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Author Topic: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?  (Read 42535 times)

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Matt_Arnold

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Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« on: July 24, 2011, 11:25:41 pm »
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Text often fails to convey tone-- I am not complaining or criticizing (which would be odd), but curious enough to wonder if there is any gossip.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these details. It has been previously mentioned that Rio Grande plans to publish two Dominion expansions per year: a half-size set in the spring, and a full-size set in the fall. This process is supposed to end in 2012, with the final planned expansion (although some more cards might come out in the unforeseeable future).

Last year, Dominion: Prosperity was discussed on Boardgamegeek.com as early as March, revealed its theme and color text around May 25, It was announced as an "August/September" release, Jay Tummelson revealed Counting House and Contraband around August 1, I bought it at GenCon, and by August 11 we actually had DXV's Secret History of Prosperity.

Naturally, many (if not perhaps most) highly-anticipated games arrive a couple of months later than the predicted date. That's normal. What piques my curiosity is that, nearing the end of July, we do not even know the name of this year's large Dominion expansion.

I find myself, as if an expectant uncle, at a loss for what name to call the fetus, and perhaps even its pronoun, despite that the parents have presumably had an ultrasound like they did with all their previous pregnancies. It is one of the foremost topics of discussion by the extended family, because they already know they love this person who they have not met, and yet they all circumlocute awkwardly for lack of language. That is what my game group is like now. Forgive my amazingly rubbish metaphor!

What strikes me as out of the ordinary is that the process has not publicly begun its first step. Perhaps a different, more mysterious and dramatic marketing strategy on the part of Rio Grande?

If it takes as long as previous timetables, would that not mean Dominion: 2011 will not arrive until perhaps February 2012? Has any "Dominion meteorologist" tracked how long most previous expansions have taken from name announcement to store shelves, so that we can make forecasts as foolhardy as any weatherman?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 11:27:47 pm by Matt_Arnold »
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Donald X.

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2011, 12:08:33 am »
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What strikes me as out of the ordinary is that the process has not publicly begun its first step. Perhaps a different, more mysterious and dramatic marketing strategy on the part of Rio Grande?
A better guess is "Jay is busy getting stuff done so that it can actually come out in October." This is a busy time of year for game companies.

Prosperity came out in August, at GenCon. Most people could not get it for a few more months, but that was unintentional. The next Dominion expansion comes out in October. Two months later, relatively, than Prosperity. Seaside, which came out at Essen, ~October 19th, was first announced on October 5th.

In the end the information timeline will be as follows. One day, Jay will post the blurb; there's no saying when, just, sometime after yesterday and before Essen. Then you will have that information, but no other information. Then, a week before Essen, I will post some previews. Then at Essen people will get it and then someone who has it will spoil the set. Then I'll post a Secret History.
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Willvon

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2011, 06:31:45 pm »
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Thank you very much, Donald X, for your candid summary of what to expect.  I too have been wondering.  I am newer to Dominion than others, but when I compared the comments about Prosperity to when it was released, it seemed like we should be hearing some tidbit soon.
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Matt_Arnold

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2011, 10:23:19 am »
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I got to meet Jay Tummelson yesterday at GenCon. When I asked him, he cupped his hands around his mouth as a megaphone and cried out to the room, "HINTERLANDS!" He doesn't care who knows. It's like Donald said: He's just busy!
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Donald X.

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2011, 05:28:39 pm »
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I got to meet Jay Tummelson yesterday at GenCon. When I asked him, he cupped his hands around his mouth as a megaphone and cried out to the room, "HINTERLANDS!" He doesn't care who knows. It's like Donald said: He's just busy!
I confirm that the next expansion is called Hinterlands.
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kazztawdal

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2011, 05:35:45 pm »
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I confirm that the next expansion is called Hinterlands.

