and post it up if it is better.

I'm merging our solutions. Hope you don't mind. :) I didn't think of Vineyards at all.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2011, 06:28:51 am »
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Haha. Go for it! I look forward to seeing what you can do.
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2011, 06:31:03 am »
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Argh, I need too many kingdom cards. I think I'm going to have to make a significant modification to the original puzzle.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2011, 06:36:49 am »
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Hmm.... I'm not entirely sure how that can change anything, seeing as your Province is being Sabotaged 9 times it's going to become nothing more than a $2-cost card. This is what we were allowed in our deck originally. Doesn't change my solution but I'll wait and see what you've got.
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2011, 06:45:41 am »
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Hmm.... I'm not entirely sure how that can change anything, seeing as your Province is being Sabotaged 9 times it's going to become nothing more than a $2-cost card. This is what we were allowed in our deck originally. Doesn't change my solution but I'll wait and see what you've got.

Yeah, you would think. I think I should've left the lone card sabotaged anonymous because it's a big hint as to where I'm going with this. Oh well...
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 06:57:29 am »
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I presume the 5th card in your hand isn't Possession?
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 07:00:01 am »
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I presume the 5th card in your hand isn't Possession?

Correct. Thanks for the catch! Edited original post to exclude Possession and Outpost.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 07:01:02 am »
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(By the way I am not pointing anything else out because each time I do the puzzles gets further and further away from my solution and soon my solution won't fit the puzzle at all)
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 07:09:29 am »
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Maybe the intended solution is something like this Vineyards thing combined with an action chain of $2 cards like Herbalist, Courtyard, Pawn, Hamlet, Secret Chamber, started by a Golem in your hand (so it's one less $2 pile). Possibly you can net some more points with this variant, but I'm too lazy right now to do the math.

EDIT: Moreover, you've also taken something like Throne Room - or for a different solution also Goons or s.th. - for the trashend Province
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:15:06 am by kn1tt3r »
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2011, 07:14:48 am »
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I thought something like that might be the case, but if you have a Golem in your hand (by the original constraints of the puzzle that I posted a solution to) that means you have no Potion in your deck (Nothing got Sab'd. Even by the current constraints your Potion doesn't get Sab'd). However, there is nothing in the trash, no Ambassadors and no Masquerades. Therefore you can't have got rid of your Potion. Thus if you have Potion cards, you MUST have your Potion in your hand.

Edit: Which also rules out Possession without it needing to be explicitly stated.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:18:39 am by Thisisnotasmile »
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2011, 07:19:51 am »
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I thought something like that might be the case, but if you have a Golem in your hand (by the original constraints of the puzzle that I posted a solution to) that means you have no Potion in your deck (Nothing got Sab'd. Even by the current constraints your Potion doesn't get Sab'd). However, there is nothing in the trash, no Ambassadors and no Masquerades. Therefore you can't have got rid of your Potion. Thus if you have Potion cards, you MUST have your Potion in your hand.

This is correct.

Here's a big, but cryptic, hint for everyone: What's so special about a Province and how might that interact with the Saboteur constraint? Additionally, how can I possibly integrate Thisisnotasmile's solution without having the Potion being the one card?

I'm too tired to finish solving my own puzzle. I'll finish it later. I think I'm going to end up in the 200's though. I think I should've broken this puzzle down into smaller puzzles. :-\
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2011, 07:21:17 am »
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Edit: Which also rules out Possession without it needing to be explicitly stated.

Good point. I'm going to remove unnecessary constraints.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2011, 07:24:23 am »
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Nothing is in the trash pile
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2011, 07:26:23 am »
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Here's another big, but cryptic, hint to get people started: My intended solution involves an attack card as the 5th card accompanying the Estates.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:29:20 am by Blooki »
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2011, 07:27:21 am »
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Nothing is in the trash pile
Sorry, deleted my post right after I've written it.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2011, 07:31:59 am »
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Here's another big, but cryptic, hint to get people started: My intended solution involves an attack card as the 5th card accompanying the Estates.
Can basically only be Minion... but I'm stuck...
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Davio

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2011, 07:34:03 am »
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Yeah, I got Minion as well, but than it becomes just a galore of $2's.

