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Author Topic: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards  (Read 66262 times)

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Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2012, 05:48:24 pm »
0

Should be ranked worse: Pirate Ship (worse than Spy and Talisman), Feast (worse than Navigator, at least), Walled Village (awful), Noble Brigand (just a few spots)

Should be ranked better: Spy and Treasure Map (but not much better, really they are close to where they belong), Nomad Camp (it's better than Walled Village, just absurd to say otherwise)
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ftl

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2012, 06:00:28 pm »
+3

Walled Village can't really be much lower, because, well, it's still a village; "+1 cards +2 actions" is pretty necessary for an engine whether it's priced at 3 or 4. The bonus WV provides is pretty mediocre, but even without the bonus, it's still useful. I mostly like this list, and the places where my own list deviates from it I think this one is more right than mine...
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ehunt

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2012, 06:43:49 pm »
+1

i post this every 3 months on the dominion strategy forum, but walled village + ambassador is a pretty solid opening, one of the few village openings that's worth it.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2012, 07:19:53 pm »
0

i post this every 3 months on the dominion strategy forum, but walled village + ambassador is a pretty solid opening, one of the few village openings that's worth it.
Not enough, I still wasn't aware.


Walled village is sooo good on paper.  I think we all are using it wrong. 
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AJD

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2012, 07:52:33 pm »
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Nomad Camp (it's better than Walled Village, just absurd to say otherwise)

How can Nomad Camp be better than Walled Village if Village is better than Woodcutter?
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2012, 10:18:32 pm »
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I think Nomad Camp is way overrated.
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iangoth

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2012, 10:37:13 pm »
+1

A lot of it comes down to perception rather than objective strength. People see walled village and think, "This card sucks! It's hardly better than a regular village!" But hey, you're probably going to buy most of your villages with $4, anyway. When you need extra actions for your engine, you're not thinking, "Aww man, all I've got is walled village. I guess I better go for big money + bureaucrat instead." when you've got $4 and a choice between village and walled village, you don't say to yourself, "I better take vanilla village. It's just so much better than walled village!"

Nomad camp get's a bit of the opposite effect. People think, "This on-gain effect is really neat! I can use this to get a 4/5 opening, and I can buy these late to shore up my economy as I green!" These are some cute and sometimes useful abilities, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a woodcutter at heart, and 90% of what it really does is provide a +buy when there's nothing better around. Which isn't all that bad, but you're way more likely to want a walled village.
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Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2012, 11:35:53 pm »
0

Nomad Camp (it's better than Walled Village, just absurd to say otherwise)

How can Nomad Camp be better than Walled Village if Village is better than Woodcutter?

Because Nomad Camp's boost over Village is pretty cool, whereas Walled Village's boost over Village is useless.

Yeah, I absolutely stand by this. Walled Village to me is just a slightly more expensive Village. What it does just isn't useful, because the whole point of buying villages is to play Action chains. Walled Village sticks around if you happen to draw it without your Actions, but that's really not that great.

Nomad Camp's top-deck ability isn't amazing, but it can be useful--way more useful than Walled Village's thing.
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iangoth

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2012, 11:41:05 pm »
0

I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.
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Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2012, 11:44:55 pm »
0

I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.

Well, I'm more a money guy then an engine guy, so it might be personal preference.
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Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2012, 11:45:55 pm »
0

I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.

You certainly wouldn't on Turns 1, and 2, where Nomad Camp is often a good play; not all the time, but sometimes. Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.
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iangoth

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2012, 11:51:21 pm »
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True enough
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Titandrake

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2012, 11:52:34 pm »
0

I'm with ehunt that walled village-ambassador is a really cool/useful opening.

But besides using it to guarantee double Amb is never drawn dead, it's a Village. The top deck effect is kinda useful? It's more of a small consistency bonus than anything else. Although it's hard to tell how much it helps, I'm pretty sure it doesn't help that much.

Nomad Camp to get $5 on turn 2 never quite works for me. I mostly use it to pick up a +Buy if there isn't much better. I'd still put Walled Village over Nomad Camp, I just like the card more.
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Tables

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2012, 12:04:38 am »
0

Nomad Camp's top decking is pretty powerful. It's good early. It's probably the best way to use a $4 in many late game slogs. Mid game it's a little less good, but like a Wizard, it lets your +buy card(s) arrive precisely when you mean it to.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2012, 12:09:06 am »
0

In looking at my rankings, I put Nomad Camp way better than Walled Village. I had Nomad Camp at #30 and Walled Village at #38.

I think Nomad Camp just matches my style of play a lot better than Walled Village, perhaps. It's much better with alt-VP strategies and such. I am probably overrating, yeah. Still, I like its benefit just so much more than Walled Village's. Nomad Camp is a Woodcutter with a lot more teeth, because you can play for when it comes up (like, next turn). Walled Village is essentially the same thing as Village, just $1 more expensive.

