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[ackack]

100 percent agreement on Cutpurse, though.  It's a solid opener that can do almost as much damage as Militia, and I don't get why people dislike it so much.

I think the praise "almost as much damage as Militia" suggests why: it's pretty much straight worse than another card costing the same. The only time it can do anything extra is if you already have a handsize reducer to play before it. (EDIT: Okay, in the early game your opponent could have a hand with two estates. The point about scaling is still valid.) And it scales terribly to the late game, when Militia is still quite effective. I'll open with it if there are no other good 4s, but it's definitely a weaker card, and possibly the weakest 4 I'd open with.

Ultimately it seems most of the discussion about what is bad just revolves around how often certain types of situations come up. I'd agree with you, for example, that Outpost is kind of a crappy card. But in the situations where it becomes good (e.g. decks with huge reliable draw like Scrying Pool + trashers, no +buy or additional gain possible) it becomes a quite important card indeed. Its badness is just that those situations are pretty rare.

[chwhite]

100 percent agreement on Cutpurse, though.  It's a solid opener that can do almost as much damage as Militia, and I don't get why people dislike it so much.

I think the praise "almost as much damage as Militia" suggests why: it's pretty much straight worse than another card costing the same. The only time it can do anything extra is if you already have a handsize reducer to play before it. (EDIT: Okay, in the early game your opponent could have a hand with two estates. The point about scaling is still valid.) And it scales terribly to the late game, when Militia is still quite effective. I'll open with it if there are no other good 4s, but it's definitely a weaker card, and possibly the weakest 4 I'd open with.

Ultimately it seems most of the discussion about what is bad just revolves around how often certain types of situations come up. I'd agree with you, for example, that Outpost is kind of a crappy card. But in the situations where it becomes good (e.g. decks with huge reliable draw like Scrying Pool + trashers, no +buy or additional gain possible) it becomes a quite important card indeed. Its badness is just that those situations are pretty rare.

But Militia is really good!  Sure I'll probably buy Militia instead if both are on the board, but that's no slam against Cutpurse.  It's a bit like saying I'll buy Ambassador instead of Masquerade- doesn't mean Masquerade is a bad card, far from it.  Alternatively, it's like saying Pirate Ship is good because it's better than Thief for the same cost.  No, it still sucks, just not as hard.

And there are plenty of $4s which I'd consider opening with, but would rather take a Cutpurse:  Baron, for instance.

[guided]

Militia is generally stronger than Cutpurse in 2p games, though Cutpurse is still good on its own. In 4p games Cutpurse is just evil.

[ackack]

And there are plenty of $4s which are I will consider opening with, but would rather take a Cutpurse:  Baron, for instance.

I'd be curious to see the rest of this list. I think Baron > Cutpurse, usually, but it's also pretty close to the bottom of the totem pole.

Without an exhaustive list of the 4s, I might be missing some here, but openers I'd prefer on average to Cutpurse in no particular order: Sea Hag, Remake, Salvager, Tournament, Caravan, Militia, Baron, Young Witch, Moneylender. I think Cutpurse generally beats the $4 Villages and Throne Room, and it's probably better than Feast on average, but that's about it.

I'd also prefer Cutpurse to Bureaucrat on average, but I basically never open with Bureaucrat. Coppersmith I'd have to think about.

[chwhite]

And there are plenty of $4s which are I will consider opening with, but would rather take a Cutpurse:  Baron, for instance.

I'd be curious to see the rest of this list. I think Baron > Cutpurse, usually, but it's also pretty close to the bottom of the totem pole.

Without an exhaustive list of the 4s, I might be missing some here, but openers I'd prefer on average to Cutpurse in no particular order: Sea Hag, Remake, Salvager, Tournament, Caravan, Militia, Baron, Young Witch, Moneylender. I think Cutpurse generally beats the $4 Villages and Throne Room, but it's probably better than Feast on average.

I'd agree on most of those except for Baron, which is a lot worse than people give it credit for. Sure, it ups your chance at an early Gold, but if you get it in a hand with four Coppers you are just screwed, and that happens a lot. I'd add Smithy and probably Bishop, too.  Other folks might add Envoy too but I have an irrational hatred of that card.    Thing is, though, there are a lot more $4 cards out there that you're forgetting about.  Some of them are really powerful but often worse than Cutpurse as an opener: e.g. Tournament, Conspirator.  Some of them are situational: e.g. Ironworks, Potion.  Some don't make any sense as openers: the Villages, Throne Room, Spy.  Some are okay openers but I'd rather have Cutpurse: Remodel, Island, and Baron.  Actually, I do horribly with Caravan and would probably take a Cutpurse over Caravan b/c of that, too. 

Probably the worst $4 I'd open with (not counting strange setups which favor normally-bad cards like Bureaucrat and Talisman) would be Navigator.

EDIT:  Councilroom says I buy Cutpurse about 47 percent of the time, and do slightly better than average whether I buy it or not (1.28 Win Rate With, 1.27 Without).  So, it's not an elite opener but it's pretty good, and I feel comfortable with that evaluation.

[Elyv]

Some are okay openers but I'd rather have Cutpurse: Remodel, Island, and Baron.

Can you talk about Island as an opener? I just tend to assume that it's almost automatically worse than silver, since it's essentially a one-shot trasher that gets rid of one card. I just don't really feel it's worth it as an opening buy.

[chwhite]

Some are okay openers but I'd rather have Cutpurse: Remodel, Island, and Baron.

Can you talk about Island as an opener? I just tend to assume that it's almost automatically worse than silver, since it's essentially a one-shot trasher that gets rid of one card. I just don't really feel it's worth it as an opening buy.

No, it's not a great opener.  But if there isn't much other trashing and the $5s are underwhelming, I'll sometimes give it a shot.  The Best Openers list indicates that it's a good partner to Swindler, which seems to make some sense. 

[Elyv]

Some are okay openers but I'd rather have Cutpurse: Remodel, Island, and Baron.

Can you talk about Island as an opener? I just tend to assume that it's almost automatically worse than silver, since it's essentially a one-shot trasher that gets rid of one card. I just don't really feel it's worth it as an opening buy.

No, it's not a great opener.  But if there isn't much other trashing and the $5s are underwhelming, I'll sometimes give it a shot.  The Best Openers list indicates that it's a good partner to Swindler, which seems to make some sense. 

I can kind of see it, but I think I'd usually prefer to open Swindler/Silver.

[guided]

Council Room's winningness data suggests Island is a good-not-great opener, but while I can find arguments for opening with it I don't find them terribly convincing. I do kind of trust the data though, even to the point where I will sometimes open Island just because I've seen that data! I think the 2 VPs is key to its power as an early buy.

[DG]

Can you talk about Island as an opener?

I can remember a post on boardgamegeek suggesting that islands were an incredibly overpowered opener that won every game. I'm guessing it was a case of group thinking: if they all buy islands then someone who bought an island will win the game.

[timchen]

The island is a good opener when there is no other trashing available. Think this way: with light trashing, a single trash is the same as having a lab in your deck! It is true that it only works one shuffle later and behaves worse than a curse for the immediate shuffle (since you need an action to get rid of it); nevertheless you get 2 VP out from it and it only costs $4.