Here's a side question: If villain had KC'd some Bridges, would Saboteur still have worked the way it does? I know Bridge lowers the costs of cards in player's hands, so I guess it doesn't work for cards revealed from player's decks, correct?

Same goes for Swindler.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:41:20 am by Davio »
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2011, 07:40:47 am »
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Yeah, I got Minion as well, but than it becomes just a galore of $2's.
Plus maybe some $6 card that was gained from the trashed Province. Goons or something...
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Davio

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2011, 07:42:13 am »
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Yeah, I got Minion as well, but than it becomes just a galore of $2's.
Plus maybe some $6 card that was gained from the trashed Province. Goons or something...
This is not possible, because that card would have been found by the second Saboteur run through from the TR.
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2011, 07:43:25 am »
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Yeah, I got Minion as well, but than it becomes just a galore of $2's.
Plus maybe some $6 card that was gained from the trashed Province. Goons or something...
This is not possible, because that card would have been found by the second Saboteur run through from the TR.

This is correct.
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2011, 07:44:31 am »
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Yeah, I got Minion as well, but than it becomes just a galore of $2's.

Here's a side question: If villain had KC'd some Bridges, would Saboteur still have worked the way it does? I know Bridge lowers the costs of cards in player's hands, so I guess it doesn't work for cards revealed from player's decks, correct?

Same goes for Swindler.

Bridge lowers the costs of all cards everywhere. However, there are no Bridges. ::wink, wink::

Donald X comments on the ruling here: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/3609752#3609752
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:48:14 am by Blooki »
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2011, 07:54:02 am »
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Suppose Villain has played Princess before TR-Saboteur, your deck could be filled with endless amounts of $4 cards, like TRs, Coppersmiths + tons of copper (gained into hand by Apothecaries), Monuments, and also Potions.

EDIT: or crazy Scrying Pool / Village / Secret Chamber chains
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2011, 07:57:00 am »
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Suppose Villain has played Princess before TR-Saboteur, your deck could be filled with endless amounts of $4 cards, like TRs, Coppersmiths + tons of copper (gained into hand by Apothecaries), Monuments, and also Potions.

EDIT: or crazy Scrying Pool / Village / Secret Chamber chains

Bingo! Don't forget to construct a valid turn for the Villain though. Seems like he has a lot of terminals.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2011, 08:59:01 am »
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Suppose Villain has played Princess before TR-Saboteur, your deck could be filled with endless amounts of $4 cards, like TRs, Coppersmiths + tons of copper (gained into hand by Apothecaries), Monuments, and also Potions.

EDIT: or crazy Scrying Pool / Village / Secret Chamber chains

Bingo! Don't forget to construct a valid turn for the Villain though. Seems like he has a lot of terminals.

Oh nice. Well, then I'm gonna bask in my triumph and let the others do the remaining tiny details. *g*
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Davio

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2011, 09:05:12 am »
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Well, if Bridge isn't allowed, neither is Princess, I think.

I think the stretch of this problem is to focus on the cheap cards and try to come up with something for that.

With Scrying Pool, we could draw a whole bunch of $2's like NV's, Lighthouses, Pawns etc...
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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2011, 09:06:27 am »
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Suppose Villain has played Princess before TR-Saboteur, your deck could be filled with endless amounts of $4 cards, like TRs, Coppersmiths + tons of copper (gained into hand by Apothecaries), Monuments, and also Potions.

EDIT: or crazy Scrying Pool / Village / Secret Chamber chains

Bingo! Don't forget to construct a valid turn for the Villain though. Seems like he has a lot of terminals.
TR, TR, Princess, Saboteur

Davio: You can't get scrying pool/apothecary in your deck unless he played a princess or the last card in your hand is the potion, since otherwise the potion would be hit by the saboteur
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2011, 09:21:15 am »
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I don't understand why Villain's turn is that crucial. Could be just as simple as Village>Princess>TR/Sab or something.