My bottom 5 cards, btw, were: Scout, Thief, Coppersmith, Pirate Ship, Feast. I think I stand by all those as worse than Talisman and Spy, and I loathe Talisman and Spy. And how did Navigator lose to Feast? That's nonsense.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 01:37:08 pm by Robz888 »
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iangoth

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2012, 02:01:44 am »
0

Funny, looking back at my rankings, I actually put nomad camp over walled village, too.
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Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2012, 02:09:37 am »
0

Looking over my rankings, I had all the same cards at #30 and below as this list. So that's nice.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2012, 03:25:08 am »
0

I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.

You certainly wouldn't on Turns 1, and 2, where Nomad Camp is often a good play; not all the time, but sometimes. Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.

Nomad Camp is so rarely the right play early too. Unless you're going for massing $2 cards or Copper, you don't have anything to do with the +buy anyway.
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O

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2012, 03:36:48 am »
0

Walled village is like 90% as good as farming village. It's the worst 4$ village, but really its not that bad and certainly situationally better. It's ranked closed to appropiately, mebbe 1-2 spots too low but certainly not too high.

WV < FV = WV < MV
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Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2012, 03:37:48 am »
0

I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.

You certainly wouldn't on Turns 1, and 2, where Nomad Camp is often a good play; not all the time, but sometimes. Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.

Nomad Camp is so rarely the right play early too. Unless you're going for massing $2 cards or Copper, you don't have anything to do with the +buy anyway.

Well, usually when you buy it Turn 1, it's because you hope to buy a critical $5 before the first reshuffle. There are quite a few $5s--Witch, Mountebank, IGG, Hunting Party, to name a few--where this is usually worth it.
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O

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2012, 03:42:50 am »
0

Throw in modified gardens/silk roads rushes, duke games, fools gold (as in article), certain 2$/3$ combos (say, NC/Lookout/Lighthouse as a counter to some attack), and late-game buys.

I mean, I find it has a real effect on the late game more frequently than say, Farmland, which while managing to be a completely different card serves a somewhat similar effect.
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brokoli

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2012, 04:18:28 am »
0

And how did Navigator beat Feast? That's nonsense.
Absolutely not. I really don't understand why navigator is so high, it seems as bad as chancellor for me… And I think I even buy chancellor more often. There are a lot of more interesting terminal actions-silver for 4$ : Bridge, monument, militia, curpurse, …
On the other side, feast is only a one shot so it doesn't conflict with these actions, and is pretty good for engines which doesn't really want silvers (minion…).
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Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2012, 04:56:11 am »
0

And how did Navigator beat Feast? That's nonsense.
Absolutely not. I really don't understand why navigator is so high, it seems as bad as chancellor for me… And I think I even buy chancellor more often. There are a lot of more interesting terminal actions-silver for 4$ : Bridge, monument, militia, curpurse, …
On the other side, feast is only a one shot so it doesn't conflict with these actions, and is pretty good for engines which doesn't really want silvers (minion…).

Navigator is not very good, I agree. It's hard to justify as your terminal. But Feast is... nothing. Feast is absolutely nothing. It's a card that trashes itself to give you 1 copy of a card you probably could have bought anyway if you'd just gotten Silver instead of Feast, except you use Silver multiple times and Feast only once. Yeah, occasionally you can do tricks with it thanks to Throne Room and King's Court, treasure-less engines...  but those are extreme edge cases.

Feast is just a nothing. That still makes it better than Pirate Ship, Coppersmith, Thief, and Scout, which are all worse than nothing in most cases. But yeah, it's not better than Navigator.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2012, 05:27:48 am »
+2

WV < FV = WV

That's a bold statement...
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $4 cards
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2012, 05:38:57 am »
0

I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.

You certainly wouldn't on Turns 1, and 2, where Nomad Camp is often a good play; not all the time, but sometimes. Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.

Nomad Camp is so rarely the right play early too. Unless you're going for massing $2 cards or Copper, you don't have anything to do with the +buy anyway.

Well, usually when you buy it Turn 1, it's because you hope to buy a critical $5 before the first reshuffle. There are quite a few $5s--Witch, Mountebank, IGG, Hunting Party, to name a few--where this is usually worth it.

Doubtful. You only have a 40% of actually getting that $5 card, and if you don't have a backup plan to do something good with your 2 buys and $4, then you're left having opened Woodcutter/Silver 60% of the time. Go to the sim and add a buy rule for Nomad camp on turn 1 to the Witch/Mountebank bots . They become worse than just opening Silver/Silver on 4/3. Hunting Party improves, but that's just because a terminal Silver adds a lot to a HP deck. Navigator still does better as an opening even though it has a negative synergy forcing bad reshuffles. Similarly with IGG, it's better than Silver/Silver, but not better than Navigator or even *gasp* Feast.
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