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Author Topic: I will try to post a game here every day.  (Read 37900 times)

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ehunt

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2012, 09:54:58 am »
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your opponent has obscene luck with a farming village open on turn 3.

i don't like tournament/masquerade opening. masquerade/silver is safer. I would pick up a second masquerade (because of jester and followers) and only buy money afterwards.

edit: testing the edit feature.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 08:28:41 pm by ehunt »
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Tombolo

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 04:19:34 pm »
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Fishing over the "better" villages?  That makes sense, actually, just not something I would usually think to do.  Double Masq/BM could've been fun, too.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/10/game-20120710-131027-5beb7fa1.html

What I went for: Young Witch/Tunnel/Governor/Chapel
What he went for: Amb/Chapel
What I wound up with: Governors!

This is another "lots of options" board, I feel like.  I didn't actually see the Chapel until turn 2...but I don't think I would've played it much differently if I had.  I was trying to gain gold by discarding Tunnels, but only hit it twice.  The game ended more quickly than I was really expecting, and I wound up with more Governors than expected because I kept hitting $5.  I thought about getting Amb at some point, but figured it wouldn't be that useful with Chapel, and I didn't really want another terminal.  Same thing with JoaT.  I got a Harem somewhere in there mainly in case I ran HoP, but didn't get a chance to do so. 

-Should I have picked up JoaT or Amb at some point?
-Should I have greened sooner?  Maybe with Governor remodel?
-Did I use my Governors effectively?  There were a couple of times I wasn't sure what to pick.
-Was YW/Tunnel a mistake here?  It went quickly enough that I feel the curses and Tunnel discards didn't help me a ton.
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mgallop

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 06:37:10 pm »
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Weird board, not totally sure what I'd do, especially considering the opponent got the 5-2 split which seems insane there.

-I'm pretty sure YW is wrong because of Amb and Chapel. I also didnt like using the Governor to remodel on t5 given the Chapel and general speed of the game. I might have tried to leverage your opponents 5-2 by going Amb/Amb or Amb/Silver and then transition to Governors.

-In terms of greening, I think on turn 10 you want to remodel gold into prov instead of buying harem (and buy caravan I guess) and I think given tunnel and gov that you want to buy harem pretty much always instead of gold: you had a good shot to win if you split the provinces but you have to go for them pretty early since Gov rarely slows down.

-Also, I don't think Jack is quick enough vs Gov and Chapel.
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zahlman

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2012, 11:31:50 pm »
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I think given tunnel and gov that you want to buy harem pretty much always instead of gold

I don't think I understand the reasoning here.
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eHalcyon

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2012, 11:42:17 pm »
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I think given tunnel and gov that you want to buy harem pretty much always instead of gold

I don't think I understand the reasoning here.

I'll take a stab at it.

You can get free Gold from Tunnel and Governor, so you don't need to buy it.  Harem is a good buy because it is also at $6, which means you can remodel it into a Province like Gold, but it is also a VP so it is really helpful endgame if you don't get around to remodelling it.
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mgallop

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2012, 11:51:59 pm »
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I think given tunnel and gov that you want to buy harem pretty much always instead of gold

I don't think I understand the reasoning here.

I'll take a stab at it.

You can get free Gold from Tunnel and Governor, so you don't need to buy it.  Harem is a good buy because it is also at $6, which means you can remodel it into a Province like Gold, but it is also a VP so it is really helpful endgame if you don't get around to remodelling it.

That was what I was thinking. Given the remodel endgame you need to keep buying 6s, when you hit (especially given how many govs you have), Harems help you win if you split the provinces, and you should have enough Gold that the 1 money difference isn't worth the VP.
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Tombolo

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2012, 12:29:50 pm »
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I won something!

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/11/game-20120711-091844-5fe0d6a0.html

What I went for: Embassy/Tunnel w/Caravans and Lookout
What he went for: Lookout/Vault/Tunnel
What I wound up with: More Caravans than I really wanted

I played right after I woke up and I know I made a couple of silly mistakes, like buying Caravan over Peddler or playing Caravan before Lookout, but my deck generally went just as planned.  I wasn't expecting to hit $5 on turn 3, so I opened Lookout instead of Tunnel thinking it might help me get to Embassy a bit.