The tricky part now is to construct Hero's turn to gain max. points. Maybe a monster-thick deck with something like wild chains of Village/Scrying Pool/Secret Chamber, followed by 8 Apothecaries drawing maximum coppers, 7 Workers Village / Hamlets and 8 Throne Roomed Coppersmiths. Buys could contain provinces, vineyards and whatever. Insanely complex.


EDIT: Or even Remodelling something to Counting House, which you instantly draw with whatever, gaining all your 87 coppers (?) into hand. After multiple Hamlets/Workers Villages etc. you TR your 8 Coppersmiths and get like $1392
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 09:26:55 am by kn1tt3r »
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2011, 01:19:02 pm »
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Princess is very much allowed and necessary in my opinion.

kn1tt3r the opponent's turn is crucial because you need to get that Princess played and if you use a Village to do it you've just used up another kingdom card slot. My solution uses every last one.
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Fangz

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2011, 01:45:34 pm »
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So, let's say he plays TR TR Princess Saboteur (remaining card doesn't matter). That least our hero free to have any $4 or less card. I don't see how an attack would help in this situation, though, unless we are talking a familiar.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 01:49:51 pm by Fangz »
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2011, 01:48:21 pm »
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So, let's say he plays TR TR Princess Saboteur (remaining card doesn't matter). That least our hero free to have any $4 or less card.

This is true. Mind modifying it as a spoiler for anybody who might want to solve the puzzle from the beginning?

Also, everyone's totally on the right track to my intended solution.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 01:57:52 pm by Blooki »
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2011, 01:56:17 pm »
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So, let's say he plays TR TR Princess Saboteur (remaining card doesn't matter). That least our hero free to have any $4 or less card. I don't see how an attack would help in this situation, though, unless we are talking a familiar.


The one card in your hand is immune to the Saboteur, and as such is the only card in your deck which DOESN'T have to cost $4 or less ;]

Also Blooki, you might want to spoiler that yourself.
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Fangz

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2011, 02:29:30 pm »
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Okay, let's say the hero (looking more and more like a villain...) has gathered the ridiculous gardens deck - (50+ coppers - well, after this turn he'll have 50+ of them), 40+ silvers, 16 or so potions, and 10 or 9 of every other kingdom card than TR (which he has 8 of) and saboteur and King's Court and fairgrounds. So his gardens are worth about 20 each - so about 160 there. Then plus vineyards brings him up to 304, plus whatever number of estates he has. Now let's see how much more he can get...

It goes without saying that he has an enormous number of philosopher's stones with him, worth over $10 each. He scrying pools all his actions in one massive hand, drawing some worker's villages and other sources of +buy. Eventually, using the one $6 card - goons (I don't know how many +buy you can get from <$4 cards), and secret chambering down to just his philosopher's stones, he purchases a bunch of colonies, provinces, duchies, and fairgrounds and maybe coppers, trashes 10 quarries and 10 talismens with TR'ed bishops. (+30 vp) Obviously he wins because his opponent has ragequit already.

I'd have a chain of cards he could play but this margin isn't sufficient to contain it :p
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2011, 02:51:47 pm »
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He can't "eventually" use his $6 card. The card that costs more than $4 is the only (usable) card he has in his hand at the beginning of the turn, thus it must be the first card he plays. Minion will allow him to draw 4 usable (but less than or equal to $4 (give or take a potion)) cards. You have to get as many VPs as possible from that point.
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2011, 02:58:15 pm »
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Okay, let's say the hero (looking more and more like a villain...) has gathered the ridiculous gardens deck - (50+ coppers - well, after this turn he'll have 50+ of them), 40+ silvers, 16 or so potions, and 10 or 9 of every other kingdom card than TR (which he has 8 of) and saboteur and King's Court and fairgrounds. So his gardens are worth about 20 each - so about 160 there. Then plus vineyards brings him up to 304, plus whatever number of estates he has. Now let's see how much more he can get...

