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[Schneau]

All the Dark Ages talk and speculation made me think of some card ideas I had when I first heard about the trashing theme of DA. So, here are some (foolish) attempts to predict what future DA cards may look like. Feel free to contribute your own as well!


I wouldn't be surprised if (one of) the Dark Ages curser is a self-trasher. Something like the following:


Mercenary
$4 - Action-Attack
+$2
You may trash this card immediately. If you do, every other player discards 2 cards and gains a Curse.

I thought about submitting this to the terminal silver mini-expansion-challenge, but probably won't. I could see this working nicely with Graverobber, especially since you'd be able to put it on top of your deck.


Hoarder
$4 - Action-Victory
You may trash one card.
--
Worth 1VP for every type of card in the trash out of the types: Action, Treasure, Victory, Curse.

This card plays with the trash in a different way. Maybe a Graverobber comes along and steals the only Treasure card in the trash, preventing you from getting max points for your Hoarder!

[eHalcyon]

There was already plenty of speculation in the original DA post!

Maybe Shelter can upgrade into other VP (think along the lines of the naming).  Similarly, VP could downgrade into Ruins.

So there's two interpretations of "upgrading", and we seem to be focusing on one of them—i.e., effects like the card Upgrade (or Remodel or whatever), where you trash a card and gain a better card. Another possibility is that "upgrading" refers to cards that get better themselves, rather than being trashed and replaced by new cards. In existing sets there are already City, Trade Route, and Pirate Ship as cards that get "upgraded" in this sense.

I'm thinking more on the lines of Feast, but with specific upgrade paths, i.e. buy A from supply, trash it to get B* (not in supply), trash that to get C* (not in supply).  The description did mention many cards that "you can only get via specific other cards".

I'm thinking more on the lines of Feast, but with specific upgrade paths, i.e. buy A from supply, trash it to get B* (not in supply), trash that to get C* (not in supply).  The description did mention many cards that "you can only get via specific other cards".

This could very well be it.  But it would be interesting if some B*'s were actually the upgrades to multiple As.  Or at least I think it could be interesting.  Imagine two very different As that can both upgrade to the same B (they would probably cost the same, or would have different upgrade conditions to cover the discrepancy).

Sure.  And maybe an A can upgrade into B1 or B2.  There could be a multiple branching paths.

My speculation along these lines: of the 35 kingdom cards, only 25 are regular cards coming with randomizers. This would fit with usual numbers. Now 10 of these 25 cards are upgradable, and whenever one of this card is in the supply, the upgraded version comes also in the supply, but can be gained only in a very specific way.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking, except I don't think the upgraded version(s) would count as part of the supply.  Cards in the supply must be available for purchase.  If you must gain them in other, special ways, they are separate from the Supply.  Examples include Tournament prizes and cards in the Black Market.

Re: The upgrade actions/ cards you can only gain via other cards.

Is anyone else thinking of the hero cards in Thunderstone? Perhaps including the fact that there will be fewer than 10 of the level 2 and level 3 versions, so it will be a race to upgrade?

If so, a lot of people will hate those cards.

I was thinking that there would be MORE of the special upgraded cards than the upgrade-able cards in the Supply, so that you could make a "gain from trash" card not only worth it but necessary, in order to get more of the good stuff.  So for example:

The supply includes Twig (10 copies, standard).  There are two special cards, Torch and Bonfire.

Twig - $2
+1 Card, +$1.  You may trash this to gain a Torch.  You may reveal and trash a second Twig to gain Bonfire instead.

Torch - $3* (not in supply)
+2 Cards, +$1.  You may trash this and a Twig or a second Torch from your hand to gain a Bonfire.

Bonfire - $5* (not in supply)
+2 Cards, +$1, +1 Action.  Choose one: gain a Twig or Torch from the trash; or trash any number of Twigs and Torches from your hand for $2 each.



And of course, a separate trash-gainer would help you recover those precious Twigs more quickly.

Edit: By the way, my use of twigs stems (semi-pun semi-intended) from the text:

You beg twigs from the villagers, and they beg them back, but no-one really seems to come out ahead.

[Schneau]

There was already plenty of speculation in the original DA post!
...

I know! But now that we are starting to see DA cards, it is interesting to see how our card ideas interact with them.

[LastFootnote]

There was already plenty of speculation in the original DA post!
...

I know! But now that we are starting to see DA cards, it is interesting to see how our card ideas interact with them.

I've been guilty of this kind of thing in the past, but these sort of "predictions" still belong in the Variants forum.