I've had awful pain in my Hinterlands before.  I could barely sit.
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Kirian

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2011, 10:18:01 pm »
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I got to meet Jay Tummelson yesterday at GenCon. When I asked him, he cupped his hands around his mouth as a megaphone and cried out to the room, "HINTERLANDS!" He doesn't care who knows. It's like Donald said: He's just busy!
I confirm that the next expansion is called Hinterlands.

Will it be full of trolls?

/let the WOW jokes commence!
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michaeljb

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2011, 11:57:10 am »
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Will it be full of trolls?
I think the real question we need to consider is what will the village be called? Maybe they go together--Troll's Village.
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tlloyd

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2011, 12:32:07 pm »
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I got to meet Jay Tummelson yesterday at GenCon. When I asked him, he cupped his hands around his mouth as a megaphone and cried out to the room, "HINTERLANDS!" He doesn't care who knows. It's like Donald said: He's just busy!
I confirm that the next expansion is called Hinterlands.

So this may just be my limited vocabulary speaking, but is there a reason "Hinterlands" got the nod over "Frontiers" or some other more common synonym?
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Thanar

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 08:51:34 pm »
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Quote
So this may just be my limited vocabulary speaking, but is there a reason "Hinterlands" got the nod over "Frontiers" or some other more common synonym?

I think it is due to the fact that the word "Hinterland(s)" has a germanic origin:

    Origin: 188590; < German: literally, hinder land, i.e., land behind (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hinterland)

...and Dominion was designed and made in Germany.

Other words/phrases with similar origin ideas would be "Back Country" or "Outback" (in Australia) but I think they have connotations that wouldn't jive with the generic medieval theme.
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Donald X.

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2011, 01:25:02 am »
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So this may just be my limited vocabulary speaking, but is there a reason "Hinterlands" got the nod over "Frontiers" or some other more common synonym?
- Connotations, as Thanar notes (though Dominion was designed in the US of A). "Frontier" for example has wild west connotations that I didn't want.
- I like the sound of "Hinterlands." I like that it's an uncommon word.
- It's cute that for some people, it will sound like the opposite of Seaside. It does not however have cards that do something on your previous turn.
- David Bowie - Red Sails
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Kirian

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2011, 02:38:28 am »
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It does not however have cards that do something on your previous turn.

Awwwwww time travelling cards would be awesome:

"Now and at the start of your previous turn: +$2.

If this card is in your deck, at the start of your turn, you may name this card and ask the player to your left to examine the top five cards of your deck.  The player plays any copies of this card in front of you; these cards will have been played on your next turn, and are in play this turn.  That player returns the remaining cards to the top of your deck.  At the end of this turn, you draw one fewer card for each copy of this card that will have been played during your next turn.

If you play this card from your hand, you will have lost any benefit, on your previous turn, of having been allowing it to will have been played this turn, during your previous turn."

Eat your heart out, Dr. Streetmentioner...
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Razzishi

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2011, 07:12:50 pm »
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Clearly the Village is going be called "Inland Village" or "Backwoods Village", combining the Village needed in with the idea that they need a card in the set that means the same thing as the name of the set. 

(For those unaware, "Cornucopia" is the original Latin for "Horn of Plenty".)
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Axe Knight

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2011, 09:30:40 pm »
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I've been racking my brain for awhile trying to figure out a new mechanic, or a new theme that the new set could possibly be.  Other than new hybrids like, Attack-Treasure, or Duration-Treasure, I can only think about cards that strictly affect only cleanup, or cards that are extremely expensive and so powerful you usually only get one or two and it changes the rest of play.  This is only a few months away, so surely (no Airplane) we'll be hearing more soon. 
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2011, 03:50:35 am »
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Duration-Treasure

Won't happen. Durations are a Seaside-only thing.
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Davio

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2011, 09:45:30 am »
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Hey, it's only the 21st time that I can mention Curse - ??? as a new card type!

Heathen Village
Action - Curse
Cost: 0

+2 Actions
-2 VP


When I think about "Hinterlands" I think about unexplored jungles full of un(der)developed settlements and pagan rituals, kind of like the opposite of Prosperity. The Prosperity rulebook has a great intro text explaining how you have the world's tiniest dog and a statue of Baklava; all of which attribute to your status as a super wealthy medieval Paris Hilton.

