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Author Topic: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.  (Read 5136 times)

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HockeyHippo

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A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« on: July 19, 2011, 12:39:40 pm »
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Here are two games, both against highly ranked players Blooki and mikemike. One of them I play well. The other I start out well, but it does not end well.

Against Blooki:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110712-224145-ec7b7db1.html
His superior deck thinning creates a devastating engine that I'm just not used to seeing, at that time I had not played seaside that much.

Against mikemike:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110705-224447-e6cc7d50.html
Buying Labs instead of Cities early is the deciding factor in this one I believe.

Both pretty interesting games I think. I encourage others to post in the same format, a game you're proud of and a game where you can see a mistake that really blew you out of the water.
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tko

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 01:43:42 pm »
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Against Blooki:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110712-224145-ec7b7db1.html
His superior deck thinning creates a devastating engine that I'm just not used to seeing, at that time I had not played seaside that much.
What amazes me in this game is I look at the kingdom and my first instinct is that Outpost looks bad where you could draw Remake or King's Court dead.  Though in the actual game, Blooki's Outpost turns are amazing.  What I didn't originally notice in the kingdom is how Caravan acts as enabler for Outpost.
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ARTjoMS

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 05:13:40 pm »
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If he is higher ranked than you doesn't mean he knows what he is doing. Quarry-silver opening without +buys or fast trashing? Not that you would want fast KC without trashing or many action cards in your deck (especially duration cards that are probably already in play from last turn). Not that it would be critical to get torturers or upgrades by all means, there are nice 4-costing cards caravans that will improve your deck. Remember that quarry is only $1 better than silver as to buying action cards. Getting your deck trimmed ASAP is however critical this time, and while he wakes up buying late remake you never wake up.

In your second game quarry-silver opening is way more reasonable, not only there are cards that give you +buys, but also cards like grand market, laboratory, city and especially forge, that will let you catch up in deck trimming just in case opponent opens remake silver. I agree that buying cities is a bad move from your opponent and your lucky turn 7 pretty much finishes game. Although there is grand market i wouldn't bother with vault, there are other ways how to get your first grand market. One GM won't do that much for your deck (unless you get lucky like in turn 7), if deck is not trimmed. I would just go for pure laboratories then forge to get your 1st GM.

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HockeyHippo

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 02:46:20 pm »
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If he is higher ranked than you doesn't mean he knows what he is doing. Quarry-silver opening without +buys or fast trashing? Not that you would want fast KC without trashing or many action cards in your deck (especially duration cards that are probably already in play from last turn). Not that it would be critical to get torturers or upgrades by all means, there are nice 4-costing cards caravans that will improve your deck. Remember that quarry is only $1 better than silver as to buying action cards.

With all of the powerful action cards in this Kingdom I think we wanted to ensure we had strong buying power in turns 3-5. I believe that's what prompted the Quarry buy. I would love to replay this game and try out Remake/Silver, see how much the extra thinning paid off in the end.

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Getting your deck trimmed ASAP is however critical this time, and while he wakes up buying late remake you never wake up.

I did actually get a Remake (turn 5) but never went into Upgrades, which I feel, was my biggest mistake.
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Graystripe77

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 06:23:07 pm »
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A game i'm proud of:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110726-144956-173f9db2.html

I had a 5/2 opening, but managed to take an early lead.  This player was relatively new, so it's not particularly impressive, but i enjoyed it.

I'll post a game i'm not proud of soon....
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Blooki

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2011, 12:59:50 am »
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If he is higher ranked than you doesn't mean he knows what he is doing. Quarry-silver opening without +buys or fast trashing? Not that you would want fast KC without trashing or many action cards in your deck (especially duration cards that are probably already in play from last turn). Not that it would be critical to get torturers or upgrades by all means, there are nice 4-costing cards caravans that will improve your deck. Remember that quarry is only $1 better than silver as to buying action cards. Getting your deck trimmed ASAP is however critical this time, and while he wakes up buying late remake you never wake up.

