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werothegreat

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Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« on: July 24, 2012, 12:37:37 pm »
+1

And no, before you start asking, it's nothing like Pit, though that is a fun game.  It's more like Dominion than anything else, and that's where I started drawing my first ideas, but I like to think it's deviated substantially enough from the source material.

This has only been playtested once, and I was actually pleasantly surprised by how well it went - I managed to put in more depth and complexity than I realized at the time.

Given that my cards are currently crudely cut bits of card stock with marker scribbled on them, I'll just post the rules as they stand:

STOCK MARKET GAME

Objective – have most money at end of game.
Contents:
-150 Money cards: 40 $1, 20 $5, 20 $10, 20 $50, 20 $100, 20 $500, 10 $2K
-160 Shares cards: 10 each of MILK, APPLES, WHEAT, COFFEE, TIN, BIKES, COPPER, COLA, RUBBER, FAST FOOD, PORN, SILVER, SAFFRON, GOLD, OIL, TECH
-77 Event cards
-3 Bankrupt cards

Each player starts with 8 $1 and 2 MILK (supports up to 4 players).  They shuffle these together – this is their deck.  They place it face down to their left.  To begin, they draw 5 cards.  The player with only money in their hands goes first, if there is one.
During their turn, each player may play any number of Shares cards they have.  They then decide whether they want to TRADE, or pass an EVENT, or CONSOLIDATE their money. 

If they TRADE, they first SELL any Shares they wish from their hand, gaining money into their hand.  They may then BUY any number of Shares, provided they have the money for it.  Bought cards go in their discard pile (to their right, face up).  Any cards left in their hand, or played in front of them, also go into their discard, and they draw 5 new cards.  If their deck does not have 5 or more cards left, they draw as many cards from their deck, then shuffle their discard, replace that as their deck, and draw the difference.

If they pass an EVENT, they draw an Event card from the Event pile, and either put it in the Boom/Bust spot, put it in their discard, or use it immediately, putting in the Event discard.  They do not discard their hand.

If they choose to CONSOLIDATE, they search through their deck, discard and hand for all of their money cards, and exchange lower bills for higher bills as much as they like, to try to slim their deck, and draw higher value money more often.  They then shuffle their deck and discard, and draw 5 new cards.  (This rule was added when we realized that our decks had too many $1 cards in them, and no way to switch them out for $5s and $10s)

Play continues until all the $2K cards have been taken.  The player who took it finishes their turn, then each other player, in turn order, takes one final turn.  The player with the most money wins. 

Bankruptcy: when a Share’s base price goes to $0, it goes bankrupt, and a Bankrupt card goes on top of the pile.  Bankrupt Shares cannot be bought or sold, and cannot be played.  A Bailout or Corruption card must be used to remove the Bankrupt card.  If the Share’s base price is not raised above $0 that turn, the Bankrupt card is returned.  If 4 or more Shares go bankrupt, the game ends.

The last card of a shares pile cannot be bought.  10 cards in each pile.
PRICE OF A SHARE = (10-number of cards left)*base cost – get your calculators out!  Use counters to tell how many cards have been taken.  When shares are bought or sold in bulk, use the price that the first share bought would use.  Make change when necessary – only return used money to the pile.

Shares and money are supply piles, face up.  The Events are shuffled in an Event deck, face down.  When money is spent or shares are sold, the cards go back to their respective piles.
On their turn, players may exchange money at any time – i.e., swap 5 one dollars for 1 five dollar, etc.


EVENTS:
Pension: Gives extra money or extra cards from your deck in hand each turn.  (Consider them permanent Merchant Ships or Caravans)
Bonus: Immediately gives money to discard.
Boom/Bust: Raises or lowers share prices – subtract or add using the number given on the share card.  For example, in a -2 Bust, use the 2nd number in on the lower row.  (Come in three flavors each: +1, +2, +3 and -1, -2, -3 - share piles have two rows of three numbers - use these to add/subtract)
Business As Usual: Cancels a Boom/Bust.
Bailout: Saves a company from Bankruptcy.  If the company’s share price is still $0, it will revert back to Bankruptcy at the end of that player’s turn.
ILLEGAL EVENTS: Dirty Business: Inflates or deflates the price of a specific share pile.  Use the numbers listed on the share cards, as with Boom/Bust.  DB and Boom/Bust inflations and deflations are cumulative.  DOWN DB can block a player’s pension.  UP DB can create a fake pension, yielding #*5 money each turn.
Corruption: Can instantly bankrupt a company, steal another player’s pension, instantly get $100 to hand (keep Corruption card in front of you), or bailout a company.
When Illegal cards are used, they remain on the applied pile or pension.
LEGAL EVENTS: Corporate Transparency: Cancels a Dirty Business.
Legal Action: Cancels a Corruption.   The cancelled player receives a Legal Action token.  Any player with 3 Legal Action tokens loses.
When an Illegal card is cancelled, or a Legal card is played, it is put in the Event discard.  Legal cards can be played even when it’s not your turn.

