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Author Topic: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #3 and #4!  (Read 63146 times)

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iangoth

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2012, 07:51:26 pm »
0

Quote
Loon
$4 - Victory
Worth 1 VP per territory token on [This Card]'s supply pile.
--
Whenever a player buys a Province, put a territory token on [This Card]'s supply pile.
Whenever a player buys a [This Card], remove a territory token from [This Card]'s supply pile.
Could create a decent metagame, but I suspect this is actually too strong as is. If one player rushed them early game, your opponent is basically stuck since he can't start gaining provinces without powering these up. So both players will end up rushing these early, and then the game will degenerate somewhat.
No man, that's the best part! If one guy rushes them all or nearly all early on, you can buy Duchies and another pile to end the game on piles.  If you bought a Province or two during the rush, switch to Duchies, you only need Loons, Duchies, and another pile to run out.  I think that's balanced, albeit on a hairpin.  Sometimes the super Loons rush will be correct like you say, but it will be something you have to determine, not a duh thing.

If one player rushes loons, he probably won't be able to buy many provinces, so the duchy rush would probably be the right counter for the other player. Rushing loons could be weak if you can't get them all, because the province player can steal points by buying one or two. If you have 6 loons worth 5vp, it's a 10vp swing when your opponent buys just one. Also, consider how hard it would be to get more than two or three loons before the other guy gets his first province, after which buying more loons will generally reduce your score. I suspect a loons rush is actually a weak strategy, most of the time. But whether or not a loons rush is a good idea, if both players go for provinces instead of loons, eventually the loons become so good that you can't afford not to buy them. This is likely to be their real strength, and they're too good in this situation--in "normal" games, they'll grow to become cheap provinces or better until someone buys one. Basically, the only game where no one buys a loon at some point is a game where no one buys more than two provinces.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2012, 11:15:40 am »
+1

Here is the ballot for Challenge #4!

--

Voting Rules:

Each person may cast votes as follows:  For each Challenge, you may fill your ballot out in one of two ways:

(1) Award 3 points to one entry.  Award 1 point to any number of other entries.
(2) Award 2 points to each of two entries.  Award 1 point to any number of other entries.

Submit your votes via PM to me by Thursday, July 19, 2012, 10am EDT in the following format:

Quote
Challenge 1

3 CardName
1 AnotherCardName
1 StillAnotherCardName
1 AnotherCardNameGoesHereToo

Challenge 2

2 CardName
2 AnotherCardName
1 StillAnotherCardName

Please use the above format!  One card per line, with the number of votes given before it, and no extra punctuation or anything.  This will make it easy for me to copy-and-paste your votes into the format my vote-counting script needs it to be in.

Do not submit votes for your own cards.  (If you do, my script will catch you anyway.)

By submitting vote(s) for a challenge, you will automatically earn 1 point for your entry in that challenge.  This is to incentivize contestants to submit votes.  (My script does this automatically, so don't worry that I'll forget to do this.)

Note that the supplied card names are for discussion/identification only -- they are not the card names that were submitted to me.  The proper card names will be revealed when the results are announced.  Whenever card text says "[This Card]" it means the submitted text says the card's own name there.

Inclusion on the ballot means that the card was deemed eligible for the contest.  You therefore do not need to consider eligibility when voting.  In some cases, this may mean a pretty loose interpretation of the eligibility requirements.  I tried to be fair but also forgiving when a submission came in that twisted the rules in a way I hadn't foreseen.

As a voter, you may use whatever criteria you wish in determining what your votes will be.  Be as forgiving or particular as you like concerning conformance to standard Dominion terminology.   For all winning cards, there will be a chance to tweak the wording as a community, if necessary, before they are canonized.

--

Challenge #4 - Ballot


Cheetah
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
Discard a card.
Reveal your hand. If you have no Silver in hand, choose one: gain a Gold and a Copper, or gain a Silver.
--
If you have any Gold in play, this card cannot be bought.
If you have any Silver in play, this card costs $6.


Elephant
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
Each other player gains an Action card costing at most $4.


Hippopotamus
$3 - Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand.
--
While this is in play, you cannot buy Treasure cards.


Rhinoceros
$3 - Action
+3 Cards
During your clean-up phase, draw only 3 cards.
--
When you gain this, you may place it on top of your deck.


Lion
$5 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player with 0 or 1 curse on his [This Card] mat gains a curse on their [This Card] mat. If they do not gain a curse, they put all of the curses on their [This Card] mat into their discard pile.
---
At the end of the game, return all cards on your [This Card] mat to your deck.


Fossa
$5 - Action
+6 Cards
Lose your next turn.


Zebra
$6 - Action-Duration
Until the beginning of your next turn, for all other players, all cards (including in players' hands) cost $1 less.
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+3 Cards


Wildebeest
$2* - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
--
This costs $1 more per Treasure card you have in play.


Leopard
$5 - Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. The player to your left chooses to discard them or return them to the top of your deck.
+4 Cards


Giraffe
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card from your hand, then shuffle a card from your hand into your deck.


Okapi
$5 - Action
Name two cards.  Reveal cards from your deck until you have revealed two cards that you did not name.  Place those two cards into your hand and discard the rest.


Hartebeest
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
While this is in play, when you buy a card, if it is a Victory card, trash a copy of the card from the supply. Otherwise, trash two copies of the card from the supply.


Jackal
$6 - Action-Attack
Each player (including you) reveals the top 4 cards of their deck.  Your opponents discard any card of your choice, and they place the remaining 3 on top of their deck in the order of their choice.  You may discard any number of cards from your own deck.  Place the remaining cards on top of your deck in the order of your choice.
+3 Cards


Aardwolf
$3 - Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Put the Victory card and one other revealed card of your choice into your hand and discard the rest.
If the first card you reveal is a Victory card, put it into your hand, then +2 Cards.


Impala
$6 - Action
Discard any number of cards, then draw up to 7 cards in hand. You may trash a card from your hand; if you do, +1 Card.


Eland
$3 - Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal 3 cards costing $4 or less.
Put all revealed cards costing $4 or less into your hand and discard the other revealed cards.


Lemur
$4 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
Put one card from your hand on the bottom of your deck.
Each other player draws a card, then puts cards from his hand on the bottom of his deck until he has 3 cards in his hand.


Mandrill
$4 - Action
Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Put two into your hand and discard the others.


Oryx
$5 - Action
Draw 3 cards from the bottom of your deck. You may put a card from your hand on top of your deck.


Bonobo
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
You may draw up to three additional cards. For each card drawn this way, discard a card at the end of your clean-up phase.


Hyena
$6 - Action
Reveal the top 7 cards of you deck.  Put 2 of them into your hand and discard the rest.


Camel
$5 - Action
Gain a card costing up to $5, putting it on top of your deck.
+2 Cards


Duiker
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. You may set aside up to 3 cards drawn this way, as you draw them. Each other player draws a card for each card you set aside. Discard the set aside cards after you finish drawing.


Kudu
$5 - Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. You may nominate a card name, that, as you draw them, may be set aside; discard the set aside cards after you finish drawing.


Meerkat
$4 - Action
Discard a card.
Choose a card from your discard pile and put it on top of your deck.
If there's no card in your discard pile +4 Cards; otherwise +3 Cards.


Baboon
$5* - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
--
When you buy this card, place it and one other card you have currently in play on top of your deck.
--
When you buy this card, you may pay $3+P instead of $5.


