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Author Topic: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)  (Read 7650 times)

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Polk5440

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Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« on: July 22, 2012, 12:09:47 am »
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This evening the pirate ship economist, Bella Cullen, and I played a couple of games with Canal (and 9 other randomly determined cards) to test it out. The first game ended up being much more interesting than anticipated:

Game 1: Vineyard, Herbalist, Fortune Teller, Develop, Village, Masquerade, Apprentice, Goons, Possession, Canal (with Platinum and Colony, too)

Before I reveal how it went for us, I am curious how you would have played this Kingdom in a three player game?

In a few days, I'll post how it went for us along with a second game that we played.

For reference:

Canal
$6* - Victory

When the game ends, if the Province or Colony supply pile is empty (if it was available), then this is worth 4 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 2 VP.
--
During your Buy phase, if two supply piles are empty, then this costs $3.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 12:13:49 am by Polk5440 »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 01:10:22 am »
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I see Village and Goons...
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Morgrim7

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 02:49:49 am »
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I see Village and Goons...
With Apprentice to help and Masq for trashing and some card draw? Oh, man.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 02:59:06 am »
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I see Village and Goons...
With Apprentice to help and Masq for trashing and some card draw? Oh, man.

Although maybe Masq is a bit scary with Possession on the board?
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Morgrim7

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2012, 03:02:37 am »
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I see Village and Goons...
With Apprentice to help and Masq for trashing and some card draw? Oh, man.

Although maybe Masq is a bit scary with Possession on the board?
I would probably buy one early for some trashing and Apprentice it if they ever try to go for it. Because honestly, Possession against a Goons engine?
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

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Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

eHalcyon

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2012, 03:05:00 am »
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I see Village and Goons...
With Apprentice to help and Masq for trashing and some card draw? Oh, man.

Although maybe Masq is a bit scary with Possession on the board?
I would probably buy one early for some trashing and Apprentice it if they ever try to go for it. Because honestly, Possession against a Goons engine?

Hm, indeed. :P
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Morgrim7

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2012, 03:07:18 am »
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Back to the origional topic; what was game two?
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Schneau

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2012, 09:17:44 am »
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Plus it's 3-player, so Masq. with Possession isn't as big of a deal, since you could only pass the best cards to your other opponent.
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Polk5440

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2012, 09:23:40 am »
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Back to the original topic; what was game two?

Okay, here it is:

Game 2: Moat, Pearl Diver, Duchess, Tunnel, Fishing Village, Loan, Farming Village, Adventurer, Canal, King's Court

How would you play this?
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brokoli

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2012, 09:52:11 am »
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Back to the original topic; what was game two?

Okay, here it is:

Game 2: Moat, Pearl Diver, Duchess, Tunnel, Fishing Village, Loan, Farming Village, Adventurer, Canal, King's Court

How would you play this?

Not much to do... Maybe something with Loan-Tunnel-Adventurer ?
In all cases, it's difficult to empty a pile (the only one I see is duchess, but it means I have to piledrive on duchies, which is a very bad idea if I want canals and provinces).
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Morgrim7

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2012, 07:40:44 pm »
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I'd probably go with Adventurer/Tunnel/Loan and instead of Duchies go for Canal because with all that Gold you are unlikely to have 5.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 03:37:48 am »
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Just a tip I got before: Could you edit the original post to include the description for Canal?
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DStu

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 05:36:02 am »
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Game 2: Moat, Pearl Diver, Duchess, Tunnel, Fishing Village, Loan, Farming Village, Adventurer, Canal, King's Court
I'm also Tunnel/Loan/Adventurer. Maybe even double Loan here (after the first Tunnel), you don't need to buy money, Loan over Tunnel will bring you the Golds. So I think buy Loan->Tunnel->Loan->[$5->Tunnel,$6->Adventurer/Canal,$8 Province].

So is there the risk of a three pile? In 3 player maybe. Tunnel will go down, Gold maybe. The third pile? Canal itself? If you have many, you don't wan't to run it down, but if you have less, maybe you take the last two (at least over Duchies) to deny points to the opponents?
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Polk5440

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2012, 08:13:31 am »
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Just a tip I got before: Could you edit the original post to include the description for Canal?

