Topic: I will try to post a game here every day. (Read 123228 times)

Tombolo · « **Reply #150 on:** August 19, 2012, 12:21:24 am »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201208/18/game-20120818-072815-cd0471fe.html

What I went for: ALL THE VP CARDS
What he went for: ALL THE VP CARDS except Fairgrounds

My initial plan was to build up for a while and then devour Duke/Duchy/Silk Road in a flurry of +Buy and end the game before my opponent could react and get Provinces. ...Somehow, though, I wound up with a Province deck instead, and beat him mostly that way. It was a weird game. I never actually managed to get any Dukes, but I did take 5 Silk Roads...and 5 Provinces. I wasn't planning to push Fairgrounds hard, but late in the game I realized I'd gotten it to 4 VP without trying, and it became the best consolation prize for missing Province. I am certain there was a better way to rush this, but I guess it worked out.

-I am pretty sure at least a couple of my actions were traps. Workshop->Silk Road didn't really work out as well as I'd hoped, Haven was kinda pointless even as a "why not" buy, and KC....didn't have as much to work with as it usually does. What could I have skipped, and what did I want more?
-Was my rushing idea plausible? It wound up...not being a rush.
-Should I have even gone for those Provinces, or stuck to my guns and tried to drain piles? I was specifically shooting for double SR/Duke/Duchy turns instead of Province turns, but when I got Province turns instead, I figured why not.

Rabid · « **Reply #151 on:** August 19, 2012, 06:26:15 am »

With only oracle for + draw and no trashing it is going to be hard to build an engine on this board.
So I would go for Workshop / Workshop, then rush Silkroad / estate / workshop for the quick 3 pile ending.

Grujah · « **Reply #152 on:** August 19, 2012, 11:31:10 am »

When I see:

Quote

2 Fairgrounds [14 different cards]

It always makes me sad.

Tombolo · « **Reply #153 on:** August 19, 2012, 02:23:42 pm »

Yeah. :\ I miscounted and thought I had, like, 12 max, else I would've pushed them a bit harder.

Tombolo · « **Reply #154 on:** August 20, 2012, 04:48:39 pm »

General question: Against Torturer with Curses left, when should I discard and when should I take the curse?

GendoIkari · « **Reply #155 on:** August 20, 2012, 06:48:38 pm »

Quote from: Tombolo on August 20, 2012, 04:48:39 pm

General question: Against Torturer with Curses left, when should I discard and when should I take the curse?

Here's a thread on that; with lots of good advice:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1791.0

Tombolo · « **Reply #156 on:** August 20, 2012, 11:30:37 pm »

Is this how you're supposed to IW/Gardens, then?

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201208/20/game-20120820-202929-d5137cee.html

ftl · « **Reply #157 on:** August 20, 2012, 11:43:45 pm »

Yep!

Tombolo · « **Reply #158 on:** August 21, 2012, 12:06:12 am »

I hate Pirate Ship with a burning passion, and will veto it every time I get a chance. Most importantly, I feel it really slows the game down and saps the fun, especially on boards where there's not much +$, but I also dislike it because I am neither good at using it nor beating it. That said, it served me well here.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201208/20/game-20120820-205622-13d8c3f7.html

What I went for: Pirate Ship/Oasis
What he went for: Philosopher's Stone/Pirate Ship

I figured Pirate Ship would be a good idea here, although I don't think I initially saw Minion and might've reconsidered if I had. He went straight for Phil Stone, which I think was a mistake once I went Pirates. I wasn't really sure on how to OPTIMIZE the deck, but I figured Oasis would help me cycle, (and make some money if he also went Pirate) Pirates could ramp up pretty quickly, and IW and Talisman would help me pick up the components quickly. I pulled the trigger once I hit $6 on the Pirate mat, after which I only missed Pirate -> Province once. His economy was hurt pretty badly, and he never built his Pirates past $3, so the outcome wasn't really in doubt at that point.

-What could've optimized my engine? Did I want the IW and Talisman? Did I want that many Pirates and Oases?
-Was Pirate Ship actually that great an idea here? I think it would've worked much better with some +Action, and might've been vulnerable against a good Minion deck.
-Did I pick a good time to start going for Provinces?

ftl · « **Reply #159 on:** August 21, 2012, 12:13:26 am »

Pirate ship wasn't a good idea. Oasis/Minion is much better. (Oasis gives you coins, cycles your deck to find Minions, at the cost of decreasing your handsize, which you don't care about because minions. If the opponent goes Pirate Ship, that just clears out your coppers.)