The game ends when any four companies are bankrupt, or when the highest value money pile is empty.  At this point, players count up their money (shares do not count as money).  The player with the most money wins.  If there’s a tie, the tied players spitefully congratulate each other.

GOALS:
-players can win through legal or illegal means, and are encouraged to try both.
-encourage players to draw from event deck

SHARES
-basic share – base cost $2 – never goes bankrupt - MILK
-base cost $3 – draw 1 card - APPLES
-base cost $3 – play two: +$1 to discard - WHEAT
-base cost $4 - +$1 this turn - TIN
-base cost $4 – return to stock, pass event - COFFEE
Base cost $5- draw 2 cards - BIKES
-base cost $6 - +$2 this turn - COPPER
-base cost $7 – +3 $1 to discard - RUBBER
-base cost $7 – draw 1 card, pass event - COLA
-base cost $8 – draw 3 cards – FAST FOOD
-base cost $10 – pass 2 events - PORN
-base cost $12 - +$6 this turn. - SILVER
-base cost $15 – draw 2 cards, +$5 to discard -SAFFRON
-base cost $20 - +$10 this turn, pass 2 events  - GOLD
-base cost $25 – pass 2 events, draw 3 cards, +$1, +$5 to discard - OIL
-base cost $50 – pass 2 events, draw 4 cards, +$10 this turn, +$10 to discard - TECH

UNTESTED POTENTIAL NEW CARDS:

+Card Pensions:  +1, +2, +3
You’re Fired! – lose a pension
Big Brother – cancel all DB and Cn – no LA taken
Speculate – All players pass hands to the left
Swiss Bank Account – Place Money card here.  Return it to your hand at any time.
New Stocks:
TOOLS - $9 – return to stock – search event deck for a card, and either put it into play, play it, or put it in your discard.  Shuffle Event deck.
SOLAR - $30 – Draw 5 cards
REAL ESTATE - $25 – Reveal top 4 events – for each different event, draw card.  Choose one of revealed Events to play – discard rest.
GUNS - $40 – Return to stock – target player’s pensions are ignored their next turn
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 12:51:12 pm »
0

Simple addition I think would help

Quote
The last card of a shares pile cannot be bought.  10 cards in each pile.
PRICE OF A SHARE = (10-number of cards left)*base cost – get your calculators out!  Use counters to tell how many cards have been taken.  When shares are bought or sold in bulk, use the price that the first share bought would use.  Make change when necessary – only return used money to the pile

Why not just write prices on the shares and put them in order.
For example

Share A has prices 13-23, and the 13 is on top. When this is bought the 14 is on top and therefore you know the new price. Any sold shares go back into the pile into the correct order.

Alternatively, you can shuffle them up and this would represent market fluctuations.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 01:05:26 pm »
0

Simple addition I think would help

Quote
The last card of a shares pile cannot be bought.  10 cards in each pile.
PRICE OF A SHARE = (10-number of cards left)*base cost – get your calculators out!  Use counters to tell how many cards have been taken.  When shares are bought or sold in bulk, use the price that the first share bought would use.  Make change when necessary – only return used money to the pile

Why not just write prices on the shares and put them in order.
For example

Share A has prices 13-23, and the 13 is on top. When this is bought the 14 is on top and therefore you know the new price. Any sold shares go back into the pile into the correct order.

Alternatively, you can shuffle them up and this would represent market fluctuations.

Let's say you buy 13 through 20 of Share A.  When you want to sell four of them, you might not have 20, 19, 18 and 17 in your hand.  And what do you do when you buy or sell in bulk?  This makes it easier in that sense.  The game is intended to be for the mathematically inclined.  Given the stuff brought up in the Dominion threads, I'm pretty sure most of you won't mind all that much.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2012, 08:49:36 pm »
0

Any other comments?  What do you all think?
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2012, 11:17:36 pm »
0

I'd recommend using a board with tokens to track the share prices (several stock games use something similar).  Otherwise things would get terrible to keep track of I think.  Though looking at the rules more, I'm not even certain how you could do that...  Perhaps each share card has a 7x10 grid on it, and just use one token?  That makes the cards 7 Wonders size, of course.