Before hearing the name "Hinterlands" I thought the new expansion might have some Halloween-ish theme. Prosperity is about abundance and Cornucopia (Horn of Plenty) maybe even more so, because it rewards diversification. The new expansion may cause players to have to scramble more and may contain a lot of mean cards. The developers don't have to treat us like children any more, because it's already the 6th (or 5th if you don't consider Intrigue an expansion). They can throw anything our way and we will deal with it.

Here is a summary of governing ideas of the sets:
Base: The easiest cards go here, letting players get used to main ideas like extra actions, cards, buys and coins and trashing and discarding and it contains the first Curser
Intrigue: This set is about choice and interaction and has the first dual type cards
Alchemy: It's about Power, this set has some very powerful cards, but they require Potions, making them harder to obtain than regular cards
Seaside: All about your next turn and planning ahead
Prosperity: Luxury galore, do your triple King's Court-thing while I take a 10 min. toilet break
Cornucopia: Diversity is the key word, I guess
Hinterlands: Struggling and scrambling?


Another card which may fit the theme and idea of Hinterlands:

Witch Doctor
Action - Attack
Cost: 5

+1 Action
Reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Curses into your hand. Put the other cards on top of your deck in any order.
Every other player gains a Curse.
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guided

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2011, 12:08:33 pm »
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I've said it numerous times before and I'll say it again every time the subject comes up: desirable cards with negative VPs on them are not balanced. You can use the card to build some awesome deck quickly and then trash it later! There are all kinds of ways to try fixing the problem (negative VP chips, "if you trash this gain curses", etc), but none of them work either.

Witch Doctor is the seed of an interesting idea but may be too weak as-is. Maybe add +1 card and price it at $6? though that kind of stomps on Familiar's territory.
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play2draw

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2011, 12:53:06 pm »
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Dice. Hinterlands is the dice expansion.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2011, 01:52:35 pm »
+2

I suspect that Hinterlands will help big money-esque strategies a good bit. I also think it will have cards that boost silver, specifically.

What's this based on? Donald X. said somewhere that this expansion was in some way simpler than the previous one, and then there have been an increasing number of published cards (Trusty Steed) where silver pops up in a somewhat strange spot. Also Hinterlands gives me a very bare bones impression, like big money.

chwhite

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2011, 02:57:45 pm »
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Well, Prosperity was the so-called "Big Money" expansion.  I do think at some point there will be a card that gives incentives for having silver, but it won't be the theme of an entire expansion.  Or maybe there won't be: Donald said he once playtested a Big Moneylender which trashed Silver for $5 and basically nobody ever bought it.

I think there is going to be a "pain" expansion at some point: lots of attacks, cards with strong powers but significant drawbacks.  Hinterlands might be that expansion.  A few things I'd like to see:

* Weird spaces for new attacks.  A $2 attack?  An Attack-Treasure?  I'm kinda disappointed that there's never going to be a Duration attack.
* A Militia-like attack where you look at their hand and choose what to discard.  If there's a way to make it not too brutal, of course.
* Some sort of Tutor- look at the top X cards of your deck and put one in your hand?  Feels like it would be thematic, what with all the (inland this time) exploring.
* If this is an attack-heavy expansion, it would be nice to have a card which is powerful, but prevents you from playing any of those attacks.  Add sort of a "guns vs. butter" tension to the games it's in.  I was sort of thinking something like this:

MONASTERY
$4
+1 Action
If you have not played an Attack this turn, draw until you have six cards in hand.  You may not play an Attack card this turn.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 03:02:12 pm by chwhite »
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guided

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2011, 03:11:37 pm »
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No particular reason other than thinking it's a lame idea, but I'd bet there will ever be a published Dominion card that specifically boosts Silver or consumes Silver.
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eggnoir

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2011, 04:19:14 pm »
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From Wikipedia:

"Hinterland" was borrowed from German, where it means literally the land behind (a city, a port or similar),[1] with the English cognate hind land.[2] In English, the term was first used in 1888 by George Chisholm in his work Handbook of Commercial Geography.[3] In German this word sometimes also describes the part of a country where only a few people live and where the infrastructure is underdeveloped; although "Provinz" (equal to "province") is more common. The direct analogy in English is "back country" or "the countryside". See also The Bush of Alaskan and The Outback of Australian usage.