Gorilla
$2 - Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal 4 Victory cards.  Put those Victory cards into your hand and put the other cards back on top in a random order.


Badger
$5 - Action
+4 Cards
Put 1 or 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck.


Pangolin
$6 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: +1 Card; or +$1.


Waterbuck
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Put the Action card in your hand and discard the other revealed cards.
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Archetype

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2012, 11:33:47 am »
+1

I seriously think Lion's someone's idea of changing Soothsayer so it works in this Challenge.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2012, 12:47:16 pm »
0

I dig Wildebeest.  Any card that makes Chancellor good.. ;)

I don't like the Library variants, they tend not to feel different enough from other draw until X's. 

The Ghost Ship variant is way OP, it's a 4$ Ghost Ship with the drawback (?) of putting the cards on bottom of deck instead of top.  Not enough of a drawback to jump the 4-5$ gap.

Elephant seems interesting.  On some boards, it's a curser o.0

I literally almost submitted Meerkat exactly.

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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2012, 12:51:17 pm »
0

Elephant seems interesting.  On some boards, it's a curser o.0

Erm, no.  If there are no actions <= $4, you just don't gain anything (Curse isn't an Action card) -- like if Witch gets played and there aren't any curses left.
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jonts26

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2012, 01:01:18 pm »
0

Elephant seems interesting.  On some boards, it's a curser o.0

Erm, no.  If there are no actions <= $4, you just don't gain anything (Curse isn't an Action card) -- like if Witch gets played and there aren't any curses left.

I think he means to say that if there are actions which you really don't want, and you get stuck with a bunch of them, they just clog your deck as much as a curse would.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2012, 01:04:11 pm »
0

Elephant seems interesting.  On some boards, it's a curser o.0

Erm, no.  If there are no actions <= $4, you just don't gain anything (Curse isn't an Action card) -- like if Witch gets played and there aren't any curses left.

I think he means to say that if there are actions which you really don't want, and you get stuck with a bunch of them, they just clog your deck as much as a curse would.

The card doesn't specifier who chooses what card is gained.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2012, 01:04:23 pm »
0

Yup.  If all the 4$ and less cards are terminal, you get flooded.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2012, 01:05:14 pm »
0

Elephant seems interesting.  On some boards, it's a curser o.0

Erm, no.  If there are no actions <= $4, you just don't gain anything (Curse isn't an Action card) -- like if Witch gets played and there aren't any curses left.

I think he means to say that if there are actions which you really don't want, and you get stuck with a bunch of them, they just clog your deck as much as a curse would.

The card doesn't specifier who chooses what card is gained.
Neither does Saboteur
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Adrienaline

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2012, 01:07:55 pm »
0

Isn't Meerkat way too strong early game? Buy a goons or gold, top deck it with meerkat, then draw it? I like the idea, but surely it can't be with a drawing action.

The wording on Fossa needs changing, but otherwise it's a solid concept. Like Tactitian, but worse/better depending on the board. Encourages Big Money heaps, but I suppose these sorts of cards usually do.

I'm not sure what to make of Wildebeest, considering how many terminal silvers and remodel like cards are out there (this could make develop good!) it seems too easy to get for the asking price. But then, often you won't be able to buy another card. Encouraging of early greening maybe?

I like Aardwolf a lot, though it could be very swingy, hitting your only green card as the second card vs not at all, for example.

Oryx I see as tricky to play with when using real cards. Couldn't you say from the top and then discard one to the bottom?

Kudu with a 5:2 split... Nominate Estate. Gold, then Gold, then Gold, Nominate Copper then Provinces. It would make for a very short game. Needs to be priced higher.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2012, 01:09:36 pm »
0

Neither does Saboteur

So it is usually more beneficial to opponents, hm?  Unless all action cards <= $4 are terrible.
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2012, 01:33:43 pm »
0


Elephant seems interesting.  On some boards, it's a curser o.0

Erm, no.  If there are no actions <= $4, you just don't gain anything (Curse isn't an Action card) -- like if Witch gets played and there aren't any curses left.

I think he means to say that if there are actions which you really don't want, and you get stuck with a bunch of them, they just clog your deck as much as a curse would.

Ah, yes, there is that.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2012, 01:36:29 pm »
0

Neither does Saboteur

So it is usually more beneficial to opponents, hm?  Unless all action cards <= $4 are terrible.
Correct.  Rarely are all the 4$ action cards terminal
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2012, 04:08:20 pm »
0

Here are my comments/impressions.  Disclaimer: None of the cards are mine. :)

Quote

Cheetah
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
Discard a card.
Reveal your hand. If you have no Silver in hand, choose one: gain a Gold and a Copper, or gain a Silver.
--
If you have any Gold in play, this card cannot be bought.
If you have any Silver in play, this card costs $6.

Could be crazy good with Watchtower.  Open Cheetah/Watchtower on 3/4, and load up on Watchtowers.  Then, always choose Gold and Copper --> topdeck Gold, trash Copper.

Quote
Elephant
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
Each other player gains an Action card costing at most $4.

Agree with previous comments that this is a "curser" on some boards.  It could also help the game end on piles early.  Though, I like the strategic interaction that if your opponent plays an Elephant, you can always gain an Elephant.

Quote
Hippopotamus
$3 - Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand.
--
While this is in play, you cannot buy Treasure cards.

Not really excited about this one, but I don't like library-type cards that much unless they have extra abilities (like Watchtower).

Quote
Rhinoceros
$3 - Action
+3 Cards
During your clean-up phase, draw only 3 cards.
--
When you gain this, you may place it on top of your deck.

On its face, this looks interesting, but it feels like it needs to net a card to be worth the cost on most boards.  As it is now, you get a 7-card hand followed by a 3-card hand so it is like playing two Havens in reverse without foresight.  This could be good if under assault by hand reducers --> give a 5-card hand now (after attack) and render an attack next turn moot.

Quote
Lion
$5 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player with 0 or 1 curse on his [This Card] mat gains a curse on their [This Card] mat. If they do not gain a curse, they put all of the curses on their [This Card] mat into their discard pile.
---
At the end of the game, return all cards on your [This Card] mat to your deck.

Interesting use of a mat (though I don't like mats).  So, this would go curse-curse-clog as the attacks roll in.  Seems stronger than Margrave.  Repeated Lions compound by cursing and clogging more, while Margraves sift.

Quote
Fossa
$5 - Action
+6 Cards
Lose your next turn.

Has the feel of a reverse Tactician.  Maybe needs to be an action-duration.  "At the beginning of next turn, discard 5 cards.

Quote
Zebra
$6 - Action-Duration
Until the beginning of your next turn, for all other players, all cards (including in players' hands) cost $1 less.
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+3 Cards

Super-Wharf!  But, to keep the super-Wharfing in check, other players get a Bridge-like benefit.  With Villages, chaining these could be interesting.   I like it.

Quote
Wildebeest
$2* - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
--
This costs $1 more per Treasure card you have in play.

Can't open by buying Wildebeast, but with a Nomad Camp opening, you could get it on your second turn.  Is it worth it?  I suppose with lots of Villages, this could lead to a Margrave-like chain.  If there's synthetic money or trash for benefit, it could be quite easy to pick these up.

Quote
Leopard
$5 - Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. The player to your left chooses to discard them or return them to the top of your deck.
+4 Cards

So your above-average 4 card draws get thrown out, but at least you get to draw 4 cards.  This feels like it could be worse than Envoy on some boards.  Maybe overpriced, but I don't know.

