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Author Topic: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!  (Read 30847 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #75 on: August 06, 2012, 04:23:51 pm »
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Finally got a decent placement. :)
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #76 on: August 06, 2012, 04:30:51 pm »
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Meh, apparently I should have left out the potiony bits (or saved this card for challenge #10 or something).  Oh well.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #77 on: August 06, 2012, 04:32:44 pm »
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Congratulations to Kirian's Amulet! Could see this result coming from a mile away. It's such a nice card. I gave it 2 points, but I am a little disappointed a new non-attack interaction mechanic didn't win since it's such a thin space at the moment.

And actually, I kind of like Dragonfruit as the official name. Or maybe Dragon's Fruit? Dragons like treasure...
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ChocophileBenj

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #78 on: August 06, 2012, 04:48:19 pm »
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GG Kirian, even if without you I'd probably have won because we nearly had the same idea ^^

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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2012, 04:55:09 pm »
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Congratulations to Kirian's Amulet! Could see this result coming from a mile away. It's such a nice card. I gave it 2 points, but I am a little disappointed a new non-attack interaction mechanic didn't win since it's such a thin space at the moment.

And actually, I kind of like Dragonfruit as the official name. Or maybe Dragon's Fruit? Dragons like treasure...

I voted for it, but I actually think it is a little boring.  However, that is not necessarily a bad thing.  We need some simple cards in the set too. :P
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ChocophileBenj

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #80 on: August 06, 2012, 05:06:41 pm »
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Yes, I knew a too complicated wouldn't be that interesting for a contest with many cards, some of them much simpler than mine.

But I'm like this. When you ask me to design something, I'm often proud of my creations, but I also often miss the fact that I get too complicated while other people design other simpler, and as good as, or even better things.
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Dsell

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2012, 05:10:22 pm »
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I am really happy with my placement this time! Also, I didn't get through all the cards in time to vote again, but I like Amulet a lot and Artificer (Clementine) was my favorite card! :D
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Kirian

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #82 on: August 06, 2012, 06:18:00 pm »
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Holy crap!  Thanks all.

For the record, Amulet was every bit as much a placeholder name as Dragonfruit.  I'm open to better suggestions.

Edit:  That said, the art yuma chose in the other thread is pretty nice.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 07:09:03 pm by Kirian »
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Powerman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #83 on: August 06, 2012, 06:55:54 pm »
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Quote
#15 (tie) - Flag by Powerman with 5 points (Cantaloupe)
$3 - Action
Choose one: +2 Cards; or +$2; or the player to your left chooses +3 Cards or +$3.
Each player (including you) may trash a card from their hand.  If no one does, each player gains a Silver, placing it on top of their deck.
A lot of you talked about how my card was too strong for $3, which I agree.  I had to change the card to fit the rules of the contest, but here is how it originally read:

Quote
Flag
$3 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards; or +$2; or the player to your left chooses +3 Cards or +$3
_________________
While this is in play, when you buy a card, your opponents may trash a card from their hand.

I think this is a lot more balanced, but are there any thoughts?
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Tables

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #84 on: August 06, 2012, 07:15:24 pm »
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Amulet looks like an interesting card, but I'm concerned about multiplayer games with it in particular, where it seems that if one person picks one up early, you can probably pretty much treat the whole game as having $5 Golds. Well, maybe not always. But often. Actually, it's probably less of an issue than I thought.

I'm surprised by the margin it won by. I voted for Peach and Clementine, and barely added Dragonfruit at the end after a bit of thinking. Clementine in particular looked very interesting to me, a kind of different Envoy, probably very hard to use, but very interesting.

My submission here was one of my favourite cards, not just that I've made, but actually one of my favourite Dominion cards I've used, period. I originally wanted to submit it to the terminal draw contest, but it didn't satisfy the criteria quite (as you often trash one copper). It's a deck thinning terminal drawer which thins your opponents decks, which is quite useful, and generally leads to some fun games. It's fairly average power wise. It tends to thin decks of copper early, before throwing them back in towards the end game. If both players have them, it can also lead to a lot of interesting choices. I had one game with this where my opponent TR'd one early, when I had no coppers in hand (I had 7 coppers in deck and was relying on his Smelt to trash my coppers), hit 4 coppers into two silver, then played it again a little later... with two coppers, while I had none then managed to Salvage it and bought some other drawer. I lost that game, somehow...
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Tejayes

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #85 on: August 06, 2012, 07:52:36 pm »
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Congrats to Kirian for an incredibly well-deserved victory!
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Mecherath

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #86 on: August 06, 2012, 08:06:53 pm »
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Grats Kirian!  Considering nobody was even close to you, I'm pretty pleased with my 2nd place tie on this one.  On the other hand, other than Kirian, the spread is pretty thin for the rest of the cards.  Wonder if any of these ideas will show up in the Dark Ages previews. :)

I think WW might have touched upon the main thing I was going for with World's Fair / Banana - divergent strategies.  If you are going for cards your opponent doesn't want, then he might take one to keep you from getting them all, but if he's not planning to use that card, it's not great for him.

