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Author Topic: My VP from Rinkworks  (Read 3601 times)

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Grujah

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My VP from Rinkworks
« on: July 16, 2012, 01:55:53 pm »
0

I've got 0 points  :'(
I though it was cute:

$6 - Victory
3 VP
--
When you gain this, gain a Victory card costing less than this.

Maybe better at 7?  ;D
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popsofctown

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Re: My VP from Rinkworks
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2012, 02:20:01 pm »
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To be honest, I'm so obsessed with alt-vp strategies that I only gave approval votes to full-on alt-vp cards.  I saw nothing wrong with your cute bloat-a-Province.
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rinkworks

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Re: My VP from Rinkworks
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2012, 02:27:51 pm »
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I think there's nothing wrong with the "When you gain this" clause, so much as that it doesn't allow for much strategizing.  For most of the usual buy decisions you're likely to encounter, it's an easy decision:

* If you have $8, buying a Province is a no-brainer, because you get 6 VP, which would be the same number as your card and a Duchy (which is what you're going to get from this card 99% of the time).

* If you have $6 or $7 and you're interested in having a Duchy, you buy this card and gain a Duchy.  It clogs up your deck a little more than if you just bought the Duchy outright, but if you're in the part of the game where you're buying Duchies, you don't care.  Because either it's so close to the end of game that you won't suffer from the deck clog anyway, or you're rushing Duchies, in which case you still don't care about deck clog, and buying your card drains the Duchies just as fast but with more points.

* If you have $6 or $7 and you don't want a Duchy in your deck, you don't want this card in your deck either.

Off-hand, I'm not sure how to balance the numbers out so as to provide better strategic possibilities, but one idea that comes to mind is to just make your card worth only 1 VP.  A card worth just 1 VP but costing $6 is an attractive target for trash-for-benefit cards.  Additionally, the lesser point value might make you sometimes prefer Duchy over your card + Duchy when you have $6 or $7.  Particularly in rush strategies:  if you're rushing Duchies and WANT to clog your deck at 3 VP per card, you don't mind taking your card + Duchy when possible.  But if your card is only worth 1 VP, maybe you'd still rather just buy a Duchy.

Like I say, I don't know if this completely fixes the idea.  It's just a top-of-my-head thought.  But I do think the idea itself is probably good in some form or other.  Running this contest has really helped me realize anew how very small, very subtle balance tweaks can make or break a card.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 02:30:30 pm by rinkworks »
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Qvist

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Re: My VP from Rinkworks
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2012, 02:38:32 pm »
0

Yeah, it was too similar to my entry IMO.

Borderland
$7 - Victory
2 VP
--
When you gain this, gain a card costing less than this.

So first: Too similar entries isn't good for getting more votes. So they compared mine to yours.
And second: And I think, your card seems too restrictive compared to mine (gaining only victory cards).

Tables

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Re: My VP from Rinkworks
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2012, 02:44:50 pm »
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In my fan set, I once had a card that was $6, 2 VPs, when you gain it gain a Duchy. Rinkworks nailed the problems with it on the head. There's a little strategy regarding T4B, but mostly, it's just 'I want Duchy and have $6, I'll get a Palace instead' (Palace was obviously it's name)
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Grujah

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Re: My VP from Rinkworks
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2012, 03:11:54 pm »
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How about this:

Fields
$5 Victory
2VP
---
When you buy this, gain a Fields

I really want 2 for 1 VPs.
Its easy to pile it out, also better than duchy but more clutter.
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rinkworks

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Re: My VP from Rinkworks
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2012, 03:20:28 pm »
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That could work.  The quick-piling might be a great enabler for other alt-VP strategies, too.  Try it out!
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One Armed Man

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Re: My VP from Rinkworks
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2012, 03:24:47 pm »
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And since buying a Fields costs 5, it can be really good for Apprentice, Bishop, Salvager, Forge, and "Upgrade" effects. There has always been some hesitency for a quickly depleting pile, but that concern might be for the early game.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: My VP from Rinkworks
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2012, 03:39:36 pm »
0

I won?!?!

I was concerned that it was too boring - but I wanted to enter something because of my scholars submission. (Rejected!)

I started with the general idea that we have cards that focus on # of actions (vineyards), # of victory cards (silk road), but there isn't (to date?) anything that gives VP for treasure - and I wanted do something more interesting than "1 VP for X coins".   Forcing a distribution of coppers, silvers and golds creates some interesting interactions and decisions.  If you know that you already bought 3 or 4 silvers, you can leave the door open for more points by buying gold over duchy when you would ordinarily buy duchy. It also punishes people who over trashed coppers in pursuit of an engine. 

To those thinking that it's a true province alternative - buying this whole stack while its worth 6 will take 20 turns without +buys.  That's not exactly trivial... and it requires you to intentionally purchase silvers.  Getting it over 7 starts to be really hard - because now you have to buy coppers!

My view was that it was pretty much a duchy equivalent most of the time.  I would wager if it magically appeared in my deck at the end of a normal game, it would be worth 2, sometimes 3, rarely 4 or more.  I figured that playing with more duchies than normal would be interesting, and would create more opportunities for people who are behind on provinces to catch up.
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I support funsockets.... taking as much time as they need to get it right.
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