Quote
Giraffe
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card from your hand, then shuffle a card from your hand into your deck.

Maybe too much shuffling when this is being used.  I don't really enjoy shuffling.

Quote
Okapi
$5 - Action
Name two cards.  Reveal cards from your deck until you have revealed two cards that you did not name.  Place those two cards into your hand and discard the rest.

Interesting.  This could be really good in homogeneous decks.  One tactic I'd try: Load up on Silver (buy on 3 and 4), Okapi and Gold.  Name Copper and Estate, draw from my mix of Silver, Gold and Okapi.  There's be some risk of a clash-o-Okapis, but it might be worth it given enough Silver and Gold.  Might relieve tension with Villages...

Quote
Hartebeest
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
While this is in play, when you buy a card, if it is a Victory card, trash a copy of the card from the supply. Otherwise, trash two copies of the card from the supply.

Super game accelerator.  It might make games end too quickly.  At least it is a "when buy" ability rather than "when gain"... so Talisman would only hit for the extra copies if in play.

Quote
Jackal
$6 - Action-Attack
Each player (including you) reveals the top 4 cards of their deck.  Your opponents discard any card of your choice, and they place the remaining 3 on top of their deck in the order of their choice.  You may discard any number of cards from your own deck.  Place the remaining cards on top of your deck in the order of your choice.
+3 Cards
In some ways, much stronger than Oracle (drawing more cards, get to pick the strongest/weakest to discard), but also weaker in that opponents get to reorder the top 3 of their deck (not so much weaker, but it's an ability for your opponent).  It's interesting.

Quote
Aardwolf
$3 - Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Put the Victory card and one other revealed card of your choice into your hand and discard the rest.
If the first card you reveal is a Victory card, put it into your hand, then +2 Cards.

A soft counter to Fortune Teller and Rabble.  Reasonably cheap.  I would give this card a test drive.

Quote
Impala
$6 - Action
Discard any number of cards, then draw up to 7 cards in hand. You may trash a card from your hand; if you do, +1 Card.

This is like an instant Hamlet-Watchtower combo in one card, but better.  It is strong, but feels like it might be too strong.  Maybe its right for $6.  I don't have the intuition for that.

Quote
Eland
$3 - Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal 3 cards costing $4 or less.
Put all revealed cards costing $4 or less into your hand and discard the other revealed cards.
I would be afraid to play this for fear of passing over my $5 power actions.  I don't think I would buy this until someone beat me handily using this.

Quote
Lemur
$4 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
Put one card from your hand on the bottom of your deck.
Each other player draws a card, then puts cards from his hand on the bottom of his deck until he has 3 cards in his hand.

This is what I imagine would happen if Margrave and Ghost Ship had a baby that cost $4, and I'm not sure $4 is enough.

Quote
Mandrill
$4 - Action
Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Put two into your hand and discard the others.

Seems ok.  A little too simple for my taste.

Quote
Oryx
$5 - Action
Draw 3 cards from the bottom of your deck. You may put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
Interesting.  It's a Courtyard with optional top decking.  The option could be valuable.  Seems like a decent card.

Quote
Bonobo
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
You may draw up to three additional cards. For each card drawn this way, discard a card at the end of your clean-up phase.
Neat card.  Could be really good in the face of discard attacks when you would have to discard anyway.

Quote
Hyena
$6 - Action
Reveal the top 7 cards of you deck.  Put 2 of them into your hand and discard the rest.
Fast cycling.  This would be ridiculous with Tunnel.

Quote
Camel
$5 - Action
Gain a card costing up to $5, putting it on top of your deck.
+2 Cards

Could be great with $5 treasures like Venture.  Also, it's like a workshop that works on Duchy-Duke without Highway assistance (with the cost being drawing a card dead in the hand).  With Villages, this could enable some powerful action chains.  Seems like a multifaceted card.  The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Quote
Duiker
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. You may set aside up to 3 cards drawn this way, as you draw them. Each other player draws a card for each card you set aside. Discard the set aside cards after you finish drawing.
The externality seems too powerful for a $5 cost, which would prevent me from wanting to sift (basically, +1 Card for me and everyone else if I don't like a card).

Quote
Kudu
$5 - Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. You may nominate a card name, that, as you draw them, may be set aside; discard the set aside cards after you finish drawing.
I don't know how much the naming of a card is helpful.  It helps a little, but I'm not excited about it.

Quote
Meerkat
$4 - Action
Discard a card.
Choose a card from your discard pile and put it on top of your deck.
If there's no card in your discard pile +4 Cards; otherwise +3 Cards.

I like the idea of sifting through the discard pile.  Interesting idea.  This could be strong with big variance in treasure value (maybe too strong for $4?)

Quote
Baboon
$5* - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
--
When you buy this card, place it and one other card you have currently in play on top of your deck.
--
When you buy this card, you may pay $3+P instead of $5.

Buy this with a village in play, and next turn could be the start of a nice chain.  Interesting dual cost option on the card.

Quote
Gorilla
$2 - Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal 4 Victory cards.  Put those Victory cards into your hand and put the other cards back on top in a random order.

A better Scout that costs $2 and gives no action.  Suitably tricky to pair with Crossroads because you need Villages before, and to play the Crossroads after.

Quote
Badger
$5 - Action
+4 Cards
Put 1 or 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck.
I like the option to put 1 or 2 cards back on the deck.  This could be really valuable.

Quote
Pangolin
$6 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: +1 Card; or +$1.
Like a Council Room without the externality (with the option to take money instead of one more draw).  Seems OK.  Stronger than Council Room, but to my eye, it resembles Council Room too much.

Quote
Waterbuck
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Put the Action card in your hand and discard the other revealed cards.

This could be great with villages.  Without villages, it would guarantee drawing an action dead.  That's an interesting tension.

Overall, this is a cool set of cards.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2012, 04:38:00 pm »
0

I was recently thinking about something that is relevant here.  First, note that I'm not thinking about any particular cards here.  But it occurred to me that the value of having a +Buy is more valuable on a terminal drawer than it is on any of several other cards.  Because if you're adding 3-4 cards in your hand with a terminal drawer, that implies two things:  (1) You're probably playing with a big money deck.  Certainly you MIGHT have some kind of +Actions/+Cards engine going on, but Smithy-type cards tend to be about money.  (2) You might very well have a LOT of money to spend this turn, because you just drew a lot of cards.

Thus, having a +Buy is more likely to come in handy than it would on a card that's not necessarily as lucrative in and of itself.   Trade Route is interesting in this way.  If all you've got for Victory cards are Estates, Duchies, and Provinces, then that +Buy probably isn't all that important.  If there are Colonies, Islands, and Great Halls as well, you're more likely to want to use it.

You can notice a similar thing with Market.  Market is a sturdy $5 card but not earthshattering.  A stack of Markets gives you WAY more +Buys than you'll ever use, which means that they might as well be Peddlers for you.  On the other hand, if you have a whole pile of Peddlers, Bazaars, Treasuries, and Conspirators, then slipping a Market into the mix can be amazing -- worth skipping a Colony over, because maybe it means you can buy two per turn thereafter.  Point is, Market's +Buy needs help to be worthwhile; on its own, it might not even matter.