[Grujah]

I stand by my Ruins prediction:

Ruined Province
7$ Victory - Ruins
Worth 4VP
(this is not in the supply)

Ruined Duchy
4$ Victory - Ruins
Worth 2VP
(this is not in the supply)

Ruined Estate
1$ Victory - Ruins
Worth 0VP
(this is not in the supply)

Barbarians
5$ Action - Attack
+2$
Each other player reveals cards from deck until they reveal a Province, a Duchy or an Estate.
They trash the card and gain Ruined version of the card.

[eHalcyon]

And I still disagree that they would put in 36 extra victory cards that only have relevance in kingdoms with Barbarians.

[Cuzz]

Each other player reveals cards from hand until they reveal a Province, a Duchy or an Estate.
They trash the card and gain Ruined version of the card.

from deck perhaps?

[Davio]

I suspect the next 3 cards will have a Reaction and a Treasure.

[Grujah]

A Curser and a Village!

[Tdog]

We had a 5 a 3 and a 1 cost in this preview, so I expect a 2,4 and 6 in the next one.

[Grujah]

And I still disagree that they would put in 36 extra victory cards that only have relevance in kingdoms with Barbarians.

There are 50 Ruin cards.

Hah.

[bedlam]

Do you think we'll get to trash an already played card, instead of just trashing from the hand?

[werothegreat]

And I still disagree that they would put in 36 extra victory cards that only have relevance in kingdoms with Barbarians.

There are 50 Ruin cards.

Hah.

BUT there are three Looting cards.  Equivalent to VP tokens in Prosperity.

[eHalcyon]

And I still disagree that they would put in 36 extra victory cards that only have relevance in kingdoms with Barbarians.

There are 50 Ruin cards.

Hah.

But these Ruin cards actually do something!  They're not just weak VP.

[Archetype]

Heres my ideas for the future Ruins cards:

Ruined Smithy: +2 Cards
Ruined Mandarin?: +2$
Ruined Village: +2 Actions

That's right. These are all the Vanilla bonuses that have yet to be used and have been deemed too weak for a 2 cost card.

Donald X said these "Ruins" would occasionally be bought by players, so I think they would have to actually be worth buying. But not something would want to fill your deck with.

I don't know what the last Ruins card will be be, but I like the idea someone has said (can't remember who) of a Ruined Workshop: "Gain a card costing up to 1"

[ChocophileBenj]

"Donald X said these "Ruins" would occasionally be bought by players" : Like Ruined Market if it is the only source of +buy ?
Anyway, I suggest something else for Ruined Mandarin : Put one card back on your deck.

Can be good if you have maaaany terminals, or if you have a copper to trash/a tunnel to discard with loan, and so on...

[ftl]

As pointed out before, I think they would have to be 'ruined' versions of cards in the base set.

Ruined market - we know that one, +1 buy.
I think Ruined Smithy and Ruined Village are a good bet. Either +1 or +2 cards or actions, respectively, not sure which. +1 if they're meant to be entirely useless, +2 if they're meant to be potentially useful but way too weak to buy. (Despite the fact that ruined market gives +1 buy, that's actually a playable card - in engines, I wouldn't mind getting one if it was the only +buy source, so it's better than a +1 card or +1 action ruin.)
+1 coin is probably a good bet too, I don't know the name for it though. Ruined woodcutter? A terminal copper is pretty bad.

Ruined chapel - trash one card from your hand - also seems plausible. It might be too good for a ruin, given that when you get ruins getting a free trasher (even a weak one) is probably fine, like picking up a transmute in a curse game. But maybe a ruined remodel: trash one card from your hand, gain another card costing the same as the trashed card? Would be useful for turning ruins into coppers, at least, or trading a ruin you don't want for a ruin you do. Useful, but not so useful as to be worth having in your deck intentionally.

[philosophyguy]

My money is on Ruined Smithy being +1 Card. Moat is +2 cards; even though it is mostly valuable for the reaction ability, +2 cards is something. For $0, +2 Cards would be ridiculous.

Same for Ruined Village being +2 Actions. The closest comparison is Hamlet, which nets the same number of cards if you discard for the extra action. But, Hamlet can function as a cantrip if you don't need the extra action and you have the option of getting the Buy, which makes Hamlet more valuable. A Ruined Village of just +1 Action would be so worthless as to never be worth buying outside of Fairgrounds/Throne Room/etc. edge cases.

[Schneau]

It seems like the other ruined cards will have a big impact on how strong Cultist and other Looters are. For example, if the Ruins are:

1. +1 Buy
2. +1 Action
3. +1 Card
4. +$1
5. 0VP

then Cultist is pretty darn strong. But, if the Ruins are:

1. +1 Buy
2. +2 Actions
3. +2 Cards
4. +$2
5. 1VP

then Cultist isn't near as strong. I'm guessing they'll be more in line with the second list, since those seem closer to the benefit of a single +1 Buy. But, I might be wrong!