-...What should I have opened?  I don't think Lookout/Remodel was it.  Maybe Tunnel/Silver?  I don't think Remodel did much for me at all, and Lookout doesn't help set up Embassy that much.
-I only got one Embassy and didn't get many Tunnels before late.  Should I have pushed that combo a bit more?
-....Heck, I didn't even notice Vault until I was looking over the report.  Embassy is better for Tunnel though, right?
-Was Caravan a good buy?  I was trying to cycle to my Embassies faster and give them more options.
-Lookout hurt more than it helped in late-game.  Should I have stopped playing it, or was I just unlucky?
-....did they change the wording on Remodel or have I just not had my coffee?  I could have sworn it was always "exactly $2 more" but it's entirely possible I'm just slowly going insane.
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gman314

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2012, 01:22:20 pm »
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I think that Caravan over Peddler is fine because it gets you more cards. Peddler is best in a dense deck when you can get a pile of them with +Buys. Not in an Embassy deck where you'll probably end up discarding them quite often.

I also don't think Lookout/Remodel is a good opening. But Tunnel/Silver gives you Tunnel as just dead weight, with no value until next time through. Tunnel is not a good opening unless you also open with something like Young Witch or Warehouse to discard it quickly. Your only opening possibility which could have activated Tunnels quickly would be Tunnel/Lookout, and I think that's pretty solid. I probably would have opened with Caravan/Lookout or Caravan/Silver to pursue your strategy. The Caravans help you get a bigger hand size to get more Tunnels for Embassy to discard. The Lookout would provide a bit of discarding as well as increasing your Tunnel concentration. However, the Silver would help you get to your critical $5 sooner.

Seeing as you ended with 11 Gold, I'd say that you pushed your combo enough. However, a second Embassy would get you through your deck more quickly.

Vault is only better than Embassy for Tunnel if you're discarding 4 or more Tunnels.

I think that Caravan was a good buy.

You should generally stop playing Lookout eventually because it can indeed hurt.

Remodel has always been "up to $2 more"

Overall, I think you played a pretty decent game. Good job!
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gman314

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2012, 02:17:28 pm »
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And, with no +Buys, I'm not sure how useful the Banks were.
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DG

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2012, 02:43:43 pm »
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Open remodel/silver, remodel estates to caravans and buy caravans plus a vault/embassy, use banks/platinum to buy provinces. The lookout isn't needed as you can use the copper and remodel out the estates. The tunnel is a red herring.

Strangely enough it is quite like this game, with a whole article on it. Who'd have thought that one of my dominion articles would be sponsored by a ladies perfume (through the web advert)!
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Tombolo

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2012, 03:01:52 pm »
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man I don't know what you're talking about Tunnel is gr-
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/11/game-20120711-115929-b8c37d50.html

oh

(no real need for a full writeup- I went for the same thing as he did except for some reason I tried to dink around with Tunnel/Emb again to set it up and then yeah you can see how that worked out for speed)
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eHalcyon

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2012, 03:08:13 pm »
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Open remodel/silver, remodel estates to caravans and buy caravans plus a vault/embassy, use banks/platinum to buy provinces. The lookout isn't needed as you can use the copper and remodel out the estates. The tunnel is a red herring.

Strangely enough it is quite like this game, with a whole article on it. Who'd have thought that one of my dominion articles would be sponsored by a ladies perfume (through the web advert)!

But it's a Colony game, so buy Colonies, not Provinces?
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Tombolo

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2012, 11:06:51 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/12/game-20120712-075348-7ed09697.html

I have no idea what happened here

What I went for: KC/GM with Mountebank
What he went for: Same
What I wound up with: ...Pretty much what I wanted, with a couple extra cards

I considered running YW/Tunnel in addition, but then decided that I didn't need to try to force a mediocre Tunnel combo into a good deck AGAIN.  I do pick up a YW somewhere in there just in case, though, which I am pretty sure was silly with Mount on the board, but I had visions of picking up a few Tunnels somewhere down the line on a megaturn.  In the middle of what vaguely approached a comeback, I wind up three-piling accidentally when I give him the last curse, but I'm not too broken up about that since he could have easily gotten it on the previous turn.  Other than that....I'm not sure what happened here.  KC didn't hit ANYTHING until my last turn, and he wound up with a much better deck even though I was pretty much trying to do the same thing.