I appreciate the critique and I've been mulling over my choice. Honestly, I can't remember having a strong rationale. I do know that it was between Quarry and Remake. A second Silver was never an option. Seeing as how I only bought two non-Actions during the entire game (two Provinces during turn 13 and the subsequent Outpost turn), I feel it safe to say that Quarry is virtually strictly superior to Silver on a board like this. There just isn't a need for buying treasure and VP if my plan is to Remake/Upgrade my way to Provinces.

So what it comes down to is which opener gets into the mid-game faster. I have no data to back it up, but my thinking was probably a Quarry first approach would more likely get the KCs and Torturers necessary sooner faster than a Remake first one. I admit I could very well be absolutely wrong about this. I believe what really decided the game though was the Outpost.
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Blooki

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2011, 02:41:07 am »
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After much consideration...

A game I'm proud of:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110714-105020-05239e58.html
Bad end of a 7-3 curse split! Saboteur play! I was at -2 points at the start of my 2nd to last turn! Doesn't get much better than this. You can call me "Mr. +2.91 Horn of Plenty Effect with." ;)

A game I'm not proud of:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110707-111715-0cbb6654.html
I totally forgot about VP tokens. :-\
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Agrisios

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2011, 07:26:09 am »
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A game I'm proud of:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110714-105020-05239e58.html
Bad end of a 7-3 curse split! Saboteur play! I was at -2 points at the start of my 2nd to last turn! Doesn't get much better than this. You can call me "Mr. +2.91 Horn of Plenty Effect with." ;)

Yes, this impressive game. I remember it very well. I thought wishing well/apothecary is nice, but too slow against hunted witches. But they were key to get the Horn to 11.
After the curses were gone I relaxed for a moment not realising yet how strong the horn was without + buys. But I think it was still very comfortable for me had I assessed it correctly.

So what to do. The key is turn 13 before my first colony buy I guess.
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110714-105020-05239e58.html#Agrisios-show-turn-13

Deck composition at this point was so overwhelming:

Agrisios:
1 Peddler, 2 King's Court, 4 Hunting Party, 1 Witch, 3 Silver, 1 Steward, 2 Estate, 6 Copper, 3 Curse

Blooki:
1 Peddler, 1 Horn of Plenty, 1 Hunting Party, 1 Witch, 3 Apothecary, 1 Potion, 1 Steward, 3 Wishing Well, 0 Estate, 6 Copper, 7 Curse

I thought chances were good to draw my deck from now on because steward can trash on the way. So I saw no sense in buying Platinum whatsoever without + buys and started with colonies right away. In hindsight it might have been much better to buy the horn here for 12 (!). Its worth 8 already and can go to 11 too. It could have gained Saboteur next turn (much sooner than in the game), then wishing well (more important here than platinum) and platinum to potentially get to 11 too as a threat. Or maybe another horn before the well I don't know. It might have been not essential then.

Gaining a hunting party at turn 17 was a mistake too. Should have been horn (maybe sabo) instead. After first King's Courted Sabo only hit well, potion, steward (steward was important though, but it's not a horn) and the second only one horn I saw it coming, but it was too late.

That sad I really like horn of plenty. It's a great design.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:28:40 am by Agrisios »
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Blooki

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2011, 07:40:29 am »
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Yeah, I hope you don't mind me linking to it without permission here.

If I were in your position, I would've probably have been even more complacent. I doubt I'll witness many comebacks like this one ever again. So many things really had to break right for me to have pulled it off. I could've easily come one short of $11 for my Horns of Plenty, had your Saboteurs knock my unique card count too low, drawn one dead hand to delay me by a turn, etc. causing the door to be definitively shut on my comeback attempt.
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Agrisios

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 07:55:44 am »
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Yeah, I hope you don't mind me linking to it without permission here.

Not at all. I generally think it's not feasible to everytime ask for permition and it's childish to wine about publicly discussed games you lost.