But combine +Buy with a card that also helps extra Buys matter, and that's something to reckon with.  (This is probably why Adventurer and Bank don't have +Buy on them:  too strong otherwise!)  Anyway, I've made my point:  having +Buy on a Smithy variant might be a somewhat big deal.
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Titandrake

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2012, 05:01:06 pm »
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I was recently thinking about something that is relevant here.  First, note that I'm not thinking about any particular cards here.  But it occurred to me that the value of having a +Buy is more valuable on a terminal drawer than it is on any of several other cards.  Because if you're adding 3-4 cards in your hand with a terminal drawer, that implies two things:  (1) You're probably playing with a big money deck.  Certainly you MIGHT have some kind of +Actions/+Cards engine going on, but Smithy-type cards tend to be about money.  (2) You might very well have a LOT of money to spend this turn, because you just drew a lot of cards.

Thus, having a +Buy is more likely to come in handy than it would on a card that's not necessarily as lucrative in and of itself.   Trade Route is interesting in this way.  If all you've got for Victory cards are Estates, Duchies, and Provinces, then that +Buy probably isn't all that important.  If there are Colonies, Islands, and Great Halls as well, you're more likely to want to use it.

You can notice a similar thing with Market.  Market is a sturdy $5 card but not earthshattering.  A stack of Markets gives you WAY more +Buys than you'll ever use, which means that they might as well be Peddlers for you.  On the other hand, if you have a whole pile of Peddlers, Bazaars, Treasuries, and Conspirators, then slipping a Market into the mix can be amazing -- worth skipping a Colony over, because maybe it means you can buy two per turn thereafter.  Point is, Market's +Buy needs help to be worthwhile; on its own, it might not even matter.

But combine +Buy with a card that also helps extra Buys matter, and that's something to reckon with.  (This is probably why Adventurer and Bank don't have +Buy on them:  too strong otherwise!)  Anyway, I've made my point:  having +Buy on a Smithy variant might be a somewhat big deal.

I'm reminded of the arguments against the Village Idiot. Just as your +Actions are as good as the terminals you play, your +Buys are as good as the amount of extra money you have to spend.

To me, +Buy is a way to push towards building an engine. A Smithy or Envoy powered engine needs +Actions and +Buy to work well, whereas a Wharf or Margrave engine just needs +Actions. I also think it's interesting that asides from Envoy, all cards that draw 4 cards give +Buy.
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2012, 08:39:36 pm »
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I really like this crop of cards. Great work, EVERYONE.

Cheetah- too many parts. The idea is that isn't for Big Money even though it has all parts that support big money?

Elephant- Sets up other players for non-BM strategies.

Hippo- This is one of the only cards here that doesn't work well with BM. It is simple version of a draw up to card which is kind of boring. There hasn't been a simple draw up to X card yet.

Rhinoceros - Only drawing 3 cards your next turn is a huge penalty. It is far worse than a Militia on yourself effect. That makes this card very weak.

Lion- Didn't Soothsayer win earlier?

Fossa- You have one turn in which to end the game, after that you lose! Ha! but really, this is a reverse Tactician. In exchange for an action and a buy, you get the 5 cards you would get next turn now. A little weaker overall, but that seems fine.

Zebra- A wharf with a +1 coin to your opponents. As much as I usually don't like 6 cost terminals because they are lucky to get with silver openings, I can see the appeal.

Wildebeast- A card only bought with 2 silvers, 1 gold, or virtual $. It can be gained easily, but gainers don't usually like terminal draw. Interesting

Leopard- I like so many of these. This gives an interesting choice, a tad on the weak side (not all cards need to be victims of power creep), but it is funny that in small decks it almost doesn't change the outcome.

Giraffe- Unnecessary shuffling effects on cards is not Dominion.

Okapi- Seems like you can always get Gold-Silver by naming Estate-Copper. A properly manecured deck doesn't really need this because its parts (trashers, villagers) are likely drawn into your hand and a regular drawer would get as much useful stuff.

Hartebeest- weak. Trashing cards from the supply, especially in 4 player, might get silly.

Jackal-Too many moving parts, especially for paper Dominion. A 5 cost version: Each player reveals the top 4 and you discard one, and they place the remaining 3 on top of their deck in the order of their choice. +3 cards. I can see the reasoning for that version, but the simple version might be more printable.

Aardwolf- If you have no Victory cards, it is "Search deck and discards for any card, draw it, and discard them all". This is a faster version of Scheme (with deck cleaning instead of +1 action) unless the Victory card is particularly needed or dual-type. I like this.

Impala- This card makes its own strategy too much. The fun part about Library is discarding the cards yourself or letting your opponent do it.

Eland- I tried to dislike this card, but I failed. It is a terminal, so it skips over $5+ actions, Duchies and Provinces at the cost of skipping Gold. A drawer that shines in the greening stage. In a strong engine, it is usually weaker if the best components cost too much.

Lemur- It feels too much like a Margrave/Ghost ship. Also, it is too strong.

Mandrill- I feel like this is fine, but it isn't terribly interesting.

Oryx- Gimmicky. I rarely get anything special from the bottom.

Bonobo- This often gives +5 cards the first time it is played in a turn. The point seems to be that it protects you from discard attacks later. very strong.

Hyena- An upgraded Mandrill, but I like Mandrill better. The revealing seems unnecessary.

Camel- There was a reason University was a potion cost. The problem is that "Gain a Duchy" is not something that is often allowed from one card. It is hard to handle gaining 5 costs, but this is a valient attempt, since it is best used to pick up a terminal after a village. Oddly enough, its even best-er use is Venture. Its bestest use is to get a load of +Actions then gain this card over and over again, racking up cards in hand in the process.

Duiker - I feel like players will not often set aside cards for this unless there is a discard attack on the board.

Kudu -Only slightly different than Library. The interesting idea is that it lets you aside a type of Victory card if you happen to have +Actions.

Meerkat- Wouldn't there nearly always be a card in the discards since you just discarded one? Feels too similar to smithy.

Baboon- Odd. You keep one +Actions card or treasure card when you buy it. With a Gold, this improves your next hand significantly. The potion topping power is pretty cool as well.

Gorilla- Situational, but I can't find myself disliking its existence. I like that the other cards aren't discarded so I have to reshuffle them into my deck.

Badger- It is just a better courtyard, so it is too good in BM.

Pangolin-  I usually don't like 6 cost terminals because they are lucky to get with silver openings. Goons is acceptable because it demands to be played multiple times.

Waterbuck- It forces the unlucky terminal player to be stuck with an action they couldn't use. That feeling is so bad it squashes the feelings of chaining this with villages.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 08:54:06 pm by One Armed Man »
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2012, 09:19:30 pm »
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First reactions (I didn't submit a card this time - I had an idea but somehow didn't get a submission PM written up, apparently):

Cheetah - too complicated for me.

Quote
Elephant
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
Each other player gains an Action card costing at most $4.

I think I like it. Taking the Council Room idea a bit further. If there are villages on board, opponents are likely to choose to gain Elephant, so this will run out quickly.

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Hippopotamus
$3 - Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand.
--
While this is in play, you cannot buy Treasure cards.

I don't think the restriction is enough to justify the price point.

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Rhinoceros
$3 - Action
+3 Cards
During your clean-up phase, draw only 3 cards.
--
When you gain this, you may place it on top of your deck.

Like some kind of borrowing Smithy. Village + Outpost makes the restriction irrelevant, but that takes work to set up and anyway I'm in favour of making Outpost good.