It's at the end of the first post on this thread.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 09:39:18 am »
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I see Village and Goons...
With Apprentice to help and Masq for trashing and some card draw? Oh, man.

Although maybe Masq is a bit scary with Possession on the board?
I would probably buy one early for some trashing and Apprentice it if they ever try to go for it. Because honestly, Possession against a Goons engine?

Hm, indeed. :P

Plus it's 3-player, so Masq. with Possession isn't as big of a deal, since you could only pass the best cards to your other opponent.

My thoughts exactly going in.

Apprentice is a bit "scary" if possessed too because the possessing player can usually play your deck better than you (though not necessarily with lots of Goons).
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Morgrim7

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 07:40:04 pm »
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I see Village and Goons...
With Apprentice to help and Masq for trashing and some card draw? Oh, man.

Although maybe Masq is a bit scary with Possession on the board?
I would probably buy one early for some trashing and Apprentice it if they ever try to go for it. Because honestly, Possession against a Goons engine?

Hm, indeed. :P

Plus it's 3-player, so Masq. with Possession isn't as big of a deal, since you could only pass the best cards to your other opponent.

My thoughts exactly going in.

Apprentice is a bit "scary" if possessed too because the possessing player can usually play your deck better than you (though not necessarily with lots of Goons).
Not too worried, you get the VP chips if they play your Goons, so they will pretty much have some treasure and Villages.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
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Polk5440

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012, 09:17:16 pm »
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How game 1 went.

Quote
Game 1: Vineyard, Herbalist, Fortune Teller, Develop, Village, Masquerade, Apprentice, Goons, Possession, Canal (with Platinum and Colony, too)

Bella Cullen went first, I went second, pirate ship economist (PSE) went third. Early, we did see Village-Goons as being most important. Bella opened Village-Masquerade, I opened Silver-Masquerade, and PSE, trying to be clever from the third seat, opened Develop-Masquerade. Bella and I pretty much went directly for Village-Goons. PSE tried to use Develop to beat us to the punch; he did have one successful Develop turn early, turning a Potion into an Apprentice and a Silver.

I was able to buy and play a Goons first, playing $6, and buying two Villages and getting +2VP. I was paring my deck down with two Masquerades (I never really got a good chance at picking up an Apprentice early, so I felt like 2 Masques would do the job), so I felt like it was only a matter of time before I double Goons-ed a few times. Develop did not quite pay off for the PSE; he was almost shut out of Villages, getting only 1, and Bella and I split the rest, with me winning the split (Village pile out). I also was doing well with number of Goons bought and paring my deck down, so I felt like I was in a very good position. Also, at this point, my deck was pretty consistently hitting $6 and $7, but for some infuriating reason, even with 5 Villages, they refused to nestle near my Goons when I shuffled. Because of this I kept buying Goons over Gold so my deck never really got to $8. PSE bought 2 Goons, but then started buying Gold over Goons. He top decked two Silvers with Develop and was able to Apprentice two Silvers midgame in order to land a couple of Provinces. Bella was supplementing her Village-Masquerade-Goons-lite strategy with money. Even so, I was in the lead at the midpoint of the game even though PSE and Bella were able to pick up 3 Provinces between them. Also, with all three of us buying Goons, the Goons pile ran out about this time (making Canal cheap).

I realized my deck was not hitting $8, and I had to make a decision on whether to correct that or go for piles and hope to end the game in the lead. The Masquerade pile was down to 5 (Bella had also bought a second Masquerade), so that was the only realistic option. I decided against that because Bella and PSE were starting to buy too many Provinces and I felt it would have taken too long, and I didn’t have that big of a lead. In addition, my deck was thick enough I thought it would take too long to increase its buying power to $8 or greater. Instead, I decided I would try to get a Possession to take advantage of PSE’s buying power in his deck, so I bought a Potion. In addition, I would buy Canals cheap when I didn’t have a better buy in order to hedge against my opponents running Provinces on me too soon. Sadly, on the next two shuffles through my deck, I had to settle for Vineyards when I drew my Potion even though my deck had been so reliable on getting to $7. I also picked up an Apprentice around this time, but I never got an opportunity to play it.