It's games like this we love Dominion for. It's better to be on the winning side of course, but it's still a remarkable game.

So many things really had to break right for me to have pulled it off.

Yes, but think of it: I played badly the second half and deserved the loss. It can't be good to buy that colony 1 turn earlier and than 3 times in row play without that powerful virtual plus buy.

Btw I'm proud of this comeback ;-) although it's not so spectacular and even not so surprising I guess:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110505-110729-2b67741e.html
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Blooki

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 08:05:54 am »
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Btw I'm proud of this comeback ;-) although it's not so spectacular and even not so surprising I guess:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110505-110729-2b67741e.html

How funny! Is this a coincidence or was it intentional? Are you aware that Triceratops is my former AKA?

Now that I'm seeing this gamelog again, the memory is coming back to me. I think this was the game where I learned of the power of Rabble. Previously, I thought it was a pretty weak $5. Very well done. I remember feeling absolutely dead in the water and just hoping to eke out a win by the skin of my teeth. Alas...
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Agrisios

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 08:13:38 am »
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How funny! Is this a coincidence or was it intentional? Are you aware that Triceratops is my former AKA?

Yes, I was aware of it. That's why the Smiley :-)
If you plan for multiple Rabbles you have to be careful with Golem pitfalls like Tribute. You might even not want to play Saboteur after many Rabbles if you plan a big comeback and its more important to keep opponent without power. Although Sabo after first Rabble might be strong.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 08:18:57 am by Agrisios »
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Agrisios

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2011, 09:24:45 am »
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After much consideration...

A game I'm proud of:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110714-105020-05239e58.html
Bad end of a 7-3 curse split! Saboteur play! I was at -2 points at the start of my 2nd to last turn! Doesn't get much better than this. You can call me "Mr. +2.91 Horn of Plenty Effect with." ;)

This game in mind I could yesterday put into practice the following comeback (again no + buys):
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110731-144148-1ebeeb10.html

Starting 5-2 on an ambassador board with Horn of Plenty as only 5 and without 2$ cards I gambled a bit at turn 3 returning 2 coppers instead of 1 and not buying silver (probably a mistake). As a result I had 3 Estates and 2 Coppers at turn 2, 4 and 5 (!) whereas opponent bought first gold at turn 6 having already 2 caravans.

I still wasn't ready to buy gold after turn 12 when he had 3 Golds, 1 Platinum and 1 King's Court. Probably I made some more mistakes and should have bought a second silver earlier (at turn 9 or at least 13, but the start was really frustrating and I wanted the gold right away. After turn 12 however I didn't even have enough copper to do so):

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110731-144148-1ebeeb10.html#dza-show-turn-12
Agrisios: 2 points : 1 Horn of Plenty, 2 Caravan, 2 Ambassador, 1 Silver, 2 Estate, 3 Copper
dza: 3 points : 1 Platinum, 1 King's Court, 3 Gold, 4 Caravan, 1 Ambassador, 2 Silver, 3 Estate, 9 Copper

After turn 17 he had already 4 Colonies and much more buying power. But I had this Horn of Plenty which I used this turn to gain a curse and than it began:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110731-144148-1ebeeb10.html#dza-show-turn-17
Agrisios: 0 points : 2 King's Court, 1 Gold, 1 Horn of Plenty, 5 Caravan, 2 Ambassador, 2 Silver, 1 Wishing Well, 1 Estate, 2 Copper, 1 Curse
dza: 42 points : 4 Colony, 1 Platinum, 1 King's Court, 3 Gold, 5 Caravan, 1 Ambassador, 2 Silver, 2 Estate, 11 Copper

Funnily bureaucrat brought the horns to 11 which probably wasn't really necessary. There are some more things perhaps like using the only King's Court for a duration before reshuffle.

