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Author Topic: With my Dominion Time Machine...  (Read 99965 times)

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Elestan

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #100 on: November 18, 2014, 07:48:29 am »
0

imagine a 4p game with Saboteurs all around, that's not likely to be a fun game.
I've been in some of those; it can be annoying, but as usual, it depends on the board.  If there are lots of gainers, or the ability to silver-flood, you might not notice much.  With TR/KC, it can be intolerable.

But it's a good point; there are a number of attack cards that become dramatically more powerful/painful with more players:  Gainers (Thief, Noble Brigand, and Jester) gain more cards, and Pirate Ship gains coins more reliably.  Trash attacks do become more crippling when you get hit by more than one per turn.  Junking attacks become much more painful and swingy; since there are more Curses in the supply, anyone who takes more than their share can become hopelessly pinned.  If your Moats collide in the early stages of a multiplayer Familiar game, it's generally fatal.

Some off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts on how to mitigate this effect:
Thief, Noble Brigand, Jester:  Limit gain to 1 card.
Pirate Ship: Require hitting treasure on at least half of opponents (round up) to gain a coin.
Junkers:  Reveal two junk cards to defend against it.  Or (big change) add a rule that allows someone to skip their turn to trash up to X curses from their hand (determine X by playtesting).
Trashers: Not sure what to do here...you need some kind of testable state to tell if someone's already been hit, or is already so trashed that they shouldn't be beat down further.  Have them reveal their hand to show no card that costs more than X?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 11:06:31 am by Elestan »
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Awaclus

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #101 on: November 18, 2014, 08:10:26 am »
+2

Some off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts on how to mitigate this effect:

My thoughts on the same subject: play 2 player games.
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Asper

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #102 on: November 18, 2014, 08:25:35 am »
+7

Some off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts on how to mitigate this effect:

My thoughts on the same subject: play 2 player games.

If i want to play a 2 player game, i play chess. Boo all you want, i consider 3 player Dominion vastly more interesting and fun.
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Awaclus

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #103 on: November 18, 2014, 08:30:05 am »
+2

Boo all you want

Boo! Boo!



Boo!


Ok, I'm done.
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AdamH

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #104 on: November 18, 2014, 12:04:33 pm »
+2

I can tell you where it is: In Adam's gaming closet.

Funny story, the new set stuff isn't in my gaming closet :P

With my time machine, I'd hold jsh and AdamH hostage until they told me the whereabouts of the prophesied 9th expansion.

Or you could just go to the Chicago(?) meetup where the expansion was playtested. :P

According to them, most of the cards tested there have either been cut or changed anyway.  :P

I suppose you could also go back and time and start streaming a lot of Dominion games such that you would be one of the chosen to playtest on isotropic.  That's a lot of work though.

Alternative plan: go back in time and steal AdamH's identity shortly after he is chosen.

I wasn't chosen because I'm a streamer. I was chosen because I placed well in GokoDom III and I said I was going to the Chicago meetup and bringing a set of Dominion (meaning that I play IRL quite a bit, which I do).

I've done quite a bit of playtesting with my IRL group, who know everything about the new set as it stands now and also have access to iso. There was even one member of the forums who travelled to Cincinnati on business regularly for a while and would meet up with us for game nights sometimes -- he knows quite a bit about the set.

If you really want to know what's in the new set, well, it's a little late for that now: I'm not looking for more people to play with at this moment; but going back in time and stealing my identity probably wouldn't have been as productive as, you know, hanging out and playtesting stuff with me.
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enfynet

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2014, 06:25:32 pm »
+3

I feel like you just told me to drive to Cincinnati.
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eHalcyon

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2014, 08:50:25 pm »
+4

I can tell you where it is: In Adam's gaming closet.

Funny story, the new set stuff isn't in my gaming closet :P

With my time machine, I'd hold jsh and AdamH hostage until they told me the whereabouts of the prophesied 9th expansion.

Or you could just go to the Chicago(?) meetup where the expansion was playtested. :P

According to them, most of the cards tested there have either been cut or changed anyway.  :P

I suppose you could also go back and time and start streaming a lot of Dominion games such that you would be one of the chosen to playtest on isotropic.  That's a lot of work though.

Alternative plan: go back in time and steal AdamH's identity shortly after he is chosen.

I wasn't chosen because I'm a streamer. I was chosen because I placed well in GokoDom III and I said I was going to the Chicago meetup and bringing a set of Dominion (meaning that I play IRL quite a bit, which I do).

I've done quite a bit of playtesting with my IRL group, who know everything about the new set as it stands now and also have access to iso. There was even one member of the forums who travelled to Cincinnati on business regularly for a while and would meet up with us for game nights sometimes -- he knows quite a bit about the set.