"Hinterland" means a rural area surrounding the urban catchment of large cities or agglomerations. It is characterized by a less dense population and infrastructure. In shipping usage, a port's hinterland is the area that it serves, both for imports and for exports. The size of a hinterland can depend on geography, but also on the ease, speed, and cost of transportation between the port and the hinterland.[4]


Wild speculation time:
- This set will be, in some ways, the opposite of Prosperity (as previously speculated by Davio). It's about people leaving the hustle and bustle of city life to strike out into harsh new territory. Resources will be scarce, and people will have to make the best of what little they have. Estates and coppers will rise in value in the Hinterlands.
- There will be cards that punish 'city slickers', as in high costing cards. Something like Saboteur, but hopefully much, much, much better.
- There will be a card called 'Fur Trapper'. Because there's always plenty of cash to be made from slaughtering newfound species!

I was hoping for something that made cursing your opponents dangerous, such as a VP card that gives you 1 VP per 2 curses in your deck, or maybe allows you to discard curses for monetary benefit (better than Vault/Secret Chamber), but Hinterlands doesn't strike me as the right fit from a flavour perspective. Of course, I could be way off track.... which is dangerous in the HINTERLANDS!
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Epoch

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2011, 04:20:53 pm »
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Well, Prosperity was the so-called "Big Money" expansion.  I do think at some point there will be a card that gives incentives for having silver, but it won't be the theme of an entire expansion.  Or maybe there won't be: Donald said he once playtested a Big Moneylender which trashed Silver for $5 and basically nobody ever bought it.

Well, that's really more because the Moneylender mechanic is strong for Copper and not-strong for Silver, than because there's something inherently wrong with interacting with Silver.  Moneylender's appeal depends on the notion that you start off with a ton of Copper, and don't really want that Copper, so trashing it for benefit appeals.  Also, the $3 is well-situated for an early accelerator.  Trashing Silver for $5 implies that you bought a ton of Silver (so that some of it coincides with the Action), and that you no longer want it, and that $5 isn't going to send you into the realm of "I just got a lot of money I can't use."

Contrast with something that, say, digs for Silver, like a more targeted Adventurer.  "Action - Dig for two Silver.  $4"  That would clearly be a valuable-ass card in the early game.  Maybe game-breakingly good, actually.  I suspect also that a Silversmith card that worked like this:  "Action.  +1 Buy.  Silver played this turn produce an extra $1" would be surprisingly good.  (Obvious response:  Coppersmith isn't very good, and it uses the more available Copper.  Counterpoint:  In a Province game which isn't engine-oriented, at least, Silver is neutral-to-positive in your deck, while Copper is bad.  The +buy means that you can actually use the occasional big-extra-money hand without also somehow getting a non-terminal +buy or a village/+buy combo into play at the same time).

Or a later-game trash-for-benefit for Silver could also be useful, especially if combined with a dig.  "Action - Dig for a Silver.  If you find it, trash it and gain a Duchy."

Obviously, I have no idea whether there will be anything that targets silver will ever be in the game, but the failure of the super-Moneylender doesn't mean you could introduce a successful silver-targeting card.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2011, 04:31:14 pm »
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Actually, that he even tried it lends more evidence in my mind that we'll see some "silver matters" cards in the future.

tko

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2011, 04:46:54 pm »
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I think a Super-Moneylender that trashed a "treasure" (as in any card with type "treasure") would be at least interesting.  It solves the issue of drawing Moneylender dead after most Coppers are gone.
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