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Author Topic: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (GAME OVER: MAFIA WINS!)  (Read 137043 times)

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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #225 on: July 18, 2012, 11:14:46 pm »

This is indeed unusual.  I too was planning on changing my vote.... but not to pingpongsam.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #226 on: July 18, 2012, 11:14:56 pm »

I don't like the Sharky bandwagon. Time to start a new one.

Vote: Pingpongsam

How... Unusual of you?

I know. I like to be spontaneous.
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shark_bait

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #227 on: July 18, 2012, 11:17:45 pm »

My actions have garnered quite a bit of discussion already, no need to keep this up.

unvote
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #228 on: July 18, 2012, 11:21:59 pm »

So RobZ - would you like to explain your vote?  My current read on PPS is of the "mislynch waiting to happen" variety.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #229 on: July 18, 2012, 11:33:45 pm »

So RobZ - would you like to explain your vote?  My current read on PPS is of the "mislynch waiting to happen" variety.

We'll never know for sure unless we lynch him.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #230 on: July 18, 2012, 11:37:38 pm »

That is a good argument.
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timchen

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #231 on: July 18, 2012, 11:56:39 pm »

Ok. Catching back up. Since the players here are not too many I can actually do a list!

shark_bait: slightly scummy. If were scum I will lynch frisk next.
frisk: mostly neutral, but I am still curious on he pointing out #2 in shark's reply. See below.
eevee: no read. lurking.
manda: slightly town. Young Nick's accusation does not make sense to me.
Robz: lurking.
PPS: if I have to choose an obv. town except myself it is my choice here.
Young Nick: neutral for now.
Galzria: another obv. town, not as obvious as PPS though.

So the main thing I see here is still how people react to the #2 comment from shark. Personally I only find it illogical, not scummy. Again I would be very glad if someone can point out how that comment is scummy. The fact that frisk "coaches" and shark immediately listens looks really bad from my eyes. I don't have strong reads on any others, but from the posts Galz and PPS are the most likely townies to me.
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Voltgloss

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #232 on: July 19, 2012, 04:31:16 am »

Vote Count 1-7

timchen (1): Captain_Frisk
Captain_Frisk (1): timchen
shark_bait (3): manda2014, pingpongsam, Young Nick
manda2014 (1): Eevee
pingpongsam (1): Robz888

Not Voting {2}: Galzria, shark_bait

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #233 on: July 19, 2012, 08:45:20 am »

The #2 comment is scummy (in my mind) because as other people have pointed out - townies don't need to be concerned with the perception of whether or not they are town.

The argument is also illogical (why would voting for me make him appear to be town), but the fact that this is something he is concerned with is scummy.

If you are lynched as VT on day 1 - you are providing a service to the town.  This isn't something I fully understood in my first game, and why I'm willing to give him a 1 day pass.  Nobody wants to be lynched - especially in their first game.

Vote: Manda2014

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Young Nick

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #234 on: July 19, 2012, 09:15:31 am »

The #2 comment is scummy (in my mind) because as other people have pointed out - townies don't need to be concerned with the perception of whether or not they are town.

The argument is also illogical (why would voting for me make him appear to be town), but the fact that this is something he is concerned with is scummy.

If you are lynched as VT on day 1 - you are providing a service to the town.  This isn't something I fully understood in my first game, and why I'm willing to give him a 1 day pass.  Nobody wants to be lynched - especially in their first game.

Vote: Manda2014

Well, getting lynched as a VT is online providing a service to the town if it inspires good discussion. Considering this, I could see how he does not yet want to be lynched... there hasn't been THAT much conversation thus far.