Conclusion: There seems to be a pattern here. You really need at least two Horns in these setups with strong enablers like King's Court to be safe no matter how big your advantage is.
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Blooki

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 07:10:15 pm »
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Cool. Yeah, I find that in enabled Bridge, Goons and Horn of Plenty games the advantage is not taken by the player with a VP lead, but rather the player whose deck can end the game on his/her own terms and does so only after he/she claims the lead. You find these types of games even without power cards at times. I just lost a game a couple of hours ago because I lost the Worker's Village split in a Quarry game with Curses & Menageries quickly depleting. I wasn't playing my best by any means, but I knew the terrible place I was in when I realized that I HAD to buy as many VP as possible and never had another choice. While my opponent could choose to power or choose to green at his leisure because I was no threat to end the game. I ended up losing with 6 Colonies and 8 Provinces still left in the supply.
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chwhite

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 04:38:28 pm »
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I'm proud of this one:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110803-204413-6c52b89e.html

because of how I was able to claw back from some disastrous early-game bad luck.  Turns 3 and 4 went almost as poorly as possible, with all my Estates coming in one hand, and the Baron in another.  Then my opponent got his/her Tournament off first, and grabbed the Followers.  I've overvalued Upgrade in the past, but here my heavy emphasis on Upgrading as fast and as often as I could paid off, especially with Peddlers and Vineyards making an almost treasure-free deck viable.
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Superdad

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2011, 11:06:30 am »
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The game was won, but I would be hesitant drawing any form of strategical conclusion from that game. It was a complete and utter mess on your opponent's part. The only reason you didn't absolutely crush him from the start was your terrible luck in the early turns - otherwise this game would have been a 50-10 smashing (or therabouts).
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Davio

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2011, 06:11:05 am »
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This is one I'm proud off:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201108/20/game-20110820-030330-32505788.html

We have similar decks with some differences: He bought an early Salvager where I bought a Workshop to get some useful $4's and $3's like Great Halls and Throne Rooms. He has been using Salvager to trash some Colonies to rush the game.

His deck had superior buying power and I really had to claw my way to victory here, I'm especially proud of my turn 14. I knew he had enough money to buy 2 Colonies, but not 3. Buying another Colony here would have made it possible for him to end the game, leaving 2 in the Supply. I decide to leave 3 in the Supply and take my shot.

In his turn 15 he made the mistake I was hoping for, he bought the 2 Colonies as I thought, but a Lab instead of a Duchy. He had an unlucky shuffle after that, but I couldn't see that of course. I was able to end the game 1 measly point ahead due to my Great Halls and final Estate, and of course his Lab instead of Duchy.
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HockeyHippo

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2011, 05:17:14 pm »
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Well done, it looked like he had the advantage the entire game.
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Anon79

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Re: A game you're proud of, and a game you're not.
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2011, 04:50:12 am »
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This is one I'm proud off:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201108/20/game-20110820-030330-32505788.html
Ah, I remember this one. Revised link

Contrary to what Davio stated, I *did* have enough in my deck to buy 3 Colonies, if I Throne Room my Salvager! However I failed to draw Salvager upon playing Bazaar on Turn 15, so was faced with a choice of whether to Throne Room my Wharf or not. If I didn't, there is a good chance I fail to draw my Salvager. (Although now that I think about it, perhaps that isn't disastrous at all! So perhaps I went wrong here, who knows.)

Anyhow, after I Throne Room my Wharf (4th Platinum buried thanks to Davio's Spy), I was then faced with a plethora of options: Salvage a Platinum to buy Colony + Province, Salvage a Colony to buy Colony + Colony + Lab, Salvage a Colony to buy Colony + Colony + Duchy, Salvage a Colony to buy Colony + Province + Province, Salvage nothing to buy Province + Province, Salvage nothing to buy Colony + Duchy, ...... Too many choices, and I couldn't analyse them perfectly since I'd lost track of the exact composition of Davio's deck and didn't know how likely it is for him to hit $22. So I punted with Colony + Colony + Lab, which turned out badly for me.

Congrats Davio, well played. It never occurred to me that Workshop could be viable on this board until you demonstrated it.
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