I find the concept interesting but without testing things I couldn't give much more advice; it looks cool but balance is gonna be a pain in the ass.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2012, 11:20:59 pm »
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I'd recommend using a board with tokens to track the share prices (several stock games use something similar).  Otherwise things would get terrible to keep track of I think.  Though looking at the rules more, I'm not even certain how you could do that...  Perhaps each share card has a 7x10 grid on it, and just use one token?  That makes the cards 7 Wonders size, of course.

I find the concept interesting but without testing things I couldn't give much more advice; it looks cool but balance is gonna be a pain in the ass.

Balance probably will be ass-pain.  And I do use tokens - I believe that's mentioned up there.  In testing, we just used pennies and nickels, putting them just above the relevant pile.  So you could easily (relatively) add the boom/bust to the base price, and multiply it by the number of tokens, then by the number of shares you want to buy/sell.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 09:52:50 am »
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Tables/tokens or something to track share prices is a must.  Even I don't want to bust out calculators and compute formulas when focusing on a game (and I normally go gaga for that stuff).  Acquire has a nice little table tracking share prices for various hotel sizes, and Hermagor (a really weird game) has a table with counters tracking moving value for different commodities.

One totally useless comment, if you ever need a commodity that never moves price for balancing issues, you can call it rock.  Then you never have to worry about people commenting that "realistically, stock prices should always be able to move".  'Cause it's fucking rock.
(find that reference, go!)

On the whole, this sounds interesting, sounds like something I'd give a try.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 10:09:21 am »
+1

On the whole, this sounds interesting, sounds like something I'd give a try.

Up-vote this post if you'd try this game if I posted the card sheets to cut out and more formalized rules.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 12:32:21 pm »
0

On the whole, this sounds interesting, sounds like something I'd give a try.

Up-vote this post if you'd try this game if I posted the card sheets to cut out and more formalized rules.

I'd be somewhat interested, but I probably don't have the right people in my game group to pull it off for you.

Might I suggest heading to the Board Game Designer Forum?
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 12:39:44 pm »
0

On the whole, this sounds interesting, sounds like something I'd give a try.

Up-vote this post if you'd try this game if I posted the card sheets to cut out and more formalized rules.

I'd be somewhat interested, but I probably don't have the right people in my game group to pull it off for you.

Might I suggest heading to the Board Game Designer Forum?

Link?
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2012, 01:37:11 pm »
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http://www.bgdf.com/

I believe it's run by Seth Jaffee, who designed Eminent Domain.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2012, 10:03:17 pm »
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http://www.bgdf.com/

I believe it's run by Seth Jaffee, who designed Eminent Domain.

Not a very active community, is it?
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2012, 11:22:16 pm »
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http://www.bgdf.com/

I believe it's run by Seth Jaffee, who designed Eminent Domain.

Not a very active community, is it?

I'm not a member, I just kinda know about it.  Is it dead?
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2012, 01:00:31 am »
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Other than the Dominion inspiration, I'm wondering why the Share themselves do anything.  It seems like you might have enough meat in the game with the Events and Pensions.  Limit the number of trades you can make in a turn rather than the cards in hand.  Maybe pay out dividends on some stocks if they're kept during a boom.  Or events that affect multiple industries.

That may be a bit too many changes, of course.  I think an example hand or two might help me follow it more, since I may just be missing something on the Shares as Actions concept.  With the trading option, it seems that every share is like Treasure/Action, and money is like Treasure/Victory, with as much TFB as you need.

I love the contrast with Dominion on the tie rule though.  Instead of rejoicing in a shared victory, you spitefully congratulate each other. :)
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2012, 09:03:10 am »
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Other than the Dominion inspiration, I'm wondering why the Share themselves do anything.  It seems like you might have enough meat in the game with the Events and Pensions.  Limit the number of trades you can make in a turn rather than the cards in hand.  Maybe pay out dividends on some stocks if they're kept during a boom.  Or events that affect multiple industries.

That may be a bit too many changes, of course.  I think an example hand or two might help me follow it more, since I may just be missing something on the Shares as Actions concept.  With the trading option, it seems that every share is like Treasure/Action, and money is like Treasure/Victory, with as much TFB as you need.

I love the contrast with Dominion on the tie rule though.  Instead of rejoicing in a shared victory, you spitefully congratulate each other. :)

The shares do stuff and you draw 5 cards every turn mainly because of Dominion, yes.  But thinking on it, if I were just buying and selling stocks, with the events, it wouldn't be as interesting.  And it's perfectly possible, due to the Pensions and the playing of certain shares, to draw your entire deck in a turn.  Then, the limiting factor is that if you Trade, you have to sell everything you want at once, and then buy everything you want at once.  You can't keep buying and selling, otherwise your turn would go on forever.