On another note, could you explain why you vote Manda?
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #235 on: July 19, 2012, 09:18:38 am »

Manda lynch is panda lynch?
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #236 on: July 19, 2012, 09:19:56 am »

Seriously though - i felt that her vote on SB was pressured when she was called out for not voting - and I think she's read enough mafia to really have a sense that shark_bait's play is more likely noob than scum.
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manda2014

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #237 on: July 19, 2012, 09:24:27 am »

Heading to jury duty right now, so no time to post. I'll be around this afternoon, though.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #238 on: July 19, 2012, 09:26:29 am »

Guilty!
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Young Nick

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #239 on: July 19, 2012, 09:41:18 am »

Hey! I'm at jury duty right now hanging out in the juror's lounge playing iso. If I didn't have wifi I probably would have killed myself out of sheer boredom already.

manda you wouldn't happen to serve in DC by chance would you?
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #240 on: July 19, 2012, 12:15:55 pm »

Whoops, realized I'd neglected this thread for a day.

So I'm a bit torn. I stand pretty strongly by the fact that even the potential presence of a cop should be enough to deter a Mafia S_B from even attempting a Gambit like claiming VT. Even if a Mafia S_B decided to try it anyway, he should at least be given the night for a cop to confirm/deny his claim.

That said, I'm a little wary of the people still pushing for his lynch. Drawing from experience however, it's usually town that pushes bad wagons along with their votes. Back in M-II, when Robz and I were new scumlings, he pushed hard for Morgrim with his voice, while only adding his vote at a later time. I also didn't climb aboard until late, denouncing many of Robz's arguments as "straw-man" cases. That said, I chose to apply pressure elsewhere by placing my vote on bozzball. Incidentally, the choice of bozzball was that (aside from his nature as a player), his vote was not on Morgrim - so I could tie them together as partners.

Why is all of that relevant you ask? Well, because I'm not convinced that there is scum voting for S_B right now. There have been a few reasoned arguments, including my own why he should live to see the night at the least. It would look rather scummy to ignore those, and continue to think S_B is scum. But I'm here to find and lynch Mafia, not scum.

So, I'm looking at Eevee, Robz, Captain_Frisk, and timchen.

Eevee: Not normally a lurker. FoS Fuzzy. Come play.

Robz: Also lurking, but in a lot of games. He is mixing up his playstyle,, which could be to throw a former teammate (me) off his scummy tail. Or he could be genuinely interested in trying new things.

CF: He makes a lot of sense. Almost too much sense. Alright, I can't hold that against him, but I COULD see him and Timchen working as a team. Their RVS OMGUS votes could have been preplanned. I mean, who would expect scummies to come out playing towards each other like that? ME! That's who! Still, that's about all I have to go on at the moment.

Timchen: Matches much of what's said about CF, except that his overall play has given me a slightly more negative vibe. Not to mention (and this is really, personally unfair - but it's how I feel) anybody who reads me (or anybody else) as "obvtown" gets a huge FoS from me. Not only do I detest the term, I find it MUCH more in the repertoire of scum than town. Scum need friends. Town needs to stay on it's toes. Timchen is definitely highest up on my list, but still not high enough to vote yet.

Oh, and let's not forget me! Hi! I'm not voting S_B, but I'm not scum either! My role PM proves it... Unless this is a Bastard Game...?

So: That's where I'm at. Thoughts?
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

manda2014

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #241 on: July 19, 2012, 12:51:22 pm »

I WISH I was in DC. Alas, I'm wasting away in Texas.

Anyway,

Seriously though - i felt that her vote on SB was pressured when she was called out for not voting - and I think she's read enough mafia to really have a sense that shark_bait's play is more likely noob than scum.

I was planning on voting soon anyway. I'd already stated a few times that I found Sharky's play to be suspicious, and I decided I might as well vote. Could it be noob play? Sure, but it still feels really scummy to me. What Galz says (and I realize this is a reiteration of an earlier point) about not just lynching people because they read scummy does make sense, and I'm not certain I'm going to leave my vote on Sharky; perhaps letting him survive the night could provide us with some more information. But, for now, my vote rests.

I'd also like to point out that Robz's play seems really strange to me... from what I've read, Robz, you're NOT spontaneous. A lot of WIFOM in this though... I'd tend to think that Robz wouldn't do anything out of character like that to draw attention to himself if he were scum, which may mean that he is scum and he knows we'd think he wouldn't change it up if he were scum and is using that to his advantage, etc. I'm not very suspicious yet, but it's enough to keep me interested.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #242 on: July 19, 2012, 12:57:07 pm »

I think it might be a mistake to assume Town has a cop. Also, I don't quite understand how a Town cop could communicate alignment without divulging his/her role.

