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Author Topic: is bureaucrat underestimate?  (Read 11240 times)

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Geronimoo

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Re: is bureaucrat underestimate?
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2011, 08:37:36 am »
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Actually, BM - Courtyard is probably better than BM - Envoy.

This bot is on par with the BM - Envoy, but since the simulator doesn't put cards back optimally, Courtyard is actually better!!! (using a random opening, Envoy still beats it easily in a forced $4/$3 opening)
Code: [Select]
<player name="BM - Courtyard">
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Gold"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Silver">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Silver"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Courtyard">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Courtyard"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
   <buy name="Courtyard">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Courtyard"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
</player>
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DStu

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Re: is bureaucrat underestimate?
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2011, 08:52:10 am »
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Quote
This bot is on par with the BM - Envoy, but since the simulator doesn't put cards back optimally, Courtyard is actually better!!! (using a random opening, Envoy still beats it easily in a forced $4/$3 opening)

My feeling was that it is quite clever in putting cards back. As far as I have reduced the rules (buy highest card and put back whatever allows you to still buy highest card) you don't want to change these very often, perhaps pass on a duchy for estate in endgame when its safe and can lay back a gold for next turn. But overall I think that is a very good heurisitic at least for BigMoney

PS:
Quote
using a random opening, Envoy still beats it easily in a forced $4/$3 opening
But from this it also follows that Courtyard beats Envoy on 5/2-opening.
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Deadlock39

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Re: is bureaucrat underestimate?
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2011, 08:56:26 am »
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I could be wrong, but I played around with BM-Courtyard once, and I think 2 Courtyards gave the best results.  This does however bring up questions about optimal play because the simulator always puts back the highest treasure that preserves the current turns buy, but if you have the opportunity to put your other Courtyard back, that is frequently the better move (especially if you are returning a copper instead).

Edit: I checked it with the single Courtyard strategy, and it does appear to edge itself out (about 46.5% to 45%) if you add a second Courtyard.  I think it could do slightly better if it prioritized putting Courtyard back, at least over Copper and Silver.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 09:01:08 am by Deadlock39 »
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guided

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Re: is bureaucrat underestimate?
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2011, 12:11:25 pm »
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Is the Envoy/Smithy player passing cards to Masquerade intelligently?

I guess I can believe those results but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some error in the AI.
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chwhite

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Re: is bureaucrat underestimate?
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2011, 02:00:56 pm »
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I'd expect Masquerade to be the single best card in the game for a One Action + BMU strategy.  Adding a second Masquerade might improve the numbers as well, though I'm not as sure as I once was. 

Envoy might also be close, but I hate playing Envoy strategies.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: is bureaucrat underestimate?
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2011, 02:06:38 pm »
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I'd expect Masquerade to be the single best card in the game for a One Action + BMU strategy.  Adding a second Masquerade might improve the numbers as well, though I'm not as sure as I once was. 

Envoy might also be close, but I hate playing Envoy strategies.

Not even close. Ambassador, as well as the premier curse-givers outperform pretty drastically. So does Wharf, as well as a couple others.

chwhite

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Re: is bureaucrat underestimate?
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2011, 02:08:26 pm »
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I'd expect Masquerade to be the single best card in the game for a One Action + BMU strategy.  Adding a second Masquerade might improve the numbers as well, though I'm not as sure as I once was. 

Envoy might also be close, but I hate playing Envoy strategies.

Not even close. Ambassador, as well as the premier curse-givers outperform pretty drastically. So does Wharf, as well as a couple others.

Oh, duh.  Yeah, the top-tier attacks are in fact better.  I can believe Wharf, but if you take away the 5/2 opening it's probably close.
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Octo

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Re: is bureaucrat underestimate?
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2011, 08:33:09 am »
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One of the dangers with masquerade (one of my favourite cards btw) is in the late game when you start risking having to pass a good card, and so in holding back on the masq you're losing the +2 cards and hold a dead card too. I think this card also plays a little differently if everyone is getting it, not just yourself - often I'm the only one, and it performs amazingly, but if everyone has a go it's just not the same.

Regarding bureaucrat, friend of mine trounced me with this recently, or at least he attributed it to that. I was sceptical, hence the reason for me reading this thread. Personally my favourite use for this card is as an attack to put on the table with new players because it isn't too much of a ball-buster like Witch or something which can put people off sometimes. Bureaucrat has more strength in a game with mixed VP cards though (Great Halls, Nobles etc) which I don't think has been mentioned yet.

I think I'm going to give it a go a bit more.

(Though whoever above said 2xCourtyard BMU - that sounds awesome, need to try that first!)
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