It goes without saying that he has an enormous number of philosopher's stones with him, worth over $10 each. He scrying pools all his actions in one massive hand, drawing some worker's villages and other sources of +buy. Eventually, using the one $6 card - goons (I don't know how many +buy you can get from <$4 cards), and secret chambering down to just his philosopher's stones, he purchases a bunch of colonies, provinces, duchies, and fairgrounds and maybe coppers, trashes 10 quarries and 10 talismens with TR'ed bishops. (+30 vp) Obviously he wins because his opponent has ragequit already.

I'd have a chain of cards he could play but this margin isn't sufficient to contain it :p


Your kingdom consists of at least: Gardens - Throne Room - Saboteur - King's Court (though I don't know why this is here, maybe you're working off of an earlier version of the puzzle) - Fairgrounds - Vineyards - Philosopher's Stones - Scrying Pool - Worker's Village - "some other sources of +buy" - sources is pluralized - Goons (see Thisisnotasmile's comment) - Secret Chamber - Quarry - Talisman (how did these get in your hand BTW? Worker's Villages?) - Bishop - Tournament (or did you forget how you are able to have all of these $2+ cards?)

17 Kingdom cards and counting. Do you see a problem?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 03:01:18 pm by Blooki »
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timchen

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2011, 03:52:35 pm »
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How about this?

Our villain is so nice that he actually played a black market, putting 2 quarries down. He played a princess after that. Our hero has tons of KC and Goons but for some reason failed to even gain one VP token before this turn. (It is possible, as you can scrying pool all the goons and play other cards.)
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Fangz

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2011, 04:38:59 pm »
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Your kingdom consists of at least: Gardens - Throne Room - Saboteur - King's Court (though I don't know why this is here, maybe you're working off of an earlier version of the puzzle) - Fairgrounds - Vineyards - Philosopher's Stones - Scrying Pool - Worker's Village - "some other sources of +buy" - sources is pluralized - Goons (see Thisisnotasmile's comment) - Secret Chamber - Quarry - Talisman (how did these get in your hand BTW? Worker's Villages?) - Bishop - Tournament (or did you forget how you are able to have all of these $2+ cards?)

17 Kingdom cards and counting. Do you see a problem?

Okay, let's pare down to what's needed: Tournament, scrying pool, gardens, throne room, worker's village, vineyards, saboteur, secret chamber, fairgrounds, minion. Main source of money will be drawing lots of cards with scrying pool, secret chamber to discard them all for money, then using the get 4 silvers and discard deck ability of trusty steed, and drawing them all over again.
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2011, 05:25:25 pm »
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How about this?

Our villain is so nice that he actually played a black market, putting 2 quarries down. He played a princess after that. Our hero has tons of KC and Goons but for some reason failed to even gain one VP token before this turn. (It is possible, as you can scrying pool all the goons and play other cards.)

Original post says no Black Markets. But if there were, your solution would beat the pants off of mine. :)
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Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2011, 05:37:27 pm »
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Your kingdom consists of at least: Gardens - Throne Room - Saboteur - King's Court (though I don't know why this is here, maybe you're working off of an earlier version of the puzzle) - Fairgrounds - Vineyards - Philosopher's Stones - Scrying Pool - Worker's Village - "some other sources of +buy" - sources is pluralized - Goons (see Thisisnotasmile's comment) - Secret Chamber - Quarry - Talisman (how did these get in your hand BTW? Worker's Villages?) - Bishop - Tournament (or did you forget how you are able to have all of these $2+ cards?)

17 Kingdom cards and counting. Do you see a problem?

Okay, let's pare down to what's needed: Tournament, scrying pool, gardens, throne room, worker's village, vineyards, saboteur, secret chamber, fairgrounds, minion. Main source of money will be drawing lots of cards with scrying pool, secret chamber to discard them all for money, then using the get 4 silvers and discard deck ability of trusty steed, and drawing them all over again.

I'd say you've essentially solved it. May I suggest some minor tweaks.