I'd be tempted to open, like, Oasis/Oasis or something. I don't remember exactly how good Oasis openings are at getting to $5, maybe Oasis/Silver is better, not sure. But yeah, a Minion deck is basically immune to Pirate Shipping.

dondon151 · « **Reply #160 on:** August 21, 2012, 01:42:05 am »

You had a much easier time than you should have by the fact that your opponent was opening Potion and missed the PStone/Herbalist combo. Pick up Herbalists on $2, Talismans on $4, and PStones on $3P and PStones will be worth a truckload in no time, allowing you to green like mad.

Minion/Oasis is probably better here because it screws up Herbalist topdecking, but I'm pretty sure that a good PStone strat will still crush Pirate Ships.

zahlman · « **Reply #161 on:** August 21, 2012, 01:31:54 pm »

Quote from: dondon151 on August 21, 2012, 01:42:05 am

You had a much easier time than you should have by the fact that your opponent was opening Potion and missed the PStone/Herbalist combo. Pick up Herbalists on $2, Talismans on $4, and PStones on $3P and PStones will be worth a truckload in no time, allowing you to green like mad.

Minion/Oasis is probably better here because it screws up Herbalist topdecking, but I'm pretty sure that a good PStone strat will still crush Pirate Ships.

... wait... the idea is to use Herbalist to topdeck and re-play PStones... against somebody playing an attack that trashes topdecked treasure? o_O

Rabid · « **Reply #162 on:** August 21, 2012, 01:33:38 pm »

Herbalist top decks, then you draw it end of turn, before the next pirate ship attack.

Tombolo · « **Reply #163 on:** August 21, 2012, 01:34:06 pm »

I always get confused by that kinda thing too.

DrFlux · « **Reply #164 on:** August 21, 2012, 01:58:12 pm »

Minion should set off red flags every time you see it saying "buy me". Maybe not quite as much as cursers or wharf, but its really good if you get lots of them. It doesn't really need it, but it gets even better with other support like trashers/pawn/FV/villages-in-general.

Tombolo · « **Reply #165 on:** August 21, 2012, 02:15:12 pm »

They usually do! I think I just plain didn't see them until I'd already set up my deck around Pirates.

Tombolo · « **Reply #166 on:** August 22, 2012, 05:08:08 pm »

I thought so hard that I could make two oft-maligned cards work at once

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201208/22/game-20120822-135617-22f98583.html

What I went for: Pretty much everything
What he went for: Tunnel/Embassy

I saw lots of Tunnel synergy on this board, so Oasis/Tunnel seemed the obvious open, shooting for Embassy later on. I actually got excited, because both Thief and Scout seemed viable on this board! Scout the Tunnels into my hand for one of my discarders while improving my Embassies, and Thief to wreck all the extra coinage floating around. (and HoP if he went that route) In retrospect, Thief was actually a bit dangerous against Tunnel, and Scout wasn't THAT great a combo, but dangit, I was excited! The game ramped up more quickly than I expected, and I didn't have as much time as expected to build my engine. I was hoping for at least another Embassy, and maybe another Thief and an Expand. I went blow for blow with him for a while, but he was able to break PPR and win.

-Scout and Thief....still weren't worth it, right?
-Did I actually want Secret Chamber? It's one more way to activate Tunnel, and could've protected me from the MIGHTY MIGHTY THIEF, but was it good enough to justify another terminal?
-Would Expand have been a good idea at some point?
-How many Tunnels did I want, and how soon? I wasn't really sure what to do at $3, which would've been a bigger deal if I'd passed on the 4's.
-It never drew, but would it have been a better idea to pass on the Duchess?

DG · « **Reply #167 on:** August 25, 2012, 11:01:46 pm »

I don't know much about tunnels but the simulator says start tunnel/oasis, it's worth the gamble. I know something about scout and thief though and you don't need them. Keep it simple and spend treasures with embassies to buy provinces.

Forge!!! · « **Reply #168 on:** September 06, 2012, 09:18:09 am »

When there's a fast strategy on the board like Embassy/Tunnel, you really have to streamline your deck towards the fast strategy and any extra buy like a scout or thief or secret chamber (well not the secret chamber this game, except for your opponent) is going to be a waste that you could have spent on another tunnel or oasis or silver to help you get up to 5 to get another embassy.

