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[eHalcyon]

Aw, near the bottom.  Cheers to the winners!

My original idea for Enchanted Forest was to have the price start low and INCREASE.  Then I thought it would be good if it was the opposite.  Now I think increase is better again. 

[shark_bait]

There was an observation that my card allowed you to steal someone elses duration card.  A simple fix of the wording is to reword to say, "When you buy this, return a card that you have in play on top of your deck"

[popsofctown]

It's nice that we have both a winner that assists Provinces and a winner that can be an alternative to Provinces. 

Again, my favorites had a tendency not to rank well, and my unfavorites scored high (my own card's failure is not a surprise or disappointment because it is not tuned quite right).

[Titandrake]

I didn't vote for Museum, but I voted for Herald and Canal so all in all I'm okay with this. They're all pretty solid.

As soon as I realized Mobile Home gave you 5 VP for $6, I knew I wasn't going to do well. The issue with the whole "when buy gain less" mechanic is that when you put it on a Victory card, you only use it in the endgame to sneak in some VP anyways. Maybe you use it when you pick up a Gold to force the other player to buy an extra Victory card in the endgame. The card I should have made was:

Some Name
$4*
Victory

1 VP
------
Has whatever cost as long as it's >= 4
When you buy this, gain a non-Victory card costing exactly $1 more than this.

So now you have an incentive to pick up a Victory card, instead of only using it for an endgame VP boost. Opening 5/3 or 6/2 on turn 1/2 is probably broken, so it needs to be fiddled with a bit. But whatever. What's done is done.

[eHalcyon]

I gave 2 to Frontier and Kingfisher, which both ranked fairly low... heh.

I gave 1 to District, Canal, Land Prospector, Woodland, Sprawl, Plantation (2) and Museum.  So... not bad overall?

[shark_bait]

Here's my reasoning behind my card. 

My first decision was to pick the price.  I decided to not due $6 due to Harem/Nobles/Farmland/Fairground.  I really didn't feel like designing a more expensive card and just decided that I enjoy games where there are VP cards at costs other than standard VP cards.  This left $3 and $4 for me to pick between.  The mechanic came to me in some of my numerous games where I've drawn KC/TR dead numerous times.  I thought, what if there was a card, that allowed me to get that KC back on my deck without needing to have purchased such card earlier.  Naturally, a buy/gain mechanic allowing top decking was required.  I decided to include both action and treasure to make the effect occur regardless of whether an action, treasure or both had been played.  Midgame, you can buy it to align action cards with careful deck control.  There is also the option to buy it multiple times with attack cards in play such as Goons/Witch in order to play them as much as possible.  And finally, end game, they provide a unique contrast to Duchy.  With $5+, you need to decide whether the extra VP from Duchy is more important or if the ability to put one of your good cards on top is more important.

EDIT:  Forgot to say why $4!  I kinda touch on it, but I wanted the card to be more of an alternative to Duchy rather than an alternative to Estate

[Qvist]

Congrats to the winners. Museum is really a great card.

And @Petrel: I had exactly the same idea as your "District". Very good idea But I didn't choose to submit it.

Again my card was in the Top 10. Nice.

[Tables]

Well, interesting. I only gave an approval vote to one of the winners, and the two I gave two points - one was near the top (Patron of the Arts) and the other right near the bottom.

Also, Rinkworks, I believe there was at least one approval point for Woodcutter  ?

[Polk5440]

Congratulations to the winners! Good decision to have them Rejoice in Their Shared Victory! Especially since they are very different Victory cards. (Although, come to think of it, I also would have  approved of a decision to cross them off the list and declare the third place card the winner.   )

[DWetzel]

I'm pretty happy with a 6th place finish!  Base Camp/Cormorant wasn't the most dynamic card compared to some of the others, but it was designed with a couple purposes in mind.

First and most obviously was the synergy with Remodel/Expand/Farmland/Bishop/etcetera cards, wherein you can get quite a few VP from a single card.  Less obviously but more amusingly was the interaction with Masquerade and Ambassador.  I think Masquerade loses a lot of its flavor in the middle to late game in most decks, and a card which gives you bankable VP but acts like an Estate as far as sending it to your opponents would add a lot.

On big money boards with no trashing/passing, it obviously isn't the most exciting card, but it does add another level between Duchy and Province, which spices up the endgame a bit, a good thing IMO, and makes it at least as useful as Gardens on a board without Gardens support.

[One Armed Man]

Congrats to the winners and thanks to all submitters.
I was wondering what people thought of my submission: District (7th place, 11points). (Hi Qvist!)
Cost 5. 1 VP for each card you have 5 or more copies of.
The idea is that it can create a race to get a 5th copy (to improve your Districts) or a 6th copy (to block your opponents) of power cards and green cards.
Would you have liked the alternate versions where it costs 6, or one that cost 4 but said "non-Treasure" better or is it fine as-is? The discussion seemed to be over how often it would be used and how strong a rush would be.

[Schneau]

Congrats to the winners and thanks to all submitters.
I was wondering what people thought of my submission: District (7th place, 11points). (Hi Qvist!)
Cost 5. 1 VP for each card you have 5 or more copies of.
The idea is that it can create a race to get a 5th copy (to improve your Districts) or a 6th copy (to block your opponents) of power cards and green cards.
Would you have liked the alternate versions where it costs 6, or one that cost 4 but said "non-Treasure" better or is it fine as-is? The discussion seemed to be over how often it would be used and how strong a rush would be.