-Quarry didn't slingshot as well as I'd hoped, and KC/GM never hit until after game should have ended.  Was KC/GM actually a good idea here, or should I have done something like two Mountebanks/BM?
-I am pretty sure that YW was a mistake, but...should I have gotten more actions for my KC to hit?  Like Monument or uh......more Mountebanks?  I was afraid of terminal clash but those dead KC's, man.
-What....happened?  Usually with these I have at least a vague idea of what I did wrong, but here...I dumped lots of curses on him, I stayed (mostly) focused on my goal, and I just got roflstomped on speed anyway.
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mgallop

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2012, 11:35:18 am »
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So, my thoughts with that board are that you only want to pick up GMs once you have KC/Mountebank going, and then use them, and therefore I like Quarry and I really like Courtyard. Courtyard does a better job of ramping you to the early Mount/KC buys then silver, helps you slog through Mountebanked decks, and doesnt slow you down when you hit your stride like Silver does. Most importantly it allows you to connect KC and Mount. Once thats set up, you can buy a GM for the extra buys, but focus on getting tons of KCs, 2 Mounts, a few GMs, and a few Courtyards. And once you get going you can guarantee you have either a KC or a KC target on top for next turn.
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Tombolo

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2012, 12:10:49 pm »
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Courtyard over Silver?  It makes sense, I guess.  I think I underrate Courtyard.
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Tombolo

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2012, 05:33:27 pm »
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I pulled this one out but I am pretty sure I could've done better.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/13/game-20120713-142317-5f0a865c.html

What I went for: Silk Road/Nobles rush
What he went for: Fishing Village/Torturer/Trade Route
What I wound up with: Silk Road/Nobles....junk deck.  That drew itself.

I am pretty sure opening Masq didn't do much for me, although I guess it was nice early on.  It became more of a liability than anything quickly though, with Torturer chains going on and trying to pump Silk Road and my treasure rapidly becoming sparse.  I think Torturer did me a bit better.  My game plan was to three-pile Nobles and Silk Road and uhhhh didn't get that far.  Probably Fishing Village or Curses, but my main focus early on was getting Tac megaturns, making sure I wound up with the lion's share of Nobles, and picking up HT for +Buy and Masq and Torturer because I don't like ignoring them when I have enough actions to play them.  I think I went for Silk Road too early, as it gummed up my deck and left me with no good exit strategy to end game, but I was nervous about not getting enough of them.  Turned out unfounded, and then I somehow managed to hang on to the lead even as it went to Provinces.  I WANTED Golem with this deck but never really had time to get it.

-What WAS the correct open here?  I think HT was good to rush to 5/6 and have buy later, but for 3...Fishing Village?  Trade Route? ....Silver?
-Could I have timed the rush better?  Maybe drained Fishing Villages first?
-....Was Silk Road/Nobles even a good idea here?  Did I go too hard on the Nobles too fast?  Gold might've been nice....
-I was thinking about a second HT as my deck got gummier.  Good idea?
-...Did I want more Torturers?  Could've chained them pretty nicely on the Tac turns.
-I am pretty sure I spaced out on some potential Action -> Tac combos somewhere in there, but oh well.  I also know I tortured him at least once knowing I was about to Masq, derp.
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carstimon

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2012, 06:28:59 pm »
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I think your opponent could have played a harder torturer/fishing village game.  He shouldn't have ever bought nobles, buy torturer instead!  Maybe he was trying to boost trade route.  He gained too many curses against your ONE torturer (Tuns 5, 7(although in retrospect it was right since you played masq), 10, ?13?).  I think silk road/nobles would've lost against a stronger torturer engine, but maybe I'm wrong because of masquerade.

Opening: I think you had the right opening for your idea.  HT is good for the buy.  Masquerade is really welcome if he starts torturing you.  Another option for the $3 is fishing villages, so you can get big draw from nobles, and get masquerade later if he does start torturing you.  The early trashing isn't so important for your deck.  Trade route is something you almost1 never want to get early.