Lion - what Archetype said.

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Fossa
$5 - Action
+6 Cards
Lose your next turn.

Seems intended as a kind of backwards Tactician. This is a new mechanic, and while it seems well-defined and obvious on the surface, I'm nervous. What happens with KC/TR? With Possession? With Outpost?

Quote
Zebra
$6 - Action-Duration
Until the beginning of your next turn, for all other players, all cards (including in players' hands) cost $1 less.
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+3 Cards

But not less than $0, right? RIGHT?

Quote
Wildebeest
$2* - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
--
This costs $1 more per Treasure card you have in play.

Interesting idea. I'll reserve judgment, though. Seems like the kind of thing that's hard to balance just right.

Quote
Leopard
$5 - Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. The player to your left chooses to discard them or return them to the top of your deck.
+4 Cards

Might be a bit too strong. Not sure.

Giraffe - The shuffling thing seems like an unnecessary complication, and otherwise the idea is pretty vanilla. I'm not impressed.

Quote
Okapi
$5 - Action
Name two cards.  Reveal cards from your deck until you have revealed two cards that you did not name.  Place those two cards into your hand and discard the rest.

Strikes me as clearly too weak for $5. In a village-type engine, you're eventually hoping to draw your deck anyway so the filtering isn't worth that much, and in a Lab-type engine it probably doesn't help enough towards the chances of getting big Treasure draws.

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Hartebeest
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
While this is in play, when you buy a card, if it is a Victory card, trash a copy of the card from the supply. Otherwise, trash two copies of the card from the supply.

This is a new mechanic again and it strikes me as game-destroying. Far too easy to pile out this way. Especially since the effect will stack multiplicatively with Talisman. Someone else pointed out that this won't happen due to the effect being on buy. But still.

Quote
Jackal
$6 - Action-Attack
Each player (including you) reveals the top 4 cards of their deck.  Your opponents discard any card of your choice, and they place the remaining 3 on top of their deck in the order of their choice.  You may discard any number of cards from your own deck.  Place the remaining cards on top of your deck in the order of your choice.
+3 Cards

This is supposed to be something like "you may discard any of the cards you revealed", yes? I think it might still be too strong. You're getting a combination Smithy + sifting + what is probably a fairly powerful attack (I actually like the concept of the attack). Maybe if you also have to discard exactly 1 card, and draw the other 3.

Aardwolf - meant to combo with Nobles/Harem/GH? Just seems tricky overall. I don't like it.

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Impala
$6 - Action
Discard any number of cards, then draw up to 7 cards in hand. You may trash a card from your hand; if you do, +1 Card.

This could be a lot of fun. $6 seems reasonable.

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Eland
$3 - Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal 3 cards costing $4 or less.
Put all revealed cards costing $4 or less into your hand and discard the other revealed cards.

A limited Smithy. Conveniently avoids activating Tunnel despite doing a deck-search. I like the concept. It might actually be too expensive in many situations. OTOH, with sufficient trashing, it becomes virtually guaranteed to draw three Silvers - although if there are good $4s on board, you could end up drawing them dead... interesting.

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Lemur
$4 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
Put one card from your hand on the bottom of your deck.
Each other player draws a card, then puts cards from his hand on the bottom of his deck until he has 3 cards in his hand.

This has got to be too strong. It's closer to Margrave than to Smithy (you almost always have one card in hand that you don't mind sacrificing, after drawing 3). Putting things on the bottom of your deck strikes me as gimmicky, like a desperate attempt to make Pearl Diver good - except Pearl Diver probably won't really counter the attack effectively.

Mandrill - very basic. Probably balanced, though.

Oryx - again with the "bottom of your deck" business. Seems like it's meant as a defense to Sea Hag or something like that, in decks where you can't get an engine going. An optional Courtyard effect is a nice plus as well. This is probably balanced, but I just don't like it.

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Bonobo
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
You may draw up to three additional cards. For each card drawn this way, discard a card at the end of your clean-up phase.

The penalty is limited as it can only stack with itself so far; but then if you're building an engine with Villages with the intent of drawing your deck, is it worthwhile having a card that can reliably draw your deck on even turns while you pass on 0-card odd turns? Another card with obvious parallels to Tactician.

Quote
Hyena
$6 - Action
Reveal the top 7 cards of you deck.  Put 2 of them into your hand and discard the rest.

A godsend in late-game for BM decks. Probably far too weak to be worth considering for anything else. Unless maybe a village and KC are both out and you hit $6 once before $7 and you're trying to get things in motion with your first KC... ?

Quote
Camel
$5 - Action
Gain a card costing up to $5, putting it on top of your deck.
+2 Cards

Crazy synergy with City. I'm also picturing Highway->Border Village->Camel, gaining a Border Village, gaining a Camel.

Quote
Duiker
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. You may set aside up to 3 cards drawn this way, as you draw them. Each other player draws a card for each card you set aside. Discard the set aside cards after you finish drawing.

Some strange sort of hybrid Library/Council Room. But the draw is weaker than Council Room in typical cases, and while the filtering is more general than Library's, it has a count limitation, and incurs the CR's penalty (possibly 3 times). I suspect this is too weak.

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Kudu
$5 - Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. You may nominate a card name, that, as you draw them, may be set aside; discard the set aside cards after you finish drawing.

A much better Library variant than above IMHO. Trading strength of the filtering (all actions vs. one card type) for flexibility.

Meerkat - I don't even know what's going on here, really.

Baboon - kind of an Alchemy variant of Smithy. I like it.

Gorilla - Scout without the +Action. zzzzz. Also, wtf is a random order? Am I supposed to "shuffle" 4 (or 2) cards?

Quote
Badger
$5 - Action
+4 Cards
Put 1 or 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Neat concept. I like it.

Pangolin - Council Room without the opponent draw, or Smithy + coin + buy. $6 seems right. I like cards that have this little bit of flexibility to them.

Quote
Waterbuck
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Put the Action card in your hand and discard the other revealed cards.

Tunnel etc. notwithstanding, this seems actually worse than Moat in a Lab-style engine since you remove one of your Labs from your deck - oh, but you discard the non-actions before that point, which probably is a wash. In a Village-powered engine this becomes stronger than Smithy. In any event, it seems flawed.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 09:33:51 pm by zahlman »
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2012, 10:46:36 pm »
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Man, I had so much trouble coming up with a good terminal action idea, and after seeing these submission, I am surprised how many good ideas there are for such a restrictive category! These are some of the ones I like, by sub-category.

Positive Externalities
It looks like only Elephant, Zebra, Leopard, and Duiker offset benefits to you by giving benefits to your opponents. I like this type of interaction, and of the submitted cards, I like Elephant (as mentioned, this could clog the other players' deck and function as an attack, as well!) and Zebra (gives a Bridge-like bonus to your opponents; King's Court at your own risk!).