It's also useful for you to grab a gold on your deck while your opponents get a gold in their discard.  Used like that it accelerates the game, which I think is fun.  Sort of like how Bishops can get everybody very trim decks quickly.

A few other people mentioned the risk of using World's Fairs to get more World's Fairs to end a pile quickly.  But you can't force your opponents to take one.  So early on you probably don't want to waste your terminal $3 to get another terminal $3 (at this point your opponents might want it).  If you're actively trying to 3-pile, they definitely won't be helping you.
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Kirian

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #87 on: August 06, 2012, 08:12:32 pm »
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Congratulations to Kirian's Amulet! Could see this result coming from a mile away. It's such a nice card. I gave it 2 points, but I am a little disappointed a new non-attack interaction mechanic didn't win since it's such a thin space at the moment.

I voted for it, but I actually think it is a little boring.  However, that is not necessarily a bad thing.  We need some simple cards in the set too. :P

I think having some simple cards is good too!

Amulet looks like an interesting card, but I'm concerned about multiplayer games with it in particular, where it seems that if one person picks one up early, you can probably pretty much treat the whole game as having $5 Golds. Well, maybe not always. But often. Actually, it's probably less of an issue than I thought.

Yeah, in creating it my thought process was kinda like this:  The $5 Gold design space is pretty open.  So this would be a great place to give all the other players an advantage instead of giving the purchaser a disadvantage (Cache and Contraband).  One of Contraband's problems in games without alternate VP cards is that it becomes nearly useless in the endgame.  Cache, meanwhile, is a big liability from start to finish unless you have a way of quickly getting rid of the extra coppers (Chapel, Trader, Watchtower, etc.)  Amulet doesn't have the same disadvantages that keep Cache and Contraband from ever showing up above the bottom third of the "best $5" cards.  In a game with heavy trashing elsewhere, it's probably a no-brainer pickup that will just make the game faster.  In a game with mediocre (or no!) trashing, though, it can be a big boost to your opponent--much as it's often possible to skip Bishop if your opponent opens with it early.
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yuma

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #88 on: August 06, 2012, 08:14:21 pm »
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Edit:  That said, the art yuma chose in the other thread is pretty nice.

Feel free to change it, it was actually kind of a struggle to find anything that would work...
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #89 on: August 07, 2012, 11:57:29 am »
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I just noticed that all official Kingdom Treasures with on-play wordings say "When you play this, ...". So, Amulet should probably read:

Amulet
$5 - Treasure
Worth $3
When you play this, each other player may trash a card from his hand.
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Kelume

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2012, 02:19:05 pm »
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Just wanted to thank popsofctown for defending my poor Carambola. :)

While it's true that I didn't consider 5-6 player (I did not know these were official possibilities and have never seen them played), I am a little baffled that it's regarded as far too strong. I've tested $4 terminal golds a few times and they never pan out to be quite as strong as one would think due to the risk of collision and worthlessness in combination with terminal draw.

In money games, the silver is the obvious choice; in engine games, the trashing. So, if you are going for the same strategy as your opponent, this card is deceptively weak. Where it shines is when strategies diverge, and indeed I feel like it promotes that nicely (and then provides interesting opportunities to deny your opponent options they need.) With more players it only becomes more interesting as often you gain a small early benefit in exchange for your opponents' choices slightly altering your needed gameplan.

Anyway, I thought it worked nicely, I'll try for something more appealing next challenges. : )
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Kirian

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #8: Non-Attack Interaction!
« Reply #91 on: August 07, 2012, 02:23:42 pm »
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I just noticed that all official Kingdom Treasures with on-play wordings say "When you play this, ...". So, Amulet should probably read:

Amulet
$5 - Treasure
Worth $3
When you play this, each other player may trash a card from his hand.

You're correct!  Thanks for the catch.
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