To answer your questions, scout and thief weren't worth it, may as well get a secret chamber because you only had 2 that turn and you can always discard it with embassy, I wouldn't have gone with Expand because again it wasn't part of the main strategy. Before getting an Embassy, especially with Oases, I usually get 1/2 tunnels, and afterwards just as many Tunnels as you can get, while getting another Embassy somewhere in there. They're worth 2 VP, after all.

Tombolo · « **Reply #169 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:25:13 am »

It's been quite a while, hasn't it? My Dominion interest has waned a bit, but I'm still playing some, and I am curious how I could have improved this win.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/14/game-20121014-143119-8f5a103c.html

What I went for: IW/Highway/Market/Expand
What he went for: Market/Trade Route

I got the win here, but it didn't play out quite as planned. I didn't think to get Quarry off the bat, but otherwise my opening went roughly according to plan! I obviously was trying to build my deck around Highway, and I got 7 of them. The idea was to abuse IW and Expand in tandem with Highway, and to use Market for +buy and Trade Route for buys and some trashing. It never really worked quite how I had envisioned, and my opponent threw me by going for provinces early, but he was unable to rush them quite in time, and I was able to overtake him in the end somehow.

-Did I time going for everything correctly? I was able to get Highways quickly, but not as many Markets as I wanted, and the IW and Expand didn't do as much for me in mid/lategame as I'd hoped.
-Did I even want treasure really at all? How about Quarry?
-Why wasn't I able to hit ridiculous Highway combos as well as I'd imagined?
-Should I have just gone Provinces instead?

dondon151 · « **Reply #170 on:** October 15, 2012, 02:34:29 am »

Why would you open with Ironworks? The only other targets at $4 or less that you want are Quarry and Trade Route. Ironworks only does cute things if you manage to match it with a Highway, but you can do about the same thing with Quarry + Market, plus Trade Route also gives a +buy, and Highway adds to that combo.

There is no card draw or sifting in this kingdom, so you want a trim deck if you want to hit a big Highway + Market turn. You will stall as soon as you draw enough "dead" cards into your hand.

DG · « **Reply #171 on:** October 15, 2012, 07:17:49 am »

When you are trying to draw through the deck with only 5 card hands you can't do it by throwing more and more cards into the deck. You need to trim out all the treasures and estates that eventually fill those 5 hand slots as you play out your +1 card actions. This suggests opening trade route/quarry.

Tombolo · « **Reply #172 on:** October 15, 2012, 11:38:18 am »

Maybe I didn't want to open IW, but it's still a good thing to have in a Highway deck, right? Quarry can't help you with treasure (although maybe I didn't want much of that) or green (although probably trying to get Colonies this way was dumb) or picking up multiple engine pieces in a turn. (unless paired with +Buy, but IW/+Buy still outpaces +Buy if you're going for actions)

RisingJaguar · « **Reply #173 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:10:00 pm »

I think the point is the order of the purchases, which is very important. In your end deck, you have trade routes, a quarry, ironworks, and silvers in your deck. We probably all agree these are important to the deck you want to build (well not the silvers, that sounds bad, but semi-necessary?).

So what is important is when we purchase it. The reason ironworks doesn't work so well at the start is, at best, it will be a gainer for quarry and provide you with another dollar, even possibly getting you to highway purchase. While this case sounds good, the likelihood isn't all that great. Quarry opening ensures early highway purchase on T3/T4. You were very fortunate to hit highway still, while also having the 1 highway, and 1 ironworks line up afterwards.

While the silver is necessary with the ironworks, as getting to $5 is pretty important, with quarry, it is not as essential for the counter reason. Thus, the extra trashing from trade route is very much wanted at the start.

Moreless, this deck does not want treasures, so much so that your first gold is surely a mistake. With that in mind, quarry is infinitely better than silver in this case, which makes the quarry/trade route opening a lot better.

Tombolo · « **Reply #174 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:57:51 pm »

Understood. A couple of quick questions from games today that didn't merit full writeups:

-I opened Steward/Silver on a Witch board. On the first use, is it better to use the trashing, or the +$2 to get Witch? Does that change if your opponent opens Witch?
-If Amb and IGG are out, which would you prefer? I tried to run both, and I feel it was self-defeating.

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Author Topic: I will try to post a game here every day. (Read 123228 times)