If you really want to know what's in the new set, well, it's a little late for that now: I'm not looking for more people to play with at this moment; but going back in time and stealing my identity probably wouldn't have been as productive as, you know, hanging out and playtesting stuff with me.

That's exactly what you'd say if you don't want your identity stolen by a time traveller.
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Kirian

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #107 on: November 19, 2014, 08:39:01 am »
+6

I can tell you where it is: In Adam's gaming closet.

Funny story, the new set stuff isn't in my gaming closet :P

With my time machine, I'd hold jsh and AdamH hostage until they told me the whereabouts of the prophesied 9th expansion.

Or you could just go to the Chicago(?) meetup where the expansion was playtested. :P

According to them, most of the cards tested there have either been cut or changed anyway.  :P

I suppose you could also go back and time and start streaming a lot of Dominion games such that you would be one of the chosen to playtest on isotropic.  That's a lot of work though.

Alternative plan: go back in time and steal AdamH's identity shortly after he is chosen.

I wasn't chosen because I'm a streamer. I was chosen because I placed well in GokoDom III and I said I was going to the Chicago meetup and bringing a set of Dominion (meaning that I play IRL quite a bit, which I do).

I've done quite a bit of playtesting with my IRL group, who know everything about the new set as it stands now and also have access to iso. There was even one member of the forums who travelled to Cincinnati on business regularly for a while and would meet up with us for game nights sometimes -- he knows quite a bit about the set.

If you really want to know what's in the new set, well, it's a little late for that now: I'm not looking for more people to play with at this moment; but going back in time and stealing my identity probably wouldn't have been as productive as, you know, hanging out and playtesting stuff with me.

That's exactly what you'd say if you don't want your identity stolen by a time traveller.

Sure, but it's also what he would say if he had already had his identity stolen by a time traveler.

I think we all now know why Ozle disappeared.
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DStu

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #108 on: November 19, 2014, 11:28:30 am »
0

You could also just travel to the fuiure...

... Where we are going we don't need stolen identitied.

Edit oh, got ninjad in the memes thread, never minde...
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 11:37:52 am by DStu »
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Asper

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #109 on: November 26, 2014, 09:20:38 pm »
0

The Soothsayer thing I don't really get, Soothsayer's one of the weaker cursers as is in my opinion, I think the added complexity is fine to keep it from being too weak.
As an experienced player, it's easy to see the benefit of a card being at a slightly better power level, and easy to see the benefit of a card being slightly more interesting. It's hard to see the benefit of a card being slightly simpler. Being simpler is just drastically more valuable to the game though. Dominion is played by normal people.

This case is particularly crazy and well I struggle not to discuss strategy. The extra text wasn't possibly worth it, that's how I see it.

I know this is a very late reply, and allthough i understand you looking for simplicity, i am not sure leaving out the "if he did" really would improve Soothsayer by that much to make it worth regretting stuff (assuming you regret doing it the way you did).

When blocking an attack by Moat or Lighthouse, it's clear (or at least pretty intuitive) that i don't have to gain a Curse. But what about the drawing? That doesn't seem like an attack. Moat says "unaffected by the attack", not "by the attack card". so does this mean i can draw a card? Council Room lets me draw one and there it isn't an attack. By adding "if he did" the point becomes moot, and i would argue it avoids confusion for new players who don't have that firm a grasp on what "attack" type means.

In a way, Minion and Margrave have that issue, but the way the attack works makes it more plausible. Still, the reason why i remembered this topic was that i recently read the comment of someone who thought he could reveal a Moat after drawing it through Margrave, so maybe what i am saying is not that absurd.
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Donald X.

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #110 on: November 26, 2014, 10:34:20 pm »
0

When blocking an attack by Moat or Lighthouse, it's clear (or at least pretty intuitive) that i don't have to gain a Curse. But what about the drawing? That doesn't seem like an attack. Moat says "unaffected by the attack", not "by the attack card". so does this mean i can draw a card? Council Room lets me draw one and there it isn't an attack. By adding "if he did" the point becomes moot, and i would argue it avoids confusion for new players who don't have that firm a grasp on what "attack" type means.
Well the fix would be for Moat to say "Attack card." "Card" is supposed to be implicit; there is no such thing as an Attack that is not an Attack card. But it could be explicit.
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LastFootnote

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #111 on: November 26, 2014, 10:40:53 pm »
+6

When blocking an attack by Moat or Lighthouse, it's clear (or at least pretty intuitive) that i don't have to gain a Curse. But what about the drawing? That doesn't seem like an attack. Moat says "unaffected by the attack", not "by the attack card". so does this mean i can draw a card? Council Room lets me draw one and there it isn't an attack. By adding "if he did" the point becomes moot, and i would argue it avoids confusion for new players who don't have that firm a grasp on what "attack" type means.
Well the fix would be for Moat to say "Attack card." "Card" is supposed to be implicit; there is no such thing as an Attack that is not an Attack card. But it could be explicit.