I'm not sure why you would want Minion in the kingdom though. My solution shares some elements with yours, but is different enough. I have more coin, but I run out of buys. In your solution, you can only discard and redraw once with Trusty Steed so as written I think you'll be short on coin. You probably should swap out Minion for Chancellor. After doing that, depending on your final coin and buy count our final VP tallies should rival each other.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2011, 02:29:38 am »
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Well, i thought Minion was the one card in Hero's hand at the start of his turn...
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 03:44:39 am by kn1tt3r »
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ghostofmars

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2011, 05:56:46 am »
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I've achieved 526vp. I hope I've not missed anything.
The deck of the villain contains at least:
1 Province + 1 Saboteur + 1 Tournament + 1 Gold + 7 Copper + 3 Estate + 2 Throne Rooms + 1 Princess

In the kingdom the following cards are present (in brackets the number the available/ the number the hero has before the last turn)
Colony (8/0)
Province (6/0)
Duchy (8/0)
Estate (1/10)
Copper (1/52)
Silver (1/39)
Gold (29/0)
Potion (1/15)
Tournament (1/8)
Scrying Pool (1/9)
Throne Room (0/8)
Worker Village (0/10)
Coppersmith (1/9)
Apothecary (1/9)
Saboteur (1/8)
Garden (1/7)
Vineyard (1/7)
Young Witch (1/9)
+ bane card: Great Hall (1/7)
+ prizes (0/4)

After the villain successfully trashed the province, the hero has the following cards in his hand:
4x Estate + 1x Scrying Pool

He plays Scrying Pool and draws all of his Action cards in his hand.
Playing 8x Throne Room, he doubles the effect of 8 of his Worker Villages, the other two worker villages are played without a Throne Room
=> total 19 buys and a lot of actions (34) and several cards (18)
He proceeds with the 9x coppersmiths making all copper worth 10. Playing the Apothecaries he draws enough coppers and potions to buy everything he want:
8x colony, 6x province, 1x garden, 1x vineyard, 3x duchy
In total he has 230 cards making each garden worth 23, 77 action cards so that each vineyard is worth 25 points.

Garden      8 x 23 = 184
Vineyard    8 x 25 = 200
Colony      8 x 10 =  80
Province    6 x  6 =  36
Duchy       3 x  3 =   9
Estate     10 x  1 =  10
Great Hall  7 x  1 =   7
------------------------
                     526

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Agrisios

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2011, 07:06:49 am »
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Princess is very much allowed and necessary in my opinion.

kn1tt3r the opponent's turn is crucial because you need to get that Princess played and if you use a Village to do it you've just used up another kingdom card slot. My solution uses every last one.

I haven't followed the hole thread in detail, sorry. So this comment might be improper. But the quote above makes me wonder if anybody has mentioned good old Trusty Steed yet.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2011, 09:55:08 am »
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ghost of mars,

You should buy one less Duchy, and buy the last Great Hall instead.  This nets -2 points on the cards themselves, but pushes your Vineyards up to 26 points (78 action cards) which gains you 8 points there, putting the total up to 532.

Blooki

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2011, 01:15:41 pm »
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.
Garden      8 x 23 = 184
Vineyard    8 x 25 = 200
Colony      8 x 10 =  80
Province    6 x  6 =  36
Duchy       3 x  3 =   9
Estate     10 x  1 =  10
Great Hall  7 x  1 =   7
------------------------
                     526

[/spoiler]

Well done! I was fixated on using Counting House and therefore needed mid-turn gaining as well as a mid-turn TRed-Trusty Steed to cycle, draw the Counting House and cycle the Coppers to the discard pile again ending up with a very cumbersome solution. Apothecaries was a great call whoever came up with it. I bet this solution could be improved. The Great Hall vs Duchy has already been mentioned. I think you're also missing 7 Coppers as well. Bag of Gold can grab the last Gold and Trusty Steed the last Silver. That should bump your Gardens.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2011, 02:29:40 pm »
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He is missing the Villain's 7 Coppers, so he can't have those.  I just noticed that he missed the Prize actions, so I think Bag of Gold, Trusty Steed, and Followers pushes the Vineyards up to 27 (with the previous modification I suggested).  He can get a Gold and the last Silver, and can gain the last Estate with Followers, but I don't think there is anywhere to get 7 more cards for Gardens.  With 8 more points from the Prize/Actions the count would now be at 540.

