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Author Topic: thieved to oblivion  (Read 2041 times)

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carstimon

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thieved to oblivion
« on: June 30, 2012, 08:59:48 am »
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Got thieved to death in this game.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/30/game-20120630-055722-6ee2c69a.html
Not sure what I could have done better.  More moat?
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sitnaltax

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Re: thieved to oblivion
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2012, 01:54:55 pm »
+1

Governor is always an important card. On this board, everything else is a distraction.

  • I would open Silver/Silver. You opened MV and then had to sacrifice it to get your first Governor; if that had been a Silver, you would have kept it. I don't like the MV sac for anything but Witch, Mountebank, Wharf, or Goons.
  • Your own Thief was definitely a mistake. You trashed your opponent's coppers, crippled your own buying power, and didn't do any damage.
  • Around Turn 15, you start sacrificing your Silver for Duchies. This hurts you because your opponent is going for Cities, which wouldn't have powered up if you weren't doing this; it also hurts your ability to get Provinces in the future. It's doubly bad because your opponent is able to remodel Thieves into Duchies, so he's gaining the same benefit you are without having to even play Governor.
  • The Thieves looked scary, but until Turn 11 you hadn't lost anything but Copper. Occasionally you'll get bad luck (like losing the two Golds turn 13) but your opponent can't even dream of really hurting you, except that you thin his deck with your own Thief and excessive Governor-trashing.
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ehunt

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Re: thieved to oblivion
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2012, 02:06:42 pm »
+1

I actually like the MV trash here; I'd do the same. I also agree with the MV opening. Once your opponent has committed to thief, he's basically also committed to losing the governor race. I agree that you should not have gotten a thief of your own.

I'd try to buy only mining villages and governors, trying not to use the gain gold option till my deck was at the stage where it could reliably draw and trash the gold on that same turn.
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zahlman

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Re: thieved to oblivion
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2012, 12:29:16 pm »
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I actually like the MV trash here; I'd do the same. I also agree with the MV opening. Once your opponent has committed to thief, he's basically also committed to losing the governor race. I agree that you should not have gotten a thief of your own.

I'd try to buy only mining villages and governors, trying not to use the gain gold option till my deck was at the stage where it could reliably draw and trash the gold on that same turn.

What benefit are you hoping to get out of the MVs, considering Governor is non-terminal?
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eHalcyon

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Re: thieved to oblivion
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2012, 12:39:31 pm »
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I actually like the MV trash here; I'd do the same. I also agree with the MV opening. Once your opponent has committed to thief, he's basically also committed to losing the governor race. I agree that you should not have gotten a thief of your own.

I'd try to buy only mining villages and governors, trying not to use the gain gold option till my deck was at the stage where it could reliably draw and trash the gold on that same turn.

What benefit are you hoping to get out of the MVs, considering Governor is non-terminal?

If you don't need the Silver long term, MV has the benefit of not being thief-able.
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DG

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Re: thieved to oblivion
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2012, 01:01:08 pm »
+1

I think you lost track of how valuable the different cards are when the opponent has the thief.
- Copper is still an obstacle to your deck but the opponent will steal some it from you, so on turn 5 you could have not trashed the copper and used the extra coin to buy a governor.
- Silver isn't a great stepping stone here. You probably won't collect enough to buy provinces, it might get stolen, and your opponent might give you some as gifts anyway. Again when your opponent played a governor you could have trashed estates for villages or wishing wells instead of silver. Villages allow you to play with moats and even an adventurer who might find a niche in this kingdom.
- Gold is still good but your governors can give you more gold as and when you need it. The rest of your deck development should be focused on making a nice engine to that can use the gold effectively, especially when your opponent is likely to trash your estates and copper.
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ehunt

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Re: thieved to oblivion
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2012, 01:34:33 pm »
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What benefit are you hoping to get out of the MVs, considering Governor is non-terminal?
If you don't need the Silver long term, MV has the benefit of not being thief-able.

The silver even hurts long term here. The opponent's Thief opening basically concedes the governor race. I would not buy any money for the rest of the game, and I would only use governor to gain gold when I could reliably draw and trash it that same turn.
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carstimon

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Re: thieved to oblivion
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2012, 02:49:53 pm »
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Not buying money sounds great, but how do I buy governors?  trashing mining villages?  Drawing a lot with Governor? How do I buy mining villages when I'm down to say, 5 copper?

I wish council room was up right now so I could see deck compositions throughout the game.  I'd like to see whether he was super luck turns 11 and 13.

I think you're right about my mistake about turn 5.  Also, I greened early because I thought I could get to half vp before he did his cities.
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DG

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Re: thieved to oblivion
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2012, 03:42:52 pm »
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Quote
How do I buy mining villages when I'm down to say, 5 copper?

Once the estates are removed from your deck, all the actions that provide +cards will draw through and find your remaining terminal treasures. This shows the extra disadvantage of having thief as a zero income terminal.
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