[Archetype]

It seems like the other ruined cards will have a big impact on how strong Cultist and other Looters are. For example, if the Ruins are:

1. +1 Buy
2. +1 Action
3. +1 Card
4. +$1
5. 0VP

then Cultist is pretty darn strong. But, if the Ruins are:

1. +1 Buy
2. +2 Actions
3. +2 Cards
4. +$2
5. 1VP

then Cultist isn't near as strong. I'm guessing they'll be more in line with the second list, since those seem closer to the benefit of a single +1 Buy. But, I might be wrong!

Exactly. If the Ruins were as bad as Curses, Cultists would be way overpowered.

[One Armed Man]

It seems like the other ruined cards will have a big impact on how strong Cultist and other Looters are. For example, if the Ruins are:

1. +1 Buy
2. +1 Action
3. +1 Card
4. +$1
5. 0VP

then Cultist is pretty darn strong. But, if the Ruins are:

1. +1 Buy
2. +2 Actions
3. +2 Cards
4. +$2
5. 1VP

then Cultist isn't near as strong. I'm guessing they'll be more in line with the second list, since those seem closer to the benefit of a single +1 Buy. But, I might be wrong!

My bet:
1. +1 Buy
2. +2 Actions
3. +1 Cards
4. +$1
5. Card filtering, like draw 2, discard 2.

[eHalcyon]

"Donald X said these "Ruins" would occasionally be bought by players" : Like Ruined Market if it is the only source of +buy ?
Anyway, I suggest something else for Ruined Mandarin : Put one card back on your deck.

Can be good if you have maaaany terminals, or if you have a copper to trash/a tunnel to discard with loan, and so on...

That version of a Ruined Mandarin would not help with terminal actions at all because it is ALSO a terminal action.  It makes no sense that you would spend an action to put back a different terminal action that you could have just played to begin with.

[jonts26]

"Donald X said these "Ruins" would occasionally be bought by players" : Like Ruined Market if it is the only source of +buy ?
Anyway, I suggest something else for Ruined Mandarin : Put one card back on your deck.

Can be good if you have maaaany terminals, or if you have a copper to trash/a tunnel to discard with loan, and so on...

That version of a Ruined Mandarin would not help with terminal actions at all because it is ALSO a terminal action.  It makes no sense that you would spend an action to put back a different terminal action that you could have just played to begin with.

There's always a way to make it work. Let see ... Village, ruined mandarin, ghost ship, ghost ship. Play village, GS. Draw not villages, but enough to buy province. No use playing the second GS now, lets save it for next turn.

[eHalcyon]

"Donald X said these "Ruins" would occasionally be bought by players" : Like Ruined Market if it is the only source of +buy ?
Anyway, I suggest something else for Ruined Mandarin : Put one card back on your deck.

Can be good if you have maaaany terminals, or if you have a copper to trash/a tunnel to discard with loan, and so on...

That version of a Ruined Mandarin would not help with terminal actions at all because it is ALSO a terminal action.  It makes no sense that you would spend an action to put back a different terminal action that you could have just played to begin with.

There's always a way to make it work. Let see ... Village, ruined mandarin, ghost ship, ghost ship. Play village, GS. Draw not villages, but enough to buy province. No use playing the second GS now, lets save it for next turn.

Touche.

But I would contend that it's still not advisable to buy a Ruined Mandarin just for that possibility, and it's more an example of smoothing out draws here, rather than dealing with extra terminals.

[jonts26]

"Donald X said these "Ruins" would occasionally be bought by players" : Like Ruined Market if it is the only source of +buy ?
Anyway, I suggest something else for Ruined Mandarin : Put one card back on your deck.

Can be good if you have maaaany terminals, or if you have a copper to trash/a tunnel to discard with loan, and so on...

That version of a Ruined Mandarin would not help with terminal actions at all because it is ALSO a terminal action.  It makes no sense that you would spend an action to put back a different terminal action that you could have just played to begin with.

There's always a way to make it work. Let see ... Village, ruined mandarin, ghost ship, ghost ship. Play village, GS. Draw not villages, but enough to buy province. No use playing the second GS now, lets save it for next turn.

Touche.

But I would contend that it's still not advisable to buy a Ruined Mandarin just for that possibility, and it's more an example of smoothing out draws here, rather than dealing with extra terminals.

Well if it is a ruined mandarin, how about adding 'when you gain this, put a treasure back on top of your deck.' Now we're talking.