One of my main worries is that it's very weak in 3+ player games. It's fine for 2 player, but would rarely, if ever, be worth buying with more players.

[popsofctown]

To me it was a good card but not a great card.  Since the card had you doing something you were going to do anyway, like, stacking Fishing Villages, that was a bit of a turn off when Fairgrounds is a cool card doing the opposite, forcing you to be hipster and pick up a Fortune Teller.

But that doesn't mean it's a bad card, it introduces new dynamics and deciding whether to get 5 Wishing Wells or something could be cool.  It just wasn't as good as many other strong submissions because of that. 
I think Gardens is cooler than Vineyards because Vineyards largely has you doing things you would have done anyway.  But I'm glad both are a part of Dominion.

Preview edit: I disagree with Schneau.  i think it's viable with more players.

[greatexpectations]

i was the guy who submitted Heron (the peddler-type card) which finished 9th. while i did not expect a first place finish, i was a little disappointed with some of the comments on the card.  true, it will not be useful on every board, but it shouldn't have to be. it is what prompted my post listing buy rates for all of the victory cards. if you compare those to peddler's buy rates i think it will be worthwhile on plenty of boards.

i think that there is a tendency, which jonts26 sort of hit on in his post, for people to think cards need to be really powerful or influential on every board. i am a big fan of the two cards that won, as they are both nice ideas which are not going to be obvious must-buys.

[popsofctown]

I didn't bash it, did I?  I thought it was ok.

[greatexpectations]

didn't mean to pick on you (or anyone) pops! its no big deal, just some commentary on the design contests at large which might have affected how my card did in this go and why i was a fan of the cards that did win.

[popsofctown]

I didn't comment on the card at all, it appears.  Which is generally a form of approval.

[rinkworks]

In retrospect, I should have saved this particular Challenge for later on.  Because, as jonts26 points out in that post, it's very difficult to judge the power of Victory cards and envision how they will play.  I certainly had a harder time gauging these cards than the entries for the other four contests.  And based on the cards trickling in for Challenges #5 and #6, I think those will be easier to gauge as well.

I guess it's because a new VP card necessarily changes the game more than any new Peddler or Smithy variant is likely to.

[Dubdubdubdub]

I don't think Rhinoceros is that weak at all; I really like it! Do realize you can play more than one in a turn, and get the penalty only once. It's not my card, by the way

[Tejayes]

I'm just happy not to get last place. I do think that if zxcvbn2's Sewage Lord got my Scorched Earth's on-gain ability (and maybe price) with it, it might have done better.

[Captain_Frisk]

I can't believe I won.  Rinkworks - after this expansion is done you might want to rethink your voting system. 

I think my card is fine (it's simple, and it explores a currently unexplored space (VP For treasure) - but it's far from flashy.  I think it got votes primarily because it's unoffensive. 

To those who see it as a legit province alternative - With no buys, it would take 20 turns to buy all 8 of these and have them be worth 6.  That's probably slightly faster than emptying all provinces, but not substantially so. 

My thinking basically was:

We have VP for green cards.  We have VP for actions.  We don't have VP for coins.

VP for copper is boring.  VP for number of coins is effectively the same thing.  VP for silver is pretty simple.  VP for gold is rich getting richer.  VP for total coin power in deck is probably the same as VP for number of coins - and has problems with things like Bank.

VP For the set is still simple from a dominion language perspective - but still offers up some interesting side effects:

1. Punishes engine players who overtrash their copper.
2. Creates a reward for tracking your own deck state
3. Changes the math on when to buy duchies (if you already have enough silver, buying an extra gold might make sense)

I considered making it 6 - but thought it would be too weak - because getting it to be worth more than a duchy is trivial.  I think you'll find that in most of the games you play, this card is worth 2VP if you weren't paying attention.

Finally - getting it to be worth more than a province starts to get really hard.

Ultimately, it felt like basically playing with an extra duchy stack (frankly - an alternate VP card worth 3VP that cost $5 and was called "Not Duchy") would be a perfectly playable card), with a slight reward for paying attention to your deck.

I'm still concerned that its too boring.  I only submitted it because I was already submitting Scholars (rejected!)

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh - and I voted 3 points for Shearwater / Herald.  That is a clever card.

[shark_bait]

Oh - and I voted 3 points for Shearwater / Herald.  That is a clever card.

Thx! 

[eHalcyon]

CF, I gave your card 2 points because:

- it is simple but effective
- it makes you think about new things (the balance of copper, silver and gold) that other cards do not
- it is a Treasure-counting VP that isn't obviously broken


I think it would change strategy around other boards too.  Silver gainers would make it so that Gold was the only real restriction on points.    Thief might be more useful for stealing away even Copper.

[iangoth]

I don't think Rhinoceros is that weak at all; I really like it! Do realize you can play more than one in a turn, and get the penalty only once. It's not my card, by the way

That's true, but drawing only three cards next turn is a huge penalty--worse than getting ghost shipped--and its cost makes it only slightly easier to buy than smithy. To put it in perspective, a single rhino nets you +0 cards, possibly doing more harm than good since it converts non-terminal draw (from the clean-up phase) to terminal draw. This means big money + rhino will suck. Probably worse than pure big money. But it's also bad for engines since you're likely to have a dead turn after every rhino play.