Borrow from the Future
I also really like the cards that kind of have a "reverse Tactician" feel -- moving cards from the future to the present -- but I feel like all three would benefit from a +1 Action (even though it violates the terminal draw challenge rules).
Rhinoceros: I really like this idea, but it seems a little weak at $3.
Fossa: I really like this idea, too, but it is worded in an ambiguous way: do I get to resolve Durations (e.g. Fishing Village) next turn but not get to buy? Or do durations wait to resolve until you get a turn? I think I would have liked better: "+6 Cards, +1 Action, Do not draw any cards during your clean-up phase." This way you are taking 5 cards from the future to the present, but again, this would kill the terminal action condition... Maybe I am missing the main idea of the card?
Bonobo: Again, I really like it and the choice aspect, but I wish there could be a +1 Action, too.

$$$
Cheetah, Hippopotamus, and Wildebeest all seem to rely on nifty interactions with Treasures. Cheetah seems to have a lot of moving pieces, but I like the idea. Hippopotamus looks like a nice, cheap, restricted Library (and I think I like this one the best of the Library-style cards). I like Wildebeest a lot, but don't have a good feel for its power. I think it's okay since the only way you can get it on turn two is if you open Nomad Camp, and if you can get it on turn 2 or 3, it means you risk action clash, so the +1 Buy looks like it's needed, but I'm not sure. It certainly would be amazing in engines later in the game. Rinkwork's point about the power of plus buy is well taken, too.

Other Slick Ideas
I really like Baboon's implementation of an exchange rate for potions. I wish it would apply to all cards bought instead of just it!

Okapi, one of my favorite animals, has a neat take on one of my favorite cards. To me, this is the Un-Wishing Well.

I didn't think there would be so many good Hunting Party-style abilities (where you get something specific by hunting through your deck), but of those style cards, I like Aardwolf and Kudu, but as with Wildebeest, don't really know how to think about their power.

Last, but not least, I like Pangolin for its simplicity and its choice. Having more cards at the $6 level would be nice.

[Disclaimer: One of the cards mentioned in this post is mine.]

« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 10:47:58 pm by Polk5440 »
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2012, 12:43:55 am »
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Meerkat- Wouldn't there nearly always be a card in the discards since you just discarded one? Feels too similar to smithy.

No, because although you just discarded a card, you also just pulled a card from the discard to the top of your deck.  If your discard pile was initially empty, it will still be empty after you do those two steps.

On the other hand, if your discard pile had stuff in it, then one of the cards you get to draw subsequently will be one you've cherry-picked out of the discard pile.  So the two possible final effects are (1) +3 cards drawn blind; (2) 1 card swapped out for a card chosen from the discard pile and 2 additional cards drawn blind for a net total of +2 cards with selectivity.

I have this thought out because I had to think through all the different possibilities to decide it was eligible or not.  (It is.)
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iangoth

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2012, 08:53:11 am »
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Quote
Cheetah
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
Discard a card.
Reveal your hand. If you have no Silver in hand, choose one: gain a Gold and a Copper, or gain a Silver.
--
If you have any Gold in play, this card cannot be bought.
If you have any Silver in play, this card costs $6.

This should be too strong, especially as an opener. Discarding a single card out of 7 isn't a big deal most of the time, so basically it's a smithy that gains money. The buy restrictions shouldn't get in the way very often in big money games, so they probably add needless complexity.

Quote
Elephant
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
Each other player gains an Action card costing at most $4.

Should be changed to "Each other player may gain an action card costing at most $4." +4 cards is much too strong for this to become a junking attack, too. When there aren't any cheap actions you'd want more than one or two of, this card is basically strictly better than smithy, and also stronger than council room. When there's a village on the board, you'd probably prefer most other terminal draw cards, so you don't build an engine for your opponent. When there's a village and this is the only terminal draw, I don't really know. Probably a super fast-paced game.

Quote
Hippopotamus
$3 - Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand.
--
While this is in play, you cannot buy Treasure cards.

Probably mainly good for fishing village/hippo style engines, but bad for big money. You probably wouldn't want to buy this often enough.

Quote
Rhinoceros
$3 - Action
+3 Cards
During your clean-up phase, draw only 3 cards.
--
When you gain this, you may place it on top of your deck.

Too weak. Drawing only three cards hurts way, way more than getting militia'd.

Quote
Lion
$5 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player with 0 or 1 curse on his [This Card] mat gains a curse on their [This Card] mat. If they do not gain a curse, they put all of the curses on their [This Card] mat into their discard pile.
---
At the end of the game, return all cards on your [This Card] mat to your deck.

Every three times you play it, it curses you twice. That's more often than torturer, on average. Plus, you don't have to chain it. Plus, it gives you a +buy. This card is probably too good.

Quote
Fossa
$5 - Action
+6 Cards
Lose your next turn.

Looks like a tactician reverse on the face of it, but I suspect it would play very differently. Really, this is only potentially viable if you can use it to draw your deck and you also have a source of +buy available. Of course, in many of those situations, you just use a smithy instead and not give up every other turn. Strictly worse than Bonobo (not that this is necessarily a problem).

Quote
Zebra
$6 - Action-Duration
Until the beginning of your next turn, for all other players, all cards (including in players' hands) cost $1 less.
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+3 Cards

Very strong. I'm tempted to say I like it. Maybe it ought to cost $7--think how often you pay $6 for wharf. Might give too big an advantage to the player who hits $6 first. With +buys, this would create very fast-paced games. In multiplayer games, cards will get stupidly cheap very quickly-- if the three players play two zebras each on their turns, the fourth can buy provinces for $2. Not sure if this would be fun or degenerate.

Quote
Wildebeest
$2* - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
--
This costs $1 more per Treasure card you have in play.

Weak for big money because the buy restriction means you can't realistically pick this up before the first few reshuffles. I imagine it could be ridiculously good with fishing village, since it gives you the non-treasure coins to buy tons of these.

Quote
Leopard
$5 - Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. The player to your left chooses to discard them or return them to the top of your deck.
+4 Cards

The most obvious comparison is envoy. I'd guess this card is stronger on average, so the $5 price point is correct. Probably balanced.

Quote
Giraffe
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card from your hand, then shuffle a card from your hand into your deck.

As others have noted, the shuffling would be a huge pain in a real-life game. Otherwise, this looks a lot like a mini-embassy without the benefit to your opponents. Very strong.

Quote
Okapi
$5 - Action
Name two cards.  Reveal cards from your deck until you have revealed two cards that you did not name.  Place those two cards into your hand and discard the rest.

I think I like it. Should be better in big money than in engines. If all you have in your deck is silver, estates, copper, and two of these, name copper and estates and it'll draw you $4 most of the time. Or you could buy several of these, name okapis, and never draw them dead.

Quote
Hartebeest
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
While this is in play, when you buy a card, if it is a Victory card, trash a copy of the card from the supply. Otherwise, trash two copies of the card from the supply.

Designed to help end the game on piles. In general, that should increase player 1 advantage or advantage to the player who is already ahead. Could get stupid in multiplayer.

Quote
Jackal
$6 - Action-Attack
Each player (including you) reveals the top 4 cards of their deck.  Your opponents discard any card of your choice, and they place the remaining 3 on top of their deck in the order of their choice.  You may discard any number of cards from your own deck.  Place the remaining cards on top of your deck in the order of your choice.
+3 Cards

Too good. The attack could be brutal when played in multiples (especially in multiplayer). You could easily have your turn nuked. The sifting effect is very strong, too.

Quote
Aardwolf
$3 - Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Put the Victory card and one other revealed card of your choice into your hand and discard the rest.
If the first card you reveal is a Victory card, put it into your hand, then +2 Cards.

Should be very weak in a big money game. Most of the time, you'll reveal a few coppers, maybe a silver, then hit an estate. It only gets weaker as you green, too. In an engine, well, it'll be a support card. You probably need to be swimming in +actions to make it viable.