Turn 11 he thinks he has a great idea in buying duchy/estate to boost trade route.  I think this is not a great idea for him.  If you buy trade route instead of silver turn 11, he's done all this work and you get the benefit.    I'd say at this point you buy a couple of those guys, and also always use extra buy on copper: go for trade route a copper; buy copper/silk road.  (along with whatever else you do)

A second HT would have been fine, but at that point the trade route is better.

More torturers: I think if you're doing nobles/silk road, you don't have room to grab more torturers.  The attack would be nice to chain, but I think there's no time when you should've preferred them.

1Sorry for the shameless semirelated showing off, but I'm very proud of this game.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 06:30:42 pm by carstimon »
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Tombolo

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2012, 06:14:04 pm »
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Buying coppers just to feed to Trade Route?  Makes sense, I guess, but not something I've ever thought of doing.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/14/game-20120714-143219-f894685c.html

What I went for: Library/Bank
What he went for: Hamlet/Vineyard
What I wound up with: ....Dukes?

This is another one I won, but I think that had more to do with my opponent than me perhaps? I was originally going for a Bank/Library semi-megaturn engine, going for Hamlet and WV to get the buy to properly run Bank, with Library to pump it.  The engine took a while to get going and didn't pay off as well as I'd hoped, and the other guy was able to beat me to Provinces.   That said, he stalled out somehow, and I went for Duchies out of desparation.  When I drained the pile with little contest and the game was still going, I started going for Dukes, giving me enough points to grab the last Province for a comeback win.

-Should I maybe have just gone for Duke/Duchy the whole time?  There was probably enough money and buy available that it might've made a nice rush if I'd skipped Bank, or a nice long deck with it.
-Loan probably didn't jive with the strategy, but was it good enough to open over Silver anyway?
-Until the Duchy rush, I wasn't really sure what to do at 5.  Should I have gotten the second Library sooner?  More Cartographer?  A Merchant Ship?
-Hamlet/Vineyard seems like a viable plan, especially with stuff like WV.  Should I have gone for it myself, and why didn't it work out better for my opponent?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 08:15:01 pm by Tombolo »
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clb

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2012, 06:24:22 pm »
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https://www.google.com/search?q=dey+gotta+surfer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


Is this the right link, or is my computer just being weird? It doesn't look to point to isotropic or councilroom.
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gman314

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2012, 06:34:09 pm »
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https://www.google.com/search?q=dey+gotta+surfer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


Is this the right link, or is my computer just being weird? It doesn't look to point to isotropic or councilroom.

I was wondering the same. It points to a Google search that has nothing to do with Dominion.
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Tombolo

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2012, 08:15:35 pm »
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Fixed.  What do you mean you can't teach me things about my dominion play by google searches?  :(
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carstimon

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2012, 08:20:55 pm »
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Buying coppers just to feed to Trade Route?  Makes sense, I guess, but not something I've ever thought of doing.
Well, it's not just to feed trade route, in this case.  Here I'm thinking that you actually want the coppers because with all the victory cards your "average card value" is going to be low.  You did have a pretty good engine going though, and it might easily end up that you're able to trash them as quickly as you can buy them.  But you still get the big $.
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zahlman

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2012, 10:24:15 pm »
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Fixed.  What do you mean you can't teach me things about my dominion play by google searches?  :(

At least it wasn't anything super embarrassing.
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DG

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2012, 06:57:48 am »
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Hamlet/Library/Merchant ship makes a good engine. The library works better with fewer vp cards of higher value so you don't really want to congest it with duchy/duke. You can probably collect a lot of actions here and then use two (or three) potions to add high value vinyards at the end.
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carstimon

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Re: I will try to post a game here every day.
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2012, 09:42:02 am »
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Also, if library is your draw, you might prefer hamlet over worker's village:
-If you don't have a library when you play your hamlet, you don't need the +action and you probably don't need the +buy because you won't have enough cards.
-If you do have a library when you play your hamlet, you probably have a couple of low quality cards that you can discard with the hamlet, and hope to draw better from library.

If you do get merchant ships (which you should) hamlet is strictly worse in a hand like MS/MS/hamlet/C/C.  I think it's still better over all.
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