At this point in the game, Canal became a surprisingly attractive target for purchase after a Goons play. Buying 2 Canals and getting +2VP as well was kind of hard to resist for all three of us when we had the chance.

Even with my change in tactic (and failing to land a Province or Possession), and Bella hitting double Goons a couple of times during the game (but deciding to clog her deck too early with Coppers), I felt like I was in good shape. I finally drew Villages and Goons together. My hand was 3 Villages and 2 Goons. Then disaster struck. Bella played Village-Village-Masquerade-Masquerade-Goons. I passed PSE his second and desperately needed Village and a Silver that was passed to me. I discarded down to Village-Goons-Goons. I did get a double Goons turn, but a couple of turns later that Village pass came back to bite me.

PSE played Apprentice, trashing his own Province! He drew 8 cards, resulting in the only two Villages in his deck ending up in his hand. Playing double Village, Goons, Masquerade, Goons, and a lot of Gold, he purchased 2 Provinces and a Canal (getting +6VP). On my turn I decided I was still ahead but things were getting dangerous, so I went to try to end it on Canals. I had a bad draw and left one Canal in the pile, which PSE promptly bought ending the game (Canals empty – became 2 VP each). There were 4 Provinces left in the supply.

The final score was 48-42-30; the PSE had overtaken me! My internal point counter was biased by all the shiny VP tokens on my mat!

This board looked really bad for Canal when we started to play it, but as we kept playing, even though Canal was only briefly in the sweet spot of being $3 and possibly worth 4VP, it added a lot of fun to the middle and endgame that we didn’t see coming. The fact that it was $3, even when we knew it was probably going to be worth only 2VP, made it a very attractive target to buy two of when we had Goons in play and were trying to pick up some extra VP. Afterward, we concluded that Canal was the better alt VP on this board (over Vineyards).
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Polk5440

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012, 09:18:36 pm »
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How game #2 went:

Quote
Game 2: Moat, Pearl Diver, Duchess, Tunnel, Fishing Village, Loan, Farming Village, Adventurer, Canal, King's Court

I went first, PSE second, Bella Cullen third. For some reason I thought I would not do the obvious thing, so I opened Fishing Village-Loan and then on turns 3 and 4 bought 2 more Fishing Villages. The idea was to get an early $6 and an early Adventurer before grabbing Tunnels and a second Loan, but all it got me was $5 consistently, which was… horrible. I don’t know why I thought an early Adventurer would be a good idea anyway. Especially since there are no extra Buys, so getting behind early is pretty bad on this Kingdom.

Anyway, PSE and Bella Cullen bought various combinations of Tunnels and Farming Villages with one Loan. PSE and I picked up quite a few Tunnels (me later than he). Bella stuck to one or two Tunnels and also bought a Fishing Village, and a couple of Silvers, I think. The Tunnel pile ran out fairly quickly.

Middle game we all got at least one Adventurer. For the greening stage (which came really quickly), it was mostly Provinces and Canals. We were drawing at least $6 almost every turn and the game was certainly ending on Provinces making Canals 4VP.

Game ended on Provinces with PSE winning, Bella second, me third (54-43-31).

This was a fun game where Canal simply served as a better late-game alternative to Duchy when a player had $6 or $7.
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Polk5440

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2012, 09:19:11 pm »
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Anyone else play test Canal?
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Morgrim7

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2012, 04:53:49 am »
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I dunno about FV, I think Silver might have been better.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
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Polk5440

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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2012, 09:14:30 am »
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Yeah, I don't think I'd try Fishing Villages on this kingdom again.
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Re: Playtesting: Canal (Challenge #3)
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2012, 11:06:46 am »
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Personally, I went with Farming Villages and Loans.  The thought was that this gives two early shots at flipping over Tunnels to gain some early Gold.  Later in the game, I picked up an Adventurer, but I'm not sure how much that helped given how dense my deck was with Gold.
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