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[david707]

At the start of my turn, I have 5 cards in hand, no cards in my deck or discard pile, no durations in play and no status on any mats. In addition I do not have any Ironworks or Workshops in my hand. What is the most victory points I can gain this turn?

Edit: No Masquerade!

Variant: I have no bridges in hand either.

Edit 2: I don't have any Universities in hand either, for similar reasons to Ironworks/Workshop and going crazy. Possesion/Outpost count as a different "turn" for this puzzle.

[david707]

As an incentive, the best I can do without bridges is 44 points.

[Kirian]

I get 60 with:

KC-KC-Goons-Goons-Trade Route.  This is a colony game, and the other seven piles are VP cards.  The TR value is therefore $11, and since you play the Goons first you don't trash anything.  Two KC-Goons give you $12, three TRs give $33 for $45 total, and you have 10 Buys total.  Purchase 4 Colonies for $44 (40 VP), then 6 Coppers.  Each buy gives 2 VP tokens, for 20 VP.

[shark_bait]

I would think you could go crazy with a KK/KK/KK/University/Nobles hand by using the university to gain bridges and ironworks, then using the nobles to pick them up, then play the bridges and ironworks to gain more bridges/ironworks/nobles/kingscourt constantly drawing them due to ironworks-->green gain and nobles +cards.  I'm too lazy to actually figure this out though. 


Also, is this cheating, you mentioned not starting with Ironworks/workshop in your hand and you may have just forgotten about university being pretty much identical

[Elyv]

Another answer that technically fulfills your conditions: Hand has KC/KC/Wharf(or any other drawer)/2 other cards. Play KC/KC/Wharf and draw into all the cards needed to do the turn 5 8 colonies thing.

[shark_bait]

Another answer that technically fulfills your conditions: Hand has KC/KC/Wharf(or any other drawer)/2 other cards. Play KC/KC/Wharf and draw into all the cards needed to do the turn 5 8 colonies thing.

You don't have any cards in your deck so you can't draw any cards unless you gain them first.

[Elyv]

Another answer that technically fulfills your conditions: Hand has KC/KC/Wharf(or any other drawer)/2 other cards. Play KC/KC/Wharf and draw into all the cards needed to do the turn 5 8 colonies thing.

You don't have any cards in your deck so you can't draw any cards unless you gain them first.

Wow, somehow my eyes slid over that.

[rod-]

Depending on how you want to define "this turn":KC KC bridge outpost bridge, buying 1 nobles 1 kc 4 bridges, drawing  the nobles with 2 kcs on outpost hand, wind up with 6 king'd bridges, thus 8 colonies (12 in multiplayer) and 8 provinces and 2 duchies with the nobles making 136 (158 in multi)

[Blooki]

Before I keep working on a solution, I think you need to define your constraints better.

If University and gained Ironworks/Workshops/Bridges are in play, I'm pretty sure the answer is well into the triple-digit territory.

[RobF]

I wasn't sure if Bridge was supposed to be excluded from your hand, but with it KC/KC/Bridge/Bridge/Bridge for $9 and -$9 costs in a Colony game gets you 4 Colonies ($2 each) and 6 Provinces ($0 each) for 66 points.

[HockeyHippo]

I get 60 with:

KC-KC-Goons-Goons-Trade Route.  This is a colony game, and the other seven piles are VP cards.  The TR value is therefore $11, and since you play the Goons first you don't trash anything.  Two KC-Goons give you $12, three TRs give $33 for $45 total, and you have 10 Buys total.  Purchase 4 Colonies for $44 (40 VP), then 6 Coppers.  Each buy gives 2 VP tokens, for 20 VP.

Umm I'm pretty sure you made a silly math mistake here. 4 colonies = 40 points. 6 Copper at 2VP each = 12 not 20 , giving you a total of 52

[Thisisnotasmile]

I get 60 with:

KC-KC-Goons-Goons-Trade Route.  This is a colony game, and the other seven piles are VP cards.  The TR value is therefore $11, and since you play the Goons first you don't trash anything.  Two KC-Goons give you $12, three TRs give $33 for $45 total, and you have 10 Buys total.  Purchase 4 Colonies for $44 (40 VP), then 6 Coppers.  Each buy gives 2 VP tokens, for 20 VP.

Umm I'm pretty sure you made a silly math mistake here. 4 colonies = 40 points. 6 Copper at 2VP each = 12 not 20 , giving you a total of 52

Buying the Colonies gives VP tokens too

[HockeyHippo]

I get 60 with:

KC-KC-Goons-Goons-Trade Route.  This is a colony game, and the other seven piles are VP cards.  The TR value is therefore $11, and since you play the Goons first you don't trash anything.  Two KC-Goons give you $12, three TRs give $33 for $45 total, and you have 10 Buys total.  Purchase 4 Colonies for $44 (40 VP), then 6 Coppers.  Each buy gives 2 VP tokens, for 20 VP.