Whoa, you do have a Dominion time machine! You went back and made that fix already!

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Donald X.

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #112 on: November 26, 2014, 11:14:46 pm »
+10

Whoa, you do have a Dominion time machine! You went back and made that fix already!
"If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack"

"... card."
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LastFootnote

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #113 on: November 27, 2014, 12:39:44 am »
0

Whoa, you do have a Dominion time machine! You went back and made that fix already!
"If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack"

"... card."

Ah. I saw the first "card" and considered it sufficient.
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Donald X.

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #114 on: November 27, 2014, 01:59:02 am »
0

Ah. I saw the first "card" and considered it sufficient.
I too thought that was sufficient. But, perhaps not.
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Asper

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #115 on: November 27, 2014, 09:13:50 am »
0

Ah, i remembered it as "unaffected by the attack", not "by that attack". Makes it harder to get it wrong.
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Davio

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #116 on: December 08, 2014, 05:02:44 am »
0

So we might make an attack card which says:

Attack part: Each other player gains a Curse
Non-attack part: Each other player may gain a Silver

Would have been cool to be able to make cards with an attack and non-attack interaction part.
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GendoIkari

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #117 on: December 08, 2014, 11:57:27 am »
0

So we might make an attack card which says:

Attack part: Each other player gains a Curse
Non-attack part: Each other player may gain a Silver

Would have been cool to be able to make cards with an attack and non-attack interaction part.

Minion, Soothsayer, and Margrave all do this.
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LastFootnote

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #118 on: December 08, 2014, 12:15:42 pm »
0

So we might make an attack card which says:

Attack part: Each other player gains a Curse
Non-attack part: Each other player may gain a Silver

Would have been cool to be able to make cards with an attack and non-attack interaction part.

Minion, Soothsayer, and Margrave all do this.

I think he means such that you get the good part even if you Moat.
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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #119 on: December 08, 2014, 02:41:46 pm »
0

So we might make an attack card which says:

Attack part: Each other player gains a Curse
Non-attack part: Each other player may gain a Silver

Would have been cool to be able to make cards with an attack and non-attack interaction part.

Minion, Soothsayer, and Margrave all do this.

I think he means such that you get the good part even if you Moat.

I think it's more interesting if you can't.  With Soothsayer, it's actually a real decision whether or not to reveal Moat.
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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #120 on: December 09, 2014, 02:43:49 am »
0

So we might make an attack card which says:

Attack part: Each other player gains a Curse
Non-attack part: Each other player may gain a Silver

Would have been cool to be able to make cards with an attack and non-attack interaction part.

Minion, Soothsayer, and Margrave all do this.

I think he means such that you get the good part even if you Moat.
That's what I meant.

Reveal Moat to block the attack part, but still get the non-attack part. :)
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werothegreat

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #121 on: December 09, 2014, 08:31:55 am »
0

So we might make an attack card which says:

Attack part: Each other player gains a Curse
Non-attack part: Each other player may gain a Silver

Would have been cool to be able to make cards with an attack and non-attack interaction part.

Minion, Soothsayer, and Margrave all do this.

I think he means such that you get the good part even if you Moat.
That's what I meant.

Reveal Moat to block the attack part, but still get the non-attack part. :)

I know.  That would be stupid.
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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #122 on: December 09, 2014, 06:21:19 pm »
+2

With my Dominion Time Machine, I'd go into the future and play with the 2015 expansion.
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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #123 on: December 20, 2014, 08:43:56 pm »
0

Duchess seems like an obvious fix to me. I'd make it so that you couldn't buy it, but you could gain one when you bought a Duchy. I'd make it just +$2 and +1 Action. It encourages 3 Pile endings to go for Duchies, since buying Duchies is faster. It just seems like an interesting strategy to go for in general, I dunno.
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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #124 on: December 20, 2014, 09:09:45 pm »
+1

Duchess seems like an obvious fix to me. I'd make it so that you couldn't buy it, but you could gain one when you bought a Duchy. I'd make it just +$2 and +1 Action. It encourages 3 Pile endings to go for Duchies, since buying Duchies is faster. It just seems like an interesting strategy to go for in general, I dunno.


What's wrong with Duchess? They can't all be the best card ever.
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