What we know is that there are only 2 Mafia and one of them IS a cop. If  Sharky is one of those members then there is a 50% chance he is the cop. We, on the other hand, potentially have 2 PRs and their identity would be wholly protected if we did nab the Mafia cop. Going out on an equally precarious limb as presupposing we have a Town cop we can presuppose we have a cop AND a doctor. If we pop the Mafia cop the first night the Town cop is free to divulge identity for the Doctor to protect and then Town's scumhunting capabilities are on steroids.

So, looking at this strictly from a risk vs reward analysis the question becomes whether or not the potential reward of getting Mafia's cop before the 1st night begins is worth the potential downside that Sharky flips Town which would still provide good information.

That said, I concede that if Sharky is scum but not the cop then we are better off hunting for their cop not only to neuter the PR capabilities of the scumteam but also because Sharky appears to be a fairly craptastic Mafia. I don't know what Voltgloss' Alignment/Role selection process was but I'm guessing he would have paired a noob with one of the more experienced people to comprise the Mafia team. If Sharky is the noob and not the cop role then finding the experienced cop player would be the the best possible lynch. However, by virtue of being the more experienced player they are not going to be hanging out there for easy pickings. They might be lurking... They might bus their teammate... I really am running out juices on this post at this point because I too easily drift down all the logical branches.




All that said, this idea of lynch mafia not scum sounds great coming off the keyboard but exactly how is that accomplished? When is scummy behavior too obvious to be actually scumtell? What is a Mafiatell versus a scumtell?
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Voltgloss

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #243 on: July 19, 2012, 01:00:27 pm »

I don't know what Voltgloss' Alignment/Role selection process was but I'm guessing he would have paired a noob with one of the more experienced people to comprise the Mafia team.

Roles and alignments were distributed entirely randomly.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #244 on: July 19, 2012, 01:05:48 pm »

YaY, a logical corridor I can now ignore! ;D
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #245 on: July 19, 2012, 01:06:07 pm »

All that said, this idea of lynch mafia not scum sounds great coming off the keyboard but exactly how is that accomplished? When is scummy behavior too obvious to be actually scumtell? What is a Mafiatell versus a scumtell?

I have never been able to get an answer to this question.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #246 on: July 19, 2012, 01:15:04 pm »

All that said, this idea of lynch mafia not scum sounds great coming off the keyboard but exactly how is that accomplished? When is scummy behavior too obvious to be actually scumtell? What is a Mafiatell versus a scumtell?

I have never been able to get an answer to this question.

O is the only one who's ever left a Mafiatell, in M-IV. Every other person who has ever been lynched due to anything (read: "scummy behavior") other than direct PR influence has been town. Every single person.

Like, it's rather scummy to still be pushing a S_B lunch at this point. But that doesn't make you all high Mafia suspects.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #247 on: July 19, 2012, 01:17:36 pm »

Yeah - some movement in here.  Who do you find scummy Mr. Zria?
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Eevee

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #248 on: July 19, 2012, 01:27:52 pm »

All that said, this idea of lynch mafia not scum sounds great coming off the keyboard but exactly how is that accomplished? When is scummy behavior too obvious to be actually scumtell? What is a Mafiatell versus a scumtell?

I have never been able to get an answer to this question.

Well, scumplay is accidental bad townplay, mafia play is always intentional. Our job is to figure out if the guy who messed up is sincere in his apologies or just sorry he got caught.

I'm sorry I've beem lurkish. I've actually been online and reading, just finding it hard to find anything to say. Galzrias assessment "scum isnt voting for s_b atm" feels super far-fetched, dont really agree you can now that.. unless you are scum obv.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia VII: The Annual Nose-Stealing Competition (DAY 1 UNDERWAY)
« Reply #249 on: July 19, 2012, 01:43:04 pm »

Yeah - some movement in here.  Who do you find scummy Mr. Zria?

I believe I covered that not two posts ago?
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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