Umm I'm pretty sure you made a silly math mistake here. 4 colonies = 40 points. 6 Copper at 2VP each = 12 not 20 , giving you a total of 52

Buying the Colonies gives VP tokens too

/facepalm

my mistake

[Fangz]

Depending on how you define this turn, KC KC Possession Possession Possession.

[david707]

I wasn't sure if Bridge was supposed to be excluded from your hand, but with it KC/KC/Bridge/Bridge/Bridge for $9 and -$9 costs in a Colony game gets you 4 Colonies ($2 each) and 6 Provinces ($0 each) for 66 points.

Effectively, there are two seprate puzzles, one with bridge allowed and one without. The reason I posted no bridges as a "variant" is I realised KCx2 Bridgex3 would be the best solution.

Edit: Spoilered

[Davio]

As far as Bridge solutions are concerned:

KC 2x - Bridge 3x gives you +9$ / -9$ with 9 buys, while KC 2x - Bridge 2x - Princess gives you +6$ / -8$ -12$ with 9 buys, allowing you to clear out the 8 Colonies in a 2p game + 1 Province for 86 VP. In a multiplayer game, you just take 9 Colonies for 90 VP. The hard part is getting a Tournament and a Province first, winning a Tournament and losing them both again! But it's a Perfect Hand puzzle, so I take it's allowed.

NVM: See below why part of my solution doesn't work, oh well, guess I was just too excited to double check.

[Thisisnotasmile]

As far as Bridge solutions are concerned:

KC 2x - Bridge 3x gives you +9$ / -9$ with 9 buys, while KC 2x - Bridge 2x - Princess gives you +6$ / -12$ with 9 buys, allowing you to clear out the 8 Colonies in a 2p game + 1 Province for 86 VP. The hard part is getting a Tournament and a Province first, winning a Tournament and losing them both again! But it's a Perfect Hand puzzle, so I take it's allowed.

Princess can't be KC'd. Well... it can but it doesn't work how you think it does.

[ehunt]

Depending on how you define this turn, KC KC Possession Possession Possession.

Ragequit

[Thisisnotasmile]

Well, Possession tells you that "The player to your left takes an extra turn after this one" which implies to me that you must wait until THIS turn has ENDED before possessing happens. So it doesn't matter how you define "this turn", it will have ended before you(r opponent) get(s) 9 extra turns.

[RobF]

I've got a novel solution for the no-Bridge version that's over 60.  Will post tomorrow, lest you think this challenge is done .

[RobF]

OP - can you clarify something about how this card should work in your puzzle: Trade Route?

Specifically, do I need the Kingdom to be consistent with my hand?  For example, if my hand is going to be KC/KC/..., then I need a KC pile and that's one fewer that's available for green cards to fund the TR, right?  I normally make sure my hand could have gotten into the state it's in somehow during the course of a legal game.  Do you agree?

[Kirian]

OP - can you clarify something about how this card should work in your puzzle: Trade Route?

Specifically, do I need the Kingdom to be consistent with my hand?  For example, if my hand is going to be KC/KC/..., then I need a KC pile and that's one fewer that's available for green cards to fund the TR, right?  I normally make sure my hand could have gotten into the state it's in somehow during the course of a legal game.  Do you agree?

Generally, you're expected to posit a legal set of 10, yes.  That said, you're perfectly welcome to place anything you want in a Black Market deck, so long as you only have one copy of any card from there in hand.  So, for my 60-point answer above, I could only have 7 piles of victory kingdom cards (11 total in a Colony game), because I needed KC, Goons, and Trade Route available.

[Blooki]

OP - can you clarify something about how this card should work in your puzzle: Trade Route?

I'm not the original poster, but he/she did say "no status on any mats." So unless you can find a way to gain all those victory cards to add the necessary Trade Route counters, I don't think your solution is valid under the original poster's constraints.

[Blooki]

Best I can get is 40 and it requires interaction with an opponent. =/

Update: Now I got 40 a totally different way which still requires interaction with an opponent. =/

Eureka! Update: Still requires a lot of interaction with an opponent, but managed to get 170 VP.