Quote
Impala
$6 - Action
Discard any number of cards, then draw up to 7 cards in hand. You may trash a card from your hand; if you do, +1 Card.

Sort of like a superjack. So resilient to handsize attacks and cursers that you might choose not to buy either, although the pricetag ensures you'll get at least a few hits in before your attack can be countered. Not totally sure this is too good, but it probably swings the balance in favor of big money.

Quote
Eland
$3 - Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal 3 cards costing $4 or less.
Put all revealed cards costing $4 or less into your hand and discard the other revealed cards.

Sifts your high-value vp cards for you, although it doesn't like gold. You could put together a very good engine using this card if the components are cheap. In big money, it might actually be better than smithy. $4 is probably the right cost, but I like it otherwise.

Quote
Lemur
$4 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
Put one card from your hand on the bottom of your deck.
Each other player draws a card, then puts cards from his hand on the bottom of his deck until he has 3 cards in his hand.

Far too good, and too much like ghost ship.

Quote
Mandrill
$4 - Action
Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Put two into your hand and discard the others.

Pretty good but not too exciting.

Quote
Oryx
$5 - Action
Draw 3 cards from the bottom of your deck. You may put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

At first I thought drawing from the bottom of the deck was a pointless gimmick, but then I realized drawing from the bottom lets you topdeck several cards to set up your next hand if you chain these. That actually sounds really cool if you can pull it off. I think I like this.

Quote
Bonobo
$5 - Action
+3 Cards
You may draw up to three additional cards. For each card drawn this way, discard a card at the end of your clean-up phase.

Should be satisfying to play. If you fail to draw what you needed with the first 3 cards, you can try again for a price. As others have noted, this would be strong against handsize attacks. Not stronger than library in that regard, though. In engines, you could use this to draw 6 cards each time, effectively sacrificing your next turn. Bonobo/haven would be a fun and very powerful combo, now that I think of it. This card is strictly better than Fossa (again, not necessarily a problem).

Quote
Hyena
$6 - Action
Reveal the top 7 cards of you deck.  Put 2 of them into your hand and discard the rest.

Probably would work better at $5. I'd almost always rather have an embassy.

Quote
Camel
$5 - Action
Gain a card costing up to $5, putting it on top of your deck.
+2 Cards

Too good. One Armed Man said it pretty well.

Quote
Duiker
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. You may set aside up to 3 cards drawn this way, as you draw them. Each other player draws a card for each card you set aside. Discard the set aside cards after you finish drawing.

Too good for your opponents. Maybe if you changed it to "Each other player draws a card and discards a card for each card you set aside."

Quote
Kudu
$5 - Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. You may nominate a card name, that, as you draw them, may be set aside; discard the set aside cards after you finish drawing.

My favorite of the library variants. Pretty solid.

Quote
Meerkat
$4 - Action
Discard a card.
Choose a card from your discard pile and put it on top of your deck.
If there's no card in your discard pile +4 Cards; otherwise +3 Cards.

Much too good. Topdeck gold, draw it, repeat with the next meerkat.

Quote
Baboon
$5* - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
--
When you buy this card, place it and one other card you have currently in play on top of your deck.
--
When you buy this card, you may pay $3+P instead of $5.

Very strong, I think. The alternate cost is interesting, but it feels like it ought to go with a potion-related set. Not that that's a big deal for fan cards.

Quote
Gorilla
$2 - Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal 4 Victory cards.  Put those Victory cards into your hand and put the other cards back on top in a random order.

I guess it's technically a terminal draw, but in practice it would feel like a "deck improver." Combos pretty well with harem, but it's probably not fantastic otherwise. In real life games, the shuffling the card requires would be a problem.

Quote
Badger
$5 - Action
+4 Cards
Put 1 or 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Super courtyard. Very strong for big money, probably too strong.

Quote
Pangolin
$6 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: +1 Card; or +$1.

Pretty reasonable, I think, but not terribly exciting.

Quote
Waterbuck
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Put the Action card in your hand and discard the other revealed cards.

Weak for big money, but ought to be better than a smithy for a lot of engines. Could be ridiculous with tunnel.
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ChocophileBenj

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #71 on: July 13, 2012, 09:30:15 am »
0

I agree with everybody who says the 4th challenge has really given good ideas of cards (I've submitted for all 4 firsts)
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Chocolate is like victory points in Dominion. Both taste good but they'll hurt you if you eat too much of it instead of something else in your early days.

popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #72 on: July 13, 2012, 10:35:15 am »
0

No one be afraid to comment on the 3rd challenge just because the 4th is out.  I still haven't voted on either and enjoy and value hearing others' thoughts.
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #73 on: July 13, 2012, 05:40:31 pm »
0

Am I the only one who now is expecting challenge 3's card to be a bird?
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 2!
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2012, 01:03:19 pm »
+1

Warning:  These results are incorrect.  See here for the corrected results!

--

The results for the Victory Card contest are in!  As a reminder, these were the submission criteria:

Quote
Design a Victory card.  The card cannot be a dual-type card -- that is, its one and only type must be "Victory."

As I'm running the contest, I didn't submit.  If I had been able to, I probably would have submitted this, which is another card based on the empty supply piles idea that City uses.  But in this case, as with my Curser, the implications are again different:

Pasture
$6 - Victory
Worth 2 VP for each empty supply pile.


You could have some fun with this in games where you can end on a megaturn, emptying multiple piles at once.  Unlike most of my cards, though, this one has yet to see play in a real game.

And there's my moment in the sun.  Back to you all.  For the Victory Card challenge, we have a bit of drama -- a tie for first place!  I thought about how I should resolve the tie -- for example, with a separate run-off election, or by counting again without the approval votes -- until I realized that The Dominion Way would be for both contestants to rejoice in mutual victory.  Therefore, I present to you the two new additions to our fan set:

#1 (tie) - Museum by Captain Frisk with 21 points (Warbler)
$5 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for each set of Copper, Silver, and Gold in your deck.

#1 (tie) - Herald by shark bait with 21 points (Shearwater)
$4 - Victory
2 VP
--
When you buy this, place a card that is in play on top of your deck.


Congratulations to the winners!  With Museum, we have a Treasure-counting Victory card that requires more calculation than simply picking up as many Coppers as you can with extra buys.  And with Herald, we have a green card that counteracts the effects of greening.

The next entries were right behind in the vote totals.  Here are the rest of the results.  Remember that votes for Challenge #4 are due Thursday.


#3 - Canal by Polk5440 with 20 points (Gannet)
$6* - Victory
When the game ends, if the Province or Colony supply pile is empty (if it was available), then this is worth 4 VP. Otherwise, this is worth 2 VP.
--
During your Buy phase, if two supply piles are empty, then this costs $3.

#4 - Patron of the Arts by senseless with 19 points (Pipit)
$4 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for each Masterpiece card in your deck.
--
Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile to the Supply. Cards from that pile cost $1 more and are Masterpiece cards.

#5 - Plantation (2) by qmech with 17 points (Bluebird)
$10 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for every differently costed card in your deck.
--
Rules: In games using this, add Platinum to the Basic cards in the Supply.

#6 - Base Camp by DWetzel with 15 points (Cormorant)
$6 - Victory
1 VP
--
When you buy this, gain 3 VP tokens.

#7 (tie) - District by One Armed Man with 11 points (Petrel)
$5 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for each card you have 5 or more copies of.

