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Author Topic: Can you beat Scout on this board?  (Read 2728 times)

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dghunter79

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Can you beat Scout on this board?
« on: July 18, 2012, 06:00:05 pm »
+3

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120713-195219-c6ef8676.html
Cards in supply: Forge, Great Hall, Nomad Camp, Potion, Scout, Scrying Pool, Silk Road, Trade Route, Treasure Map, Vineyard, and Witch

Sometimes, Scout can be a decent addition to your deck.  But usually, when you buy one, you're thinking "hope this works." Hope that I draw my Scout with my Crossroads in hand and a lot of green cards on my deck but not in my hand already.  At best, it's a fun trick to pull off. 

This board was the first I've seen in which, if you didn't buy multiple Scouts, you were pretty likely to lose.  I've never seen Scout-play this dominant.

I didn't play well at all here; my opponent played much better.  Luckily, I fell backwards into a fun engine. 

Basically, I saw Scrying Pool, with Trade Route and Forge to trash, and made a pair of hair-trigger purchases: I opened Trade Route/Potion.  When my opponent opened Nomad Camp/Witch, I realized I hadn't read the board well at all.  There were no plus actions.  He'd be cursing me faster than I could trash.  And before I could get back into shape he'd have gobbled up all the Great Halls and Silk Roads.  The game was over already.

But the deck that grew around this mistake was pretty cool.  Scrying Pool combines alright with Great Hall.  The Trade Route mat accumulated plenty of tokens, so that was nice.  But Scout was what really held everything together. 

Scout allowed me to clog my deck with Silk Roads and Vineyards, and still consistently draw huge hands.  I'd vacuum out the green cards, hopefully pulling a few Great Halls for added draw.  Then I'd reorder the cards so my Scrying Pool could discard Copper, and grab the actions Scout had left on the deck.  Turn after turn I was drawing my deck, playing my single Trade Route for five coin, trashing the Curses from my opponent's Witch, and buying two VP cards, or Vineyards/Actions.  It was mojo synergy.

Anyway, I know I didn't play great, so I'm not sure if I found the best strategy.  Does anything beat Scout on this board?  Here's why I don't think so.

-Provinces will, I think, lose to Trade Route/Silk Roads/Great Halls, no matter how the Province player tries to mix it up with Witches, Trade Routes, and money.  There's too much Silk Road assistance to go for Provinces.
 
-If both players go for Trade Route/Silk Roads/Great Halls, the player who buys a Potion will win.  Once the Silk Roads are gone, those Vineyards will be nicer than Estates.

-If both players go Trade Route/Silk Roads/Great Halls/Vineyards, and they both buy a Potion, then the player who builds around Scrying Pools will beat the player who only buys a Potion late, or who rushes Vineyards early.  The Scrying Pool player might lose some opportunity at Silk Roads VP early, but the VP the extra actions add to the Vineyards will make up for it, and it's a useful card.

-If both players go for Scrying Pools, then the player who adds a generous helping of Scouts will outdraw by a mile the player who ignores them.

Obviously, there's a lot of room for errors in that chain of assumptions.  But if the winning strategy doesn't include Scout, what is it?

...

Here that?  It's silence.  Somewhere out there, a scout is scouting.  There's no need to thank him.  He doesn't do it for the glory.  He just likes to be around trees.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 07:11:24 am by dghunter79 »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Can you beat Scout on this board?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2012, 08:36:42 pm »
+1

Yes, yes I can.

Witch, probably into silk road, should really crush scout-based nonsense.

dghunter79

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Re: Can you beat Scout on this board?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2012, 11:09:27 pm »
+1

Yes, yes I can.

Witch, probably into silk road, should really crush scout-based nonsense.

Maybe!  For the record, my opponent bought a Witch on the opening shuffle, and then transitioned into Silk Roads, like you recommend.  He didn't get to play his Witch till turn 5, and he passed up chances to buy a second Witch on the second shuffle, in favor of getting a head start on the VP rush.  So he could have handed out more Curses than he did.

But this go-round, team Scout-based-nonsense never bought a Witch, put 5 of 5 Curses in the trash, and won by 20 points.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 06:46:24 am by dghunter79 »
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chwhite

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Re: Can you beat Scout on this board?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2012, 03:18:04 pm »
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Scrying Pool AND Vineyard AND an Action-Victory card (Great Hall in this case) AND a trasher that likes Victory cards (Trade Route) is basically Scout's dream scenario.

Take away any single one of those four cards, and Witch romps as usual.  But with all that support, yeah, I absolutely would expect Scout-based nonsense to carry the day here.
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Jfrisch

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Re: Can you beat Scout on this board?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 01:49:02 am »
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so, I guess this leads to the question...
if scout is better than witch does scout need to be nerfed?
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tlloyd

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Re: Can you beat Scout on this board?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 02:45:59 am »
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Scrying Pool AND Vineyard AND an Action-Victory card (Great Hall in this case) AND a trasher that likes Victory cards (Trade Route) is basically Scout's dream scenario.

Take away any single one of those four cards, and Witch romps as usual.  But with all that support, yeah, I absolutely would expect Scout-based nonsense to carry the day here.

For me the interesting question is how well the same strategy holds up without Scout. Because if Scout is a non-essential element of its own dream scenario, well...
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dghunter79

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Re: Can you beat Scout on this board?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2012, 06:06:46 pm »
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For me the interesting question is how well the same strategy holds up without Scout. Because if Scout is a non-essential element of its own dream scenario, well...

I think there's a difference of magnitude between Silk Road/Great Hall/Scrying Pool/Vineyards/Trade Route and the same deck filled with Scouts. 

With Scout, you can draw your deck with some consistency.  With only Scrying Pool and Great Halls for draw, I think you're grinding through a clogged deck.  And those Scout-enabled extra plays of Trade Route are going to compound greatly.

Scout does heroic work, here.  It is the fantasy Scout-scenario -- but here it is, occurring in nature.
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