Kingdom: KC Jest GM Tourney Duke Gardens Nobles (trasher) (any) (any)                                    |
                                                                                                                                     |
Your starting hand is:                                                                                                         |
KC KC Jest GM Princess                                                                                                       |
                                                                                                                                      |
Your opponent's deck consists of 3 cards:                                                                              |
Jest GM & KC                                                                                                                    |
                                                                                                                                      |
KC                                                                                                                                   |
  KC                                                                                                                                 |
    Jest (gaining Jest GM KC)                                                                                                 |
    GM                                                                                                                              |
    KC                                                                                                                               |
      Jest (gaining Jest GM KC)                                                                                               |
      GM                                                                                                                             |
      KC                                                                                                                             |
        Jest (gaining Jest GM KC)                                                                                             |
        GM                                                                                                                           |
        KC                                                                                                                            |
          Jest (gaining Jest GM KC)                                                                                           |
          GM                                                                                                                         |
          KC                                                                                                                          |
            Jest (gaining Jest GM KC)                                                                                          |
            GM                                                                                                                        |
            KC                                                                                                                         |
              Jest (gaining Jest GM KC)                                                                                        |
              GM                                                                                                                      |
              KC                                                                                                                       |
                Jest (gaining Jest GM KC)                                                                                       |
                GM                                                                                                                     |
                KC                                                                                                                     |
                  Jest (gaining Jest GM nothing)                                                                               |
                  GM                                                                                                                   |
                  GM                                                                                                                   |
Jest (gaining nothing)                                                                                                            |
Princess                                                                                                                              |
                                                                                                                                         |
Coin: $104                                                                                                                           |
Buys: 29                                                                                                                              |
                                                                                                                                         |
8 Gardens   40 VP (57 cards)                                                                                                   |
8 Duchies   24 VP                                                                                                                  |
8 Dukes   64 VP                                                                                                                  |
4 Colonies   40 VP                                                                                                                  |
1 Nobles    2 VP                                                                                                                   |
---------------------                                                                                                             |
               170 VP                                                                                                                  |
                                                                                                                                          |
Cards: 57                                                                                                                             |
                                                                                                                                          |
Phew! 6 empty piles! Somebody feel free to check my math.                                                          |

[Elyv]

Blooki: Wow, even if it involves the opponent, that's an impressive solution. I count 28 buys not 29, but I don't think it matters. By the way, you can get more VP by Buying estates instead of coppers at the end.

44 without opponent interaction is actually pretty easy: KCx2, Goonsx3, buying Colony, Duchy, Estate, and 7 copper

[Blooki]

Blooki: Wow, even if it involves the opponent, that's an impressive solution. I count 28 buys not 29, but I don't think it matters. By the way, you can get more VP by Buying estates instead of coppers at the end.

44 without opponent interaction is actually pretty easy: KCx2, Goonsx3, buying Colony, Duchy, Estate, and 7 copper

Should be original buy +28 buys (9 KCed GMs & Princess. Did you forget that we start with one?). Also, no spare buys for Estates. I use all 29!

[DStu]

Your opponent's deck consists of 3 cards:                                                                             
Jest GM & KC         

Is it really that easy? If he only has 3 cards, he will have them all in hand. So you can't draw them with the Jester. So you either must manage to Torture him twice before, or ... ok, that's easier ... you change "deck" to "draw and discard-pile", and let him have 5 coppers in hand.


PS: Sorry for splitting hairs, only realized that the modification is that easy while writing the post.

[Blooki]

Now that you mention that. I wonder if there are even better solutions if I were to add more cards to the opponent's draw deck and count on perfect shuffling. I think the lesson here is to ban Jester/Smugglers/other mid-turn gainers like the OP did with Ironworks/Workshops/Universities from these puzzles else the possibilities are rather numerous.

[david707]

I think it's probably best to say it's a solitaire game, but your hand doesn't have to be "possible" (you don't have to have a trasher). My original solution for 44 was as Elyv stated, but I do like Kirian's solution even if it bends the rules a little. It was certainly fun looking through all the solutions

[RobF]

I haven't looked at Blooki's yet, but mine was an improvement along Kirian's lines (which bent the rules similarly):

KC/KC/Trusty Steed/Trade Routex2
Kingdom: 7 green cards + Colony, TR worth 11.  KC, TR, and Tournament are the other 3.
For your 6 choices from the Steed, elect: cash x3 ($6), 4 Silver x1, +2 cards x2 (drawing the Silvers).  Now with 4 extra cards in hand, the first KC'ed TR doesn't trash the other TR and you get 6 TR's each worth a colony a piece.  The extra $6 from the Steed and your normal buy gets you a Duchy for 63 total.

I think this method can definitely be improved to gain additional cards outside of the excluded Ironworks/Workshop/University.

[Kirian]

Ah, yes, when I saw "no status on any mats" I didn't really think about Trade Route; I was assuming you meant players' mats.  My bad!  I'm impressed by RobF's extension, though, that's a great use of a card function almost no one uses!!