Edit: I just realized, gaining the last Estate with Followers gets you to 541.


I am curious if you can get more with Black Market.  You banned it in the puzzle rules, but it doesn't change the puzzle that much.  You can only have all the <= $4 actions out of it, so I don't think it really changes the strategy much (you would get a higher Vineyards total, and squeeze a few more buys from a hamlet, pawn, and maybe something I am not thinking of.) If you could find a way to squeeze Fairgrounds into the Kingdom, it could increase the points by a lot.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 03:07:06 pm by Deadlock39 »
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ghostofmars

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2011, 07:24:59 pm »
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I am curious if you can get more with Black Market.  You banned it in the puzzle rules, but it doesn't change the puzzle that much.
You wouldn't use Black Market for the hero, but for the villain. If he played it before the saboteur he could add several Quarries and hence not trash any of your action cards. Then you can go for Goons and King's Court:)

I think it is possible to further optimize my solution.
At the moment I'm not really limited by coins, but by the number of buys, so I don't need the Apothecary. In addition, it might be better to replace one of the Throne Rooms of the villain with one of the hero's Worker Villages.
9xTR + 9x WV => +18 buys, +18 cards, +35 actions
8xScrying Pools => +8 cards
9xCoppersmith => -9 actions
8xTournament => +8 cards, +8$
7xGreat Hall => +7 cards
Followers => +2 cards, -1 action, +1 estate
Trusty Steed => +2 cards, +4x silver, -1 action
Bag of Gold => +1 gold
Diadem => 2$ + 25 unused actions = 27$
If I have not miscounted, I could still have 45 copper and 1 potion in the hand, adding up to sufficient money to buy everything I have buys for. The spot of the Apothecary would go to the Island.

19 buys = 8 colony, 6 province, 1 island, 1 great hall, 1 garden, 1 vineyard, 1 action card

Total cards: 230
Total actions: 81
Garden      8 x 23 = 184
Vineyard    8 x 27 = 216
Colony      8 x 10 =  80
Province    6 x  6 =  36
Island      8 x  2 =  16
Estate     11 x  1 =  11
Great Hall  8 x  1 =   8
------------------------
                     551


PS: I just realized, I could do even better. If I replace the Great Hall with Pawn (+1 card/+1 buy) to get more buys. I think I could buy all Duchies then. I haven't calculated it precisely, but I think the points would increase by 18, 21, or 24, depending on how much action cards have to be bought to satisfy the vineyards.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2011, 12:16:55 am »
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I suppose you could explicitly state that the Villain did not have any Black Markets, but it probably just complicates things more than necessary.  I was just a little bit sad to see Fairgrounds not making it into the problem.

I don't think you increased the Vineyards score for the Islands you obtained.  The 8 + the action you bought gets them to 30 I think.

mischiefmaker

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2011, 07:40:02 pm »
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ghostofmars, how does the Hero have 8 Saboteurs in his deck? Wouldn't those get hit by the villain's Saboteur?

Without those, and replacing great halls with pawns to get more buys, I total 553:

8 vineyards x 78 actions = 208
8 gardens x 234 cards = 184
8 islands, colony = 96
6 province = 36
11 estate = 11
6 duchy = 18

Last turn buys: 8 colony, 6 province, 6 duchy, pawn, young witch, coppersmith, scrying pool, tournament, island, gardens, vineyard.


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Deadlock39

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Re: Blooki's Puzzle #1 - Sad Saboteur
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2011, 10:51:42 pm »
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Add 6 curses to your starting deck to gain 8 more points from Gardens.  (Net gain of 2)
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