Topic: My Challenge #4 card: Town Hall (Oryx) (Read 5772 times)

Archetype · « **on:** July 20, 2012, 11:42:21 am »

I thought my card was pretty original, and I am sad that many people dismissed it because of the supposed "gimmick" of drawing from the bottom of the deck.

Original:
Town Hall
Cost: 5
Draw 3 cards from the bottom of your deck. You may put a card on top of your deck.

Updated Version:
Town Hall
cost:3
Draw 3 cards from the bottom of your deck. Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

This card was inspired by Courtyard. I wanted to make a Courtyard that you can set up a good hand next turn, but that would be impossible if it kept drawing from the top of the deck.

Any critics?

Grujah · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2012, 11:45:45 am »

What do you do with the rest? Put back or discard?

brokoli · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2012, 11:47:24 am »

It is an interesting idea. But I think it would be too weak at $5 (and I know it can't work at $4 because it is strictly better than smithy).
Maybe add a +buy ?

jonts26 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2012, 11:55:37 am »

My biggest problem with it was just, it's a stronger courtyard. I wanted to vote for more original mechanics.

That isn't to say it's a bad card. I'm sure it would make for a couple interesting engines, but that wasn't quite enough for me.

Drab Emordnilap · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:02:03 pm »

Quote from: brokoli on July 20, 2012, 11:47:24 am

It is an interesting idea. But I think it would be too weak at $5 (and I know it can't work at $4 because it is strictly better than smithy).
Maybe add a +buy ?

I don't think this is a strictly better Smithy any more than Courtyard is a strictly better Smithy.

Archetype · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:09:01 pm »

Maybe it should cost 4, but with a small on-gain penalty because it isn't always better than Smithy, if you used Cartographer to set up a good hand, you wouldn't necessarily want to draw from the bottom

@Grujah: Usually when you draw cards they go to your hand...

@brokoli: a +Buy could work, but it doesn't really help the card any since any excess Treasures would usually be placed on top.

@jonts26: Yeah, the competition was rough and contained much more original ideas than mine, but I guess that's what you get when you make up a card in 2 minutes

@Drab Emordnilap: Maybe it should cost 4, but with a small on-gain penalty because it isn't always better than Smithy, if you used Cartographer to set up a good hand, you wouldn't necessarily want to draw from the bottom

Thanks for the comments!

rinkworks · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:15:09 pm »

I'd be inclined to drop the price all the way to $3. It's really not better than Courtyard in singles, only in multiples. And playing multiples needs Village assistance, and is still probably inferior in many situations to Village/Smithy, so I don't see the problem with a $3 price point.

It IS really interesting that it has the potential to piece together your next turn. But I think this would be hard enough in practice to pull off (besides needing Villages, you also need to have a thick enough deck that your bottom drawing doesn't cannibalize your top-decking, and the sequence needs to fire at just the right point within the shuffle, too) that it can be justified at an accessible price.

Archetype · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:24:14 pm »

@rinkworks: This card is friendlier to thicker decks, but I think it should cost at least 4 because of the "you may" part of the card.

rinkworks · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:29:26 pm »

Quote from: Archetype on July 20, 2012, 12:24:14 pm

@rinkworks: This card is friendlier to thicker decks, but I think it should cost at least 4 because of the "you may" part of the card.

Oh! I totally spaced on that. Now I understand the "strictly better than Smithy" criticism. Yeah, I guess it does need to cost $5, as written. But I like the idea of nerfing it rather than keeping the cost that high. For it to work better for its intended purpose, it probably needs to be more accessible.

Archetype · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:39:13 pm »

@rinkworks: Your probably right. To mass 5 of these in one hand to correctly set up your next hand isn't going to happen if they cost 5.

Drab Emordnilap · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:43:17 pm »

I also missed that putting a card on top was optional; I'd like the card better if it was mandatory also, especially at $3.

Archetype · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:45:28 pm »

Seems like a lot of people want it at 3, so I'll change it.

*Updated

qmech · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:45:42 pm »

I quite like it at $3 with the compulsory return.

Perhaps you could edit an explanation of what changed into the OP to make reading this thread less confusing?

Archetype · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:33:20 pm »

*Fixed

brokoli · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:33:52 pm »

Eh… courtyard is not a strictly better smithy !
This town hall says "you may", so you may draw three cards and not put them back… so it is a strictly better smithy (well, there is the case of cartographer, but it's pretty uncommon).
So I think it's way too strong at 3$, but after all can work at 4$

Edit : Forget what I said, I misread…

NoMoreFun · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2012, 07:58:19 pm »

I really liked this card, and think using the bottom of the deck is very far from a gimmick.

The idea behind this card would shine more as a non terminal though. Something like +1 action, 2 cards from the bottom, place one on top, or 3 from the bottom, one on top, one on the bottom.

zporiri · « **Reply #16 on:** August 03, 2012, 07:56:21 pm »

Unless you know what the cards are at the top of your deck by having previously played a card like cartographer, it doesn't matter whether you draw from the top of your deck of the bottom, and so this card is basically the same exact thing as courtyard.

And to the person who said this card is straight up better than smithy, I assume you also think that courtyard is straight up better than smithy as well, and it costs $2 less. (I think they each have their own different uses, sometimes smithy works better for what you are trying to do, sometimes courtyard is better).

eHalcyon · « **Reply #17 on:** August 03, 2012, 08:03:41 pm »

Quote from: zporiri on August 03, 2012, 07:56:21 pm

Unless you know what the cards are at the top of your deck by having previously played a card like cartographer, it doesn't matter whether you draw from the top of your deck of the bottom, and so this card is basically the same exact thing as courtyard.

And to the person who said this card is straight up better than smithy, I assume you also think that courtyard is straight up better than smithy as well, and it costs $2 less. (I think they each have their own different uses, sometimes smithy works better for what you are trying to do, sometimes courtyard is better).

This stacks differently than Courtyard. If you KC-Courtyard, you see 7 cards and topdeck 1. If you KC-Town Hall, you see 9 cards and topdeck 3.

And of course there is different interaction of each with deck inspection and Pearl Diver...

jonts26 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 03, 2012, 08:05:00 pm »

The original had an option to return a card, not forced like courtyard. So that version would be better than smithy (and courtyard, too)

Archetype · « **Reply #19 on:** August 03, 2012, 08:12:59 pm »

It's also a soft counter to top-deck disruptions like Rabble/Sea Hag by not drawing from the top.

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Author Topic: My Challenge #4 card: Town Hall (Oryx) (Read 5772 times)