#7 (tie) - Woodland by rspeer with 11 points (Oystercatcher)
$6 - Victory
Worth 10 VP, minus 2 VP for every 5 non-Victory cards in your deck (rounded down).
--
When you buy this, you may trash a card from your hand.

#9 (tie) - Borderland by Qvist with 10 points (Yellowlegs)
$7 - Victory
2 VP
--
When you gain this, gain a card costing less than this.

#9 (tie) - Satrapy by Celestial Chameleon with 10 points (Puffin)
$9 - Victory
4 VP
--
When you gain this, gain a Duchy and an Estate.

#9 (tie) - Unnamed 2 by greatexpectations with 10 points (Heron)
$8 - Victory
1 VP
--
During your buy phase, this card costs $2 less per action in play, but not less than $0.
--
When you buy this, you may set it aside. If you do, return it to your deck at the end of the game.

#9 (tie) - Woodlands by iangoth with 10 points (Flycatcher)
$4 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for every three Woodlands tokens you have.
--
In games using this, you may gain a Woodlands token at the end of any turn in which you shuffled your deck.

#13 (tie) - Mountain by Schneau with 9 points (Tanager)
$6 - Victory
2 VP
--
The turn you buy this, only draw 3 cards (instead of 5) in this turn's Clean-up phase. Take an extra turn after this one. This can't cause you to take more than two consecutive turns.

#13 (tie) - Mountain Lake by ChocophileBenj with 9 points (Macaw)
$6 - Victory
2 VP
--
When you gain this, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain 2 Silvers; if you don't, gain 1 Silver. Put the gained Silver(s) on top of your deck.

#13 (tie) - Frontier by Nicrosil with 9 points (Loon)
$4 - Victory
Worth 1 VP per territory token on Frontier's supply pile.
--
Whenever a player buys a Province, put a territory token on Frontier's supply pile.
Whenever a player buys a Frontier, remove a territory token from Frontier's supply pile.

#13 (tie) - Fiefdom (1) by jonts26 with 9 points (Egret)
$3* - Victory
2 VP
--
When you buy Fiefdom (1), pay any amount greater than or equal to its cost. Then, gain a victory card costing at most $2 less than that amount.

#17 (tie) - Fiefdom (2) by Dsell with 8 points (Woodpecker)
$4 - Victory
Worth 5 VP minus 1 for every three treasures in your deck (round up), but not less than 0.
--
When you buy this, you may trash a treasure card from play and from your hand.

#17 (tie) - Sprawl by play2draw with 8 points (Sandpiper)
$2* - Victory
When you gain this card, place a VP token on this card's supply pile.
--
For each VP token on the pile, the cost of this card increases by 1.
--
At the end of the game, this card is worth victory points equal to the number of VP tokens on the pile.

#19 (tie) - Mobile Home by Titandrake with 7 points (Harrier)
$4* - Victory
2 VP
During your Buy phase, this costs whatever you want, as long as it costs at least $4.
--
When you buy this, gain a card costing less than this.
--
(Rules clarification: Mobile Home's cost can change in the middle of the Buy phase. E.g., with $11 and 2 buys, buy Mobile Home for $5 and for $6. When cost reduction like Bridge is out, Mobile Home must still cost at least $4.)

#19 (tie) - Landlord by nopawnsintended with 7 points (Guillemot)
$4 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in your deck (round down).
--
When you gain this, trash a Treasure from the play area.  If you trash a Treasure, gain an Estate.

#21 (tie) - Plantation (1) by Archetype with 6 points (Osprey)
$5 - Victory
Worth 1 VP per Plantation (1) in your deck.
--
Can only be bought if you have at least 1 Action Card in play

#21 (tie) - Tower by NoMoreFun with 6 points (Kingfisher)
$4 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for every 2 cards in the supply pile with the Tower token on it (rounded down).
--
When you gain this, you may move the Tower token to a Kingdom supply pile of your choice.
--
Setup: Place the Tower token on the Tower supply pile.

#23 (tie) - Diked Marsh by Dubdubdubdub with 5 points (Tern)
$3 - Victory
2 VP
--
If you gain this during your action phase:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

#23 (tie) - Gallery by Robz888 with 5 points (Ibis)
$3 - Victory
1 VP
Worth another 1 VP for every 3 tokens on your Gallery mat.
--
Setup: Each player has his own Gallery mat. At the start of a player's Clean-up, he gains a token on his Gallery mat for each unused Buy.

#23 (tie) - Land Prospector by andwilk with 5 points (Bittern)
$4 - Victory
This card is worth 1 VP for each Land Prospector left in the supply at the end of the game.

#26 (tie) - Sewage Lord by zxcvbn2 with 3 points (Spoonbill)
$4 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for every two differently named cards in the trash, rounding down.

#26 (tie) - Scorched Earth by Tejayes with 3 points (Plover)
$5 - Victory
This card is worth 1 VP for every 5*P cards in the trash (round down).
(P = number of players)
--
When you gain this, trash up to 4 cards from your hand.

#26 (tie) - Enchanted Forest by eHalcyon with 3 points (Grebe)
$9* - Victory
Worth 1 VP per Enchanted Forest token you have.
--
This costs $1 less per Enchanted Forest token you have (but not less than $0).
--
When you gain this, gain a Enchanted Forest token.

#26 (tie) - Enclosure by popsofctown with 3 points (Flamingo)
$2 - Victory
Worth 2 VP if you have more Estates than Enclosures.
--
When you buy this, +$1, +1 Buy.

#26 (tie) - Specialist by RobertJ with 3 points (Bunting)
$6 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for each special card in your deck.
--
Setup: Before the first turn each player selects a special card from among the kingdom cards and these are announced simultaneously.

#31 (tie) - Untamed Wilderness by A Drowned Kernel with 2 points (Waxwing)
$6 - Victory
Worth 1 VP for every Province in the supply at the end of the game.

#31 (tie) - Dowry by Fragasnap with 2 points (Nuthatch)
$4 - Victory
2 VP
--
When you gain this, you may gain a Curse. If you do, gain a card costing up to $6 that is not a Victory card.

#31 (tie) - Blacksmith by Adrienaline with 2 points (Lark)
$4 - Victory
2 VP
--
When you gain this card, you may gain a copy of a card costing $4 or less that does not have the name Blacksmith.

#31 (tie) - Sandbox by Powerman with 2 points (Kestrel)
$6 - Victory
8 VP
--
When you gain this, trash all treasures you have in play and gain a Curse.  If you do not gain a Curse, place Sandbox on top of your deck.

#31 (tie) - Cathedral by gman314 with 2 points (Hummingbird)
$6 - Victory
2 VP
--
When you gain this: +1 VP
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, get +VP equal to half its cost in coins, rounded down.

#31 (tie) - Unnamed 1 by Graystripe77 with 2 points (Gadwall)
$6 - Victory
4 VP
--
When you gain this, trash a card from your hand. If you trashed a Curse this way, gain a Gold.

#37 - Botanical Gardens by Saucery with 1 point (Pelican)
$6* - Victory
4 VP
--
When you buy this card, you may pay an additional $3 ($6). If you do, gain another (2) Botanical Gardens.

#38 - Grassland by Grujah with 0 points (Vireo)
$6 - Victory
3 VP
--
When you gain this, gain a Victory card costing less than this.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 09:22:33 am by rinkworks »
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