Think of it like this:

Shares are Actions that can be sold back to the kingdom for (usually) a profit.  All Money are Treasure/Victory cards.  The events are there to mess with prices, encourage you to mess with each other, and to ensure that no one sits on all the pensions.  With the two playtests I've had: in the first one, I and the other player both used the event deck, and it seemed pretty even.  In the second one, the other player neglected the event deck, and I was soon bankrupting companies he heavily invested in (for example, he bought all the Bikes, which would have allowed him to draw his entire deck - key word, WOULD).  So it seems that as it stands, players will have to plow through the event deck, and will need shares in stocks like Coffee, Tools, Porn, Oil or Tech in order to go through the event deck at a sufficient rate.

EXAMPLE HAND:

Alex and Bob decide to play.  They start off with a deck of 8 $1 and 2 Milk shares.  The Milk pile starts off with 4 tokens.

Alex draws a hand of 2 Milks and 3 $1.  Milks cannot be played for any effect - they simply cannot go bankrupt.  So Alex decides to Trade.  Milk currently costs (2*4)=$8 per share, so he sells his shares for a total of $16, giving him $19.  He spends that on a share in Porn, and a share in Tools.  Those both go to his discard (he has no cards in play or in his hand to discard), and he draws 5 new cards.

Since Alex went first, the price of Milk has dropped for Bob's turn.  Bob draws a hand of 1 Milk and 4 $1.  Given that Milk is now $4 a share, Bob decides to keep his hand and pass an Event.  He flips over the top card of the Event deck, which turns out to be a $10 Pension, which he places in front of himself.

Alex draws 5 $1, which is the rest of his initial deck.  He also decides to pass an event.  He flips over a Boom +3, which goes into the Boom/Bust spot next to the Event deck. (The amount a share's base price changes is written on the card - for example, Milk's Boom line is +1,2,3, and its Bust line is -1,1,1 - the 3rd number of the Boom line happens to be 3, so Milk's base price is now $5 - with two Milk shares bought, Milk is now trading at $10 a pop.)

Bob, having kept his last hand, once again starts with 1 Milk and 4 $1.  He gains a $10 from the bank, and puts it in his hand, because of his Pension.  Bob decides to Trade, selling his Milk for ((2+3)*2)=$10.  He now has $24 in total to work with.  Given the Boom, stock prices are much higher.  For example, Rubber, which has a normal base price of $7, is trading for (7+5)=$12, so Bob could buy 2 Rubber shares if he so desires.  However, Bob wants to wait for a Bust to come around to purchase any stocks, so he simply discards his hand, leaving only his Pension in front of him.  He draws the rest of his deck - 1 Milk and 4 $1.

(end example)

As you can see, deck turnaround can be both faster and slower than Dominion.  Is this making more sense?
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2012, 02:48:44 pm »
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That helps a lot, thanks.  So although all the shares do things, if you're hoping for a boom to sell in, you might want to hold on to them.  I notice that TRADE and CONSOLIDATE all have you draw a new 5-card hand, but EVENT does not.  If you had already played some shares as actions on a turn that you pass an event, do you draw up to 5 at the end?  Also, what does +$X to discard refer to?

I'm a huge fan of deckbuilding games (no surprise), and though I don't have the resources to do a demo, it's interesting.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2012, 04:08:48 pm »
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I like the sound of this.  I'm unlikely to actually print a set and playtest, but I do want to encourage you to keep developing it.

Mecherath, I think +$X to discard means gain money cards up to that value.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2012, 06:46:43 pm »
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If you had already played some shares as actions on a turn that you pass an event, do you draw up to 5 at the end?

No.  Glad you like it!
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2012, 01:15:08 am »
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Looking at things, I'm wondering... shouldn't your first action in every game be to Consolidate?  I'd much rather have $5, 3 $1s, and 2 shares...

Like qmech, I think it's an idea you should keep developing, but I don't think I can playtest... as I said before, my game group wouldn't go for this, maybe with one exception.
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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2012, 03:43:20 pm »
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I've finished creating source files for the cards if any of you are interested in printing out a copy.
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werothegreat

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Re: Stock Market Game I'm trying to create!
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2012, 11:17:14 am »
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The board game designers forum seems very dead - or at least, they're ignoring my post.

For anyone who's interested, the files to print out for playtesting are available here: http://www.bgdf.com/node/6883

Just scroll all the way down, and note how many of each file you need to print.  Use card stock!
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Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

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