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Author Topic: Guaranteeing at least some points.  (Read 2460 times)

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carstimon

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Guaranteeing at least some points.
« on: August 02, 2012, 11:50:51 pm »
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You're playing a solo game.  Here's some information about the current state of the game.
There are no potion cards except apothecary.
There are at least 24 72 terminals in your deck.  (There may be other things)
There are 9 schemes in the trash.
You have just reshuffled, and your deck is in an arbitrary order.
Bank is the only 7 cost card and herbalist is the only 2 cost card.

You draw your 5 card hand, and realize that you can guarantee getting arbitrarily many points, at a rate of five per a turn, until the game ends.


« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 02:55:59 am by carstimon »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2012, 12:09:02 am »
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Not sure of the relevance of apothecary and Herbalist...

My first thought was:

Copper, Silver, Gold, Bank (or Royal Seal, Harem, Hoard, Diadem, Stash, probably Venture too if you have another treasure worth at least $1 and no Potions), Horn of Plenty.

The first four treasures let you buy Province.  Use HoP to gain Mandarin, putting all treasure cards right back on top.  Repeat until Provinces gone.

But this doesn't give you arbitrarily many points, because Provinces run out.  Also, if the deck was in an arbitrary order, you can't guarantee drawing that perfect hand up there.


Another possibility might be something involving a Venture chain and Herbalist.
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carstimon

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2012, 12:37:53 am »
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Ok, first hint is that I thought that the puzzle was too easy so there might be some red herrings.

Also, supply piles are finite.  And you draw your hand, and THEN realize you can do it, so dictate your first hand.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2012, 12:44:46 am »
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Ok, first hint is that I thought that the puzzle was too easy so there might be some red herrings.

Also, supply piles are finite.  And you draw your hand, and THEN realize you can do it, so dictate your first hand.

I thought the first hint was more to get rid of Golem, which would make it easier... :P

Edit: although I guess 24 terminals sort of screw with Golem.
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blueblimp

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2012, 02:06:00 am »
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I'm a little confused on the constraints (depends on what "terminal" means), but here's an attempt anyway.


In your deck, you have 10 Throne Rooms, 8 Wharves, 4 Monuments, 2 whatevers (say Counting House) for a total of 24 cards.

The previous turn, you played 4x TR-4x Wharf. Note that, with proper ordering of throne room plays, only 2 TRs are left out with the Wharves.

So, on your turn, in addition to the 5 initial cards, you draw 16 cards from the Wharves. You only have 18 cards to draw (not including the ones left out), so that's everything. Your hand is now 8 TR, 4 Wharves, 4 Monuments, 2 whatevers. Chain the TRs to play the Wharves and the Monuments, for +8 VP tokens.

Repeat.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 02:07:08 am by blueblimp »
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razorborne

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2012, 02:11:55 am »
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I almost had it with Scrying Pool but then I remembered no potion cards. too bad.

@blimp: I don't think Throne Room counts as a terminal but I could be wrong.
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blueblimp

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2012, 02:15:42 am »
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@blimp: I don't think Throne Room counts as a terminal but I could be wrong.
Arguably it isn't a terminal, because as defined in the lingo thread:
Quote
Terminal (or Terminal Action):  Any action card that does not provide another Action when played.
And here, Throne Room is not giving an Action when it's played. I agree that it resembles a Village in practice.
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carstimon

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 02:55:37 am »
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I'm a little confused on the constraints (depends on what "terminal" means), but here's an attempt anyway.
--solution--
Well, I thought I had just an arbitrarily large number to be large enough to discount that type of thing.  I changed it to be a larger arbitrarily large number.

The solution I have in mind involves scheming a certain card.
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DStu

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 09:41:01 am »
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I'm a little confused on the constraints (depends on what "terminal" means), but here's an attempt anyway.
--solution--
Well, I thought I had just an arbitrarily large number to be large enough to discount that type of thing.  I changed it to be a larger arbitrarily large number.

The solution I have in mind involves scheming a certain card.

You know that with this arbitrarily large number, you force YW to be in the Kingdom and all 9 remaining kindom next to Scheme and Apothecary are terminals?
Edit: OK, Bank is also in the supply, so that can not be. Except maybe BM.
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DStu

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2012, 09:57:06 am »
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You could do a Loop with KC-KC-Scheme-Moat-Chancellor(discard) - buy Inn (shuffle Monument x3 + Ambassador + Inn + Scheme + 2 anything into the now empty discad) - put KC-KC-Moat back.
Deck is now: KC-KC-Moat + permutation of (Monumentx3+Ambassador+Inn+Scheme+2anything).
Play KC-KC-Moat (this will draw the rest of the discard)-Scheme-Monument + Monument+Monument+Ambassador(Inn), buy Inn, shuffle (Monumentx3+Ambassador+Inn back+2anything) put KC-KC-Moat back.


Needs: 6Monument, 2KC, 1 Moat, 4anything, 2 Ambassador, 1 Chancellor. 2 Scheme. dammit.


Edit: OK, I think it also works without Moat:
KC-KC-Scheme-Chancellor(discard) + buy Inn(shuffle 3xMonument+Ambassador+Inn back) + put KCKCScheme back
Play KC-KC-Scheme (draws the remaining deck)-Monument-Monument+Monument+Ambassador(Inn) - buy Inn (put 3xMonument+Amb+Inn back) + put KCKCScheme back.

But this gives 7VPs/turn.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 10:03:00 am by DStu »
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blueblimp

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2012, 11:16:05 am »
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KC isn't allowed because Bank is the only $7.
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blueblimp

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2012, 11:20:35 am »
+1

I suspect this is the intended solution:


Deck consists of 10 Fishing Villages, 5 Libraries, 5 Monuments, 1 Scheme, no treasure, and whatever number of terminals needed to fit the requirements.

Each turn, you have 5 FVs in play and draw a hand including a Library. Do this five times: play Library, setting aside cards as needed to ensure you end up with a FV, Monument, and Library in hand, except the last time, where instead of the Library, you want Scheme; play the FV, then the Monument.

After that's all done, play Scheme, then top-deck Library.
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DStu

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2012, 11:21:33 am »
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KC isn't allowed because Bank is the only $7.

Ah, there is a permanent Quarry somewhere...
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carstimon

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2012, 12:19:15 pm »
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Yup, that's what I was looking for blueblimp.  The idea really came from trying to think of an alternative to scrying pool for this kind of thing.
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jomini

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Re: Guaranteeing at least some points.
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 11:40:18 am »
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Another option:

You can play Tr -> Sch to put back Lib and Fst. Next turn your hand is FstLib???: Fst -> Lib (draw through until you hit Fst/Fst/Lib/Mon) -> Fst -> Fst -> Mon -> Lib -> repeat -> repeat -> Fst -> Fst -> Mon -> Lib (draw through until you hit Tr/Sch/Mon)
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